How will Ampere scale on laptops?

I really hope people start pulling their heads out of their butts and that this stupid thin and light trend reverses itself.

Gaming laptops need to get thicker again. Thin and light means these laptops are super flimsy and have subpar performance. You won't get desktop performance from a thin laptop. Gaming laptops need to be thick and tanky. There's nothing that says a tank can't be stylish and flashy. Thin and light is for regular laptops that don't consume much power. It has no place amongst performance laptops.

The weight of a thick laptop also has health benefits. It'll keep you in shape if you carry it around all the time. It's a good workout, especially for those of us who are inactive.

 

Yeah i have a floptop.its thin and light...but sits on a table.

Also its all relative..if laptops have too wait 2 years longer so be it. I personally have 2005 games in my backlog and on average a 2070 is overkill...coming from an average gamer....and average gamers keep the market afloat not enthusiasts

 

Overkill is good. It means your hardware will last you longer.

Although as you said, it's relative. I need high specs since I'm a 120 fps gamer, and I require that fraterate in all games to be able to enjoy them. I do like having significant processing power headroom left over for future games though, so again, overkill is good (within reasonable pricing of course).

 

Thin isn't bad, too thin is the problem. For us this is exacerbated by the fact that we're enthusiasts, ordinary consumers don't know their laptops are throttling and often won't do anything to make them throttle anyways. All they know is it's cool that it's so svelte, it opens up their browser really fast, and movies look great on the screen. I'm not making fun of these people either, I have many friends that fall into that category. There are also a lot of gamers that are console only, all of my kids and grandchildren fall into that group.

If I'm being realistic I can look all around me and see that I'm in the minority being a PC gamer of the type that would haul around a fat Clevo. Ive had people in security laugh at my laptops; in Istanbul I was pulled because they thought one of my laptops couldn't be real and for a while there it was getting scary.

We are not the norm. Based on the number of laptops catering to us I'd say we've been deemed unable to justify development costs versus putting that investment elsewhere. I don't love that but it appears to be the case.

 

like im an old school gamer but i gave up on dtr and the greatest...i bought a 6970m when it came out and it was tops and lasted 6 years....great purchase but in the last say 6 years games are not that demanding with a few exceptions like msfs 2020 and cyberpunk....but too be honest i might grab a 150w 3080 laptop even if it is thick and ride it out till 1080p low is below 60fps which might be 8 years down the road.....at 2500 cad thats 313 dollars per year and when its getting 12 hours per day usage id say thats a steal

 

If they think there's a market for them they will build and sell them. If they are being discontinued and not iterated to the current generation of tech then there's your answer on how viable it was for them.

 

That's why I'm going back to desktop after Alder Lake -S / Zen4 and Lovelace/RDNA3 drop. Tired of being treated like a second-class citizen and told that my preferences don't matter.

 

I don't think that's the case, I think they have a hard time selling enough of them to justify the cost of building them. Believe me if it was making money they would continue to do it.

EDIT: This might make room for Clevo, if they are the only one left, to be able to increase their volume a little as customers looking for that migrate to less vendors.

 

Feels good to know that I'm being pushed out of the market because I walk the less beaten path...

 

The manufacturers screwed themselves and us, when they decided the "thick boy" laptops needed to be $3k+ priced boutique machines. Remember when a GTX x80M flagship machine could be had for a little over $2.1k if you bought it with minimal RAM/storage? Yeah, me too.

Dell and MSI price the Area 51M/GT76 that they don't WANT them to succeed in selling high numbers.

Even Clevo has forgotten that the ugliness is supposed to come with a discount.

 

we should be happy we have have this tech and these options. when i was a kid a portable mac with a basic card was impossible in anything less than 6 inches thick

 

Seems to me like the options for mobile powerhouses are dwindling, given that thin-and-lights have taken over the market...

