*Official* nVidia GTX 10xx Series notebook discussion thread

Not to mention isn't this a "gaming" notebook? Most games aren't going to stress the cpu like Cinebench. The GPU is much more important than the CPU in this model.

I would imagine a slight undervolt with a repaste would be fine if you just want to play games.

 

If I had a good option I would have gone socketed, but my first priority was "silence" and the socketed options are all small jetplanes.
My bga Asus is really quiet with a [email protected]. The equivalent socketed clevo is a vacuum cleaner with 15-20% extra cpu performance. For me it was a no brainer.

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Right. That is the biggest issue. Not necessarily socket vs BGA, it's any number of factors users want, and many don't give a damn if it has a socket or not. A 1 inch thick laptop with socketed CPU and GPU with good thermals and low fan noise would be an engineering marvel, well within our current technical limits, but nobody has seemed to make such a beast.

 

Exactly. The socketed options use really loud low quality fans to achieve ok temperatures on oc cpus.
If you are not a hard-core fps junkie, truth is that the extra 20% cpu performance you get don't really give that big advantages.

Maybe clevo finally give us a socketed beast with the next generation of cpus AND quality fans to cope. One can only hope for such a thing. In the meantime, my bga laptop is just fine.

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The point of the socket system these days goes with that last 10-20% of performance. And the relative freedom to be able to test and fix DIY if you break stuff.

Also, an overbuilt cooling system like ypu see in the P870, when downclocked WILL be quieter and more efficient *at the same load*.

The thing with enthusiasts... In the same way nature abhors a vacuum... If temp and power headroom is there it will be used. This last bit of performance has diminishing returns; each extra 100mhz costs exponentially more watts and volts which makes the unit louder at full capacity.

Are the fans truly crappy, or are they just being run harder longer more often than most other laptops? I find MSI's marketing about cooling more puff than substance. Its easier to keep a unit quiet when you're throttling it down under sustained load...

 

Undervolting works best for heavy CPU loads, and has only a marginal effect on light loads. As the CPU load increases the reduced voltage on the CPU has a greater effect on reducing thermal output.

Cinebench is a case that would benefit from undervolting, longer running CPU jobs would benefit even more.

With MSI / Asus laptops you don't need to repaste 99.99% of the time to get full performance from even the OC'd 7820HK at 4.5ghz with raised power limits.

For those rare occasions where an undervolt isn't enough to drop the CPU load temps far enough to stop thermal throttling, you return the laptop to the vendor and get another unit.

Why go through all the effort to re-paste when it's the vendor / makers job to do a good job when the laptop was built? We pay a lot of money for these laptops to work at their best right out of the box, and if it doesn't, return it for one that does.

It's not the buyers responsibility to get the thermals in order out of the box, and it's well outside the comfort zone for most people to pull apart their brand new $XXXX laptop to fix it themselves.

Even for those that are comfortable with DIY work, common sense should step in and stop you. Who wants to risk losing their investment on an expensive purchase, or waste the time re-pasting over and over a few times until you get it just so.

Undervolting is enough, and if it isn't, get another laptop.

 

I agree, it should have quality TIM applied from the factory and correctly. But we've all seen time and time again how sometimes reapplying top shelf TIM can make a difference. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Sucks.

 

Is there a 1090 coming soon for laptops?

 

It usually is possible to improve temps by re-pasting, but it's rarely necessary was my point. Undervolting drops temps enough on it's own to stop thermal throttling, and that's all you really need to do to run at best performance.

Reducing temps further is a fun game unto itself, but not required.

 

Another new throttlemonster from Micro$oft... Microsoft Surface Book 2 Convertible Review (Core i7-8650U - GTX 1050) . Price: 2249 Euro or 2653.25 U.S. dollars

"Contrary to previous assumptions, the processor in the smaller Surface Book 2 is not limited to 15W. According to the tool Intel XTU, the power limits are 35W for short workloads and even up to 25W for the long term. The system can make use of that, at least for limited periods, which explains the good Cinebench multi score of 673 points. However, the temperatures will quickly rise (up to 99 °C), which results in a performance reduction. The result quickly drops to the range between 500-540 points, which is a drop between 20-25%."


