No more overclocking on Nvidia mobile GPUs

Honestly, Luna was out of line with the insults and looked extremely ignorant with the terrible grammar and spelling mistakes.

 

Btw I still think this is an excellent suggestion, but the key is being POLITE. I know emotions are running high, but the last thing you want is for nVidia to blow you guys off as juvenile imbeciles or worse, unleash their attack dogs on you.

 

That's just Luna

 

Yes exactly, use some decorum when talking to these people and trying to express your point. Going on emotions like Luna did and attacking them personally will instantly get you ignored and do significant damage to the cause of reversing these changes.

 

I think what Luna did may have been a good thing. Nvidia needs to know we are angry. But at the same time, not all communications can be based while our blood is still running hot. Instead, trying to have a calm discussion with them and delineating our thoughts, experience, etc. would help. Perhaps even requesting the design of a similar program to XTU, to allow both a registration of the app (them having a better idea of who blew their cards up and are improperly making claims) and give additional tools to test specs would benefit parties on all sides (their sales, our fun, desktop and laptop alike). Luna did raise some valid issues. Now it is time to bring said issues, and others not included, in a formal complaint with possible solutions to satisfy all parties involved. This should include the argument of reasonably foreseeable misuse of the product, which includes custom bios in order to overclock which could further make the card unstable or increase chances of the cards destruction. Some of those claims can still be legitimate against NVIDIA requiring an RMA. Further, we do not know if they discovered a design defect that would not be triggered if the card is locked at a lower level of performance. We must be able to both bring these issues and open a dialogue (some of which they cannot admit outside of the company for fears of legal liability in the future). For that information, I would ask those with friends working at NVIDIA to inquire as to the situation surrounding the decision to knee-cap their device.

Edit: Further, these concerns should be presented to market partners of NVIDIA in hopes that they could place more pressure on NVIDIA to reverse course. Specifically, I believe it was @n=1 that stated he would wait on the purchase of the P750ZM because of this issue. If manufacturers are informed that they are loosing out on a substantial enough portion of sales, coming from all producers using the MXM 3.0B slot, they can exert pressure on NVIDIA to a degree that we, as consumers, cannot. These products are seen as integrated components into other systems. If it is shown that this decision effects sales of their machines that integrate the components, they can squeeze NVIDIA by deciding to add support for AMD offerings (with a potential resurgence of interest in AMD possible spurring additional R&D budget to produce high quality 3.0B cards on a 20nm process) (pipe dreams). But the point remains, their partners can do more than we can. We must establish our complaints on all fronts and also show losses to their partners directly tied to NVIDIA's decision and a lack of options.

 

Even though English is not my first language but I hope they read the email I've sent.

Spoiler

Hi,

This is issue has recently caught my attention that the notebook GTX GPUs are not overclockable because you fear that it will damage and shorten lifespan of our notebooks. Well, me just be clear with you that we payed the money for these products and it is our choice and not yours.

We payed a hefty sum of money so we could get the best out of the cards during gaming and we are aware of the consequences. We do not need you guys to shut us out like that. This is like buying a Ferrari with a prius VVT-I engine. Not only is this unacceptable but also deceiving to enthusiasts.

If you keep this up and not change during the near future, you will lose a lot of customers in the notebook section. I am a fan of Nvidia but if this keeps up, I might be in the Red side when the next Radeon series is out.

If you want to know more on how other enthusiasts feel, then feel free to stalk or reply to this thread here. http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/no-more-overclocking-on-nvidia-mobile-gpus.771169/

I hope you take some serious consideration into this matter.

Good day.

 

They are competent yeah .. Dellienware throttled the power setting in the bios to the new Alienware laptops .. Yes this can all engineers who produce bios and software for laptop manufacturers ... They decide first for a weak power supply and afterward throttles the hardware with bios so the laptop fits weaker power .. It is even better to have cooperation with hardware manufacturers(Intel, Nvidia, Amd) so that they reduce the possibility of overclocking even more. Such as this they can get customers to upgrade their PC or laptop maybe a year earlier than planned.

 

Luna's even more passionate about things than I am, and you all know me and Optimus/driver settings/thin & light/etc.