 

yeah I feel bad saying I went thin and light supporting the de-evolution of laptops but what options did I have

 

It's the market, it doesn't care about you, you can always start your own custom laptop business if you want a full DTR size with higher power gpu's inside. If you "need" ultramax everything just go with a desktop. Gaming laptops are a luxury, poor value item, not worth it in most cases. But they could be much more transparent about specs that's for sure.

 

Yes, I'm going to start my own gaming laptop company, with blackjack and hookers.

 

hmm like to see that business license' details

 

The answer to the question of the thread "How will Ampere scale on laptops?" is a simple one.

It won't.

Here is how Ampere won't scale on laptops. +200 core, +1750 memory, 1.500V, 1kW power limit.



Speaking of which... 835W showing on the OLED monitoring screen of the GPU and over 1100W from the wall shown on that power meter.

https://hwbot.org/submission/4675106_mr._fox_catzilla___4k_geforce_rtx_3090_21563_marks

https://hwbot.org/submission/4675096_mr._fox_catzilla___1440p_geforce_rtx_3090_42532_marks

 

Andre Marie Ampere would be proud.

 

And this is bad for the performance enthusiasts. More crap will come from Nvidia and the notebook manufacturers. As long they ( the ordinary consumers) are happy, why not screw them a second time? Yeah, why not just make next gen notebooks and hardware even worse? They will probably not see or feel the difference if we cap TGP 5-10W over previous gen. Because most of the customers will still be happy regardless what they buy. Isn't that sad?

The mess continue...

Update 2, 3:27 PM: ASUS is not going to use the Max-Q designation anyway, despite the manufacturer previously doing so in press releases. The article has been adapted accordingly. With that, ASUS follows the line of Nvidia. The manufacturer says that Max-Q is no longer intended to only indicate that it is an economical GPU.
https://tweakers.net/nieuws/177634/...s-van-geforce-rtx-30-gpus-in-gamelaptops.html

Asus TUF Dash F15 Laptop: Ampere with one foot on the brake

Not much faster than Turing. Asus put the slowest currently available GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU into its brand-new TUF Dash F15. Find out in our test what this means for performance, power consumption, and emissions (noise, temperature, etc).

Verdict
However, graphics performance will be a sore point, and we would sincerely advise you not to expect too much. As mentioned above Asus configured the RTX 3070 Laptop at the lowest possible TDP threshold thereby hampering its performance potential massively.

Her you can see the cooling for Asus TUF Dash F15 Laptop bro @seanwee. Castrated TGP will make the cooling look more adequate.

 

I've seen that already. The cooling is fine, its the same one that was used on last gen's Zephyrus S15 with 115w 2070 and 10750h. The problem is the underpowered hardware

 

The only reason you can say "the cooling is fine" is because the hardware is underpowered. LOL. If that were not true and it still had gonads, then the cooling would be inadequate, if it's not already.

 

I mean that's a pretty open ended question, there isn't really a right or wrong answer it's not that kind of question. HOW it scales is evident by benchmarks going forward. There IS a benefit over last gen mobiles, at the same TGP, but good luck trying to find it without going through lots of detailed research. They seem to be relying on the nebulous "boost" of various kinds to make it up, or as a cover from blowback :/

I don't like the underhandedness of it all and ngreedia should be sued for using the same name for products that are vastly different performance levels. That's bait and switch to me, ngreedia just put it all on the manufacturers with their naming and open ended specs. If I sold one of those really convincing body conversions of old fiero's as a ferrari I'd be sued if I was a manufacturer calling it a new ferrari etc

 

It is open-ended. You're right. I thought it meant how does performance scale from the desktop GPU to the mobile GPU. The way the question is written it is actually an incomplete sentence.

When I look at the opening statement of the first post I see this...

...which is how I interpreted it without even reading the first post. But there are lots of ways to discuss it because of the open-ended question.

It seems like everyone involved in a leading or decision-making, future-shaping role in Big Tech is dishonest and underhanded. Their defenders are quick to point out that they are in business to make money. Well that is true and I totally want them to make money and be insanely, filthy, unimaginably rich corporations from doing so (and they are). That doesn't mean they are justified in achieving that through deceptive practices or blatantly screwing consumers for the sake of maximizing current profit and easing the generation of future profit.

