*Official* nVidia GTX 10xx Series notebook discussion thread

It's a mess, and it causes so many problems, it would spin your head if I listed all the issues I've encountered helping people online with Optimus problems.

Suffice it to say that if you don't have the ability to switch off the Intel iGPU, then the dGPU goes through the iGPU for all internal display operations.

That means the iGPU controls the color, the refresh rate, and the signaling to the internal display.

The dGPU then is disconnected from the internal display, and has a very limited range of features it can access.

G-sync doesn't work, Color setting through the dGPU tools doesn't work, VR response time suffers to the point the developers of VR hardware won't support laptops using Optimus, Linux is often broken and can't be fixed, the list goes on and on.

Most people that get an Optimus laptop are initially happy. Everything seems to work, and they keep it - letting the return window expire.

Then the first problem shows up.

The CPU is overheating and throttling when doing rendering, why is that happening? Because the iGPU sits on the same carrier as the CPU and is stealing power and thermal range from the CPU.

But, I have the dGPU set as my app's active GPU. It doesn't matter, all video signals go from the dGPU *through* the iGPU - heating it up, dropping the performance range of the CPU.

When Asus went from dGPU only to Optimus in their G750 range, all of a sudden the CPU's were overheating - 10c hotter - under the exact same load on the exact same CPU - and that new model had better cooling advertised - not quite enough apparently.

Then there is the application support. Some applications won't accept switching between iGPU to dGPU, so your expensive dGPU goes unused for many of your legacy - and new! - applications.

Like VR. You have a VR ready dGPU, but now there is a iGPU blocking the way. Sigh.

Also, they don't tell you this, but Windows apps - the OS and all it's graphics - including their browsers - only support iGPU when it's activated - you can't push Windows onto the dGPU - which makes for laggy everything.

And, because your browser is going through the iGPU, it heats up the CPU hotter than just from CPU usage, raising the CPU temperature, in some laptops causing the fan to go on and off, on and off, its said to be very annoying.

And, if you have Optimus, there is nothing you can do about it.

Optimus, and the on CPU iGPU - both bad ideas that won't go away.

Intel should offload the iGPU onto a support chip, and free up the CPU's to run unfettered.

Unfortunately the new CPU's on the way double the iGPU area. Further reducing the power and thermal head room for the CPU - TDP down from 47w to 45w, soon to 35w.

What a mistake.

 

Yeah, its a lot to read and take in all at once

The internal display is the iGPU hostage, the external displays run directly to the dGPU, mostly

There are some laptops that have only one dGPU wired external connector, the other(s) connect to the iGPU.

So be careful to research just what external connectors connect to the dGPU if your laptop has Optimus - download and read the manual before buying a new laptop - always a good idea.

 

So laptops without Optimus have their displays connected directly to dGPU, and iGPU isn't used at all?

 

Yes and it's bliss. I'll never buy a gaming machine with Optimus again.

 

Guys, let's focus on 1000 cards. Too many discussions on 900 cards, which have been addressed in the old thread.

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Well, yes and no.

The "good" ones completely ignore the iGPU, and don't wire it up or power it up - thank goodness that can be done.

Those don't switch between iGPU and dGPU, because the laptop isn't even aware there is an iGPU on the CPU carrier.

So there is no impact from the onboard iGPU to the CPU thermals or available power.

The other "good" ones have a matrix switch to change the internal display connection between the dGPU and the iGPU - like when you want to reboot to run on battery - switching requires a reboot BTW.

AFAIK, once the iGPU is switched out, and the dGPU is running, the iGPU isn't powered on and doesn't impact the CPU.

But, I still prefer the completely disabled iGPU - dGPU only model - it's why I buy a high-end GPU laptop. I don't buy it to run on battery.

 

On the other hand, it's a huge boon for battery life if the dGPU is sleeping, or in some cases, if you don't need a dGPU at all. The problem is there's no way Intel is going to create two classes of CPU's, one with an iGPU and one without. The number of PC's sold that only use an iGPU is BY FAR more volume. The cost wouldn't be worth it.

You can be assured that if you buy a laptop that can use G-Sync, you are buying one that doesn't use the iGPU. That's pretty much a sure fire way to do that if you want.

 

Yeah, sure. But it's good to know i can switch to iGPU in case i need longer battery life sometime.

