How will Ampere scale on laptops?

Vbios flashing will be interesting this generation

 

I'm 99% sure its going to be in there because by the numbers it looks like a feature set of this gens laptop tech.

Also optimus, I'm looking into a lot of laptops with whacky stats and they are running a lot better with external displays.

Also WTF dropping the DP port to roll it in with USB type C......mind you I have uses for that. But at least give me more type C ports or a TB.

Aye, I'm waiting to see which of the madmen flash a SCAR 17 to 150w. or if you can go higher.

I'm pretty sure some clevo "clones" get up to that at least.

 

The scar 17, GE76 and other medium sized 17 inch laptops should come with 150w vbios by default.

 

SCAR 17 is 115w+15w and the GE76 is 150w + ? As per the little show they did.

 

Stupid Asus XD

 

"working as intended" - I hate this, the most infuriating justification of issues and poor design, all too common in technology unfortunately. The fact that it's not working as the users expect doesn't matter. The passive-aggressive "Respectfully" at the end is just a little cherry on top of this gem. Well, apparently, people keep paying them money for these products and service. Let's remember - the free market is always right

 

Another gem from an Failienware AMA with https://www.reddit.com/r/Alienware/...ware_discord_ama_with_eddy_goyanes_and_ernie/

Q: What are the power limits for the GPUs in the M15 R4 and M17 R4?

I shouldn't say, but M17 R4 - RTX 3080 (150W) / 3070 (115W) ----M15 R4 = 115W

No, you should say, otherwise consumers could be confused, and that's what Nvidia recommended anyway.

 

ok with a little thought.....iv'e figured out the reason they are doing this

demand is high and quantitys are limited

can someone please buy me a 3080 3090 or 6900xt...lol...no you cant they are all sold out

now if nvidia has a ton of chips but they are all binned differently they can lower the tdp and walla it will work hence increasing demand...this is why

it is logical and the most likely reason

 

I think you meant they can increase supply? Well, more granular binning could be helpful, but it's not clear it would increase supply per se. Let's say that before the same chips would be binned into Max-Q and Max-P, and now there are 6 different bins or something - the overall number of chips sent to the market is the same. Anyway, none of this explains why they decided to conceal the actual bin from the customers by default. Customers have to beg most OEMs for information about TGP, It's a borderline scam.

 

Calling a mobile gpu the same name as a full blown desktop gpu is just pure fraud and anti-consumer. Pascal and the full 980 mobile were the only ones that weren't. 5-10% from desktop in real games and synthetic benchmarks is totally fine, most gamers would know how to get some if not all of that back, but more than that is a different product.

If nvidia wanted they could easily just have a totally separate mobile naming system with fixed performance per name, problem solved. Just like desktops just produce the MAX MAX level card for a generation then scale down from there, adding more cards with appropriate numbering later on. A 15" laptop is the standard so how hard is that? If a manuf thinks it has the cooling etc solution to produce a very thin and light laptop with a higher performing card so be it, that's what return periods/warranties are for. If a manuf wants to sell the max max versions with thick and heavy premium laptops that are well cooled etc I'm sure there's a market for that too.

 

yeah i meant supply....isnt it obvious why they are doing this


you guys wonder? i don't thats the difference

 

Except they don't. The mobile parts are called "NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080/3070/3060 Laptop GPU."

 

Yeah, it does allow them to sell parts that would have failed to bin, it's an obvious use considering no laptop was every going to have the cooling to run anything close to the power needed to equal desktop performance on the same named part, 3070 desktop to 3070 laptop for example. It actually isn't a bad thing considering the shortages would be worse without it and you couldn't have ever run the full fat in a laptop anyways. The name game on the other hand is a real debacle for the consumer side of the equation. I've been watching every video showing benchmarks youtube is willing to show me and it seems to me a bit of a consensus is starting to form. The lower power 3080s are hitting at or slighly behind 2070 supers. The higher power at right around a 2080 but you're still only looking at 130. To me it's astonishing that a new generation of cards are out and the top dog among them can be beaten by a 2070 in any form. Shouldn't happen. There is very little out there that I can find showing what a legit 150 card is going to do but you can figure it will slot in between a 2080 super and a desktop 3070. I'm thinking right now without a clevo or similar pushing a card up to 200 were not going to see 3070 desktop performance, maybe not even then. It's discouraging for sure if like me, you're in the market because your 1080 is getting long in the tooth. At least a frequent this place and know enough to check the power, a lot of people are going to buy 3080s that don't match up to last years second best. Should be a law against this kind of obfuscation.

 

so you are saying they should not release? just because they cannot get something with equal power but 1/10th the size..

as sat mentioned they are saying laptop gpu aka laptop gpu


as for tdp without them we would be in short supply

 

No, I'm saying even informed buyers need to run a gauntlet to find out what it is they're buying and also not by any name should the top card available this year be beaten by the second best from last year but a buyer who doesn't read up can make just that purchase and it shouldn't be happening. Too me this appears to be a purposeful attempt at misdirection simply because is serves no other master. Then only good news we have here is that better stuff is coming; we know for certain a number of higher power cards are coming, just no how much and when. As pointed out elsewhere it probably should be kept in mind that they seems to have left something on the shelf since we know we can cool laptops with more power than anything currently announced; a 3080 mobile Ti if you will. It's going to be the exact same as those available now but they'll change the spec to 175 or whatever and charge extra because... Nvidia.

 

Already laptops with the capped of balls 3080 Mobile near 3070 desktop performance. But most likely heavly oc'd within it's crippled TGP. A Clevo X170 with 200W cards if that happens should come above at stock clocks.

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_rtx_3070_founder_review,26.html

 

that's pretty good results for a 120w card probably its the GE66 MSI laptop
The clevo version of 3080 looks very promising....

 

feeling dizzy

so it is indeed as fast as a 2080ti

 

How long will that boost clocks stay at top in games? The two Time Spy graphics tests don't last forever The graphics score is still too low vs 2080 Ti.

And MSI put the nail into their top dog. Now full race towards Apple design.

 

Maybe they are just jumping ship and a socketed amd laptop is in the works.

The GE75 could handle a 200w vbios without issue last gen in any case so the GE76 is sure to be able to as well with its upgraded cooling. Just need the vbios from clevo/gigabyte/tongfang desktop replacements

 

My best guess... Newer models will become thinner and lighter. See... You can't fill a 6L bag with 8L sand. (cooling vs. chassis size). And Tiger lake will come in 8 cores flavours.

And AMD can't provide enough chips. BGA it will be Most likely from the Blue camp. Remember AMD need to fulfill their agreement they have for chips to the consoles. DIY (retails) or OEMs will come last. I think I have said enough


AMD feels supply shortages will affect PS5, Xbox Series X, and PC gaming until at least 2H 2021

 

yea, I think its shady. personally it would be tough but I think they should structure it (gen)(placement)(TDP) IE; M38 80-150 or even simpler 3080TDP. both satisfy the big number gooder of the brains of the masses.

Hell, they arn't even on the same die. Desktop is 102/103 and mobile is the same 104.

 

I wasn't trying to pick out best/worst cases, I was looking at what people were getting on average and that is nowhere near a desktop 3070 at this point. Very few 150s have seen numbers sneak out so I'm only inferring what they might do based on how the cards we have numbers for are scaling now. Based on that 150 isn't going to get you to a desktop 3070. Most of the higher numbers right now are from the Scar and a few others that are hitting at 120 to 130 with the lower numbers coming from Razor and similar. I also wasn't counting overclocking because it's way too early to guess how reliably these might benefit from OCing, what might be possible in BIOS, etc. I was in any event talking about most consumers and none of that will matter to them because they won't go there; what comes out of the box is what they're going to have. Not that it isn't important or a valuable contribution to the conversation here; people like us will base our purchases partially on what we know we can do with it after we get it out on the table. It just doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying which is that it's a travesty some people will by an 3080, any 3080, just because they assume the bigger number is better and yet it may turn out the last years second best is faster. That's all kind of messed up.

 

This sounds plausible. Asus made a socketed AMD laptop before, and I wouldn't be surprised if MSI decided to do this due to Rocket Lake's power requirements.

It seems that the laptop manufacturers confidence in Intel is eroding. I'm seeing more AMD CPU laptops now than I've seen in a while.

 

Hence I posted the reply above. "How long will that boost clocks stay at top in games?"

Then you have the other options as below. But as long we haven't the results from the Clevo nothing is put in stone. See what I said below "IF".

 

Is there any reviews of the 150w cards that have made it out into the wild? I haven't seen any and that's pretty sketchy.

 

Based on what I’ve seen, there are no 150W 3070s this time around. 3070 goes up to 115W + 15W max and I’ve no idea whether the 150W 3080 means 135+15 or 150+15. Ideally the 150W +15W, if it exists, should touch 2080Ti scores if overclocked. But there’s so little information out there, it all feels like a scam.

 

I'm pretty sure the 3080's are 135w +15w as seen on some of the tongfang rebrands.

Yea, this gen feels scummy. Not liking it at all.

Dosent help all the competition we were promised is nowhere to be found.

 

Quite sure 150w it will be. Dell Alienware is known for bragging numbers

And they list their 3080 in m17 R4 refresh as 150W. Not 150+15W = 165W

https://www.reddit.com/r/Alienware/...ware_discord_ama_with_eddy_goyanes_and_ernie/

 

I'd sooner wrestle a starving dog wearing a raw meat loincloth before I trust Dell/alienware's specs.

They are the company that went back and nerfed their hardware through an OTA update after their kit started lighting up iirc.

 

Oh' I know I have followed all their dirty tricks as hand in glove the last 8 years. But I think I should trust them in the claimed 150W vs already discussed here 150+15W

 

Some thin and light laptops nowadays have better cooling than desktop replacements of old so I wouldn't be so quick to judge.

As I have said before laptops still haven't reached their full potential in terms of cooling.

 

Their goals is obvious... Go thinner. The reason etc MSI abandoned GT76

And they still haven't reached their full potential in terms of thinnes/less weight

What is better than rely on Nvidia dynamic boost ? Cheaper than proper oversized cooling. What would you do if you was in their shoes? Put more money than needed in the cooling (more copper will also increase the notebook's weight - This is unwanted) or go Nvidia's way?

