GTA V discussion

So many people think that rules are laws. That if it's written that it must be followed or you'll be sued or arrested or something. I'm not saying I condone pirating to any degree, but when you buy a game and it gets broken or you get banned something like this, you have zero... and I mean ZERO recourse (at least in USA). You cannot get a refund. You cannot get restitution. You are stuck. So you spend good money on a game and can't play it, what are you to do?

 

your country should have laws regarding sales for items not fit for purpose and that's what a buggy game is. but you're also saying that you should have some level of legal recourse for breaking a company's TOS / EULA because you were banned for modding their game when they haven't allowed for modding?

 

Where have you been the last um, 20 years or more? No there are no laws protecting users for return of gaming software in the USA. None. Only if the seller or publisher opt to offer some form of return policy. And until recently, there have been little no options at all. Even the publishers that do offer it, you have to jump through hoops usually to get it to work.

Just because it's in writing in a TOS or EULA doesn't mean it's legal or even legit. It's just words only to be enforced by the company themselves, and in probably 99% of cases if you fought the TOS or EULA in court of law for any gaming software you'd probably force them to change their policies and wording. But who's going to do that for a $50-$60 game?

Not only that, gamers are sheep and just consume what is thrown at them, and now we end up with unfinished product, pay for basically pre-alpha code with all this "early access" crap. Then there's users like you just go "la la la" for the ride and take whatever they say as gospel: "Oh, in the EULA, it says I must kill myself if I fail the 100th mission ten times in a row, and I just did... so good bye cruel world..."

I mean it's no different than if you bought a car and they said you couldn't change any component in the vehicle for any reason or you couldn't drive the car any more. But you just swapped out the floor mats because they were crap and falling apart, but then they see this and remotely shut off your ignition so you can't drive any more. It's no more dumb that this. Sure it's written in your purchase contract, but it's dumb and likely wouldn't hold up in court of law.

In any case this is a futile argument that I've had 100 times over the last 10-15 years and not going to take the bait again. Go ahead and just march to the drum of the RIAA, MPAA, and gaming software publishers. They are in it for their own selfish reasons, period. There is no customer protection or any thought of doing anything to please the customer.

 

you're right about the MPAA, they're the biggest crooks cos they pirate their own movies

i agree that modding is a very difficult topic to discuss and i am happy to let it go. the ball's in R*'s court.

 

Modding is not a difficult topic to discuss. It shouldn't matter what users do with their game, especially in any environment that does not involved ranked servers, single player or otherwise. If you want to mod away and let 100 people join your server there is no reason you shouldn't be able to. It doesn't affect anything, just people trying to have fun. Nothing except some local laws dictate how you can modify your bike, your car, your home (for the most part), your clothes. Imagine if Levi jeans said nobody could stone or acid wash their jeans or put holes in them or dye them, otherwise it was in violation of your purchase contract that you technically signed when buying the jeans? I mean it sounds ridiculous but this is no different.

 

Speaking of EULAs, the Apple EULA for OS X is broken every time someone installs OS X on a hackintosh, and what do people get? A custom-built, reasonably-priced and extremely powerful computer that runs OS X. Sometimes I feel EULAs, especially those that come with broken, buggy software, let it be a game or any other pro software, are meant to be broken. Just like rules. Because the developer itself abuses the EULA and gets away with selling customers sub-par quality products, and we just have to accept it.

Keeping OS X in mind, on older Macs (i.e. pre-2011), Yosemite is broken. WiFi disconnectivity, crashes, sudden reboots and kernel panics. Things that were unheard of in the Snow Leopard days.

Doesn't the U.S. have a Lemon Law? My country does and I returned software, even digitally-distributed ones, more than once because the developer didn't honour their word during release, such as missing features and a buggy release. I got a full refund, too. No vouchers/store credit/etc.

 

No, it doesn't. It's also why things such as the whole Net Neutrality thing are even a thing. The US in particular is very anti-consumer.

 

Constantly growing numbers of fanboys justifying every publishers' (manufacturers, producers, sellers, etc.) action, or, should I say, mindless consumer sheep who happily eat whatever **** they are thrown at, screw things up for people who didn't forget what is to be a customer, and how to vote with their wallet. World is made the way it is by people inhabiting it. Get some self-respect, for everyone's sake.

 

That is plain stupid. Whatever happened to 'the customer is king'? I'm not saying either party, consumer or firm, should abuse their rights, but firms are abusing the leeway given to them.

 

Because of how much power corporate lobbyists have in Washington. They control our laws.

Oh look who Obama appointed as FCC chaiman. That's right, former cable and wireless lobbyist Tom Wheeler. Great president, I must say. Net neutrality is in safe hands.

