*Official* nVidia GTX 10xx Series notebook discussion thread

Not allowing discussion of BGA would be censorship and I find that completely unacceptable. Your right about the bashing and manner of speaking many pro BGA people here are using. Its tiring, annoying, and they seem unable to change. These users should be monitored for violating the rules of the forum and be warned, but at the same time, its just as bad to stop all discussion about BGA vs LGA. It is a topic that has a place here, and people should be aware of it, especially when looking at high end DTR machines costing 2K+ dollars. However, it should not be coming up when people are asking for thin or portable machines.

A "No anti-BGA" rule would be a horrible precendent to set here even though its an annoying topic. Think of it as, "I don't like d***s, but I'll defend your right to be a d***." Free speech is important. However, once they have made their point, they should quit being so redundant. They don't need to reiterate the same point 10 times in 10 pages in the same thread, that should violate a rule about courtesy or respect or something.

My 980 Tis can run pretty much everything on 4K ultra at 60fps (including Star Citizen, Crisis 3, and GTA V) with the sole compromise being AA (which high amounts of are useless at such a high dpi). Titan XP sli would get more like 100 fps at 4k.

What kind of parts are you looking for? Do you mean like gpus etc or like custom parts? Send me a pm if you want.

 

Maybe it's my quotes that need to be fixed?

"no anti-BGA" bashing => "no anti-BGA bashing" ?

That's what I intended, sorry if my quote's were in the wrong place

Will fix it in my post, fixed:

"Can we please have a rule about "no anti-BGA bashing" in general for NBR? The wholesale strong arm tactics for selling Clevo LGA laptops is a particular form of this that is most annoying. The disrespectful abusive posts with the name calling are easy to spot."

Any other edits or additions?

 

GTA V I cant maintain 60fps at MSAA x8 on 3440 x 1440. I like my AA especially on GTA V. I consider Titan XP to be minimum for 4k and SLI is preferred. Honestly, we need to wait until volta for 4k gaming to come to mainstream. Go for 1440p now, its far more mature.

 

Bashing is fine to get rid of. Its disrespectful, and doesn't add anything. But I bring up soldered vs nonsoldered when relevant, and I'd be pretty annoyed to be like banned for it haha.

Just enforce this rule:

• Foul language isn't necessary to discuss notebooks and help people, so it won't be tolerated. Any attempt to bypass the profanity filters will result in an infraction against the user and that post being edited or removed. Using asterisks or any other symbol to disguise bad language is considered bypassing the filter.

They're not curse words, but terms that contribute absolutely nothing. Turdbooks etc. are not contributive to the discussion in any way. Those kinds of terms also tend to be what start arguments in threads in the first place.

@Charles P. Jefferies is something like that acceptable? You hopefully agree that they aren't beneficial to discussion at least.

 

How about keep it reasonable? Like be concise and to the point. Bring out the issues and leave it at that.

 

One Titan XP is less than 980 Ti sli. Additionally I said at the expense of 8x MSAA. Your eyes literally should not be able to notice that. If I switch between 2X (what I leave it on) and 8X I see literally no difference at all at 4K.

 

My resolution is way less than 4k and I still cant maintain 60fps, 980 TI SLI shouldnt be much over than an overclocked titan XP on games. if at all. Its probably 10-15% ahead in benchmarks.

As I said, I like a lot of AAs and especially at my resolution, where my pixel density is around 10% higher than 1080p. AAs depends on DPI, not resolution.

Anyways, feel free to PM me so we dont go too off topic.

 

Try Doom and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. And Witcher 3. =D.

 

@Charles P. Jefferies

It's already clear to these guys what's offensive to others, and what is going too far when "being helpful".

Why they feel it's ok to burden the Mods with removing their posts makes no sense to me.

Act like the adults you are, and treat people with respect, and you won't need to worry about what you are posting.

 

It is the naming of individuals who are the problem and not the actual discussion whether you are for or against BGA / LGA. This defense mechanism use a few on the forum instead of defending their own viewpoint. This naming is already set up as a point in the forum rules!!

 

Doom is not even close, that ones easy. Deus Ex I imagine I would struggle a lot more on, and Witcher 3 is totally doable without hairworks, with it you get around 50 fps.

Edit: I don't own mankind divided, but besides that I believe Star Citizen and the Witcher 3 are the two absolute hardest games to run (that like support sli and stuff).

