Brace yourself: NEW MAXWELL CARDS INCOMING!

Yeah I dont think undervolting is gonna happen. Nvidia give guidelines about which voltage the cores should run at. That is based on tons of testing in their own facility with god knows equipment.
Although I like the idea of undervolting the 980M, I would imagine there would be too much at risk unless they do their own testing which I imagine would take a lot of work.

Then there is the problem of silicon quality. Just because GPU #991 works perfectly with less volt than stock 980M, GPU #332 might have issues on the same test because it didnt do well enough to go lower than Nvidia`s specs. And what if this voltage works perfectly on Crysis 3, but fails under other workloads like GPGPU?

Meh, better to just use whatever specs Nvidia deliver and stick with that. Atleast the OEMs have someone to blame if the chips didnt work like they should.
Not stopping us from undervolting though

 

Atleast they are not denying it. Rather encouraging to keep checking

Difference between GTX 880M Kepler and GTX 980M Maxwell? - Alienware Forum - Alienware Club - Dell Community

 

yeah agree completely it is unlikely to occur, though there have been some factory overclocked Laptops before, so I don't think its impossible. And yeah you would need the testing hence the added cost. I only think it would be worth it for the presently really hot running ultra thin laptops.

 

MSI GS series and especially Aorus X7 would greatly benefit from downvolting the GPU as well as the CPU for sure
I`m sure if it was easily done and without risks, they would already have done it

 

Don't ASUS laptops get fairly hot? I always hear extremes about them (either good or bad), but most people I've seen on this forum dislike them.

 

Not the G-series. One of the best, if not the best, cooling systems out there.
Here is the G750 with GTX 880M. CPU max out at 72C and GPU at 77C. Pretty good results considering its the 880M.
Review Asus G750JZ-T4023H Notebook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

They make a lot of cheap crappy notebooks, but they just feature GT GPUs anyway.

 

The G750s have amazing cooling, and it's also amazingly quiet under load.

 

I wanna see one of those 880Ms in a clevo or something... the 4GB 880Ms might work just fine heat-wise. Does anybody really know? I've seen what the cooling looks like on the inside of them and they don't look like they surpass the AW18

 

You mean here?: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...eview-sager-np8268-clevo-p150sm.html#gpubench
and here?: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...ger-np9377-clevo-p377sm-review-htwingnut.html

 

Looks like GTX 980 won't be as fast as 780 Ti (as expected by many of us), and the $500 price makes sense. OverclockersUK: reference GeForce GTX 980/970 with 4GB, 8GB models also planned | VideoCardz.com

As for the 8GB VRAM on the 980M of course it will affect temperatures and power consumption. I don't remember how many extra watts 4GB would use but I will try to find it for you guys.

 

Those are 8GB 880Ms. The ASUS models sell with 4GB 880Ms. I wanted to know if the 4GB 880M models didn't have the defect that the 8GB models did, but I know of nobody who's used a 4GB 880M in a clevo/AW/etc and checked the temps. That's what I had meant.

 

Oops, me so sorry.

 

It's fine sir wingnut. Everyone mis-reads things once in a while XD.

 

they would greatly benefit from a good cooling system, which they don't have.

 

As you say, it's YOUR guesswork. Seems like there are a lot of unknown variables, and if it was that easy & cost effective to do, then I would think it would already be being done.

 

GS series absolutely would, but the AORUS with dual fan is as good as you get I think but the thin design goes against it

 

Yeah the Aorus has a decent cooling system but just can't keep up with 2x 860m Kepler GPUs + the CPU. The only thin laptop that has really done a great job on cooling so far though is the Razer Blade 14. I have only heard good things about its temps.

MSI thin notebooks are the worst though you can get burns from them and they don't have the SLI excuse.
Also the Asus nx500; seriously only rear vents in a narrow opening that is redirected up the screen. AND the intake is BETWEEN the 2 exhausts OMG FAIL.

Hopefully the Maxwell cards help alot on that end though. And hoping that earlier post of Cloudfire's on the drivers which said something about 860m support means they are adding SLI functionality for maxwell.

I think most of these thin laptops are trying for too much though they don't need to hit 17 or 20mm for me I can live with 25 or 30mm. I would prefer not to have a 60mm thick brick though.

 

not it isn't

more/larger heatpipes

connected heatpipes.

the fact that you have 2 fans doesn't make your cooling good. or you are saying to me that apple cooling is good?

what you said is mutually exclusive.