 

I hear you, I've used my GT80 on iGPU, and it's been useful - once

But, I could have used my tablet or phone to do the same work mobile. I wanted to test the GT80 on battery.

If you need a Windows device that has long battery life, don't get a gaming laptop alone, get a 2in1 or other long battery life focused device, and use both.

Leave the gaming laptop for gaming while plugged in and mobile.

If you must have battery life on your high-end gaming laptop, get one that switches instead of Optimus.

 

I don't know anyone that really moves around with a 15in laptop. Except myself.. I will move it to my lap from the desk and game on my couch. Or take it to my bedroom for Netflix. Laptops that can game better than igpus are epic. I beat like 4 levels of crisis 3 on my lap at max settings mind you ultra and fxaa..

 

So basically, if I get a laptop with G-Sync, I don't have to worry about Optimus?

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Battery life is important for me since i will take it to the college. I will probably buy an MSI GE62 Apache Pro laptop. I was glad it had optimus so I can squeeze a bit more battery life from it. Now I am kinda worried. But I think it all just comes down to what you need. I need the better battery life.

 

Some say that, but I would double check, especially with a new generation, it's too early to know everything about the new hardware, we are learning new stuff every day.

Intel / Nvidia keep changing the rules, so at some point G-sync might work through Optimus, and I'd hate to tell you outdated info and have you end up with an Optimus laptop.

All the MSI laptops below the GT73 have lost a lot of functionality, moving from the CM236 chipset to the HM170, dropping down to only 1 M.2 and 1 2.5" storage slots, including losing the MUX switch in the GT72, so AFAIK all the MSI laptops below the GT73 are now Optimus, or dGPU only.

The reason I mention this is that all those new MSI's have a VR following the model number, and advertise VR support.

AFAIK VR still doesn't like/support Optimus, but that could have changed in this new generation too.

If it was me I would check it out in person if I could find one locally, wait for a review that gives the users POV details, or find someone here in the forums with one and reporting in one of the threads, and if they haven't answered the Optimus question yet, ask them.

You can't always trust the product pages, as at MSI / Asus they apply to several models, with different GPU's and other configurations.

Confirm through an independent source.

 

It's all relative to ones needs. If it had a MUX switch instead of Optimus, you could just reboot into iGPU mode and run on battery cleanly without Optimus getting in the way.

Check out other makes, like Clevo, Asus GL502VM/VS.

I hope you have a good experience with whatever you end up getting

 

A lot of the clevo laptops on xoticpc advertise G-Sync and Optimus. So I'm concerned things have changed.

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Which models? Links?

Time to dig in and see what's what, and what's changed.

 

Those have mux switches. @Prema confirmed this.

 

Those? He didn't list the models yet

So *none* of the Clevo laptops have Optimus??...

Maybe we should all sync up on the models that @SirSaltsAlot and you are thinking of - and make sure they are the same

Why would it say "Optimus"? (links?) That's a very different thing, and not the same as a MUX switch.

 

If the description of a laptop doesn't say anything about Optimus, is it safe to assume it doesn't come with it?

EDIT: I read again, the GS73VR comes with optimus :/

However, MSI advertises their new laptops as fully VR ready and whatnot, maybe it can be disabled?

 

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np8153-clevo-p650rs.html

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np8173-clevo-p670rs.html

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np9872-clevo-p870dm2.html

All list as having Optimus under the specs tab. The p870dm2 has doesn't have G-Sync so I don't know about that one.

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So they're just being lazy and listing them as having Optimus?

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Yeah, that's why we wait for reviews

These days if it says Optimus I assume it does, if it doesn't I don't know for sure. But, it's possible they mean MUX, apparently.

So we wait for a hands on report.

 

Odd, the XoticPC listing says Optimus, MSI's Product page doesn't, and this overview of 1060 laptops doesn't say the GS73VR has Optimus... where do you see it say that?

http://www.xoticpc.com/msi-gs73vr-stealth-pro-025.html

http://www.ultrabookreview.com/11702-laptops-nvidia-1060/

https://www.msi.com/Laptop/GS73VR-6RF-Stealth-Pro.html#hero-overview

 

All of them say Optimus, including the P870DM2, under Specifications tab. Odd to call that out and not have it, but have a switch MUX instead. If it does have that, then VR would be aok.