 

If it's clearly said what is offensive, then why are there so many offensive and abusive posts still being made?

I haven't named any individual's, through their offensive behavior they have named themselves.

Stop acting offensive and instantly you aren't naming yourself as being offensive.

NBR Members shouldn't be made to feel like they need to defend themselves when interacting here.

NBR Members should feel comfortable and stress free in their interactions, free to ask questions, and should not expect to be berated and put on the defensive for their choices.

BGA owning NBR Members aren't wrong for their choices, it's their choice.

Let them be happy with their choices and be free to explore and learn on their own.

 

Doom is well optimized for the most part. Honestly, I feel like if you are turning off stuff, its no longer ultra. I do agree though, the visual difference is very small between high and ultra. I just like to max out everything and not worry about what I may be missing, unless you have insane stuff like SSAA etc.

 

Hairworks is just a weird one, because its nvidia optimized etc. So idk if I'd call it a core feature of the game, but sure call it not ultra if you want. I agree that turning down settings makes it not ultra with the exception of AA which is post processing.

 

People don't need to resort to bad language, although they don't agree with what others think and say about different hardware. It is possible to agree even if they disagree The talk is about hardware. Not a discussion about people have been stupid because they choose differently. There is a big difference.

 

We all don't seem to be having a problem interacting on other subjects, everyone is helpful, respectful, and mindful of others feelings.

You guys work it out together, and we all hope you understand we respect you all and agree with most of what you say.

It's the abusive hate speech, hurtful and abusive treatment, focused wide spread and relentlessly applied that we can do without.

 

Agreed papusan is a little bit abusive

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

It's such that it's not just one person, and it's not all on one person, it's a general attitude that built up over time.

I don't think they really understand just how much they offend with almost every "anti-BGA bashing" post they make, or that it's even an "anti-BGA bashing" post, it's like an automatic spew forth of offense without a second thought at times.

Someone coming in cold and getting these responses are shocked, offended, and many times chased away, or go silent.

 

I'm talking about hardware limitations, while its counterpart rather then complain about my bad English language. This has happened time after time after time again. As well as lot of other inappropriate language about me as well. You find it in the forum, if it is not already deleted. I newer talk ****t about other. I talk about hardware!!

 

The german notebookcheck site now has reviews for two more Clevos, the P870DM3-G and the P670RS-G.

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Schenker-XMG-U727-Clevo-P870DM3-G-Notebook.173373.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Nexoc-G734III-Clevo-P670RS-G-Notebook.172036.0.html

Interestingly, both seem to exhibit throttling :/ Of course the dual 1080 slaughters everything even while throttling Both seem to peak very high in terms of noise too (esp the P670). Both also have pretty poor response times in terms of the panels, and the P670 has a very low frequency PWM (50Hz) at low brightness. Overall, I think I expected better.

 

A slimmer laptop like P670 and other similar will normally noise more duo it's cooling. Its their nature... And P870DM3-G struggling because it's large (grid)heatsink. Something should be done by Clevo. Qc and shared heatsink is obviously a problem.

 

Just testing at minimum seems a little silly, PWM may be used to enhance the range of brightness the display can achieve. Also the signal is only changing by a small amount, 47mV to 54.8mV is a 8.8mV swing and is very different to off/on at 50hz.

 

All of the ones I listed support SLI, though. Well, you need to manually use the profile from 365.10 or edit in the bits for Doom, and you can't use Nightmare shadows, but you get the drift.

You did say ultra without AA, though. Hairworks counts

 

Don't worry my friend, you were not abusive towards people!

I like it how you get turned on against BGA and I kind of support the behavior since it's in good spirit and it's fun!

I actually really like your performance driven spirit, it's quite refreshing to see and I surely want to see you going strong with it, since it's your hobby and your thing!

At the same time, I agree with you too!

We can only come to one conclusion! We just need to be mindful of everything! BGA is bad and we should be bashing it as a principle because it implies no repairs without exchanging the entire motherboard...

At the same time, some people swallow ultra low voltage i7 CPUs that are somehow more expensive than normal i7, but do worse than i3, so maybe we should just try to promote everything that is enthusiast level hardware (6820HK instead of 6700hq to ensure that no one is locked with only one option down the road)

Also as much as it may sound bad coming from me, until I escape the grips of Optimus I'm not happy, so I want socketed GPUs mainly to be sure there's no chance of optimus in there. (no MUX or anything, just RAW GPU output to display and external display)

But then again, not everybody needs or can use those features, so everyone is correct in here!