 

Your point is valid, but look at it another way if the Aorus was running 2x 860m Maxwell GPU (can't because no maxwell SLI support yet), then would it be cool enough.

Point being it has a fairly good cooling system it cools 2 x 860m kepler SLI as well as most similarly sized laptops cool 1x 860m kepler.

Problem is the physics of removing that much heat, that fast, from that small of an area is rather difficult.

The cooling system on it is at least fairly close to as good as it can get. For further heat reduction they need to reduce heat generation. Luckily based on the 850m, 860m maxwell and the rumors on the 970-980m these cards should provide an at least partial solution. Question is will it be enough.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
My distinction on quality of cooling system is more clear when you look at laptops like the Asus nx500 (840m) in which heat generation is not the problem. It just has one of the worst designed cooling systems ever.

MSI GS60, does have a problem with heat generation though not as bad as the Aorus x7. But its cooling system is worse, so even with less heat generated, it ends up hotter.

 

Sorry but you can't call a cooling system good if it can't cool the parts it was designed to cool. I don't care how much air it moves, how the pipes are designed, single fan or dual or even triple or if the heatsink is flat. If a company designed a product to be thin and hot, their cooling system is terrible. You can't blame the parts except in limited cases like the 880M. A cooling system is only effective if it does its job, which is cooling. Period.

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Ok we are getting into grammatical precision. Lets just agree Aorus x7 cooling system good or bad is insufficient for the dual kepler GPUs, and hope the Maxwell live up to the hype and make for a generation of cool running laptops.

 

You guys are arguing cooling solutions, when you should be focused on the pure good or bad engineering of the laptops themselves. The efficiency of a cooling design doesn't matter, when you have first decided to engineer a chassis in which the design's merits are rendered moot.

They built a prototype, found out it was too thin, but decided to move on into production models anyway. It's there that you find the foolishness.

 

I still remember the time Meaker said he and the M14x had an agreement where neither acknowledged the other's existence.

 

I don't recall alienware being able to design a 14" notebook.

I don't think such a thing exists. Its bound to be proven if the 13" version actually exists as well. I'm not confident

 

14" in name and screen size only. :laugh:

 

And that's the kind of thinking that leads to nVidia releasing a throttling part. You can't have it cool, powerful AND thin and light without sacrificing something.

Give me a damn 20" DTR with liquid cooling, a 4.5GHz CPU, and two cards as powerful as a 780 Ti. I'm tired of this "let's sacrifice performance because we are trying to make gaming machine the size of Mac Books," give me a big honking chunk of raw power that makes jaws drop and sets new records for mobile performance.

NVidia and Intel are trying to make us okay with machines that have lackluster performance in the name of efficiency and I won't be sucked in.

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Let's not forget what the highly acclaimed Razer Blade does to achieve this... no ODD or HDD bays. 1 mSATA slot. Integrated lowest-end i7 and midrange GPU. Sure, fit and finish that thing all you want; it's expensive as hell and is in no WAY meant to be someone's primary machine.

 

Lol when I saw what they call "cooling" in the Razer... Yeah no.

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Holy hell you sure you weren't possessed by Mr. Fox when you typed this?

 

Maybe I'm just getting a little bit more annoyed about getting shafted by nVidia (and to a lesser extent Intel since Haswell is a dud compared to Sandy and Ivy but a huge upgrade from the Kentsfield desktop, Penryn laptop, and dual core i5 Sandy laptop I'm coming from) as time goes on.

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I have to admit 880m is a little underwhelming especially when switching back to my desktop. I'm hoping by the time 1080 or 1180 (I know they won't be called this) is released we will see some huge performance gains that will make an upgrade worthwhile

 

If it makes you feel better from 2005 to 2011 I used an AMD Turion ML-30 single core laptop. Yes an AMD single core in 2011 rofl. Laptop took 10 minutes to boot and Firefox took 3 minutes to load, but somehow I got through undergrad on this laptop. And it still works to this day.

Haswell is inconsistent unfortunately and the heat certainly doesn't help.

 

If I had the room for a desk, I would have already bought a nice monitor and replaced my H100i and 4770k and the Sager would be up for sale. The fact is, I don't have the space.



That's my armchair which is leaning right against the edge of my futon which is permanently in the couch position... As you can see, there is literally no space.