People do need to rise up though. I sent both the desktop and notebook people an e-mail; I'm waiting to see which reply. I was quite polite, though I made it clear I'm exceedingly annoyed by it.

If this stuff isn't close to being fixed, I might very well just try to sell this machine whole and buy a desktop. I'll just never use laptops again.

 

Seems like this is the only themal paste Nvidia users will be needing from here on.

 

@ajc9988 brings up some very valid points. We need to voice our extreme displeasure to notebook OEMs/resellers, who have the power to exert pressure on Nvidia. This asinine decision from higher up impacts their bottom line as much, if not more than, Nvidia itself, who will still rake in record profits as long as they don't pull the same stunt on their desktop GPUs. Why should people continue to buy large, expensive performance notebooks with powerful cooling systems designed for overclocking if Nvidia restricts it? Not to mention many boutiques offer factory overclocking as a selling point. Well, there goes another feature on the spec sheet.

 

Someone mentioned if people return broken GPUs because they pushed them too hard, it's actually the notebook OEMs that eat the cost instead of nVidia. If true, how do we know it's not the laptop OEMs that conceived of this idea in the first place?

 

Because point me to a mainstream-type laptop from HP/Dell/Sony (now defunct)/Fujitsu/Toshiba/Lenovo/etc with a card/power brick/board power allowance that would let them do that. Remember, we've had thermal throttling as well at 92 degrees for kepler since basically 2012; you don't break those cards by overheating.

 

I'm just saying appealing to the OEMs may not help if they're the root of the problem...

 

Laptop OEMs don't eat the full cost! Don't be ridiculous! What happens is you return it on RMA and the OEM corrects the problem by sending a new or refurbished product to you or replaces a component and sends it to you. Those refurbished units that are later sent out to customers, where do they come from? They come from other RMA'd machines that have been fixed by replacing the malfunctioning component. Further, they sell the excess of the refurbs into the market place at a discount. With this, if a product from a supplier is defective, they contact the supplier for replacement. Do you think they pay full price for another functioning component? HA! They send the unit back or trash it, while placing a claim with the manufacturer of the component. The manufacturer keeps a pool of cash on hand to cover the costs (losses) from these manufacturing defects, as they cannot claim this outgoing replacement as a sell. It is a loss of money. Therefor there is no reason to blame HP, Dell/Alienware, Clevo, Lenovo, etc. for this issue other than their increase in costs to customer service and technicians to service the RMAs (which is still a consideration). Those companies want to maximize sells and decrease their costs as much as the next guy, but they don't eat the cost of a components defect.

Edit: This is why I referred to the securities case stemming from the defective GPUs in 2008. They ran into unexpected losses in excess of expectations and did not disclose the problem with the GPUs until a specific time. Investors argued that this information, if known, would have affected their decision to purchase or sell securities during the class period. If you want a case citation, I will get it for you tomorrow. You can read the whole decision of the appellate court on Google Scholar I believe.

 

well, Dell gave overclocking profiles in their BIOS for alienwares, clevo rebranders still include XTU in their official drivers discs/software list, MSI comes with 200W max TDP for all CPUs out of the box (I've checked across three different MSI notebooks all with different CPUs) whereas Clevo leaves the default 57/67 depending on the chip; as well as having special access in MSI Afterburner etc to see their direct TDP etc for the machine etc. I cannot see the enthusiast gaming notebook market WANTING to kill overclocking. The HQ chips make overclocking pointless for the most part, and there is no choice as directed by Intel on that part. Now no GPU OCing at all? Hell, most of these resellers offer out-the-gate overclocking for many of their notebooks.

If the mainstream, low-end/midrange market hated it, that'd make sense, but they barely sell anything half-decent for gaming, so I don't see how people would break it with an OC. Anyone who buys something like an HP for gaming anyway probably has no idea what they're doing.

In general, I can't exactly see the OEMs or even ODMs being nearly at fault, or wanting this.

