Dota 2 Discussion thread

Wow, that's such a troll DK build. ^

 

Hime you beast you

 

Haha I knew we were gonna lose, so I was like no more Assault Cuirass, but man with 3x Hyperstone, insane attack speed.

 

That's similar to Baka's burn everything to the ground Huskar build ._.

3 hyperstone, Heart, boots and Daedalus

stack all the fire spears

 

City and Baka, we'll play tonight! Dunno what time I'll be on, hopefully around the time you guys sent me the invite last night.

Had an okay game as Tidehunter last night. I think I went 3-9-24 or something. Yeah not too hot. During early game, I went against a super aggressive sniper and DK. That's where most my deaths came from, then later on, they would just start to focus me down (Sven + DK + Jakiro stun combos = FTL). Anyways, never really tried the refresher orb build, but I did last night and I wanna say it's what ultimately won us the game. I'd blink dagger in and then Ravage > Refresher Orb > Mana Boots > Ravage. Such a killer surprise combo. The DK and Sven we played against would wait to activate their bkbs until they saw me, but with blink dagger, I caught them off guard many times before they could actually activate BKB. So fun.

 

Baka refuses to play anything past USW server ._.

 

To be honest, all you need for Tidehunter is Blink Dagger, Arcane Boots, Urn of Shadows. Pipe of Insight is a "luxury" item.

I play my "pro" Tide by starting out with either a courier or if another support gets it, I start building Urn of Shadows ASAP, 2 Strength Gauntlets, Clarity and 6 Tangos. TBH you don't even need boots that fast, he has 310 move speed. Arcane boots fast can help as you can just Anchor Smash neutral creeps and gain gold for Blink Dagger. But you should be leaving last hits for your carry.

 

Yeah, usually when I play Tide, I just get blink, mana boots, and urn, too. But I decided to try for refresher last night because one guy in the party was asking me if I was gonna go for it. Never had done it before, so I figured I'd try it. To be honest, it worked out well for us. I honestly don't think we would have won our teamfights if I only had one ravage to pull off. Just one of those situational items, I guess.

Also whenever I play a support role, I usually set my carries up for last hits, but luckily, the guy I was laning with said he didn't really care that I was setting him up and just told me to get them when I could, so I just got my last hits whenever I could.

 

Really sorry for the double post, still having trouble with the "edit post" feature on my work computer =\

As far as getting Urn first, I usually go urn first before boots, but it was just one of those games where you had to tune your build according to the game. Laned against an aggressive DK and sniper and the boots actually helped me escaped death a number of times when they would push..

 

Eh I mean sure it always depends, but I'm saying unlike most Support Heros, Tidehunter has very good stats beginning game, especially early game with 310 speed vs 285-290 for the average support (Crystal Maiden, Vengeful Spirit, Venomancer). He's also a strength support, which is quite rare TBH. You can adjust Tidehunter with Stout Shield into Vanguard/Poor Man's Shield if you are getting harassed alot, it's quite useful.

I don't think you need more than 1 Ravage IMO, but it all depends on your team's composition. Ravage is used to initiate into other AOE/global nukes as it is a huge AOE it stuns and damages. Unfortunately Tidehunter really has to engage very early because he falls off mid/late game as Ravage tops out at 450 damage before damage resistance, unless you can get in multiple Gushes and Anchor Smash. And generally Initiators don't last very long.

 

Is this a bad leshrac build, bloodstone, boots of travel, Shiva's guard?

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Nope that's a very good one imo. Slight tanking early with some good mana for spam. Then the ms/teleporting for key pushing.

 

Yeah figures. I tried Phantom Lancer today, fun stuff. End game, Radiance (1st real core item), Powertreads, Dadelus, Hyperstone, Vladimir

 

hi all,

finally got hold of a game invite and tried the game, for someone that didnt play DOTA, I like it quite a bit. Any of you DOTA seasoned player can provide some links for good site to learn about heroes, creeping and build order strategies?

I could also use some help on any heroes that are recommended for newbies, thanks.

 

You could try dotafire.com

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Ok now the multi-quote function isn't working for me on my work computer boo...anyways...