I would have done all my browsing from my phone. Or I would have run a light Linux distribution on it.

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well if you ever feel like rolling the dice again I have a 4790K to sell you

phone browsing wasn't an option because data plans are outrageously expensive in Canada. Didn't have the time or will to learn/play with Linux distro, plus you just can't fix a CPU that's only slightly better than a Pentium III 1.4GHz LOL (according to Passmark)

I didn't upgrade because somehow all the games I played in college ran fine on such underpowered hardware (Quake 3, UT2000/2003/2004, CS Source, TFC), and I lacked money.

 

@Ethrem well I can see from that picture you have tons of space, you are using hardly any of the ceiling so far so I suggest a hanging desktop. I'll call the concept cloud computing it will be the next thing.

Joking aside ouch N=1 thats far worse than my present crappy laptop. Been using an Acer Aspire 5560 (AMD A6-4300m APU). It was cheap and um cheap 4 years ago. Now its not only cheap but dying though and I really can afford a good one this time, be interesting to see how much better I am at FPS games when they run at over 10-15 fps on min settings.

 

4790k is what I would be considering. ASUS rolled out a Z87 update to support that chip before it even launched. It literally dropped like two or three weeks after I built my machine. I'm just debating whether or not it's worth it. I've got it at 4.2GHz and its plenty fast when you compare it to my 4940MX @ 3.6GHz

As for Linux... You'd be amazed what it runs well on man. When you have a fine tuned OS and kernel, even the oldest machines run very well.

Lol yeah the ceilings are huge in here. I suppose I could shift things around as well. That corner could house a desk but ugh, my claustrophobia...

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Is that Futon pushed as far back as it goes? If yes then yeah the room does seem narrow.

4790K is already clocked at 4.4GHz single core and 4GHz on all cores so you could hardly do worse. Alternatively if you want to save some (actually a lot) of money, buy Intel's overclocking warranty and tell them you're not happy with the chip and you want to trade it in. From what I've read apparently that's good enough for Intel to give you a second chip. Failing that, I'm sure an unintentional suicide bench run will qualify for a replacement.

I already bought a plan for 4930K even though I haven't even received the chip yet lmao. But yeah if the chip I receive doesn't do what I want it to do at reasonable volts...

 

Yeah its pushed back as far as it goes.

The 4770k will do 4.4GHz all four cores @ 1.3v but it gets damn hot when it gets pushed. I couldn't get 4.6GHz into Windows clear up to 1.5v

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You'll never match desktop performance unless you're looking at 3-4 year old tech. That will always be the case. It may get to the point where a higher end laptop GPU will be able to manage 4K res just fine, that anything extra isn't all that necessary, kind of how a mid-range 860m/870m can manage 1080p with mostly high/ultra settings now at 60FPS+ for most games.

Although you do bring up an interesting point on the naming scheme after 900m series. Perhaps something like AMD does, call it an N180m or something.

 

SLI 780M tweaked to 1ghz/1500 could probably deal with 4k in a reasonable manner lol.

 

My overclocked 780m does dark souls 2(no AA/lowered some settings) at like 30ish fps at 4k res, and dark souls 2 has REALLY low spec requirements to begin with.

No way SLI can do 4k at a consistent 50-60fps on any post 2012 game, and I don't think laptops will do 4k single GPU for at least 4 years, tho 1440p is probably fine with the 980m(assuming +30% vs 880m) if that resolution actually gets used for laptops.

 

Dark Souls 2, while exceedingly easy to run at 1080p, is far more difficult to run at 4K XD. I will say though that with SMAA off and bokeh Depth of Field off, 950/6000 780M SLI can run Dark Souls 2 at 4k just fine, all other graphics maxed. I rarely dropped below 60fps; usually only when resting at a bonfire (the light effects took quite a toll).