 

I guess I read too much into papusan's post above:

 

well his problem is that the OC profiles on Dell/Alienware are very aggressive; OC level 1 uses enough voltage/etc to get what OC level 3 does in speed. The point for it as with all generic is "too much rather than too little" so no matter if you have a god awful chip like mine, you WILL get that OC. Which I and others totally understand; but it is true that too much voltage'll kill a chip. Dell/ALienware have gone off the bloody deep end now though.

 

Wow, that's insane, if I want to overclock my laptop GPU I will do so! I don't need them to lock down the hardware like this, we should be free to overclock - they're taking a huge step back here! I think they're doing this for commercial gain so that there is a greater distinction between their GPU models. Overclocking the lower models, especially with modified vBIOS greatly narrows the gap to the higher end models. They better change their tune on this "no overclocking nonsense", it sounds like NVidia are going down the same locked down route that the new Alienware laptop range have gone down!

(Another reason why my next PC purchase will probably be a desktop that I'll build myself!)
(I would have liked your post Octiceps for bringing this to everyone's attention, but I can't bring myself to like a post that is the harbinger of such doom!!)

 

If anyone manages to change the 970m vBios, can you post a small tutorial?

Nibitor doesn't seem to work with 9xx GPUs.

 

NiBiTor hasn't worked since Kepler. There is a Maxwell II Bios Tweaker.

 

Yeah... that's me done with Nvidia until this is fixed. I was about to jump on a P750ZM with 980m literally next week. My main regret is that they've already got my money from the desktop 970.
Any other Aussies here? ManualG kinda reminds me of our beloved PM with his foot stuck in his mouth. "A bug allowed our GPUs to be overclocked"? Seriously?

 

Can we find a way to enjoy the new game profiles of recent 347.xx and also enabling overclock with a mod ??

 

There is an extremely high Vcore voltage and throttled power setting Dellienware use for bios oc profiles on its extreme processor and i7-xxxx. Their oc profile is useless 1x43-2x42 and the rest 4x40. Actual voltage is set to 1.279v. Quite perverted this and also useless power setting's. There is not much software and game that uses only one core today. I run Xtu with 4x42 with 1.223v and fixed power setting. Much better .. Dellienware engineers can neither making a proper oc profile or fan profile on their perfomance Alienware laptops. Same problem applies now to "those much talked about" Alienware 13, 15 and 17 .. Everything goes in a woeful direction. Windows creates garbage and now makes hardware and laptop manufacturers exactly the same ..

 

Alienware, Sager/Clevo, Asus, and MSI all need to push back at nVidia. These vendors *WANT* overclocking. It's a defining characteristic of their laptops. I think we need to set up a drafted letter that we all email to each of these OEMs' CEO's to make a point. We can be the noisy crowd, but they can make the actual difference. Plus it would be good to get an official statement from each of these OEM's on Nvidia's stance.

 

I`ve reached out to a couple of sites to see if we can get some coverage on this.
If they choose to write about it, it will spread like wildfire hopefully blowing Nvidia off their freaking high horse

 

Okay thanks!

Just flashed my vbios and tweaked core and memory clocks as they were in msi before the driver update. Guess that's the only solution we've got.

Next time, I clearly won't buy a notebook with nvidia gpu.

 

Wasn't super obvious. ;P

Canada does not allow refurbished parts when fixing computers, it must be new by law.

 

So maybe a stupid question here...but here it goes:
Wouldn't it be possible to just create a custom .ini and just use a desktop driver or is it not compatible?

 

this will get cracked, and we will be there to spread the word all over the internet, INCLUDING nvida.com's -f-o-r-u-m-s- ( site wont lets me type the word after .com's)

 

First article is up. Lets hope this blow up in Nvidia's face

http://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/2...bile-gpu-overclocking-with-driver-update.html

 

Just read through the thread and the one thing I thought of through it all...

Poor Brother Fox!

I noticed he hasn't chimed in on this thread yet, maybe he's still howling at the moon over the news. 1st AW lets the man down and now Nv kicks him in the jewels.

 

Come on red team. Seriously anyone support NVidia after this? I was thinking 980M next now I am praying amd will bring something to the market....

Will my 680M now also be locked to stock clocks if I update drivers?

 

good work cloudfire, keep it up

 

Just hang on 'till Q2.

