*Official* nVidia GTX 10xx Series notebook discussion thread

Well seeing the new Clevos and msis it looks like they weren't designed with HBM in mind, so another change is in order.

 

They all knew all this way in advance.

Not a one of them put out a press release saying:

"Hey guys!, what do you want - Pascal MXM GPU upgrades that fit the power/thermal profile of your laptops?

Or, do you want "mini-Chernobyl" Pascal MXM GPU's that not only won't work in your laptop that needs an upgrade, they won't even run less than 90c at 100% load in our newly designed laptops?

If given the choice with information explaining why and to what degree of performance we are talking about, I think we would have chosen both.

Compatible Pascal MXM GPU's for our upgrades, and higher performance Pascal MXM GPU's for the new laptops.

We weren't given the choice, we were left standing out in the cold and rain, wondering why they Screwed Us Over.

So many owners are stunned by this loss that they are pouring more money into those companies through blind loyalty and ignorance.

Instead of sitting back and saying, screw us? No, Screw You!! I'm not giving you any more $$$$'s until you make what you already sold us work as expected.

If Acer wants to service their laptops with the soldered on components, let them deal with it as the wish. Let them all take their hits that way if they like.

 

Not quite. They centered the die, or close to it, expanded the size, moved the screw holes, etc. To place the hbm integrated die, you just have to fit it in the same area as current die and memory. This may be why spacing some on the both sides made sense. This, plus the other components, can fit with little change except for maybe q new heatsink which didn't account for contact on the hbm (although some may be able to use new thermal pads for contact, although whether it will deal with the extra heat well is in question. MSI 1080 I have more questions about, even though it is a nice looking card. The MSI 1070 was to almost bridge a gap, but it will not do anything with hbm in that size most likely...

So please tell me again how it didn't consider it on board manufacturing, noting that heatsink compatibility may be an issue...

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Meaker once said that he thinks HBM would work if they rotated it a bit for MXM.

 

That I would believe, leaving enough space for the screws and the rest of the card roughly the same. Something like that may be why 1070 has just a little more space on that board... Thank you for that point...

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Why are you trying to work out fitting HBM2/3 onto existing MXM physical GPU's? It's not going to happen.

If they couldn't even get a slightly hotter GPU to work in the same specification, why do you think they will work to make HBM2/3 fit??

It's another perfect opportunity to make another "little" adjustment to make the MXM GPU's incompatible with previous generations.

If they get HBM2/3 to "fit", it's not going to "sit" in your current laptops

Oversized HBM trying to fit...

Spoiler: Whadya think its gonna be?

 

Hbm has a smaller footprint than gddrX. Unfortunately, it must be on the die to work, thereby adding space inside the frame. Now, it runs hotter, but looking at the fury nano, completely doable. Mxm is pcie3.0, able to handle the information to and from the cards... So, just saying it won't happen means nothing. Nvidia wants even cheaper R&D, and being able to produce the same dies and only adjust clocks really would change the profitability, especially without reference card design for mobile moving forward. So, tell me again why it wouldn't work? If you look, this year is the first year in a long while the flagship did not all shrink, some even getting thicker and heavier, most likely for cooling...

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I don't need to tell you why it won't work, I already told you why it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter because we aren't involved in the process, our current laptops, and even the new Pascal MXM GPU wielding laptops, won't be playing ball with the HBM2/3 "MXM" GPU's.

Our toys will be shelved, and the next generation GPU will be in a whole new laptop.

So new chips as BGA on the motherboard, or BGA on the "MXM" replaceable (not upgradeable) card will be subjects unto their own frames and laptops. Nothing to do with us.

What you don't seem to realize is the math doesn't matter, those equations aren't being applied, it's "New Math" all over again

 

I'll do some more gaming in a 95C room and let you know...But without max fans. 85C/90C on gpus and 95C to 98C on cpu. Everything stock with cpu voltage set to 1.2 for the moment. With max fans, nothing over 80C No extra cooling and the game was Fallout 4.

 

Which laptop are you talking about? And if you were in a 95C room, you'd die before the laptop

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Whaat? What did you say?, I can't hear you over the noise generated by the Clevo P870DM3 12v "Max" Fan's...

 

how loud do the 12v fans get? 50dB? 55dB?

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I didn't say anything about existing GPUs really. I meant it would fit the MXM screw orientation if it was rotated. As in, new MXM cards could plug into the same holes.