Hime: About the Tide's ravage, I agree you only really need to land it once for it to be effective. I remember that game, I hadn't really planned on getting refresher for double ravages until someone on the team asked me about it and I decided to give it a shot. Looking back at the game, the double ravage seemed to have been the right choice. haha.

About your Phantom Lancer game, no manta style?! Haha. Most PLs I've gone against/played with had manta style for a max of 10 illusions. Most of them played right and stayed within their group of illusions, which caused a TON of frustration for us. Haha.

FunkyBudda: Just like Roken said, dotafire.com is really a good place to learn about heroes and learn good builds. It's where I like to go.

On Saturday night, I was in a group with friends and we entered a single draft game. Was planning on picking tiny and thought I was pressed the button to play him and it turned out that once the timer ran out, that I didn't. So I ended up getting randomed N'aix. He's actually pretty fun and a lot easier to use than I thought. At endgame, I had treads, skull basher, maelstrom (game ended before I could upgrade to mjollnir), armlet, and I was working towards daedalus (couldn't finish as game ended). Not bad. Ended up like 8/3/24. We had a Riki that pretty much dominated all game. I'd infest myself in him. Right when he'd teleport and cloud, I'd come out and it's almost like a 1shot. Fun times. Looking forward to playing him again, hopefully tonight.

 

Eh I don't see the need for Manta Style to be honest, it takes alot of mana for just 2 illusions. When your illusions die, you get that chance of creating more illusions. Also if your attack speed is increased, ie with my Hyperstone, you have a higher chance of spawning illusions. Case in point you have 8 illusions all hitting you with Dadelus with Vladimir, so good luck trying to run from that.

 

playdota.com is the official site and has guides to all the heroes.

I've been playing for 8 years and the biggest thing for me is having good communication and playing your role.
Then again most people play pub games

 

Hime: Ahhh very well said. I would have to say, though, that manta is probably a core on PL. As you approach mid/late game, 165 mana for 2 illusions for a max of 10 illusions (possibly 12 if you catch the illusion rune) is pretty dangerous. About Vlad's...I thought illusions don't benefit from Vlad's aura? (Read it at Illusions - DotA Mechanics). If anything, I would replace vlad's with Manta, especially because manta synergizes with his passives and it gives you and your illusions +movement speed, +damage, and +armor, especially with +26agi. I would probably have to throw in diffusal blade over vlad's too. I remember someone telling our PL player in a game that the illusions get the orb effect from it, so they burn your target's mana as well.

Helios: I'm with you on having good communication. Even if it's just saying who from your lane is missing, anything's a big help. Can't tell you how many times I've been ganked because someone on my team failed to say that soemone from their lane is missing. Also I really appreciate games where my teammates communicate ult priority.

 

I would say how farmed you are depends on your PL build. I went straight for jungle, I was a bit slow on Radiance @ 30 minutes as my idiot team wanted me to team fight hence me dying and losing alot of farm. Again Spirit Lance costs true 150 mana, but it also slows the target 40% at max skill, by that time 8 illusions are slowly killing the target hence I didn't see the need for diffusal blade. Of course this was my first time playing Phantom Lancer, but boy he isn't easy but he's fun.

 

Yeah, the only bane of PL is that he's very item dependent =/ and you if he can't get the farm or gets shut down early, it's gonna be a long game for him.

Man all this talk about him and now I wanna go play him! He's been on my radar of new heroes to play. Of what I've seen from friends and in pubs, he's got incredible push power. When I play him, I wanna see that push power for myself! haha

 

Phantom Lancer's pushing ability isn't as strong as it looks like. Illusions deal almost no damage to towers unless Arnski has a lot of damage items. Then there's the fact that juxtapose won't make clones on tower hits. Only if Arnski can catch a creepwave nearby the tower can the illusions be used. Even then, the illusions does not last long and there's no guarantee on getting a lot of illusions up.

Manta is bought for the fact that PL can't just use his Q, get one illusion and then walk up to someone in a fight and start whacking to hope to get more illusions. It's for the initial amount of illusions to confuse people and get more illusions with the confusion. If PL uses Q on someone in a fight, people would just stun the real one that's walking in the fight and kill that one quickly before PL gets out of hand. Sure the Doppelwalk makes an illusion too but in case a teamfight goes wrong, that's at least 15 seconds of no escape skill so do not open with that unless one is sure to win the fight.

Baka prefers Diffusal Blade over Radiance on PL. It's cheaper, easier to obtain and helps ganks a lot. Sure one can farm for 20-30 minutes and be all HEY I GOT RADIANCE GUYS while the other team is roflstomping own team and be all "He has a radiance? Excellent he's still squishy. One can say, "But my team is doing well" but if team is doing well, why is the radiance so late then? "Team doing well" translates to an under 20 minutes radiance.

Diffusal can be obtained easily under 20 minutes. Even 15 minutes. It helps chase, gives damage, mana for another one or two skills, mana burn to lockdown strength casters and gives bonus damage, gives illusions mana burn too, agility gives attack speed and armor so technically better survivability. After getting diffusal, it's a matter of getting tankier by getting Assault Cuiras, Butterfly and Heart since diffusal's orb effect already provides the necessary damage for early to mid game and possible the early parts of late game. In fact, the items will not only make PL and illusions last longer, it gives attack speed so technically higher DPS overall than relying on a 40damage/sec AoE. Illusions last longer giving more hits for diffusal and more chance of creating illusions since they don't die in 2-3 hits. A squishy Phantom Lancer with a radiance or hell, even divine rapier, doesn't scare people since it's easy to lock him down.

Baka's end game item for PL tends to be Power Treads, Diffusal Blades, Manta Style, Assault Cuirass, Heart of Tarrasque and Butterfly. Sometimes Baka swaps Manta Style with Monkey King Bar at end game since the initial burst doesn't scare Baka anymore with the semi-tank build.

 

Baka: Yeah most of the PLs that I've seen push and you can see how strong their push power is, is usually late game where he's gotten the farm and has the items. I'll probably try to PL play today.

Play more N'aix yesterday and I still did fairly well. First game I played, I died in my first jungle creep. Haha. Luckily the team didn't say anything and didn't care, so I just kept farming. Ganked the lanes really well and got my farm in. Our Lanaya left like within 10minutes into the game so it was a 4v5 game. Aside from their Invoker, we were able to steamroll through all their other heroes. Their void couldn't use chronosphere to take us out because we were all super buff at that point. Next game was also a win with N'aix. Early game, the Dire was roaming super early and caught me a couple of times, but we kept winning team fights and I eventually got beefy. They all wanted to jump on our Pudge, so I'd infest in him and when they'd pop on him, I'd jump out and we'd kill them.

Question: in the Radiant jungle, does anyone know where in some of the camps you can quell/tango a tree down, get in that gap, and the creep would only be able to attack you one at a time? I remember watching a video where this guy would quell/tango a tree and he's position himself in that gap and the creeps wouldn't be able to attack him all at once.

 

Shouldn't need to do that unless you're jungling with a Hero that isn't meant to jungle. EDIT: It's also an unreliable strategy due to the number of ranged creeps in the neutral areas.


I played a support furion the other day because my team already had 3 hard carries. I feel that he's supposed to be played support gank anyways, as he has no real power until you get the right items. I finished the game with 0 kills 0 deaths and 22 assists. I laid wards and helped gank, and sent an occasional ulti to help my teammates finish off the other teams heroes. near the end I finally picked up a deso, but that just let me push more effectively cause my teammates were so buff by then. Pretty fun match.

 

Fun times with Nature's Prophet, Hand of Midas, Desolator, Dadelus, Orchid, Treads. Of course highest GPM and XPM.

 

One of the tree near the left camp that's next to the ramp leading towards the river/bottom rune. Also at the pull camp but why bother doing that when Arnski should be stacking and then pulling it for efficient jungling anyway.

 

Tree_Burner: But with a stout shield, the ranged creep's attacks are pretty much null and void. And nice Furion play. I like when he's played more of that support gank role as opposed to someone who's trying to play him as a carry.

Baka: Yeah, yesterday when I got home, I found the video I was talking about. There's actually a few spots in the camps where you can hide to make that happen. In the 2 camps near the river, each one has a tree that you can take down. In the camp near the bottom lane, there's a little spot you can walk into. You guys are right, no real need to do that, especially as N'aix, but it's just a nice thing to do when you're going against some of the stronger creeps if you've missed the timer on stacking them or if you've got a stacked camp, but still not strong enough to take them. Needless to say, the guy in the video mentioned this wasn't the fastest way to jungle as, like you guys said, you should be pulling and stacking. I like stacking the camp near the bottom rune, almost got it to a 3 or 4 stack yesterday.

Played more N'aix yesterday. So much fun. We were losing early game as KotL, CM, and Invoker were dominating their lanes. But then for some reason, their CM started to go all rambo like and tried soloing lanes and solo ganking ( ), which didn't work. Then our bloodseeker would catch the KotL pushing alone and for some reason he would keep running after bloodseeker ulted him (could've easily been countered with a TP, especially when he was alone with just bloodseeker). Then, I would hide in Ursa or SK and we would just blow up their Axe and Razor. So fun. Would always end my game with Basher, Mjollnir, Treads, Heart, and Armlet. Felt I didn't need much after that and just saved the last slot for TPs. Moar n'aix games!!!

 

When I play jungle Naix, I don't even bother with stout shield, I always get quelling blade as you need the increase in creep damage. Just max out Feast and your Q to farm creep faster. Only get like 1 level of the Open Wounds as the duration is all the same. Armlet, Mjollinar, Skullbasher/Abyssal Blade, Assault Cuirass, BKB, and Powertreads should be a good build.

Personally I think Naix is too cheap, he has 2 great escapes, one gives 4.5 seconds of BKB, you can also infest a fast teammate. Infest also gives you a good way to hide and initiate like infesting a Tidehunter.

I do my Furion Build as such; 2 x Clarity, and Gloves of Haste and build Hand of Midas ASAP, as it gives insane XP as well as 190 gold from the big neutral creeps. I max out the treants for jungle farm, next tele and slowly level up sprout. Of course his ult is a huge priority, you need it to maximize your GPM. After Hand of Midas, I get Powertreads, then Orchid, then Desolator. Dadelus should be nothing at this point IMO.

Big thing for Furion is to have good micro with your treants early game and don't take on Ursa creep or the Centaur creep, they are too powerful. You can watch my replay of Furion and get a good idea, but GPM GPM GPM should be your target to buy your items. Without items, Furion isn't anything but a tower pusher who has to retreat under fire.

 

Hime: Why forego the stout shield? At least from levels 1-6, the 60% chance to block 20 damage is huge. I can see not getting it if you were laning as you'd have creep to be your meatshield, but I can't see not getting it while jungling.

 

Unless you're Enigma or Furion jungling, it's best to not skip on the stout shield :x

 

Yeah, I figured the stout shield is imperative if you're a jungling melee. Heck, even if you random a melee jungler, you should grab 2 stout shields. Doesn't stack the amount blocked, but it makes your chance to block higher.

Also, the whole thing about finding those spots in the creep camps where only 1 creep would hit you, it's called choke-pointing. It's apparently a good mechanic to use when fighting creep camps and, if you think about it, could quite possibly speed jungling up since not getting hit by only 1 melee creep instead of 2 allows you to keep fighting instead of using up tangoes/waiting for courier to bring you more/going back to fountain.

Dota 2 Lifestealer pic Jungle Guide-Choke Point - DotA Forums

 

The reason why I say don't get stout shield because it eats away at what else you can get to start jungling as Naix. Of course this is the way I play Naix, he has a decent passive lifesteal and it doesn't matter how much damage you are taking except for the earliest levels. But by 2-3 you shouldn't even need Stout Shield, and IMO by that logic you don't need it at all, at least my Naix build. Now if you are laning a hard carry melee hero, yes I always get 1 x Tango, Stout Shield and Quelling Blade as you always get harassed by ranged.

 

lol super fed game as Anti-Mage, 10-0-10. Had the highest GPM and XPM, 574 GPM, 715 XPM. End game; Butterfly, Manta Style, Powertreads, Battlefury, Mjollnir, and Aegis.

Manaburn was faster than a slightly fed Lycan could Vladimir me, he died in like 3 seconds end game against my Manta clones. Of course I could have went Abyssal Blade or Satanic or Dadelus, but attack speed IMO is god for AM.

 

Satanic is stupid on Antimage

Hell, Mjollnir itself seems like a bad choice. Could've been a Monkey King Bar

 

Yeah, I would say Satanic wouldn't have been too good of a choice on AM. His orb effect, mana break, overrides the orb effect from satanic so you don't get the lifesteal. With that much money, you could've gotten a Heart instead and pretty much made yourself even more invincible.

Mjollnir really isn't that bad of a choice as the +damage and +attack speed are super nice on AM, but it just falls under the same thing as satanic with the whole orb effect overriding deal. If it procs lightning, you won't be able to manaburn, which doesn't synergize very well with his ult. Though if it was the last item you got just as a filler, then it's all good. Seeing as how all your other items were spot on and seeing as how you were fed, I can see getting it just to play around with the opposing team.

SO played more N'aix yesterday and man was I off yesterday =\. First game, I was shut down hard while jungling. The Dire team completely shut me down by roaming together and ganking me in our jungle. Next game, I died to jungle creep twice! I don't even know how it happened. First time dying while jungling. So bad. Slowly came back from that and still did okay, but out of the whole team, I did the worst. SUPER off compared to my past games with him. =|

 

I used Mjollinar for the 80 attack speed, not for the chain lightning, but I talked with Baka earlier, guess after Butterfly more attack speed isn't too useful..

 

Yeah, after butterfly, probably the next best items to get would be a heart or BKB.

I remember when I got to play AM. Joined a single draft game with friends and AM was the only one I wanted to play. A bit apprehensive when the game started as I thought he would be tough to play. He actually isn't too bad to play. I like that realization with DotA, that most heroes, actually, aren't hard to play (with the exception of those heroes that have a bajillion abilities).

 

AM really isn't hard to play, I go of course insane carry AM, Battle Fury ~15-17 minutes, Vanguard, Treads, Manta ASAP, Butterfly. I don't even get BKB really unless enemy team has tons of stuns. But the team I played against that game had 1 stun...Sand King.

I level Blink and Mana Break ASAP. Magic Resistance is really crap in the beginning, noobs level that up and think it will protect them, trust me it doesn't. Get Mana Void on 6,11,16.

 

Depends on your lane. If you're laning with int heroes, getting magic defense may prove useful. But AM in general is easy to play, but gets shut down easily early game. He's very item dependent.

 

Mannnn I couldn't get in any DotA play yesterday =\. Girlfriend aggro FTL. Probably won't be able to play until sunday, either.

 

lol I stayed up til like 5 am playing Dota...man I want to go to the International Championships next year..

 

Haha nice! Last weekend, Friday night and Saturday night, I started playing around 10pm and was on till about 5am. It's amazing how fast time flies when playing DotA.

 

Totally feel ya man. DOTA makes my weekends disappear =(. The next thing I know Monday for work is already here!

 

Has Dota 2 been released yet? Is it on beta atm? I'm confused. When I go to Steam and search for the game, an option comes up to sign up and receive a free invite or I can buy an access bundle for $29.99 that has an invite included. Can someone enlighten me on this game?

 

It's still in beta, so you can sign up for a chance to get an invite, or you can buy one

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Ohhhh okay. Thanks for the reply!

 

Yea those games suck up so many hours its amazing.

For AM I usually go Vlads Butterfly BKB Crit Basher/Manta

 

It depends on the enemy team, but if you have Butterfly, you won't need BKB. If it's chain stun team, yes you will need BKB. Ideally I would do Manta, Butterfly, Dadelus, Monkey King Bar, Powertreads, and Heart of Tarrasque.

Dota 2 Stats - Matchstats

Fun game as roaming, ganking Vengeful. They had alot of carries and we shut them down EARLY.

 

If have Butterfly, won't need BKB? Baka does not get that logic ._. BKB prevents spells, Butterfly gives dodge but doesn't prevent spells.

 

Eh logic points to that if you had gotten that far to get those items, they didn't super gank/chain stun AM. Heck most of my AM games I don't need BKB, but maybe it's how I play AM, maxing out Blink first and avoiding danger in the first place..