Thanks for posting it, totally worth a read!

I wonder why the bad response time of the panels though... Maybe they will offer better panels down the line!

 

And, that's the heart of the problem, that thought, that BGA is bad in and of itself.

BGA isn't bad or good, it's an engineers design choice for building a laptop. That's it.

From that thought builds the license to insult and abuse those that have or want to buy BGA laptops, that leads to the BGA bashing and abuse of BGA owners or those wanting to discuss BGA laptops.

Thanks for pointing that out

 

Let me just sum up what you're feeling, with something I've said recently since all the crap about pascal came out:

I think it's time everybody stops shafting notebook users, and notebook users speak out against being shafted (when it's a monopoly there's no choice to take it, but speaking out about it can work). Stop doubling the price of our stuff while gimping it at the same time. Stop locking down everything. Stop trying your damned hardest to screw the consumer out of their dollars; as if desktops don't have enough of that already (let's remind people of the $1750 CPU, where $750 USD equals +2 cores, 4 threads; and which if it hits 4.4GHz it's considered a "good" chip).

This sums up EVERYTHING. Every single problem. Upgrade-ability, death of sockets for CPUs, death of MXM, double pricing for everything, awful laptops screens (we *STILL* don't have a freaking decent 8-bit, non-4K panel with halfway acceptable response times; IPS or not), locked sBIOSes, needing to reboot to enable/disable SLI, etc. I'm not even saying whether or not BGA should exist. I think it's useful for someone who needs some power in a smaller form factor than can be provided by socketed machines (NOT ultrathin laptops, mind). It doesn't mean the cooling has to be trash. It doesn't mean the binning must be bad. It doesn't mean any of that. It has a place, and some people will find it useful, however choice is important. And this whole not using MUX switches is more lazy than not, at this point. I don't see why any laptop with a dGPU shouldn't have a MUX switch, UNLESS the iGPU greatly hinders what the attachable displays would be for said machine (in the past this was true; now apparently 1080p 120Hz eDP is a non-issue) in which case dGPU-only should be the primary choice.

 

Hardware is an extension of the person who bought it. They have their hopes and joy tied to finding a way to enjoy what they bought, or are planning to purchase.

Name calling their CPU choice, their vendor choice, is just as demeaning as name calling them to their face.

Hiding behind hardware to insult someone is still insulting them. If your intention isn't to insult someone, then avoid insulting them by not insulting their hardware choices.

Think of it as if you had a child come up to you to tell you about their new toy.

You wouldn't think to talk badly of that new toy, no matter what you think about it, because you know it would hurt that child's feelings.

You would encourage them to enjoy their new toy, find something nice to say about it and them, and therefore provide helpful guidance from their authority figure.

Hardware choices are a very personal thing.

 

Hairworks is usually treated differently because its optimized for certain cards blah blah which is why I said that, as benchmarkers single it out often but yeah its not true ultra I guess. AA is post processing so I don't count that. Doom I meant I can easily run on ultra, like I get closer to 100 fps than 60. And yeah the ones you suggested are all fine.

 

Ok guys, I have a question.

The P775DM3 with a 6700k and 1080 is a great laptop, but multiple people in the owners lounge are recording 90C+ CPU and GPU under heavy load.

The MSI GT73VR with a 6820hk and 1080 is also a great laptop, and it cools better and has decent performance when OC'd. However, it is BGA.

Which is a better buy? @Mr. Fox @D2 Ultima @Papusan @hmscott and anyone else who can help.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

I have a similar question, but for P670 situation with

6700k + 1080

or

6820HK + 1070

 

Are you trying to create "ThePerfectStorm" ?

 

Whoa

Now if 6700k throttles on me, it's not an excpetionally better option for me, is it?

I don't abuse, I make marketing research to buy myself an instrument and then I advice based on experience.

My experience was bad with optimus so far, and my exact setup did not have enough power for my needs. Anything that fits my needs is golden.

I like that sense of humour!

 

Edit:
Misread

 

There is no Perfect answer, you need to weigh the pluses and minuses yourself.

Buying either is going to have pluses and minuses, but for my use in gaming, VM's, Office work, email and browsing, either is an acceptable solution.