That being said, most post 2012 games can be run at 4k with a single 780M. The DEMANDING or GOOD-LOOKING games, however, cannot be. Most people seem to forget that to a user who is only going to play LoL/DoTA 2/Minecraft, 4K res is a very very viable option. If you like Battlefield, Titanfall, GTA, Watch Dogs, Wolfenstein, etc? You're going to run into a problem or two. That being said, I personally say that 4K is not feasible right now for a gamer with a wide library (I do not care how cheap the monitors get). We do not have 120Hz there, we do not have the capability to run certain games at good enough framerates if they need above 60fps (like how CoD needs 125 to run optimally, or CS:GO on a 128-tick server needs to be running at at LEAST 128 fps constant to update fast enough and thus benefit from the server) and we do not have the ability to run the prettier games above 1080p with good framerates at high resolutions. And no, I do not count a 48+ lane PCI/e board with a hexacore intel CPU or above using 3-4 Titan Black cards as being capable, because it's just too much to pay now to invest in "mostly" higher settings. And what if you dare run into a game that doesn't use SLI or CrossFireX? If you have to turn down settings for sharpness because your cards is a bit weak, I understand. If you BUY the monitor that obsoletes your cards knowing that there's no good reason to do so... well then. Can't feel bad for ya really.

 

Got to agree on the non 120hz 4k screens I wouldn't even be that upset if a company hit some random number like 78 and said sorry best we can do hopefully 120 next year. The ones maxing at 30hz out there are the ones that truly bug me though at least a couple manage 60hz.

Right now though I really think the resolution they should be trying for on up to 17" laptops is WQHD (2560/1440) thats 170ppi on a 17.3" screen or 188ppi on a 15.6" screen. And even a single 980m will hopefully be able to manage >30 fps on maxed settings on near any game, 970m SLI or 980m SLI hopefully will be able to go over 60-90 fps without even needing to turn down settings.

On the other hand if a company comes out with a 20.6" narrow bezel laptop >60hz 4k screen 980m SLI then I might go for that. Once you get to 20.6" at laptop viewing ranges 4k starts to have a huge advantage over WQHD (142 ppi) in resolution not that 142ppi is bad, but going to 213ppi with 4k would be a very significant difference. And from everything I hear you can drop AA by x4 without losing quality on 4k and can skip a couple other settings normally used to make resolution appear higher than it is. That takes a bit more effort on customizing game settings but if 980m really is 20-40% faster than 880m, then a 980m SLI really might be enough to push 45-60+ fps on even the more demanding titles like BF4.

 

I would go a little different. I don't think a 20.6" laptop would make much sense. I see 17.3" as fine and 18.4" as about the highest I would consider. Anything really above that and you kind of go away from the "laptop" thing of being able to just throw it in a backpack and walk away, ya know?

 

I have no idea about Apple notebooks, but the Aorus X7 have 3 heatpipes going to one fan where 2 of them goes over both the CPU and GPU #1. The third goes over the GPU. On the other side you have two thicker heatpipes, 1 going over GPU and CPU and the other one over the GPU.

I think the problem is how effective the thin fans are to remove heat rather than the heatpipes. And the thickness of the notebook. I think they should make it a little thicker.

 

A narrow bezel 20.6" laptop would be from 16-25mm wider than an alienware 18. It could actually be slightly less in depth and could be thinner (not saying it should be THIN, but 1.5 inch really is probably enough).

Yes I agree it is not portable for people taking their laptop to classes or walking around town with it, but then neither is an Alienware 18, or MSI GT70, or Asus G750, and it would still fit in most of the few bags that can presently fit an alienware 18 or Asus g750. It would tempt me because I move to 3 different locations throughout most years, but essentially otherwise use it as a desktop.

For a truly portable gaming laptop I would wish for something about 6mm wider than the MSI GS60 but 25-30mm thick and sporting a 17.3" narrow bezel screen. They should be able to get the heat down with a slightly thicker case for bigger fans, and the cooler running maxwell GPUs, and the size would still be small enough to be truly portable in my mind.

 

MSI should make a thicker GS60. We dont need a gaming laptop that thin!!!!

 

If you got rid of that dumb bezel around the AW 18's screen, the screen size could be easily be more than 19". They could pretty easily make an Alienware 19, if they wanted. It wouldn't take too much redesign to do so. I would actually like to see them take the AW 18, improve it in every way, get rid of unnecessary things, and then transform it into the AW 19. Perhaps give it the ability to support desktop CPU's and 2600MHz memory with an X99 chipset of some sort. The possibilities are endless with the AW 18 platform, but they probably won't do it.

 

One thing about Alienware 18 that p*ss me off is that the price have fallen greatly over the last year I think I will sell this notebook with loss this time. Even with the big discounts I got on mine when I bought it.
That didnt happen with MSI nor Asus.

It makes you think about how overpriced these machines are the first year or so

 

U sell ur used laptops for the price u got them? Please elaborate that! :hi2: