How will Ampere scale on laptops?

Getting some real traction on reddit



@Papusan @Mr. Fox @hfm @JRE84

 

Knowing what you are buying and being willing to accept the flaws is fine if that is what a person wants to do. But, it never ceases to amaze me that people buy trash like that and expect that it will somehow magically turn out well. That they seem surprised or disappointed that it sucks, and complain about it, is rather puzzling.

 

Yeah. Pretty much all you can do is, if you care, be an informed consumer and buy what you want from a place that provides transparency. Most people probably won't even know to ask though.

 

Notebookcheck is currently making a list of RTX 3060 laptops and the GPU's TGP. By default, the list is ordered from highest TGP to lowest. I imagine they would make lists for RTX 3070 and RTX 3080 laptops.

 

Asus Zephyrus rtx '3080': pitiful performance. If you add the XMG Neo 3070 150w to the comparison it destroys the 3080 100w: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-...iew-Eye-catcher.517789.0.html#toc-performance

 

RTX 3060 (80w-95w) vs RTX 3060 (115w)


Interesting results depending on the price of RTX 3060 laptops

 

That is the danger in buying anything based on assumptions. If you buy something because it is made by brand X or because it has Y GPU or Z CPU... look out. That is a great way to end up with regrets, especially where notebooks are concerned. There are way too many other piece of nonsense to the puzzle, like thermal management and cancer firmware, that can make specs far less relevant than they would be with a desktop. Brand X can totally ruin amazing specs if the people that build it are idiots.

 

I don't yet see a single device that doesn't have what I view as a flaw. Mos, it's a low power card but there are other things like some that are HD only; sorry, but my own opinion is that higher power gaming laptops can do a legit 2k and I want it. It's an excellent match in terms of running the desktop native, gaming performance, sharp images and video, etc. Of course you can get that in say, the Scar, but then you've got the weak video. The Tong mentioned above does look like a possibility. I'm a little butt hurt that you only get 10 more watts with the 3080 but at least it doesn't appear to have major deal breakers.

Yeah, I do get that some of that is subjective but I think where I'm going is that when I bought the laptop I have now there were multiple candidates that checked the boxes I wanted checked, had similar performance. I had choices and had to dig into the finer details to decide where to drop the ching. Right now I feel like I'm trying to dig a diamond out of the rough and further have to find a way to rationalize the purchase. That ain't good.

 

Just looking at it it's kind of disappointing there aren't more 2k screens there but at least most of them are a minimum of 144hz. Needs pricing too hopefully that will be put in at some point. No info on what is with boost and what is without it either, in one of their other articles with video links on benchmarks I posted to above they were saying the 60w base with a boost is okay being called an 80w, seems screwy to me. Another thing I can't understand is how a mgpu with double the so called "cuda" cores in a 2060mgpu only gets 20% more perf in games and benchmarks, seems low to me.

 

DB 2.0 and resizable BAR pretty much useless at launch.

 

I haven't seen any benefit from it on my desktop 3090 either, so don't read too much into it. I saw no discernible difference before and after with supporting system BIOS, vBIOS and supporting driver in place. Benchmark scores were still better on older versions of Windows with drivers that do not support it.

At this point is seems totally worthless, just like the GPU scheduling gimmick that was supposed to be something special.

 

Just browsing through some of these 3060 laptops you can see the confusion, take a look at this memory express listing.

https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX00115379

It says it has a 10500h hexacore in the title but still has 10870h in the description, not to mention it says it has a MAX-P 3060? No mention of tgp, wattage etc Still think they should have bumped vram across the board but that's a lost cause of course.

You'll have to look at the reviews for exactly what you are looking at with detailed information to know what you're getting.

 

In lots of cases the marketing and system configuration options available for selection while shopping play to the ignorance of buyers. In some cases they don't even identify the CPU as anything other than i5, i7 or i9 on laptops because even that tidbit is more than most of the people buying them understand.

 

The m17r4 apparently has a 165W 3080 according to Toms hardware. Why can’t these websites atleast include a standard timespy run ?

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/alienware-m17-r4

 

Zephyrus S heatsink looking juicy this gen



Vs last gen



Pity they went with a tripod gpu mount though

 

Please post links. But yeah, damn disgusting.

RTX 3060 LAPTOP GPUThe smallest graphics chip leaves little to be desired in 1080p computerbase | Today

The GeForce RTX 3060 laptop GPU is the tiny model of the series on paper, but steals the show from the big ones in the test, but not only in FHD....

 

Tbf it's the best 3060+Ryzen tested against the worst 3080+Intel. Very much would like to see the 3080 16GB 150w + Ryzen from XMG.

 

Here you go https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLapt.../?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Also heard that Asus is dropping the GX703 this gen so rip desktop replacement laptops.

 

They haven't updated the G703 in a while and even in their marketing materials referred to it as an 'old school clamshell'. They seem to be heading in the direction of dual screen laptops in the high end, and weird stuff like the Mothership. MSI have now dropped the GT series in favour of the thinner and lighter GE series, and nobody should ever buy Dellienware. So if you want a proper DTR it's a Clevo or nothing...

 

did you guys post a 3080 150w benchmarked and i missed it....

also doesnt notebookchecks 12100 score for the 3080 presample mean its within arms reach of a 3070 desktop

 

ASUS hasn't had a serious entry in the DTR space for as long as I can remember. For years it has been pretty much only Clevo and Alienware, then Alienware wussed out with their lackluster crap, so now the only one that can be taken serious is a single Clevo model. And, the Clevo isn't wonderful without a BIOS mod and extra attention and effort given to improve cooling.

 

Asus RTX 3000 series laptop GPU spec:

 

FYI
https://www.notebookcheck.net/GeFor...aim-18-out-of-the-top-20-places.518115.0.html

 

exactly and developers are not using optimization with a 3090 in mind...
this is why i bought a 1060 laptop....games will run at 60fps and look great on medium

 

They're probably right to some extent about those 3090s; makes a lot of expenses more palatable if you push them through the business.

On another topic you know that 13" with the external 3080 that Asus is pushing? Don't recall the nomenclature but you all know what I'm talking about. I would buy that thing in a heartbeat if it was just a little more beefy and 17". Figure something like a 2k screen 17, max the battery out for flight, give the 3080 about 200 watts. Pick your own all over it metaphor. My question here is, "Am I alone?"

 

your alone...ive been on myriads of flights and no one pulls out more than a cellphone

 

Until bandwidth limitations are solved, I'm not jumping on the eGPU train.

Another bottleneck on top of existing bottlenecks.

 

This is quite false, at least in my experience. I have seen many people pull out gaming laptops on flights, and I'm one of those people. To be fair, this is on long international flights, so that's probably why. However I still pull my laptop out on a three hour flight.

Being able to game on my laptop on a flight is awesome. The tray in front of me is just big enough to hold my Ranger, and the palmrest is big enough to be a suitable surface for my mouse.

I would like something like that with an overclockable desktop CPU, and a slim eGPU enclosure that I can slot a desktop card with a blower fan into. The eGPU should connect to the laptop through an Oculink port as well.

 

I would too. 16/17" with a 16:10 panel would be instabuy. All the reviews I've read have also said, surprisingly, the XG Mobile is pretty quiet. It still comes with a slight performance hit like any other GPU it appears. Which actually surprises me, x8 PCIe 3.0 should be plenty. I think perhaps all the benchmarks so far have been on the internal display which still has to travel back across the bus to the panel.

As much as I rage about Dell I'm still side-eyeing the XPS 17 as it has everything I want except frigging DELL behind it. I'd probably disable the 1650 Ti, the power delivery and heat management can handle the CPU by itself well enough. TB3 eGPU + 3080 is still plenty fine for gaming. I just want something exactly like the gram with a 6 or 8 core CPU with some decent cooling. XPS 17 is pretty much it. It's frustrating.

 

Have to admit I may have inadvertently had a peek at the Dell and similar laptops; I didn't really want to go eGPU as I already carry two laptops, backup drives, and other paraphernalia with me and more isn't welcome. With what I'm seeing now though I'm rethinking that. I suppose we still have Clevo to go and it does look like a few OEMs left room on top for a big dog. Although you'd think they'd lead with them as the high end has the biggest margins and I'd think they'd push those first in the current shortage.

 

There's a reason ASUS and MSI are always first to market after CES: They have longstanding relationships with Nvidia which put them at the front of the line.

Notice how ASUS and MSI are the only/first two manufacturers who have dropped comprehensive lists of the GPU TDPs in their laptops, as Nvidia has asked. Not a coincidence.

 

Maybe it's disgusting but it makes sense for me. I'm not really an extreme gamer, and really only need 60fps to enjoy a game...so why would I want my cpu running maxed out if I can use it at 80% and still get 60fps constant at the highest settings while achieving quiet operation. If you have the stealth like I do you know when we run the cpu / gpu at 100% this thing is very loud. To me acoustics do matter. I do use headphones but if the fans are maxed I'll still hear it over the sound of the game which is an unnecessary distraction from the game.

I was just saying we can't expect 3080 desktop performance in a laptop any time soon. I thought Linus illustrated this perfectly...and quite comically:



Maybe next gen or a couple of gens down the road we will see this. But I feel a 3080 laptop is a big fail because it cannot get constant 60fps in 4k in a lot of games:



If I'm plopping down $3k on a new laptop it needs to play these games 4k at 60fps / highest settings. And I would like it to do it effortlessly, with good acoustics / near silent. That is probably at least a couple of generations away.

 

If gaming while I was traveling was important to me I'd just get an as light as possible 15/17" with a dGPU and deal with the jet engine fan noise. Are we talking plane traveling or road traveling? I guess I'd care less if I could just dump it in the trunk. I just never have that kind of downtime when traveling and usually just bring a chromebook to use a browser. If it's a tech conference I'd bring either the macbook or gram. But every added pound = pain in the rear and less stuff I can jam into my backpack so I don't have to check a bag. Never check a bag. I so rarely check bags and out of the maybe 4 times I've had to do it I've had my luggage lost twice.

 

I don't think we're ever getting near silent out of high wattage laptops. Not happening unless there's some massive breakthrough in heat management tech or body slamming the laws of physics.

 

I do it more intelligently, your method is like chopping off its legs. Locking the cpu to 2ghz is too extreme and 60fps is too low.

In lighter games in undervolt the gpu to 0.7v@1565mhz and use a higher speedshift value so the cpu will run at a lower clock when theres not much load but still boost up to 4ghz when theres a demanding load. That way i can game at a stable 144hz with just 60% fans

Having repasted with liquid metal also helps me have far lower temps vs a stock machine

 

3070 desktop card ain't a 4K card. What did you expect? 60fps in 4k with all the bells in the right game is also a hard task for the 3090.

 

4k on laptops is stupid anyway, 1080p-1440p is more than enough on 15-17 inch screen.
Don't forget that Linus used a MaxQ 3080 for testing. The scar 17 only has a 115W 3080 which is barely enough for MaxP but still ha significantly higher clocks:



That extra +300 Mhz core/boost clock can grant you an extra 5-10 fps. Not to mention the higher clocked memory. Add some minimal overclock and you have that 60 fps. If you use a laptop with Adaptive Sync (Gsync or Freesync) then you won't even notice if the fps drops slightly under 60 in huge fights .

You want a gaming laptop which is silent ? Impossible. Unless you enable silent mode and don't mind the throttling and hot components. So far the only gaming laptop I found which was significantly more silent than other was the Predator 17x with gtx 1080. There are machines which can be considered acceptable like the x170 and the new scar, but most laptops are so loud that you can not watch a TV if you have a gaming laptop in the same room running a game.

 

I'll be aiming for a 120hz oled screen when i inevitably get an RTX4080 laptop. Unless Samsung starts making lower resolution oleds It'll likely be a 4k screen.

