*Official* nVidia GTX 10xx Series notebook discussion thread

IPS isn't automatically better colour reproduction either though. AHVA and IPS and PLS are basically the same thing http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php

There is no 75Hz panel. They are all 60Hz. They have a BIOS-level EDID adjustment to make them 75Hz on SOME laptops. For example, while Sager offers 75Hz for them on the 17" models, Metabox does not, and Clevo officially only says 60Hz. But the panels are all the same, either the LP173WF4-SPD1 or the LP173WF4-SPF1. 60Hz or 75Hz, it doesn't matter what the default shows up as; they all overclock the same.

They sell with Gsync now; only the first wave of them showed up without Gsync.

 

The color reports from users with the new 120hz panels haven't been good and end up returning them, so I find it hard to believe the AHVA is like a good IPS display, it sounds more like a modified TN - you still have the speed but improved off angle viewing, as described by AUO's AHVA page.

I think these panel reviewers are taking poetic license by saying the AHVA panel is IPS-like, like Samsung PLS.

Again, lets get some more NBR members to comment on their new 120hz screens, but most have been holding off purchase for the G-sync 120hz certification to come in:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...vr-owners-lounge.795277/page-14#post-10339790

You mean the 60hz panels are G-sync now, right?

I knew that the 75hz panels are newer versions of the 60hz panels that take advantage of the OC'ability of the 60hz IPS panels, and suggesting to look for those specifically is that they are likely newer stock than the 60hz only panels without modded firmware to set 75hz.

Might as well get the new stock products

 

Ok I don't think you understood anything I just said.

IPS, PLS and AHVA are *NOT* automatically "great colour". They're all still 6-bit panels, and they still need a colour rating. IPS primarily handles better contrast, deeper blacks, etc in terms of colour. They are generally used with higher colour depth (10-bit, 12-bit) and have extreme contrast which makes the colours more vibrant in general, but the colour range as far as I know is exactly the same as the TN panels can do. 72% NTSC gamut is 72% NTSC gamut. The range of colours it hits for achieving 72% may be different, but it's still just that amount.

They're not taking poetic license. The tech is literally almost identical; just proprietary in the case of PLS and AHVA.

I don't see any g-sync 120Hz selling in the US yet, though they should be certified as per a Clevo shop representative had said before. I think it's possible that they're just cleaning stock of the panels prior to the gsync certification. But people with the 1080p panel should have 120Hz. The only place I've seen someone even offer the non-120Hz panel is from Eurocom.

What? The 60Hz LP173WF4 panel variants have been gsync-certed the whole time; there'd be no reason to re-certify them. The 120Hz should be certified now; I don't know why rebranders aren't listing it yet.

The 75Hz panels are not "newer" versions. They are any version. The laptop in question needs a system BIOS that updates the EDID of the installed panel. If you revert the BIOS to before the OEM let it use 75Hz, it goes back down to 60Hz. If I swap in any of the same panel, regardless of when it was made, it'll shoot up to 75Hz. It's not the "panel". The Panel specs have not changed. They just feel safe using 75Hz because the screens OC so well.

 

In regards to the panel OC. Could one use a program like precisionX to OC the 60hz panel to 75 or is that bios change you spoke of needed?

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Yes, understood, agree to disagree about AHVA, 60hz came out first then 75hz variants came out months later after it was clear they would run faster, not sure 120hz G-sync display will be the same brand as currently sold 120hz non-G-sync display.

Lets see how @TBoneSan likes his 120hz non-G-sync AHVA screen, and if he thinks it has qualities more like TN or IPS.

 

You set the new refresh rate as a Custom Profile in the Nvidia Control panel.

And, I suppose if you are running the iGPU then the Intel GPU Control panel is supposed to be adding more user friendly Custom resolution control.

 

They're not called M anymore, and none of them except for the MSI 1060 are in a standard MXM form factor.

So this will fit in the 980m slot?. I just want VR without buying a whole new rig

 

I think I have seen you ask this in a number of threads... you haven't gotten an answer yet?

No, there is no support for upgrading 980m/980 laptops with Pascal GPU's.