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/nvidias-stock-rallies-after-profit-sales-beat-2015-02-11

just in time
good strategist

 

Why?

 

I see a couple of uneducated desktop owners come with the usual "So what, mobile GPUs were never meant to overclock anyway. It will melt" "Not much gain anyway" etc ib the comment field in TechPowerUp article.

Thankfully svl7 is there to throw 1500MHz (omg) 970M overclock from his M15x in their face lol.

I think people who say Nvidia stopped overclocking on mobile GPUs to be able to sell overclocked rebrands, may be right. Nvidia's greed that made this happen.

"We did this to make a safeguard"
They had temperature protection since ages ago that shuts the system down if too much heat. And they have disabled the only one that can really kill the GPUs anyway: Voltage

 

hahaha, nice, gotta love svl7 and his trusty ol´ m15x

omg, those desktop monkeys really have NO idea whats going on in the mobile gaming world...

i bet i could smoke their desktop rigs easily with my dark knight...

 

I can tell you where to get an unlocked OC vbios if you dump your stock vbios and send it to me (if you have the 6GB version). Use GPU-Z to dump the bios.

I just like having stock bios around for security... and I forgot to dump in my excitement to flash!

 

I have until two weeks from Friday for my freedom, at which time I am willing to write a form letter that we can switch out the name of the company and individual's name for universal use (done it for contracts, why not this). If you are willing to wait that long, I can do it. I'd ask of you all to gather what you would like incorporated. This can include harms to OEMs, the desire for upgrading, the harms to the consumers, etc.

 

Also agrees with my statement, that is still a cost to NVIDIA on replacement of the part. Is that under CISG though, the default rule unless changed by contract agreement to the UCC which contains the perfect tender rule and this being a latent defect in the silicon.... anyways, I digress...

 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=6871554916816068241&q=768+F.3d+1046&hl=en&as_sdt=4006
This is the appellate decision for NVIDIA's security case.

 

Petition up: https://www.change.org/p/nvidia-re-...geforce-equipped-notebooks?recruiter=20925400

 

More sites follow

http://news.softpedia.com/news/NVIDIA-Disables-Mobile-GPU-Overclocking-Without-Warning-472953.shtml

http://www.overclock3d.net/articles...es_gtx_900m_overclocking_with_driver_update/1

http://hardocp.com/news/2015/02/12/...rom_laptops_maxwell_based_gpus63#.VNzOrC483K9

http://tech4gamers.com/nvidia-accid...maxwell-mobility-architecture-latest-drivers/

Signed it

 

I like where this is headed.

Can't quite grasp nVIDIA's reasoning for this though.

 

Petition signed.. I'm absolutely disgusted with NVIDIA to say the least... I didn't spend about £450 to buy this 970M and have OCing locked down.. Absolute joke! Can @svl7 , @johnksss , @Prema or someone do something about modding these drivers.. No doubt there will be a lot of us willing to donate if you can get overclocking renabled...

 

Ridiculous.

I don't tend to overclock my laptops (if anything, I undervolt to keep temperatures in check). I do tend to overclock my desktops, as that keeps my upgrade costs in check (buying a $50 watercooling kit is cheaper than a CPU+GPU ugprade).

But I'm a strong advocate for the right to do whatever I please with MY machines (you know, hardware I paid for). I'll be the judge of whether or not I'm willing to risk my warranty in the process.

 

He is very buisy giving Nvidia what they deserve on the Geforce forums
https://forums.geforce.com/default/...s/gtx-900m-overclocking-with-347-09-347-25/7/

I suggest more people sign up in that forum and give them your honest opinion if you havent already. Chances are they are not reading this thread at all but are monitoring their own forum carefully right now

 

Although these days tablets outsell both laptops and desktops combined, it would seem the number of mobile cards Nvidia is shipping should be a lot higher the number of desktop cards.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/...forecast-for-tablets-laptops-and-desktop-pcs/

Maybe some exec saw this as a way to boost the appeal of rebadged cards and mistakenly thought they could quietly slip this in the driver update without stirring up a poopstorm.

.

 

Signed it!