 

As long as they put the full desktop chip into the laptop variant I'd be satisfied. I'll be shunting the laptop anyways.

 

Running it could present some challenges in terms of power and thermals. Are you going to power it with something like a chintzy little baby-girl 240W AC adapter? For it to run like a desktop chip it will need at least two of those.

 

The Lenovo Legion 5 Pro will, ironically, have a 300w adapter for a 125w or so 3070: https://webcache.googleusercontent....6ACH6H?M=82JQ001FGE+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=vn

 

It's like they want us to shunt mod it.

 

Yeah I was just going by the headline/title in the context of my post and I think I read the first post/s a long time ago and remember it to be kind of ambiguous lol

 

Dell doesn't price Area-51M much higher than their thin and slimy high end gaming Jokebooks.

The views tell the truth about how bad value you get if you go the thin and light route. Even double up with 2 design doesn't help on the views.


Same was it for the gen the year before. Thin Dellbooks almost of no interest.


Btw... Not too earily. And nice MSI finally get a right hook in their face for their scam/fraud behaviour.


Nvidia forces notebook manufacturers to specify the TGP of a GeForce RTX 3000 laptop GPU notebookcheck.net | today

Nvidia finally intervenes: in the future, notebook manufacturers will be obliged to state in the technical data whether a GeForce RTX 3060, an RTX 3070 or an RTX 3080 is operated with a TGP of 60 watts or 150 watts, whether they want it or not.

Sources)
Nvidia, via The Verge

Nvidia tells The Verge these companies will have to disclose specific clock speed stats and total graphics power on online product pages — all of which tells people everything they need to know about a laptop’s graphics potential, for better or worse.

“We’re requiring OEMs to update their product pages to the Max-Q technology features for each GeForce laptop, as well as clocks and power — which communicates the expected GPU performance in that system,” an Nvidia spokesperson told The Verge.

Btw. Nvidia struggle themself provide proper info

Fixed Issues

• [Ampere] Chrome/Edge may experience random TDR while browsing [3195894]
• [G-SYNC][Edge of Eternity/Hitman 2]: The games experience stutter and low FPS when Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling in windowed mode [200685971]
• Wallpaper Engine app may crash on startup or upon resume from sleep. [3208963]
• [461.40] LG CX OLED TVs (2020) are not recognized as G-SYNC Compatible displays [3244055]
• [Surround][RTX 30 series] PC may display no signal message when enabling NVIDIA Surround [3230565]
• On some Notebooks ‘Maximum Graphics Power’ information missing in NV Control Panel – System Information [200697069]

https://videocardz.com/driver/nvidia-geforce-hotfix-461-51

 

It was giving them a black eye in the media who picked up the ball far better than I expected.

 

Nvidia was forced to go this route due all the bad publicity. It just kept going. If they could, they would sneak away. And the big boy in gaming laptops (MSI) just put/throwed more wood to the fire

 

Interesting.

I didnt expect them to go with the 125w RTX 3070 instead of the 80w RTX 3070 aka Max-Q

 

Well... if it has a desktop GPU chip and the firmware doesn't emasculate it too severely, 300W may be inadequate after shut modding. If the vBIOS has been overrun with fully metastasized cancer cells shunt modding may not be sufficient to correct the emasculation, in which case 300W could be more than necessary. Impossible to know at this point. It may turn out well by accident, if the ODM didn't try hard enough to bugger it up. But, I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

NotebookReview is full of enthusiasts though. I would imagine if we asked them for sales numbers the Area 51 would be lower.

 

I would take my XPS 17 over the A51 every day of the week and twice on Sunday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

There is definitely something to be said for presenting a product for what it really is, versus (mis)representing it to be something it's not.