 

I contacted XOTIC PC, when I receive an answer I will report back.

EDIT: Checking that second link you, uh, linked, I'm reading that the GS73VR does come with g-sync. Even more reason to believe that if it does come with Optimus, we may disable it. I am yet to find a review tho.

 

Question for the Optimus experts: if a laptop has Optimus, can the laptop still take advantage of G-sync by being connected to an external display that supports G-sync? I presume that answer is "no way!" but I thought I'd ask.

 

The desktop CPUs don't support Optimus period so the the P7 and P8 definitely don't have onboard video in any form.

Prema said the P6 machines use a mux switch.

G-Sync won't work unless it's hooked up directly to the display so it either has a mux or it doesn't have the iGPU at all.

As long as the dGPU is hooked up to the port youre using, G-Sync should work fine. The TB port, for example.

 

Right, they gotta check to see if the external port they want to use has a direct dGPU connection, not all do in all laptops.

We knew about the desktop CPU models, I was assuming he meant the ones that have an iGPU

What about those? They are saying Optimus, but even the desktop CPU model says Optimus. Kinda of a big oops.

Makes it tough to know whats what when bogus information is strewn throughout the product pages on these vendor sites.

 

In the Clevo site, the P6 series are mentioned to have an Intel HD 530 and support M$ hybrid graphics or just dgpu. Nothing is stated on the P7 and P8.

 

That's not Optimus, it's the mux switch switch method. Note the lack of the word Optimus.

BTW, why did you name the jpg uploaded as "Optimus"?

 

Oops sorry, I was thinking of optimus and that was what I had indeed typed on the file...

 

Please note that you can have both MUX and Optimus.

That's what my oldie Thinkpad W520 has. In BIOS you can select: 1) iGPU, 2) dGPU, 3) Optimus (iGPU + dGPU).

I believe those new Clevo models come with a similar physical wiring, allowing them to either have full dGPU mode (required for G-Sync to work) or having "MS Hybrid" mode which is kinda Optimus under another name.

Then, of course, there is another question to which GPU are external display ports connected. You can have Optimus but have HDMI / mini-DP connected to dGPU. Or sometimes some ports are connected to iGPU and others to dGPU, in the same chassis.

I do wonder how all those new "VR-Ready" MSI models are wired up. At minimum, they must have at least single port wired to dGPU, otherwise they wouldn't be able to advertize VR support. It's kinda fuzzy, as on MSI website they don't advertize Optimus, but then in the PDF manual they mention Optimus as supported.

 

MSI has traditionally used mux for their machines, often with a physical switch. I mean my old M17xR1 has a mux to switch between the onboard Nvidia chip, the SLI 260Ms or both with Hybrid SLI on ancient drivers. It's definitely not a new concept, Clevo just never bothered until the P6 series.

 

Some more info on those new Acer Predator models with Pascal GPUs:

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Acer-G...dator-17-G9-793-mit-GTX-10-GPUs.172094.0.html

 

The reply I got from Mysn.co.uk regarding Optimus stuff. I had asked about Clevo P670 for the setup below.

http://mysn.co.uk/shop/xmg-p707-gaming-laptop.html#!prettyPhoto

1/ MSHYBRID is in essence Optimus

2/ dGPU mode disables Optimus. It routes the Nvidia dGPU output directly to the internal LCD panel, meaning that the laptop will then not use the iGPU nor will it pass any signal through the iGPU. This direct connection between the Nvidia dGPU and the LCD panel is actually required for G-Sync to work. You can switch this at any time, but must restart the laptop in order to activate the change in setting.

No matter which of the above settings are selected, all the external display outputs in the laptop are directly connected to the dGPU.

 

does anyone have any benchmarks for the 1080 yet?
i wanna compare to these....

http://www.eurocom.com/ec/benchmark(110)ec

 

Which of those new MSI GS series with the GTX1060 comes with a 120Hz panel?

 

The GS73VR Stealth Pro 025 does but it doesn't say anything about Gsync. http://www.gentechpc.com/MSI-GS73VR...cal-GTX-1060-p/msi-gs73vr-stealth-pro-025.htm

 

Thanks, that's a good reply. Answer #2 leaves me with a question.

Is it really Optimus when the iGPU is active? What I mean is, under Optimus it switches GPU requests automatically between the iGPU and dGPU, which allows many things to function as expected on the dGPU, without being dGPU only.

