New details about Nvidia`s Maxwell

The MSI GS70 has an 870m. That must be the GS60. Curious why they opted for the Kepler version. More heat, more power. I figured those would go to the bargain thick and heavy laptops while the Maxwell versions would go in the thin and lights like the MSI thin and light.

 

Real mess in my head, so in what laptops gtx 860m kepler version will be, so i can avoid them???????

 

So, since I severely doubt that Razer managed to stick a kepler 870m in a 14-inch chassis, what's your opinion on this: AnandTech | Razer Announces the New Razer Blade: 14

 

If only Razer Blade comes with 16GB of RAM, then I might consider.
Offcourse that is if there's no issue with the heat management and fan noise.

 

Laptops with soldered gpus have maxwell and those with mxm cards have kepler. Thats what we know so far.

sent from my Nexus 5

 

Supposedly the GS60 PRO will also come with a 870M!? Same problem there as with the Razer Blade....they "shouldn't be able to" ...right?

from: MSI zeigt Gaming-Notebooks GS60 mit 3K-Display, GT60 und GT70 mit GeForce GTX 870M und 880M - Notebookcheck.com News

 

If I can keep temps under 90C and the fan doesn't sound like a Jet Airplane, I'm pretty much sold on that as my next machine (pockets willing of course).

 

Since the 765m SLI has identical performance compared to 780m.
Is it safe to assume the next flagship Maxwell mobile GPU will have double the performance of the Maxwell 860m? I.e Greater than or equal to 11k at least?

 

The next 880mx will DESTROY the 860m as its going to be a 20nm maxwell instead of 28nm. The 880mx might have double the performance of the 860mx though.

 

I'd even go as far to say that this mythical beast 880MX/980M will be twice as fast as the 780M. Maxwell is 50% more efficient than Kepler and 20nm gains around 50% savings on die area. It's a match made in heaven. It'll be like a portable 780 Ti.

 

4gigs 860m : kepler
2gigs 860m : maxwell

 

@sasuke256

No that does not seem to be true:

View attachment 109833
View attachment 109834

Right now it seems that 860m MXM = Kepler Onboard = Maxwell.
A german reseller said (Schenker), that the 860m Kepler is in Notebooks where you can upgrade to 870/880m and the Maxwell one in Notebooks where you cant upgrade.
Like the Clevo W230SS.

 

*DROOLING*

When will it be out?

 

The potential window of release extends from the summer this year all the way to the spring of next year. At this point in time, trying to narrow it down any further is just plain guesswork, until more leaks come about. I would wager that we'll be seeing it before the year is out, I see Q3/Q4 2014 as likely releases, though I could also easily see them saving it for Q1 2015 considering there's pretty much no sign of competition from AMD in the mobile segment at the moment - it really is anyone's guess at this current time, unfortunately. But one thing is for sure; when it does arrive it will be worth the wait!

 

My wild guesses:
1) soldered 870m - maxwell; mxm 870m - kepler.
2) GS has mxm (even if so thin).

BTW I raise hat to Razer's CEO and designers for their 3200x1800 screen! In this case I believe you can lower gaming resolution to 1600x900 totally without blur effect! For each 1 pixel it equals 2x2 pixels. MSI should immediately do the same and create marketing name like "super double-sided display for both way of using".

 

860*
If there was maxwell 870m, people would have seen it already.

 

I wish you are right.
MXM GTX 870M 6GB - Kepler
Soldered GTX 870M 3GB - Maxwell.

Edit :
Unfortunately Nvidia website already mentioned that it is only on kepler.
While it did mentioned that the GTX 860M have two version(Kepler and Maxwell).

 

well, surely the possibility to lower the resolution for gaming is nice. but IMHO QHD is way to small/fine for such small NBs. if the OS would scale the GUI as well as Apple does it with their Retina books (even if I dislike Apple in general, that tech is just fine and nice!), then okay. but as NBC showed in their test of the Schenker P304, quite a number of softwares do NOT scale so well. which results in ultrasmall icons and stuff like that.

but okay, I would prefer HD+ (1600x900) even for 15'' NBs all the way, too.

 

I agree. I've been saying late Q2 or early Q3, through Q4 2014. Hopefully sooner than later, but who knows at this point. One thing we know for certain: AMD is drowning in NVIDIA's dominance. They may have something up their sleeves, but dang...it looks like a painful year for them, especially when 20nm Maxwell hits the market.