 

Lol, net neutrality. Where I live, ashleymadison.com, and some one hundred porn sites (including all the famous ones) are blocked. Netflix, Pandora and several U.S.- and Europe-only services are not available here. We have to use VPNs and can't complain. See here and here.

Our government was also on the verge of blocking TPB and kat.ph until Internet lobbyists pressured them to back off.

 

Source

 

So, ran some benchmarks with my current settings and OCs on GPU and CPU:

Spoiler

Frames Per Second (Higher is better) Min, Max, Avg
Pass 0, 26.462318, 68.015663, 48.881424
Pass 1, 23.910641, 62.967632, 43.352531
Pass 2, 6.412352, 70.653427, 47.790150
Pass 3, 28.636658, 80.952408, 54.222374
Pass 4, 8.727631, 91.234436, 46.526741

Time in milliseconds(ms). (Lower is better). Min, Max, Avg
Pass 0, 14.702496, 37.789585, 20.457668
Pass 1, 15.881175, 41.822384, 23.066704
Pass 2, 14.153595, 155.949020, 20.924814
Pass 3, 12.352937, 34.920277, 18.442572
Pass 4, 10.960773, 114.578636, 21.493015

Frames under 16ms (for 60fps):
Pass 0: 2/455 frames (0.44%)
Pass 1: 1/403 frames (0.25%)
Pass 2: 8/438 frames (1.83%)
Pass 3: 27/501 frames (5.39%)
Pass 4: 79/5244 frames (1.51%)

Frames under 33ms (for 30fps):
Pass 0: 454/455 frames (99.78%)
Pass 1: 400/403 frames (99.26%)
Pass 2: 432/438 frames (98.63%)
Pass 3: 500/501 frames (99.80%)
Pass 4: 5194/5244 frames (99.05%)

Percentiles in ms for pass 0
50%, 20.00
75%, 22.00
80%, 22.00
85%, 23.00
90%, 24.00
91%, 24.00
92%, 24.00
93%, 25.00
94%, 25.00
95%, 25.00
96%, 25.00
97%, 26.00
98%, 27.00
99%, 27.00

Percentiles in ms for pass 1
50%, 23.00
75%, 25.00
80%, 25.00
85%, 26.00
90%, 27.00
91%, 27.00
92%, 28.00
93%, 28.00
94%, 28.00
95%, 28.00
96%, 29.00
97%, 30.00
98%, 31.00
99%, 32.00

Percentiles in ms for pass 2
50%, 20.00
75%, 23.00
80%, 24.00
85%, 24.00
90%, 26.00
91%, 26.00
92%, 27.00
93%, 27.00
94%, 27.00
95%, 28.00
96%, 28.00
97%, 29.00
98%, 31.00
99%, 33.00

Percentiles in ms for pass 3
50%, 17.00
75%, 20.00
80%, 20.00
85%, 21.00
90%, 22.00
91%, 22.00
92%, 23.00
93%, 23.00
94%, 24.00
95%, 25.00
96%, 26.00
97%, 26.00
98%, 27.00
99%, 28.00

Percentiles in ms for pass 4
50%, 21.00
75%, 24.00
80%, 25.00
85%, 26.00
90%, 27.00
91%, 27.00
92%, 27.00
93%, 28.00
94%, 28.00
95%, 29.00
96%, 29.00
97%, 30.00
98%, 31.00
99%, 32.00

=== SYSTEM ===
Windows 8.1 64-bit (6.2, Build 9200)
DX Feature Level: 11.0
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4710MQ CPU @ 2.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~2.5GHz
8192MB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M , 2089MB, Driver Version 350.12
Graphics Card Vendor Id 0x10de with Device ID 0x1392

=== SETTINGS ===
Display: 1920x1080 (Windowed) @ 60Hz VSync ON
Tessellation: 2
LodScale: 1.000000
PedLodBias: 0.000000
VehicleLodBias: 0.000000
ShadowQuality: 2
ReflectionQuality: 2
ReflectionMSAA: 8
SSAO: 1
AnisotropicFiltering: 16
MSAA: 0
MSAAFragments: 0
MSAAQuality: 0
TextureQuality: 2
ParticleQuality: 1
WaterQuality: 2
GrassQuality: 2
ShaderQuality: 2
Shadow_SoftShadows: 2
UltraShadows_Enabled: true
Shadow_ParticleShadows: true
Shadow_Distance: 1.000000
Shadow_LongShadows: true
Shadow_SplitZStart: 0.930000
Shadow_SplitZEnd: 0.890000
Shadow_aircraftExpWeight: 0.990000
Shadow_DisableScreenSizeCheck: false
Reflection_MipBlur: true
FXAA_Enabled: true
TXAA_Enabled: false
Lighting_FogVolumes: true
Shader_SSA: true
DX_Version: 2
CityDensity: 1.000000
PedVarietyMultiplier: 1.000000
VehicleVarietyMultiplier: 1.000000
PostFX: 1
DoF: false
HdStreamingInFlight: true
MaxLodScale: 0.300000
MotionBlurStrength: 0.200000

 

i stopped playing this game till they fix the driving performance. I cant stand driving and having the frame rate fluctuate so much. Standing still i get great performance. I just want a constant 60fps!