 

Hmm. I tried that method on my desktop but I couldn't set the refresh higher than 60hz, so I ended up using precisionX. I probably did something wrong though. I didn't even know overclocking the display was a thing until like a month ago...

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Some display's won't OC at all, even 1hz, so that might be a limitation of your display.

I had an AUO that would only do 70hz, disappointing, but otherwise a nice panel

 

Oh I know. I meant I couldn't set it to anything above 60hz. As in it wasn't an option. With precisionX I could get like 74hz. Again I more than likely did it wrong when I tried via Nvidia control panel lol.

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You do it via nVidia Control Panel. It's really just making a custom resolution. The BIOS overclock simply changes the "default" speed to 75Hz, though it's got higher compatibility with games when done that way.

I don't understand how you're disagreeing when I'm giving you facts about the tech, but ok. As for the months later; it's BIOS updates. Like I said, flash an older sBIOS to a newer one that has the 75Hz EDID update in it and you suddenly get 75Hz.

 

74hz is good

The Nvidia Custom button, create a new entry, change 60 to 74 (for example), save it and then it will appear with 60hz as an option in a drop down menu for refresh rate.

 

Yea that looks different than what I recall doing. Thanks for the info! Tho I'm already using precisionX for my gpu oc so it's not a huge deal. But when my laptop shows up I'll try that. Reports are that the P650 display can only over clock like 3hz though

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There is variance in production runs and individual panel refresh OC range, you might get lucky

Are you getting a 60hz /120hz 1080p / 4k display?

 

Yea. 60hz in 4k or 1080p are the only choices from what I saw.

Edit: I'm getting 60hz 1080p

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3 choices, 1080p 60hz G-sync, 4k 60hz G-sync, 1080p 120hz non-Gsync.

So which one did you hear you can only get 3hz of OC out of?

 

The 1080p 60hz gsync. The 120hz must be new. I didn't see it as an option at any of the resellers when I ordered. Then again, was a month ago...

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Edit:saw your edit

So you heard you can only get 63hz out of the 60hz panel?

That's why I was concerned that they were selling 60hz only panels that wouldn't OC to 75hz in these first models, and to wait for displays that are advertised as 75hz G-sync.

@D2 Ultima - that was my point, the EDID should be set to 75hz in new laptops, so if they aren't then the panels are likely low chance to OC units, which it looks like that's also what @Xileforce has heard.

Hence my suggestion to seek out 75hz G-sync panels. Took us a long time to get there, didn't it

 

The 75hz displays are all in the 17 inch p670s. Perhaps that variant of the display overclocks better for some odd reason?

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I'm only getting a lowly single 1080.

For keeping temps it helps but you're fooling yourself if you think matching Hz to FPS helps will vsync. You can all the same get an oscillating tear up and down the screen.

Regarding the 120hz panel TN or IPS I'll see how it looks and hopefully demystify what the heck it really is.
To be honest I wasn't impressed with the old P870DM IPS screen. The old Alienware M18xR2's TN panel looked just as good.

 

That's the 4K panel. It can't pass 64Hz due to a bandwidth limit.

No. This is a OEM-specific update. Like I said, Metabox doesn't offer it, and it isn't a Clevo standard. Sager and most of the NA resellers offer it. ASUS and MSI also do it. But it isn't an inborne panel option. Those 1080p 17" panels simply overclock well in general, and most any panel will work to 75Hz. @Plur has a Metabox P770DM-G and her panel is 60Hz but overclocks to 100Hz easy. She has contacted Metabox asking for the 75Hz default in a BIOS update and they told her there was no such official update from Clevo, and that by extension they would not provide one.

 

IDK, they should be the same stock materials, but maybe there are old stock 15.6" displays?

I wouldn't panic yet, wait till you test yours.

Check the order page and see if there are updated display options...

 

On my GT80 980m SLI I had tearing in TW3, but setting the refresh to 100hz and FPS limit to 101hz solved the tearing, then I just did that for all the games - I didn't notice tearing in other games before this, but might as well be consistent, and shaving off the FPS over refresh removes uneeded load from GPU's/CPU. Most games would do 100 fps np.

And, I've done it on other laptops before when experiencing tearing, and it works.