 

I don't know what went wrong with AMD. They had very competitive mobile offerings back in the 5000 series days, just a few years ago. The 5650 was the affordable mid-range notebook GPU to look out for. It served me well for two whole years (until I spilt drink on the poor thing and killed it). By the time I had to replace it AMD was beginning to lose it's grasp with the advent of Kepler - so I went for the 650M. The 7000 series was a fair effort to make a come back, though not enough, only the 7970M really stayed competitive against NVIDIA's offerings - AMD allowed NVIDIA to completely mop up the mid-range dedicated GPU notebook market to focus on their APUs, which can't hold a candle against the likes of the 740M/750M/755M. They have their 8970M (now named M290X) at the top and the APUs at the low end but their mid-range dedicated offerings are being slaughtered by Kepler - and now Maxwell - from NVIDIA. The whole Enduro shenanigans really hurt them as well I feel. They need something new to compete with Maxwell or else the risk losing the notebook gaming market, with the exception of the low-end. Maybe that's their plan all along, seeing how the low-end is the market segment which sells in the most volumes. I have to think that they are cooking up some sort of counter offerings to Maxwell, I can't imagine them giving up so easily on the high-end gaming notebook market. The successor to the M290X now has to stand it's ground against the 20nm Maxwell.

 

They could have added more heat pipes to cooling system along with faster fans while minimizing the fan noise , that's a maybe , we won't know till someone takes off the back cover

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

 

Looks like current Maxwell chips only comes as soldered. Which means the selection of notebooks will be small and the notebooks that feature them are mostly those who build slim notebooks which follow the tradition of soldered hardware.

A bit sad really because I planned to buy GTX 860M and replace my GTX 770M cards to have something to play with while I wait for 20nm Maxwell.

My favorites with Maxwell:
Asus G750JM: It is a real gaming notebook with enough room for a good cooling system. Its no wonder why they jumped on board because they make their own MXM cards which cant be replaced.
MSI GS60 and GS70: Dual fans and crafty aluminum design.

 

Right. My guess is we won't see the Maxwell high-end cards until October this year or later. Kepler still has a lot of profitibility left in it as is shown by the release of 870m and the rebranded 880m -- and nV normally waits around six months between refreshes at the high end.

 

They have the whole game in their hands since AMD isn't even responding. The last time amd did anything significant was when nvidia introduced g-sync and amd said they had freesync which isn't released.

 

Oh AMD was in bad shape already in 2012 against Kepler. With new notebooks with Maxwell and AMD is nowhere to be seen, they are in even worse shape now. That AMD have nothing to counter Maxwell with, no mention of any new architecture or even rumors about it, almost seems like they have given up the mobile space.

We had GTX 670M and GTX 675M (both Fermi) releasing in May 2012 and GTX 680M (Kepler) releasing in late June 2012.

No worries. Won`t be long now that Maxwell have been introduced both for desktops and mobile. It took about a month until we saw mid end Kepler after low end Kepler was released.
I still say June/July for the high end 20nm Maxwell`s.

 

Isn't the GS60 rumoured to carry the Kepler 860m? At least in Germany

Sent from my bq Aquaris 5.7 using Tapatalk

 

Very likely they're giving up the mobile game except for some select segments e.g., low-end where there is logical crossover from desktop chips. They're more focused on battling (surviving) on their APUs and current GPU contracts (MSFT, SNE) and edging into the SOC space. In my view, nV has the mid to high range mobile market for the long term, for better or for worse (more likely for worse for the consumer, of course).

 

It is? Well thats too bad.
That is a horrible chip. I can`t understand why Nvidia make it and why OEMs feature it. I can understand the OEMs want to offer notebooks with MXM cards that let the user have some upgradeability, but put the Maxwell GM107 chip on the MXM card instead FFS.

In that case I`m not sure if I want to recommend the GS notebooks. Maybe MSI GE70 with GTX 860M Maxwell have good enough cooling though, I want to see a review first.

Yeah I agree with this. They do have their APUs, because they are probably selling a ton of those for the low end notebooks. But I wonder about the profit margins there though. Can`t imagine a $600 notebook giving them too much profit.

It will be interesting to see what GT 840M notebooks can do against notebooks with only APUs and IGPs. With Battery Boost and the extreme low power consumption and low TDP, while it completely crush IGPs in performance, both Intel and AMD gonna have a hard time against notebooks with that Maxwell chip. Its a GM108 chip, which is smaller than GM107 so the price on those notebooks should be low.

 

cpu + gpu 17w? are you making a mistake?

 

Nope.

Anandtech pointed out that Battery Boost also clock down the CPU to what is needed for the frame rate. Reduced clock rate for both CPU and GPU, reduced power consumption

17W is probably ideal example under perfect conditions though.

 

I hate to say it, but I doubt AMD can even catch up at this point. Nvidia has been making huge profit and market share gains since 2012, which they will keep applying to better R&D (where they already seem to be far ahead of AMD), which gives better products, more market share, even more profits, rinse and repeat. While the opposite cycle will apply to AMD unless they are waiting to drop a bombshell on us... and that would have to be a nuke at the pace Nvidia is going.

I don't think this is going to end well down the line for the consumer. I hope I'm wrong though.

 

So which 860M is faster? I'm ready for the throwdown.

 

I have rather severe doubts about running Skyrim at 30FPS with only 17W for the CPU and GPU combined. It might be possible for certain sections of the game and/or with the settings specifically optimized for power consumption, but I doubt it will work everywhere and at commonly used settings even with the newest and most efficient CPUs and GPUs out there. In other words, Nvidia is probably not lying, but they're most likely stretching the truth somewhat.