 

P.S. Meanwhile, driving around at a nice, constant 40 FPS...

 

I get around 90 fps running around and 55-60 driving around fast. If you expect it to be constant at all phases in the game you will be disappointed.

I see you are using a 970m. Have you messed with your settings at all? I can keep my 970m laptop at a steady 52-60 fps on very high by messing with shadow quality, draw distance, and msaa. This game will push high end desktop gfx cards so dont expect a 970m to run it flawlessly.

 

im running TWO 970m's in sli, overclocked, surpassing stock Titan X levels, I should be all set on the GPU side.

I also get about 55-60 while driving, its the 5 frame dip im trying to eliminate, i can feel it pretty bad especially since sli stutters horribly with anything under the refresh rate

 

dang 2 970m cards in a laptop. You have any issues with heat? I think its great you got it performing better than a Titan X. Most reviews I've read on 970m SLI have just barely outpaced a regular 980m (20-25%). But those were months ago. I'm sure a lot has changed.

 

two 970m's are pretty far ahead of a single 980m today, anywhere between 27-40% at stock depending on the game. Also these cards run very cool, the GT80 titan chassis is big, i never go over 72C, and that's overclocked. You really need to flash a custom vbios to make these cards scream, they have tons headroom. Ive seen people on these forums hit 20k graphic scores in firestrike with two 970m's

 

I thought GTA V was best with a single card at the moment, that SLI was not quite "up to snuff" with drivers yet. Try running with a single card first and see how well it does.

 

Single card will definitely give a lower overall fps, but it should retain smoothness. I can't make the game stay above 60; I get CPU limited in some parts. The CPU limited parts are so random I don't even think an overclock is worth the heat for me (at least till I get a GPU fan; my slave is pretty chilly with its OC).

The drop below 60 is what's jarring, the actual ~55fps isn't. At least for me.

 

I agree. Even with my 4720HQ overclocked with NO throttling at all, i get cpu limited, and never see the SLI status bar full All other games are fine, even sleeping dogs

 

The GT80 can never suffice for that game. Even with the 4980HQ in it, you'd need to max out the OC bins and then you couldn't supply that kind of TDP to the chip for those clocks. I tried at 3.8GHz and it helped a bit, but not much.

For me to get 60+ in this game I'll need all my planned upgrades for this laptop: A 4910MQ or 4930MX/4940MX chip to run at ~4.3GHz or higher with the EM heatsink to deal with the heat, and maxwell GPUs so that my slave card keeps cool enough (and for the extra power), even if I need to leave them at stock without an extra PSU (even though that's planned too). And hell, the RAM as well. This game uses almost 3GB of RAM I think; at least 2.5GB I've noticed. More than almost any other game I've ever run. Cl11 1600Mhz RAM is bad for SLI. Should either be faster for that latency or have lower latency and I'm honestly just too lazy to test; knowing my hardware it probably sucks and won't OC nor tighten timings haha.

But yes, GTA 5's port is all about single GPU, running NOTHING but GTA at all and maintaining mostly 60fps. You can't even force a GPU bottleneck on it, because when you get CPU limited you drop under 60fps anyway; somewhere around 45fps. Ugh, last night at one point (with my cards OC'd) I managed to hit (and I kid you not) 40% scaling at one point. That's 40% of each cards. That's like, 80% of 1 card. It was that bad of a bottleneck.

 

yeah it sucks, i figured 3.6ghz on all 4 cores with no throttling on my 4720hq could handle it with sli, i never drop below 55fps, so its just enough to tick me off!

 

Rock solid performance here still on a measly old single 970m and bottom of the barrel cpu at stock clocks, great game

Seems you guys just need to sell those second cards!

 

So, is there an NBR GTA V crew? Welp, I've created one, feel free to join it!
http://socialclub.rockstargames.com/crew/notebook_review_

 

Do you have any performance tips? I have a GT72 with a 4720 and a 980m and sometimes the fps drops to 25. Its horrible!