Also, mobile 1060 has MXM-B format. And the M5500 is a GTX 980 in pure MXM-B. Also, Khenglish on T|I put a GTX 980 core onto a 980M PCB and it generally works fine and is even overclockable, in a P150EM no less (which I consider a low point in Clevo's lines in the last 7 years or so). Also, I don't expect Volta to be nearly as hot as Pascal is. Maxwell is unnaturally cool, Pascal is unnaturally hot. It's a flip side ordeal. If Volta is even on Kepler's level of heat, we're good.

That being said, I'm not expecting to toss Volta into my current machine or anything nearly like that. Just giving out the points as to how it could work.

 

Opps 95F

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Yep them fans are pretty damn loud! But then so was the game volume so it didn't matter as much.

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New Clevo motto, "We guarantee 80c @ 80db!!!!" <== they have to shout it to be heard over the fan noise

 

Then think of the Gigabyte Aero 14 I quoted - 120dB maybe?

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To be fair, it's only got 1 GPU, and a 45w CPU, so it's not gonna generate enough heat to need the 12v fans.

But, it's gonna need to sing loudly to pass the heat it does generate.

This is the test we need to demand for all new Pascal GPU laptops, what do they sound like under normal gaming on Auto Fan and Full 100% speed fans, and what are the temperatures at both cooling extremes.

It's gonna be the main concerns for me at least, the heat, then how much noise does it cost to keep things cool enough to survive long term - well past warranty expiration.

 

Sounds like my room year-round. Hello.

 

Waiting for a surprise announcement on a new Toshiba line of laptops with 3D or holographic display.

 

What are you guys using to overclock your pascal GPUs? I know we are locked out on (at least MSI) on voltage and power limits but using EVGA precision X GPU Boost 3.0 overclocking offsets seems to almost offer a backdoor to better clocks. I am able to set an offset of +225mhz on the core and BF1 clocks are now reporting 1900-2000mhz with max recorded clocks at 2162mhz and with max temps at 59-61C.
Using the old school offset sliders doesn't allow the card to boost this far and I get a lower overclock. Can anyone else chime in and let me know if you get similar results. So far I am amazed at how far this laptop chip goes. I've got to be getting close to a decently clocked desktop 1060 chip.

+250mhz offset gets me over 2000mhz in game but eventually crashes the driver. Need more voltage me thinks to go beyond my current stable point.

Also discovered how MSI has solved any backlight bleed issues. I decided to take off my screen bezel today and while the outside bezel pops off with a little force, the inside part is actually glued or sealed with some sort of adhesive.

 

Yeah, a 51mm chip (Fiji) at 45º would fit, barely clearing it though. It would require a new heat-sink that's certain. The thing is, anything larger and you'll be out of luck. And this is where it gets interesting - HBM2 chips are larger than HBM1. So that would bring the total size most likely closer to the Tesla P100 (56mm), than Fiji. Good luck fitting it. Some more play with the hole spacing would've been nice (they kept it standard MXM).

No way in hell to fit in standard MXM-B. Rotating the core more than say 20º and you are getting into the connector or the chip would be off from the left side. Like I said above, it requires a full 45º for a chip like Fiji to fit. I've said it before that you can fit HBM on MXM-B, but you need different hole spacing and there would be enough room for the VRM as well.

EDIT: Made a mistake wrote 90º where it should've been 45º in order the chip to sit sideways. At 90º it just switches which side faces North. The downside of late-night, or rather early morning posting

 

Yeah, well Acer needs to get into the market so they can't over price themselves - it's a changing market and everyone is making adjustments.

Acer is going to have the "luxury" of seeing everyone's cards and ante's before they even come to the table, by releasing after everyone else.

Acer can't be as expensive as Asus, Clevo, MSI, because they are new and don't have features like water-cooling, MXM GPU's, desktop CPU, and compact size options.

I think Acer is going to come in to win, knowing that they need to turn around another design in 6 months to wow us again, but this time with more new stuff to offer, with production optimization to assist in keeping the price low.

And, we know they are going to do that too, so to get us to buy in to the first generation 21x, Acer, ya gotta entice us with some amazing pricing.

It's gonna be a beast to carry, but amazing to use when you arrive

 

Remember I did post 3 screenshots of me playing in about 15 minutes of game time in 5 minutes idle and temperatures were well within reason with auto fans 3. So there is always that....