I like having 2+ years of warranty coverage, because that's about as long as I keep a laptop.

Other than that, as long as the noise aspects and thermal aspects are under control, and I can work with the laptop not causing limitations due to noise or thermals, then I am happy.

I haven't had any CPU's fail in any (Work or Personal) BGA laptops, or notebooks, or tablets, or phones, or watches, or anything else.

I have had a couple of DOA LGA CPU's, and more than a few in place failures, but that's because I have worked with so many - statistics catches up and you get some bad ones. I wouldn't count this against LGA, plus by it's very nature you can replace it.

I have had far more power supply, memory, and storage failures than any other computer related failures.

Pick what you like, not what others tell you to like

 

Sorry if it doesn't make sense

P775 with 6700k + 1080

or P670 with 6820HK + 1070

 

Yea my bad. I realized what you were saying right after I posted. I think that decision comes down to whether you want something thinner and lighter, versus something bigger and more powerful. And of course, how much you want to spend.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

No, I mean which has more performance? I need best raw performance ^_^

But if P775 throttles, it could lower total performance.

 

The P775 is much much more powerful. If your worried about throttling get liquid ultra or IC Diamond or something, but that shouldn't be happening in that model. A 6820hk can almost match a 6700k when heavily overclocked, while a 6700k can be overclocked as well making it pull ahead pretty easily.

1080 also smacks a 1070.

 

Well, sorry. It absolutely is inferior, emasculated garbage and anyone that believes that it is has every right to say so. The heart of the problem is people getting butt-hurt if/when anyone expresses a negative anti-BGA opinion. I find that absolutely ridiculous and it smells like an underlying agenda of some sort. I'm all for smearing the technology to the greatest possible extent because BGA filth is a cancer that has absolutely no place and no legitimate basis for existence in "high performance" or "gaming" notebooks. People that don't know any better need to hear that as much as possible. The goal is not hurt anyone's feelings, and I cannot imagine why anyone would be offended. But that's too bad if they don't like it. To say people are not allowed to be critical of BGA is a total Nazi move.

Goal number one is to educate those that will pay attention and turn them against it. Goal number two is to use goal number one to cause financial harm to the imbecile OEMs selling BGA trash after having created a stigma among people that like to view themselves as enthusiasts.

 

Even using max fans? After repasting? I know Clevo has heatsink contact issues in general, however if the system's design sucks that'd be... extremely unfortunate.

If this is the case, and these are your only options, then the MSI would be the better buy if the CPU can be overclocked properly and isn't power limited (I don't know if it is).

In your case, you could get a P870DM2 instead of the P775DM3, opt for the 330W power bricks, and simply use it with one brick. I *KNOW* that machine can hold its temperatures down. Single 1080 and 6700K works on single 330W; I know that because the P775DM3 does it. You could even sell the extra 330W brick and converter to someone else.

 

Spoiler: Optimus-BGA-LGA

The LGA without iGPU is optimal for avoiding Optimus, so is finding a BGA laptop with a MUX switch - and you do get the benefit of the iGPU for extended battery usage.

dGPU is the 2nd best choice if you have an eye on a laptop with a BGA CPU. For me this is ok because I don't often need battery time on my gaming laptop, I have other long battery life devices I can use.

Optimus can be made workable, if not liveable. I have had clients give me Optimus laptops while my laptop for work is on order, and I find a way to work with it - where I get all the experience using Optimus, and where I learned that it's not something I want in my personal life.

I also usually have a client desktop to do things not possible with Optimus until my long term laptop arrives.

Plus I have 10k's-100k's of other computers to work with, so it's not as great a loss for me as it would be for a person suffering through using Optimus as their only laptop to get everything done.

Whatever laptop you get, if it can't run what you want to run as you want to run it, it's not a good fit for you personally.

Spoiler: High End Super Tune-able laptops

While it might be a fun experience for some, the overhead of dealing with a super tune-able high end laptop can be daunting for people the first time they are put in the deep end.

Not everyone has the time or interest to put in the same amount of time we do as enthusiasts.

Most everyone I have ask for help just want to have the computer drop out of the box ready to go, and immediately do the magic they see us do.

That's why Apple wins so often, it's the user experience that matters to most people, not how much horsepower it can lay down.

I think some of the Clevo OEM's have discovered this and are trying to put together some packages of pre-configured and pre-tuned P8 / P7 / P6 laptops, and that's awesome.