On battery you want everything to go to the iGPU, and nothing to be sent to the dGPU, in fact for best battery life you want the dGPU to be powered off / disabled to the lowest power state.

So is it really Optimus, or the more desirable mux switch? It sounds like it has the switch, but they are calling the iGPU mode "Optimus" - I am hoping it really runs everything on the iGPU in the iGPU switched mode, and doesn't really use the dGPU.

Do you mind asking for clarification?

 

I'm having a doubt about this Optimus thing on how it's implemented in the new machines, According to Prema the Pascal needs eDP while the iGPU can't take 120Hz and these new machines like GT73VR and all how are they using the Optimus with 120Hz / GSync panels...Here with M17x R4 and AW17 120Hz then no more optimus since the iGPU can't take that panel, could anyone care to explain how this is working is it the new Intel driver that's been updated to work with 120Hz ?

 

With Optimus, iGPU is always active and dGPU gets switched on just when needed (at least in theory).

dGPU is not connected to internal display but instead there is something called CopyEngine which transfers rendered frames from dGPU memory into iGPU memory (which in fact is just normal RAM).

AFAIK Optimus used to have dedicated HW circuits, but today it's supposed to be software-only thing (hence e.g. Macbooks can use Optimus for connecting eGPUs when running Windows, even while Macs themselves don't use Optimus).

Now, these new Clevos I presume got extra hardware connection between dGPU and internal display, together with multiplexer (MUX), which allows to switch from where the internal display gets the signal: a) dGPU, b) iGPU.

If MUX is toggled to dGPU source, iGPU gets completely bypassed.

If MUX is toggled to iGPU source, then you should be able to get either pure iGPU or Optimus / MS Hybrid mode, depending on whether dGPU gets turned on in addition to iGPU.

 

@jellygood

That's my question exactly. What is active when switched to iGPU? Just the iGPU, or is Optimus sharing between the iGPU and dGPU active.

The iGPU mode for me is really only for running on battery. I don't want my dGPU power up and actively available in any form, that defeats the purpose of "Battery Mode".

I'm interested to see what Mysn.co.uk answers

 

Hahahaha I accidently sent sager a question about an asus laptop on xoticpc. Super awkward.

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It's easy to do, with all the new laptops, over 100, from all the vendors

How would one send Sager a question on XoticPC? Aren't they all XoticPC staff?

 

I sent the question to sager staff at sager.com. xoticpc is its own seperate vendor.

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Well group. I just got my Asus GL502vs in. I immediately downloaded Steam, MSI afterburner and No Mans Sky (since I'm away from home and no good wifi available).

This. Thing. Runs. HOT.

At 1080 maxed out, my GPU had gotten up to 94c quickly. I made sure my drivers were up to date, and they were, then I went back in game and the GPU temp stayed at around 91c. Granted this is plugged in with no cooling pad but it's sitting on a desk top. Perhaps I am doing something wrong but I don't think so. I'm versed in computer gaming but not ultra versed in laptop language. Me thinks this 1070 may be too much for this 15" form?

 

It's not you, sadly it's Asus...

Look at the dimensions of the msi gt62vr, way thicker Than the gl502 and still runs hot

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What's the temperature target in Afterburner? Is it actually higher than 91 (or 94) C? Does using a lower temp target help?

 

Really appreciate you sharing your experiences with it.

I think we all expected it to be hot - it's probably the thinnest and sleekest notebook with a 1070, and that almost always has a price tag.

Could you please share your impressions on the noise level when gaming?

Also, how do you like the GSYNC screen?

Edit: I would also love to hear how the battery holds up (esp. since GSYNC means no Optimus) and whether there is a switch in the BIOS or elsewhere to turn Optimus off/on.

 

The target temp is greyed out in MSI afterburner.

The noise isn't THAT bad to be honest. Granted I have an air conditioner behind my head running, and with the games sound on I can just hear a forceful woosh sound. I would say it sounded lower than my 980 ti gigabyte G1 when I had it. The screen is very pretty. Very sharp. Gsync I can't really get a feel on since NMS isn't completely smooth on this system. It's jumping issues are present in the laptop even though I have the game installed on my SSD. I will say that pop up box text are blurry. Not too bad but for instance the text on this site is eye bleeding sharp but on steam, not so much.