 

Hey guys i just saw this MSI GE76 RTX3080 from the youtube guy "Geremoy"
https://www.youtube.com/post/UgyjuEhX5DGZQr0wYLB4AaABCQ
https://www.youtube.com/post/UgyhG1mK-ulpSciHAzZ4AaABCQ

 

Fantastic. On level with previous gen mobile graphics. This is what we call progress/improvements https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/18009924/spy/18085455

 

I've had 5-7 lenovo legion users approach me about shunt modding their laptops and my conclusions were all of them are not shunt moddable.

Why? Because they are using the bare minimum in terms of power delivery for their laptops, a skimpy 3 phase when others are using 4-6 phase designs.

Unless their design philosophy changes you won't be able to shunt mod these as well.

 

LOOL,
«Geremoy again!» Seems like he's improved his score with heavy overclocking this time.
His results are 5% better then my average 2080 super (laptop) . His dynamic boost really made ba BIG difference there.

Seriously those results are disapointting considering he's runnig at 130W (115 +15) while benching, but when gaming........115 and maybe more if ....who knows?.

 

No he switched from the GE66 to the GE76,
It wont let me share the community tab so here is the first test vid on it.

 

You are right, he has changed his laptop for the more «powerfull» GE76. He is claiming it is a 150w 3080 + more when dynamic boost.

So if it's Nvidia most powerfull 3080 then it's.....just as disapointing. We are talking 15/20% max improvement over previous gen.

 

Just noticed that the current timespy leaderboard has an ASUS machine on top with a Ryzen. Considering that ASUS currently has no 150W 3080s, I assume this is either from flashing a higher wattage VBIOS or a shunt mod ?

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/18049153


If it’s not shunt modded, which it most likely isn’t, I’d like to see some results on a shunt modded 3080 Laptop GPU with atleast 330W power adapter. I guess it’ll be a long while or I’ll have to do it myself when my m17 r4 gets here. Let’s see how it goes.

 

That score is pretty damn near a desktop 3070. And judging by its laptop model (Zephyrus Duo, 115+15w RTX 3080M), I'd wager its shunt modded but limited by the 240w ac adapter.

A shunt modded GE76 will probably do 14500 timespy graphics when pushed to the limit.

Edit: Nvm, the Zephyrus Duo 2021 comes with a 280w ac adapter so this is probably just a shunt + modest overclock. Until laptops with 330w ac adapters arrive i think 14000 timespy gpu will probably be the upper limit

 

Lenovo is today what Acer was for years. Bottom of the barrel garbage. And, ASUS is right on their heels. With Dell as their role model, there is no bottom to the hole they are digging.

 

Of the motherboard designs i've seen, Alienware's most recent M15/M17R3/R4 have the best vrm configs followed by Tongfang, MSI, Asus, Razer and Hp, then Dell, Gigabyte and Acer with lenovo just having the very bare minimum (less than 10% safety margin)

 

They are all garbage peddlers, merely offering rubbish in varying shades of gray. Depending on what one had for dinner, on some days the feces smells worse than others.

 

Well, the 51M is competitively priced compared to the slim models with soldered RAM, you would never really know unless you looked at the actual numbers. I imagine that request would go well.

"Excuse me, can we have your sales numbers?"

(Terminator screenshot where he considers his responses "yes", "no", "come back later" etc. deleted by an unkind admin without a comment... )

The problem may not be with sales but support costs. The lower power models are probably more reliable, and they necessarily tend to be favoured by the less technically savvy who are less likely to spot issues, pry under the covers, or scrutinise support and demand further remediation. A double win - and now they even "enhanced" their slim products with TCC user-level throttling feature. Users have the option to go to BIOS and crank up thermal throttling THEMSELVES. Evil but kind of brilliant and a great example of what innovation means these days.

 

To be fair, this is an amazing achievement compared to the 2080S vs 2080 "upgrade", and there's that doubling of VRAM size too.

 

A bit of OT, but looking at that RDR video, is the game that idiotic, or is the author of the video an idiot?