That said, I really like the ideas behind Battery Boost. I've never gamed on battery (and I probably still won't do it), but it has always annoyed me when even in older and relatively undemanding games, the CPU and GPU would go all out to deliver some unnecessarily high frame rate, thus producing a lot of heat and noise. Hopefully AMD and Intel will adopt this idea of being able to cap the frame rate and old games won't draw unnecessary power in the future.

 

I'm betting that they'd be about the same. One will just heat up more and have higher power consumption.

 

I think they should perform the same.
But the Kepler GTX 860M is like having a huge pump going on full speed while the hose only allow so much to go through.

Maxwell GTX 860M have better bandwith thanks to 8x higher L2 cache (it doesnt have to go through the VRAM), way lower TDP and it should overclock better.

I wouldn`t buy a notebook with Kepler 860M.

 

That is basically what I was about to post - that they should give up on high-end mobile GPU's, at least for 2014. They're way behind.

 

So if in MSI GS70 2PE have gtx 870m, which is not soldered, does in MSI GE70 2PE(i am 1 step to order this laptop) have gtx 860m maxwell or 860m kepler????
And which version has more potential to overclock???

 

Damned, i forgot to say that i am also interest in MSI GT70 2PC Dominator and i checked that GTX 870m is only 5% powerfull than GTX 860m. Is it worth to get MSI GT70 2PC??????????

 

Where did you see that? 870m is a 192-bit chip, more CUDA cores, and faster GPU clocks. More like 15-20% faster. The real question though is how much power they use and heat generated and overclock potential.

 

The difference is bigger than that, around 30% faster.

 

I don`t like the new GTX 870M or GTX 880M.

GTX 870M is castrated GTX 680M. It is worse than a GTX 680M.
It have a 192bit bus vs 680Ms 256bit. Sure it makes up for it by running the GDDR5 at higher clocks, but it will create more heat vs 680M`s lower voltage chips which also runs on much lower clock.
It have 8 less ROPs, potentially hurting its performance in games with lots of AA enabled.

GTX 880M is a GTX 780M on steroids. Its clocked way too high for Clevo and MSI machines. Clevo runs in the mid 80s with GTX 780M @ 850MHz. Guess that 880M at 1GHz will reach 90s. MSI machines reached 90C with GTX 780M. I would be highly sceptical about putting a 1GHz 780M in my machine. Thats one factor for the GT machines, another is that they still have 180W PSU...lol.

Personally I would only be excited for two GPUs among the 800M series. GT 840M if you are looking to buy a cheap machine and want to game some but not need high details in the games. GTX 860M if you need a gamer machine, is satisfied on playing 1080p with high settings, and not need them vramped up to the max.
Both of these GPUs run extremely cool, and offer great overclocking potential (1300MHz is possible. Not even remotely possible with a Kepler GPU).

I would either buy GT 840M or GTX 860M, or I would wait the midrange and high end Maxwell arrives. We are at the end of Kepler`s lifetime, they are old and a much better architecture is just around the corner with massive improvements. If you buy now and then watch the next Maxwell wave hit us maybe in the summer and you see 50-100% better performance than current high end Kepler`s, you will regret your recent purchase bigtime. I know I would.

 

The 870m brute forces the rop issue with higher clocks. For those running at stock and considering the price matching with the old 770m i think it's good value.

 

To be honest i find the GTX 850m more interesting than the 860m.
Seems to be an underclocked GTX 860m. So you can overclock your 850m and safe some money. (Of course only in Laptops like MSI GE, where you can choose between both.)

 

Still a GPU at the end of its lifetime that is about to replaced soon.
Unless you need a notebook now, I find no point in buying it.

Maybe its just me.

You are right, also a interesting GPU. Just make sure you get the one with GDDR5.

 

I agree with you, Cloud, on the assumption that NVIDIA releases 870MX/880MX Maxwell this Summer or Fall. But if they're going to wait until Q1 2015, which could very well be the case (as other countries haven't even spread rumors about those two cards yet and they always get things at least 3-5 months before us), then I don't think it's necessarily a waste of money... It's definitely a budget gamers card, though. And you'd be better off purchasing a 680M, lol.

 

When or if a new gtx 880 with a "true" Maxwell architecture comes out. Will it just be faster or also better managing the heat, compared to the Kepler-based 880 tha has been released now?

 

It's impossible to be certain, but most likely it will be both faster and more efficient (so less heat). Keep in mind that Maxwell is Nvidia's first architecture that was designed from the ground up with laptops first and desktops second:

 

It seems that there are two different 870M chips. One with 6g vram and another with 3gb. Has this been discussed anywhere?

Other than the 3bg difference in vram, there must be something else thats different between these two for the 870M to suddenly be viable for the 14' razer and GS series laptops.

 

Well atleast wait until summer to see if some rumors surface or if we get actual updates from Nvidia before making your move, I say.

There is a GPU conference in late March, where Nvidia might enlight us on progress made on Maxwell.
GPU Technology Conference | GPU Technology Conference