 

Lower your graphics settings.

 

My single card gives me from 84-114 fps even while driving through busy areas. I have a mixture of high, normal and all sliders of population maxed out. For what ever reason, SLI is a problem with this game as noted in TotalBiscuits GTA V - Port Report.

You should try disabling Hyper Threading to see if that makes any difference.

 

I think hyperthreading will cause me more problems than it'll fix, since I've seen people hit 100% flat with i5s.

Also, I don't have a lot of stuff on "normal"... I guess lowering things flat out would reduce both CPU draw and thus minimum FPS. I'm happy with what I have, mind you. I've got it set up good enough that my real minimum is somewhere around 50 in 1% of scenarios and 55 in ~25% of scenarios, and I usually maintain over 60fps. But yeah, this game is something else. Hell, it's even possible that the game automatically has a bonus on Windows 7 as opposed to Windows 8 (if it's limiting itself to ~80% of an i7 in win 8 by Windows Task Manager, that translates to ~62% of actual usage... if it limited usage to 80% in win 7 by task manager, that'd be 80% actual CPU usage, and you'd have MUCH more power to work with, thus killing the minimums)... but I don't have the drive to test that. I'm not installing a new OS purely to test if GTA 5 worked better on it.

My earlier statement was purely a "max graphics and never below 60fps" deal.

 

I just play the game at 30 fps with very high settings and I think it's fine.

 

it might be a 1st world problem (ironic since my country is so third world it hurts) but having a 120Hz screen to play a game at 30fps when it does not need to be at 30fps for bad engine design (like Dark Souls 1) is just.... a waste. A painful, painful, waste, that I'm not prepared to accept.

 

i play GTAV at 30fps cos well i am on a 60hz display and i am controlling the experience. it also depends on whether the PC can handle a consistent 60fps and i have times where the game would go in the high 40s which annoys me to no end.

 

So just because you can't hold a constant 60 FPS, you're settling for only 30 FPS? Seems a bit excessive to me. Your overclocked 780M performs slightly below a 680, which gets a little over 60 FPS with these settings and all Advanced Graphics turned off. So 60 FPS should be perfectly feasible for you as long as you're willing to compromise on a few settings.

 

remember, my overclock is the 680's base clock so those settings might not give the performance i want.

 

100 MHz...big difference. It's still faster than the 670 and 760 both of which also get 60 FPS or close to it. In fact, since you have double the VRAM as 680, you could increase texture quality beyond what that card can do.

 

either way it 30fps works for me in this case.

 

I like this guy, although, I agree with @octiceps - 30 FPS is a tad too extreme. He might consider Vsync-ing to 60FPS instead.

I understand that 60 FPS constant is the sweet, orgasmic spot, but why is fluctuating FPS such a huge issue? I barely notice it swinging from 35-50 FPS if I quickly pan around. On a 60 Hz screen, there barely is any difference.

 

If it works for you, that's great. I don't blame you for it. But to understand what it's like to me to kill a GPU and run at 30fps, you'd need to manually set your card to 504/3000 from 1009/6000, then lock your game to 15fps. Single GPU and 60Hz I'd get it, if you want the fully smooth experience without the jarring framerate jumps (which are worse than lower framerates itself), but not with what I've got. My main and only annoyance is that I just cannot seem to kill the CPU bottleneck without just tossing the game to medium. Once that CPU bottleneck's gone, even at stock clocks on my cards, I would never dip below 60.

Hopefully a patch would fix it.

 

FTFY

 

Never mind me, I'm just happy to play the game with whatever FPS I can get.

 

You are a brave man.

If you get that 970 desktop your heads will get blown esp. when playing Witcher 3.

 

I think I might actually postpone the purchase of a new PC.
But as long as GTA V runs it's all fine. It would be funny if TW3 ran on my lappy too (though no chances), especially considering that TW2 didn't.

 

Hopefully my drivers will work in Windows 10, you mean.

 

Indeed. I say that I'm happy with lower FPS but I saw my friend's desktop R9 280X blast through X-Plane and GTA V at 60 FPS consistently. And for the first time, I had a twinge of regret when I looked at my laptop.

 

That would be why I bought this thing. Not that I expected intel and nVidia to discard the entire market but one year after I got the thing...

 

The main reason I play some games at 30fps is because the game just can't give a consistent 60fps. The only real benefit of 30fps is the lower GPU temps.

I don't think I have ever played a shooter at 30fps on PC.

 

Don't...

Don't remind me...

That those exist....

 

Oh, hi there!

 

I noticed that I got stuttering and slow downs with my Onfoot radio Mod unless Hyperthreading was enabled.