They all will go the same way... http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-r4-owners-lounge.835058/page-8#post-11074499


From the Discord AMA as above with Alienware's big bosses Ernie & Eddy.

Q: How much better is the cooling system in the R4 versions vs R3? Looks like a small improvement but there's not a lot of reviews out there currently to really get a good sense.

Ernie & Eddy: Well, ALL of the R4 configs include vapor chamber cooling. In R3 it depended on which GPU you got. So that's a plus. And don't forget the TCC Offset controller offered in the R4 now. It's like cruise control for your CPU temps.

 

I wouldn't dismiss then so quickly.

Don't be so blinded by frustration and miss the fact that msi innovated and made the GT76 which has the most beefy cooling to date after releasing thin and light laptops like the GS65 and GS75 when other companies like Asus reused the GX703 design.

Perhaps they deemed the RTX 3080M unworthy of implementing in the GT76.

Bet you didn't know the GE66, GE76 and GS66 are all thicker and heavier than their last gen counterparts. That answers your question.

Anyways, I was referring to weight to cooling ratio to be specific. As an engineer I see so much untapped potential in laptops like the blade 17 and Lenovo legion 7i it's disgusting.

Whats happening now is just loads and loads of artificial segmentation (MSI GF, Asus TUF) and laptop makers being lazy to find out what their laptops are truly capable of handling and just putting the lowest spec that'll qualify.

 

Not that I've seen, just anecdotal stuff; thats why I'm inferring performance based on the delta between the lower power 3080s as compared to the higher power 3080s where we can see numbers. That's going to put the 150s above a 2080 but below the 370 desktop

@Papusan My multi quote didn't work for some reason. On one of the Asus laptop reviews they showed it holding the 130 over time, it has in settings the option for always on, off, and auto. I'd like to see a bit more on it but it appears right now like at least some iterations will hold boost.

 

With less power hungry hardware as Ryzen Mobile and Tiger lake it will be one road down in thickness. Mark my words

Yeah, maybe it holding the 130 over time, but I talked more about the overclock score on Futuremark leaderboard. Two differnt things. Stock vs max oc'd within TGP target. Aka boost clocks will be lower than what you can expect from that Time Spy score (near 3070 desktop levels). A shorter run as Time Spy's two tests is another animal than 24/7 gaming

 

I don't think this review has been posted: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schen...-laptop-review-El-Dorado-tuning.517577.0.html

Xmg 125+15w rtx3070

 

Lmao the 3080 in the Gigabyte is underperforming the 3070 in this by more than 10%. The graphics score of 10900 is lower than the 2080 desktop super by 5% atleast. The old 2080 super mobile 150W performs almost the same as 140W 3070 lol.
However the 2080 super mobile laptops are a fair bit costlier though.

 

Yes if rtx 3000 laptops were msrp it would be a lot more compelling

 

It shows that if you already have 2080S you better keep your money in your pocket. However, I'm still curious to see the performance of a 200w 3080 in a clevo machine.

 

Quoted for emphasis.

 

On an unrelated note, just heard from 3D Mark support team that all 30 series notebook results will be whitelisted in a couple hours. So we should get an idea as to which OEM is performing at which level.

Edit: Unlocked already

The current leader is the GE76 Raider by MSI
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/17841882

13500 points on timespy graphics. Overclocked I assume ? Either way, very close to 2080Ti and better than the average desktop 3070 according to notebook check. Not bad at all. Now if you can find this for 2K, that would be great.

 

Please share if you find a review of the GE76.

 

There are a couple reviews on YouTube that will come up in a search.

 

After witnessing LTT's secret buyer get downright swindled by Dell ordering a computer I would NEVER buy a Dell/Alienware. I don't care how good it is or how exactly it fits my niche desires.

 

Never found any, only comes up as GE66.

 

Nah gonna disagree with you on this one, most people will see that and say oh great it's a 3080 except in a laptop. No separate naming is what it should be, they didn't say "laptop" gpu in turing and that was total fraud.

 

MSI's new Flagship 2021. GE76

Full BGA = Downgrade
2 M.2 ssd slots = Downgrade
2x SODIMM = Downgrade from 4x SODIMM
280W adapter - Damn nice. Barely enough = Downgrade (Nvidia Dynamic boost?).
COOLING = Downgrade at least for the Cpu. The payback for going back to BGA Cpu.

The thickness decreased as expected due the change to full BGA. Yeah full race towards Razer and Apple books. Of course you can't pack in same amount hardware as last years flagship in a smaller design.

@Falkentyne. Is there any hope that the Msi boys can use a more powerful power adapter on Msi's new gamingbook flagship? Or no hope for a EC fix on the new flagship?

 

also

What's the use of using an Intel CPU if it's not even to easily get TB on there? Maybe if they used AMD's more efficient CPUs it would be better off.

 

Finally found one that just isnt comparing spec sheets.....gotta skip to about half way through because dude seems intent on making this an ASMR experience.