That said, I"ll likely run 1800p + sharpening rather than native 4k

 

The only reason when I would consider 4k if it's an oled. Oled is so much better than IPS.
If Samsung would release a 17.3 oled panel with under 10 ms response time and adaptive sync then they could have my soul.

 

I'd imagine a silent/near silent laptop would have to be set up like one of those fanless PC cases. You'd need to have a significant part of the laptop's body be heatspreader fins.

The laptop would need to be 1.5 - 2 inches thick (which is the thickness range for a DTR anyway), and have those heatspreaders surround the body, with cutouts for ports. I don't know how effective this cooling solution would be though, it's just a thought experiment.

 

Well this is an enthusiast forum I suppose but there are plenty of us who are mid-range and totally fine with it. It's a hobby to play videogames but not a holy grail type of thing. I read that the consoles in heavy games if they get 4k/60 are much lower quality settings than a $500 gpu so there you go. Even most of them run much lower in practice like 2k/30 from what I've read.

 

Yeah makes sense if you can't justify really expensive stuff for business or don't have or want to blow that kind of cash on that. Mid range will always be what most people use, a la the 1060 being the recommended min in games specs, but I don't take them to heart much since it's all such a name game/sales game anyways. According to "recommended" mins a 1650 or 980 or even lower would be unable to play a lot of games lol

 

Highly predicated on the length of flight and where you're sitting.

 

I departed on the 9th of January and I haven't even started yet due to a COVID outbreak. A lot of people think being your own boss is all gravy and maybe they're right in a big corp; for a little guy like me it means work doesn't have hours, it's not over until it's done, and something like what I'm dealing with right now means I'll be lucky to break even when the dust settles. Not complaining though, I've lost some profit, a few people have died here and it looks like a few more are in trouble. In any event when out on site getting there is just the start, after, my laptop will often serve as the best and/or only means to consume any form of media for what may be months. I agree about the constraints and hassle of checking, I avoid it when on short trips in the states. In those cases I usually only take the small notebook which can go in a carry and is enough as I dont need horsepower for work; just cant be so slow as to annoy. Those kinds of trips however are usually in and out with little down time. That's digressing somewhat though; I thought 13" was an odd choice for an offering that comes bundled with a 3080. Gamer types of the variety that will be willing to drop 3k are going to want more screen where as non or occasional gamers wouldn't want to give up 3k for a 13" laptop with an eGPU anyways. Give it a bigger screen though and all of a sudden you've got gamers who might be willing to suffer a little more junk in their travels. Or so I imagine it, I would make that choice and was wondering if others saw it the same.

In hindsight it's obvious there are a lot of different niches people are filling, was kind of a dumb question as I already knew that. Maybe I was just looking for the confirmation bias I needed to rationalize a purchase? *facepalm*

 

Detailed review of the 150W 3080 on the GE76
https://epicpc.com.au/2021/02/03/light-em-up-msi-ge76-raider-10uh-unbox-review/

 

Great site with detailed pcb pictures. I already identified the shunt resistor locations

 

You can also run 1080p and some others through custom resolution. I was thinking about doing something like that with an OLED so I could swap profiles depending on the game I play.

So far nothing jumps out at me on the GE76 as explicitly worse than any of the other Notebooks we have seen so far, cooling doesn't look like a complete disaster when competing against the nuclear slag furnace that is intel 10th gen. 11th might actually be worth going for unless I am missing something.

 

so basically for laptop 4k gaming we are not quite there yet but 1440p is fine.

krabman, i suppose i was just saying i think i saw one person out of like 20 flights using a laptop...more so while waiting for the flight..

 

Thanks for sharing!

Wow that's weak. Old Witcher 3 can't be run at 60fps in 4k. This is 2021 and that's the top card.

 

An older article but fits well when we know why Nvidia pushed hard for castrated Ampere cards.

Thinner and Lighter Laptops Have Screwed Us All vice.com
The pursuit of thinner, lighter laptops, a trend driven by Apple, means we have screwed ourselves out of performance.