I also play around with V-sync if it will recognize the increased refresh rate, which many games do.

I've heard the DM3/DM2 with single 1080 can be upgraded to SLI with the right parts, so if you feel the need you can always add one later?

 

DM3 can, the DM2 can do 1070 sli but not 1080 sli.

 

@Donald@HIDevolution posted recently about being able to upgrade a DM2 to a DM2+1080SLI (=DM3??) given the right parts, is that correct Donald? (Thanks ).

Found it:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...oenix-2-is-here.794530/page-374#post-10338491

"Yes, the EVOC P870DM2 will support Dual nVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 in SLi. You will need the 2nd card, SLi cable, SLi heatsink assembly, 2nd AC Adapter and the converter box. These kits will become available shortly."

 

Oh... That seems complicated... Well I would still say buy a DM3 if you plan on doing that lol. But ok, it is possible. The reason I said no is because i thought the DM2 implied it came with the wrong heatsink. Changing it out, yeah effectively makes it a DM3.

 

Will hold out hope! Then again, I'm not sure I can tell the difference between 74hz(75hz too elusive!) And 60hz on my desktop. Maybe in fast paced games. Plus I'm using vsync so the input lag is still there. Then again, I never knew vsync caused input lag either until I started reading up on gsync...and I've run vsync for ages in every game. Wondering how noticeable the delay is.

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It's a nice option, to gradually work up into a 1080 SLI, instead of taking the whole $$$$ hit right off the bat.

Plus you may find a single 1080 is enough, and you can permanently save the difference.

I would assume you would send in your laptop for the upgrade to 1080 SLI, and the vendor would handle the complicated upgrade.

 

Change 1 heatsink and add in the second card = DM3.
Not complicated stuff. But we'll see. I'm not a fan of SLI for gaming much these days. I've got the system configured goldie locks for me and happily my wallet right now.

 

Try turning vsync off and use a frame limiter to tune to the refresh rate + 1.

That works for me, stopping tearing and runaway GPU/CPU usage pushing frames over the refresh rate I'm not getting any benefit from.

I use Rivatuner to set the FPS limit to refresh rate +1, like 75hz = 76 FPS limit.

Rivatuner comes bundled with MSI Afterburner which is convenient since I use that to OC the GPU.

You can set options in both to enable CPU / GPU monitoring and On Screen Display (OSD) instead of FRAPs or Nvidia OSD.

 

On a GSync display I'd recommend the opposite. If its a 75Hz display cap at 74 so that GSync is actually on. Capping at 76 turns GSync off and will either turn VSync back on or let tearing happen again.

 

Thanks good to know when I get a G-sync display, the ones I was talking about were non-Gsync.

@Xileforce since you have G-sync listen to @Galm17 - twiddle with the settings and see what works best for you... what about limiting at 75hz instead of 74hz, that should work too right?

Seems odd that g-sync can't correct for 1hz higher framerate.

I know Vsync needs to be enabled for G-sync to work and an FPS limiter is doing the job of Vsync, but wondering if limiting FPS to refresh is enough to keep G-sync active.

Also wondering if FPS limit + refresh is enough without G-sync enabled - turn G-sync off too and see how you like it

 

When rendered FPS > maximum refresh rate of display, g-sync defaults to vsync. As for your other comment, it's actually necessary to disable any vsync in order for g-sync to kick in.

 

No limiting it to 75hz breaks everything lol. It like switches back and forth between on and off, and is a bad time. Definitely go below.

 

Hmmm, this is something that has been bandied back and forth much recently, people say turn V-sync on along with G-sync and G-sync will take over until the system generates more FPS than refresh rate then V-sync is enabled to stop tearing.

Here's the best explanation I have seen so far:

"V-sync in Nvidia control panel on. G-sync in NVCP on. V-sync in game off.

With G-sync on, V-sync in the NVCP is a bit different. It only turns on to reduce screen tearing if your GPU is kicking ass and producing frames higher than your monitor refresh rate, which is probably 144Hz if you have G-sync. You can use a frame limiter to stop it going over 144 FPS if you dont want the screen tearing without V-sync or input lag with V-sync."