Edit: damn Tapatalk with the double line post....
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Yeah, you're being a good sport about it and all, no complaints.

You did give us all a good hint too, working in a 95F ambient room... I hope everyone realizes it's the P870DM3 that's the space heater keeping it that hot.

Any progress on Clevo/vendor replacing the 12v loud fans with something with a little less bite?

 

Wattage is not going to tell you as much as you think. I don't hit 88W idle until over 5.1ghz on my 4790K (over 100 under load, granted). 4.5 is usually mid to high 60s, what their premo bga overclocker is rated (65W) and hits at lower clocks many times (at least without unfucking the firmware)...

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You are on the wrong formula page again.

This is a BGA slim laptop, lucky to be avoiding the liquid or gaseous state - given it's heat generators vs. cooling surface area and spinning fan surface area available.

That CPU is gonna be lucky to hit 4.0ghz, more likely 3.6ghz.

 

When you take in mind that I hate 16:9 (let alone 21:9), BGA, nGREEDIA, flashy design and generally whatever is considered gaming laptop lately, I actually like this thing and if I had the money (hopefully they wont shoot us with a rocket launcher, although the display alone probably costs a fortune), I would've considered it

BTW I measured if a 56mm chip would squeeze in there, it does, but there wont be space around the holes for PCIe/power/display output/or whatever lanes go there, and I don't know how that would affect it. Since there wont be traces for the vRAM (which make for pretty big portion of the traces around the chip), I guess it wont matter that much. We'll see. I hope that Clevo did their math right, msi didn't.

 

That is not a laptop. It's a f'n desktop in a foldable form factor. FTX lets call it.

 

That's the dream! A desktop that is mobile, lower enough in weight, but not so much that it compromises cooling, etc. I wish they still made the 22" laptop messenger bags...

That's what I was getting at. With some creative engineering, Clevo may have got it right on mobile Pascal for future upgrades (plus guaranteed power with 8 pin on the DM3 series)... Time will tell all tales though...

Let me stop you there. This laptop was never in consideration on bga alone. I love the concept, but without being upgradeable with better cpu cooling and a socketed E/X CPU, it's lost...

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Clevo could have made the design changes on a later refreshed model. Then it would be much easier to understand why they did this change bro. This is no excuse for why they did it now!! And who says that P870 DM3(4) will have the same design when Volta coming?

 

Indeed.

Nice! I didn't see anywhere where you were recorded as being above 2.1 ghz though. Can you point me to a bench or a video?
Even me doing this does not mean it's 2.1 ghz stable at anything.

Yeah, I'm not impartial. At the end of the day, it is what it is. Although i have a lot of noise going on and i don't have to worry about other people complaining about it. So i'm good there.

The fans really aren't the problem, it's the controlling them. Drop them down to say like 85 percent and that would work out better i'm thinking, but 20 percent or 100 is not really a good choice to choose from. And the fan curse seems to be wrong as well.

 

more like a portable desktop than a laptop at that point lol

 

21inch or 24inch is big enough to put an external radiator perhaps

40cm*49cm

 

That is true, that curve and acreage really lends itself to stuff things in it, like these made from an Acer X34 has been used to build AIO PC's, like Maingear's Alpha 32 and Origin's Omni.

https://www.maingear.com/custom/desktops/alpha-34/

https://www.originpc.com/landing/2016/omni/

I thought Acer said there were a bunch of speakers in the X21 too, 4 speakers + 2 sub-woofers, I wonder if there are any front / rear facing in the lid.

 

I'm uploading a short overclock test video for you now. Will link when done. Quick DOOM game play shows mostly over 2000mhz. Max reported clock over 2100mhz. I should clarify not STABLE over 2100mhz, but it does occasionally show above that even on OSD while gaming, and HWINFO64 records it. Still even above 2000mhz and under 60C is still very impressive IMO.

How high are those 1080s stable?

 

That's a symptom of a potentially fatal condition known as FBR Syndrome... Full Bore Retarded.

 

MSI GT83VR SLI GTX 1080 18.4” Laptop Review & Benchmarks


Compare to the GT73VR single 1080 results:

MSI GT73VR NVIDIA GTX 1080 Review & Benchmarks

 

90c and 86c in firestrike with 91c on CPU? At max fans? In FIRESTRIKE? Even the P870DM3 once the heatsinks are touching goes down to the 60s-70s range... laptop irrelevant before it even launched, wow.