Opinion: It's time we talked about throttling in reviews

Edit... More news regarding Micro$haft's new throttlebook.
Surface Book 2 suffers from performance throttling, charging abnormalities, and slower response times-NBC.net

Microsoft's Surface Book 2 has a power problem-pcworld.com
"We didn't expect the Surface Book 2 to drain its battery while plugged in, but it did when we played 3D games."

 

Microsoft Throttlebook ™

 

The Jokebooks from Medion™ is not much better... Test Medion Erazer X7857 (i7-7820HK - GTX 1070)


"Here comes the train, which has already indicated in the loop: The clock of all 4 cores is throttled very quickly and can not exhaust its full clock potential."

Nice with an unlocked mobile i7.

"Unfortunately, it looks significantly worse in the internal hardware measurements: the graphics card heats up to about 84 degrees Celsius, but the CPU to over 90 degrees. Therefore, the latter is also throttled quickly, because in the first few minutes, the temperature increases alarmingly.
From then on, the CPU temperatures remain at a constant high 96 degrees Celsius! Over the long term, this can no longer be classified as completely harmless for the durability of the processor; at HWInfo, all values above 90 degrees Celsius are displayed as red. Despite the loud fans, the CPU heats up too much, so Medion urgently needs to improve! So it is no wonder that the clock rates are drastically lowered. But even that seems insufficient to help against the high core temperatures. The clock leveled after about an hour at about 2.1/2.2 GHz."

 

This should make everyone extremely sad. Sad that idiots build this trash, and sad that idiots buy it. However, I find it very difficult to not be jubilant over the failure of this worthless techno-filth. It's great that more people with power to influence the ignorant are finally recognizing this trash for what it is. Let's hope the seething hatred and utter contempt for it continues to build until it reaches the point the makers of this garbage have to send it all to the electronics shredder and eat the loss because nobody with a lick of intelligence wants to buy this crap.

 

Well, silicon node shrinks are getting slower and slower while demand for stronger performance on thinner form factor is growing. I am not surprised at all.

 

Is anyone of you affected? Check this out: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...essageId=25d97904-0036-42dd-b931-beb4e1445706

 

theres no such thing as a 1090 that I have heard of, if your speaking about a 1080 or 1080 ti then yes they currently have them for laptops, but the performance vs their desktop counterparts is lacking to say the least if your looking to do an upgrade if you have an alienware I would advise the AGA if not I would advise getting a thunderbolt c external graphics amp and a decent monitor

 

No, there will be no new laptop GPU’s until next gen, which is supposed to be released late in the Fall of 2018.

 

There is no 1080 Ti for laptops, nor will there ever be. Those are for desktops only.

The performance difference between the laptop and desktop nVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 is minimal...check your facts at https://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-1080-Laptop.171212.0.html. The desktop version is only one tick above the laptop version for Class 1 cards.

eGPUs of any brand truly gimp whatever card you put in them...they are a poor solution...it is far better to upgrade your internal card if possible.

 

Here's an already established version, much longer history, +296+ replies, and it covers a wider range of symptoms:

Intel + NVIDIA Laptop Freeze Problem
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...-problem/93e7004a-62b1-4211-8e37-4c136608865e

"There is a problem with laptops which use mobile GTX 1050/1050Ti/1060/1070. When we perform right click, click on battery icon or try to open display settings, system hangs for a second.

This video describes the problem perfectly:



We have tried updating every software possible, but no luck.

• Intel driver
• NVIDIA driver
• Chipset driver
• BIOS
• Firmware

The problem can be found on all laptop brands: ASUS, Acer, Clevo, Dell, Gigabyte, HP, Lenovo, MSI, Razer.

The problem can be solved by either disabling Intel GPU, which forces the system to always work with NVIDIA, or disabling NVIDIA GPU. Both of them is not an option though, as if you disable Intel, not only you will drain the battery faster, but also some games will stop working. If you disable NVIDIA, then what is the point of buying a laptop with a discrete GPU?

There is a also a workaround: configuring a software to always work with NVIDIA in the backgound. This keeps the NVIDIA GPU alive but also drains battery faster. And there is no point in that as it renders Optimus useless!

So, Microsoft has to come up with a fix."

This is just another example of many years and thousands of people with Optimus related problems, it's a nightmare for those affected, and a lurking problem for those that haven't noticed or been directly affected by their use pattern, yet.