It's still more than most people I meet have any inkling of need to acquire.

It's a tough time for getting a new laptop. All the new powerful Pascal GPU's are causing cooling problems and the CPU's cooling is being compromised as part of it.

It's going to take a while to shake out. New models will come out that solve these problems.

For now I would find something that meets your needs, doesn't over heat the CPU and GPU for your planned usage, and has a 2-3 year warranty.

Also build a good desktop as a base from which to backup and access your data, especially if you want to get a laptop that is high-end and working on the edge all the time.

You need one computer to use while you fiddle with the other.

 

I would choose P775DM3 with a 6700k and 1080 or even better - P870DM2 if you want single graphics. Pretty obvious, don't you think? With a good heasink + paste will this be good. Can not recommend anything other than socket hardware. BGA machines is No GO from me and the same should also be for you!! You asked, I answered

 

BGA doesn't require as robust cooling system because it is TDP-crippled and clock-crippled. Systems that manage to cool a crippled BGA CPU are engineered in such a way that they would not be able to cope well at all with a powerful CPU. They are engineered to handle something weak and ordinary.

My recommendation would be to scratch anything with BGA off your list of options. Ultimately, you need to decide what is important to you. If you want a compromised product that requires a expensive motherboard/CPU/GPU replacement any time something goes wrong with just one of those items and don't care about having the best performance then go ahead and jump on the BGA bandwagon.

Tying the CPU and GPU heat sink together is just not a smart thing to do, but it seems to be popular for some weird reason.

 

The skylake BGA chips are not TDP-crippled by design, fortunately. A prema-modded P65x or P67x laptop should allow it to draw as much power as it wanted (though good luck getting it cooled at as high speeds as you want; the cooling system in there is not good enough).

Edit: To clarify, they are indeed clock crippled and badly binned. But not TDP-crippled; unless the laptop is limiting it. Just making certain the information here is correct.

 

Are they fully unlocked and capable of functioning as well as a 6700K that has been pushed hard? If not, then yes... they are TDP crippled.

 

Consider them a 6700K that's in a smaller die package but is binned badly.

Crippling depends on the manufacturer's decision, as you can see, ASUS cripples it to 75w.

 

Get a portable GS43VR like me, it cools surprisingly well and I've seen you around these parts enough to know that at heart, you're secretly a member of the small-and-light gaming notebook club

No but seriously, I know you said earlier that it's nearly impossible to get gaming laptops in India. If you got a P775DM3, how easy it would it be for you to be to get a replacement LGA CPU or MXM GPU if you needed one? If it's just as impossible, then the BGA disadvantage of the GT73VR goes away in your case.

 

Yes, fully unlocked and capable of functioning as well as a 6700K that has been pushed hard.

Their binning is bad (need higher voltage for the higher speeds, may not hit as-high speeds as the 4.9-5GHz 6700Ks I've seen generally do), and some manufacturers (like ASUS) limit the maximum TDP they can pull at the BIOS level (as @Mobius 1 said), and their clockspeed is low to begin with, certainly. But they have no physical restrictions at the CHIP level. Remember how your P870DM would not cross 4.5GHz without the Prema mod? Other manufacturers may do things like that... there was nothing "wrong" with the chip, but rather the system.

I generally don't jump in arguements here, I only throw facts and judgements extrapolated from facts around. Do I think if someone wants proper performance, or is willing to spend $3000+ on a laptop, that they should get a 6820HK instead of a 6700K? No. Are there things that I find awful about the mobile skylake chips (like the low clockspeeds and extremely bad binning)? Yes. But unlike the Haswell and Broadwell chips, these have no inborne native TDP lock on the CPU package as coded by intel.

 

The default is still 56 short and 45 long if you don't override them and leave at manufacturer auto.

That override window is often crippled, but on the Echo Alienware models, that is not the case.


Most likely on the 6820HK you will overwhelm the cooling unit first before you can actually reach the chip hard limit.

 

OK, then for all intents and purposes, a poorly binned CPU, often further crippled by the OEM and installed in a chassis incapable of handling anything special as far as overclocking, and permanently soldered to the mobo so no real way to address the knee-capped binning problem. So, yeah... crippled is the right word to use whether or not it is TDP limited. Just a poor choice from any angle from the way things sound. I guess whether it is technically TDP limited by Intel is a moot point under the circumstances.