I'm harsh and I'm not sorry. Temps are everything, and with Pascal that's even MORE relevant than with previous generations. Don't you find it funny? Overclocking isn't locked except voltage control on Pascal; we essentially have literal desktop cards even if a bit downclocked... but then nobody can cool them and OCing is fully dependent on temps this time, so it's the most moot point.

As I said before, I'm in a 90-95F room year round. I've gotten to the point where, at least at stock (with my leaky CPU no less) I won't pass 85c on any part in generally any scenario I will do with the system (and I'm usually in the 70s range). Streaming, gaming at 120fps in any title, recording video, rendering stuff, whatever. The only thing that'll obliterate my cooling is likely Linpack, Prime95, Furmark and Kombustor; none of which I care about or are indicative of any realistic load I could ever toss on the system. Even if the new system is stronger, if it runs hotter even at the apex of its cooling system in an A/C room, then it's just not worth it.

And note that an A/C room and a cool room are different. An A/C room has cold air being pumped into it; it's more effective at keeping things cool. A plain cool room won't so easily replace the cold air around a system. I've had cold days (where it's raining all the time, or on a particularly cool day at like 4am when all the heat is gone and I still have two fans on me) where I get lower temperatures, certainly. But an A/C room even set to 25c alone (77F) is much much better. So take this into consideration when you look at these reviews and benches they're handling. Places like Linus I know for certain they use A/Cs because they mentioned it before, and I expect many of these other similar style videos to be doing it.

 

It's on auto-fans...please watch both videos before commenting

They both have complete cooling system off tear downs, pretty awesome cooling towers on the GT83VR GPU's and GPU.

 

I watched the full video you posted that I quoted. Did it really not use max? I know they did at one point. And does MSI not ever hit max fans after a certain temperature point? Clevo and legacy alienwares are the only ones I know to not hit 100% without the user manually enabling it (Clevo with FN + 1 and Alienware by using HWiNFO64)

 

By asking if it was with Max Fan's I assumed you didn't watch; you just weren't paying attention.

Asus and MSI both run hot and quiet normally, those numbers are typical when cooling hot stuff, if the temps were sustained the cooling would increase as needed to keep the temps as they are.

You can do custom cooling curves, the video went through those too... so you can have higher / noisier fan speeds and run cooler if you want.

It's going to take more testing and tuning to get a good bead on how the GT83VR performs.

Check out my comments in the GT83VR thread... performance numbers vs single 1080 GT73VR...and CPU Physics scores. Check out their GT73VR 1080 review too.

Remember it's the first GT83VR unboxed, run at stock, it's gonna be a while before we get OC'd tuned results.

 

Yup, you're correct, I missed when he had said auto. However going by the db noise, it was almost max. Max was at 80-82 and one of the sides was at 75-76 for much of the run. Max wouldn't have brought it down by a whole lot. Since the other side was less loud, it means the other GPU simply ran cooler. But I'll concede to that point.

The other points I made still stand however. I guess unless someone like myself or the other performance/cooling enthusiasts on the forum get their hands on one we won't get a good idea. It's too bad I can't check out some of these for myself and fiddle. But as of right now I'm still not impressed, and believe me, I am very skeptical.

 

Yeah, I test / benchmark on Max Fans too, and run auto most of the rest of the time.

It'll take some time, but we will see some good tuning and reviews done.

-=$tR|k3r=- is getting his soon, so he will post his results in the GT83VR thread, as will other owners as they receive them.

It usually takes a few weeks or longer for people to get situated and comfortable enough to tune and post.

I'm not in a hurry

You have been watching the P870DM3 1080 SLI test runs?

They are getting 90c++ GPU temps too. I'm not impressed with those results either. It's not looking good for the "mini-Chernobyl" Pascal 1080 SLI's, at least not yet. @Prema to the rescue

 

Well if any user is willing to do anything as thorough as I would request... that'll satisfy me. End-user repasting included, I also don't generally trust stock paste jobs =D.

I've seen the P870DM3 and I've given it the same criticisms I'm giving the GT83VR. On the plus side, since both Meaker and Johnksss have shown that max fans benching with a reasonable voltage on the CPU at stock results in mid 60s to low 70s for usage with a properly-attached heatsink (unlike the one HTWingNut received) then I'm more worried about an end-user getting a properly-fitting heatsink and dealing with the noise of the max fans setting than the cooling capability. But it won't be overclocking for gaming purposes on the GPUs, and without CLU + a delid on the CPU, neither will that.