 

I've seen that the gt73vr panel is 120hz and g-sync, at least Gentechpc had on that was. And on the nbc the review mentions it also. When you say there isnt any 120hz with g-sync you are talking about clevo, right?

 

The GT73 used to have it without GSync as well I believe. All of them are switching to GSync now as the certifications are done.

 

That GT73VR 120hz panel is also more TN-like than IPS-like, and at least one new owner didn't like it and returned the laptop due to the 120hz display:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...vr-owners-lounge.795277/page-14#post-10339790

 

@Xileforce

Rivatuner seems to keep the FPS 1 frame below listed limit already. That's why I suggested refresh +1.

When I look at in game FPS on Rivatuner Limiter if I set to 100 FPS the in game displayed average is 99 FPS. If I set it to 101 FPS, in game it says 100 FPS.

So it's worth playing around with +-1 FPS around your desired setting.

It sounds like if you want it just under refresh, say 75hz for example, then set the Rivatuner FPS limiter to 75, as it will actually be limiting to just under 75 FPS - showing 74 FPS in game, which sounds like the desired behavior for G-sync.

 

It's not TN-like... it is TN. The Chi Mei one at least is specifically TN; NBC's review listed it directly as such.

 

So...
There is a really good price for a Asus G752VS here in Portugal. Its around 300€ less then the "same" configuration P775 or 400€ less then the "same" configuration Gt73VR.
I guess i'm jumping the gun. A 75hz G-sync panel is not so bad... Or is it?

Any thoughts? I have only some hours till the price ends!

 

That's a solid difference, though I believe that's because the P775DM can hold a 1080 and the GT73VR can hold sli. The P770DM and GT72 may be more apt comparisons. Or even a P670 though that ones soldered.

 

Yes, I guess thats one reason. But this is a 24hr special -15% price on a specific store. All other places sell this for 250+€ difference. Well, I guess I'll buy this and a ps4 for FFXV. Its a solid laptop and the 75hz panel will have to do.

 

Because 40 FPS at 40 Hz has waaay more consistent frame-times than 40 FPS at 60 Hz. It's why G-Sync is better than V-sync - it's literally an 'adaptive refresh rate' for the display.

 

I see. So you mean a user with vsync on and an average frame rate of 40 fps on a particular title

 

If your referring to why I said cap at 74 instead of 75 its to keep gsync on all the time. 1 fps is not a noticeable cost to elminate tearing and stuttering. With Gsync I would never recommend capping more than a few fps below the refresh rate. 40 on a 60hz display is far too low.

 

Yes, more or less (like me, I get 40 FPS on TW3 and it stutters like hell on 60 Hz).

On an ordinary display, V-sync is useless for frame-rates lower than the refresh rate, unless you want to limit it to integral reciprocals of integer factors of the refresh rate. For example, if one has a 60 Hz display, V-sync is most effective when the frame rate is limited to 60 FPS (1/1), 30 FPS (1/2), 20 FPS (1/3), 15 FPS (1/4), 12 FPS (1/5), 10 FPS (1/6), 6 FPS (1/10) and 1 FPS (1/60). These are, quite literally, the only best frame rates to run a game on a 60 Hz display. If not, the game stutters and jolts as frames are either displayed too early, or too late. G-sync simply clocks the display to match the refresh rate, so instead of a game having consistent frame-times in only 8 frame rates (the ones listed above), it can now look consistent with all frame rates.

Tearing only occurs when the frame rate exceeds the refresh rate.

 

Anyone have any insight as to whether we can expect to see 75hz or above 15.6" g-sync panels anytime soon? While having g-sync at 60 (overclocked to 65hz) is nice, even 75hz would be simply amazing. Coming from a desktop 144hz g-sync setup, I really miss it the higher refresh rates. I would assume since I have a g-sync gpu I could simply replace my panel in the future, but they would have to be available for purchase in the first place.

 

No worries. You didn't need the big explanation but I still appreciate you being thorough.

I didn't think many people played with vsync. Mainly my comments was for Hmscott since i was replying to him about trying to match Hz with FPS via RTSS, which is a common vsync off trick.