I'm probably an extreme rarity on this forum. I consider benchmarking-only speeds worthless. They're fine in a vacuum, but if they're not stable to game on for a few hours in a row, then they don't matter to me. They're nice to show around and be like "yo, laptops can bench hard" and all, but that doesn't help me if I thermal throttle or the driver crashes after half an hour and without the overclock I have to turn down settings, or get under my target fps, etc etc. Since benchmarks are short and there is a break inbetween tests for loading with most of them like 3DM11 and Firestrike, to see such obliterating temperatures in them means that 120Hz gaming (which I do want, and I suspect most P870DM3 owners will want) will be more difficult than one may assume.

If you cannot tell, I very much dislike Pascal. But even more so, just like with the hyper-thin notebooks I spend most of my time bashing for being designed to operate at thermal throttle points, even these big ones shouldn't have had so much crammed into them if they can't handle the heat. So I'm pretty hard on them. I take no prisoners, I hold allegiance to none. I look for and recommend the best, and if the best has downsides then I make them known to people. If somebody gets something on my recommendation and then it screws up for them without it being out of anybody's hands (I.E. like a HDD that croaks in a week, or something that cannot be predicted) then I consider it on my head.

 

Just to heat up the gossip factory: On a german site is mentioned that new Kaby Lake's Desktop Chip will be implemented in the Acer Predator 21x. Though I am wondering that Heise.de is making such a statement while the others do not.

But hey, at least the CPU could be socketed!

Edit: Chip.de is stating this as well as a possibility.

 

<If> the processor could be socketed... Very good!! Then it still remains a lot of questions... What with upgradeable graphics? Will ACER offer upgrades? And will Firmvare be fully locked or unlocked with everything of tweaks available? What about the cooling capacity although 5 fans? Still a lot of questions

 

Seeing how large the heat-sink is, makes sense, still two pipes though. Than again, as I said they stretch to one of the GPU fans, the two fans in the back should supplement the party and I'm not sure but the two large fans have small protrusions towards the center of the laptop. Either that's a dust-free system (unlikely), or it helps the airflow, or my favorite - nothing at all, just an odd design decision They probably realized that an HK, even if it's Kaby Lake, wont do for full blown (let's hope that they got that one right at least) 1080 SLi. The GPUs look pretty soldered to me. Which reminds me, is it known that the GT83VR has 130W 1080s? I looked at the GenTech's review and the shape is similar to the 130W 980/1070 and no power connector as well.

 

Well that Gentech video of 83VR, I just watched it after J95's post at T|I, So as expected MSI SLI MXMs are having another form factor vs their 1070 without power connectors and core position, GT73VR also has the 1080 option where It has this power connector, HW specialist - khenglish has more sophisticated info on the MXM cards across the brands, give it a read if you had missed.

Keeping that aside first the Machine is really damn good and was helluva feast to eyes & ESS Sabre HiFi dedicated jack FTW !!, But a few things to nitpick - the MSI PSUs I mean they fused the PSUs and not allowing to carry 1 at a time, the 870DM3 runs on 1 PSU ofc with throttled performance but hey It can manage single 330W despite a 6700K + massive 1080 SLI, Next is the CPU heatsink, damn they have this miniature fan compared to the UBER massive GPU fans plus the fan is fused to the HS, what did they smoke when they were designing the beast lol...

Next is a bit of personal opinion, Alienware M18x R2 has the best design from the chassis to the Internals, so well made I really miss her. Going forward the 870DM3's Vapor chamber is indeed phenomenal (hit or miss tho) and the MSI's HUGE reactor fans are also cool.

Would be great if we could get to watch the GX800VH in depth analysis too..

EDIT: So the GT83VR doesn't sport RGB led system or any color across the keyboard, the MSI Dragon center didn't show anything when led tab is selected. GX800VH's Mechtag has the ASUS AURA per key RGB led option to mention.

 

How is the GT62VR? Did it ever overheat before or after the overclock? Will G-Sync really completely disable Optimus if you set the GTX1060 as the Physx GPU? I'm planning to buy a 15" laptop and the GE/GS series do not offer G-Sync.
Thanks in advance