Don't buy Optimus laptops!! Get dGPU only, or MUX switchable laptops that can completely remove the iGPU from the path except for battery use.

Optimus was good in theory, and when it was first introduced I had the same optimistic view, until it was a problem for me too.

Fortunately back then most / all iGPU had a MUX and a BIOS setting to turn it off.

Now most Optimus laptops are full time non-switchable with the display directly connected to the iGPU 100% of the time, except on the highest end gaming laptops that still have MUX switches.

I doubt Windows 10 will every correctly support iGPU / dGPU as documented by all of these owners in this and other complaint threads.

Do yourself a favor and either get a full time iGPU only laptop (no dGPU), or a full time dGPU laptop.

 

I came with a better workaround but microstutters are still around (rarely):

1- When plugged in I just open the Nvidia Control Panel and keep the 3D Image Preview on. It forces the dGPU to stay on all the time! In this mode I have absolutely no stutters no matter what or where I click. You could say it feels the same as a G-Sync laptop.

2- When not plugged in and need battery life, I do the exact opposite. Set every possible power saving mode and change both 3D and Physx modes to iGPU, and keep the Physx window opened with CPU displayed. Put laptop into sleep mode and turn it on, iGPU mode on! Clicking on the battery icon is the only instance causing the freezes so I avoid it. Also 6.5 hours of battery life with this mode on my GE63VR.

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Wouldn't it just be easier to carry a laptop dedicated to battery use that doesn't have a dGPU - even better battery life?

Most (all?) dGPU models currently out won't perform on battery at all anyway, so why tote around that heavier dGPU laptop that won't get as good of battery as a full iGPU only laptop, and has problems with lag and stuttering when on AC power?

Carry 2 laptops, or just one, and leave the dGPU laptop - without stutters and lag - at home for moving around the house, and for longer trips where you can plug it in all the time.

IDK, as soon as I got rid of Optimus in my laptops I was much happier.

The GT80 with MUX didn't have great battery life on iGPU only mode, it "doubled" battery time, but it only went to 2:45 from 1:15, neither are really useful battery runtimes.

 

In my case it is a 2.4kg laptop capable of doing both tasks at once and I couldn't be happier I can game at home and spend an entire day at school/work without needing the huge power brick.

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And if it wasn't for those darned glitches with Optimus, it would be perfect.

 

Yep, i agree with you. Optimus is still not perfect.

 

Yeah, I agree with that. Having to keep switching between iGPU and dGPU every now and then is a dreadful task.
But again, is there a better way to get the best out of both worlds in a single package? Not that I know of. For now I'm very satisfied with this thing, although imperfect in the sense of Optimus.

 

To me it's almost impossible to game on a plane nowadays with the short seat pitches, even doing a bit of productivity work can be a pain with anything but the smallest laptop. Outside of flying I've no use whatsoever for battery. So... I carry two lappies, a Surface pro 4 for reasonable bat and size on a plane and a big dog sans Optiimus for use when I get there. When going overseas I carry a hefty power brick which can charge my SP4 once and the phone several times. Just say no to Optimus and pesky battery issues!

 

My word this issue has been blown way out of proportion. The OP in the linked thread wants to boycott all M$ products LoL.

On a 1 to 10 scale of annoyance, it is like a 1.5. I think OCD is driving people mad "because they know its there." It would be super nice if they fixed this... but lets be honest, it is by far not the biggest problem with Win 10.

Would it be better if laptops had a MUX switch? YES, but they won't... that is an advanced feature. The average user wouldn't know how to, or what it does.

But really, how many times do you click on battery icon (instead of just hover over) to see life. Or need to adjust resolution through IGPU interface? Even if it is twice a day for some odd reason, thats like 2 seconds...

 

Since the 2nd day I had it I figured out my P170EM would microhang whenever a monitoring utility polled the GPU (680M) for sensor data if it was asleep. The solution was just to stop the monitors from monitoring the GPU.

Geez, sounds like I missed my chance to start a class action and sue M$ and Ngreedia for a million dollars... No, wait,

 

I mean, come on. There are legit concerns/complaints about Optimus. And then there is OCD.

 

Asus Zenbook Pro UX550VE (i7-7700HQ - GTX 1050 Ti) Laptop review

TRiPOD Cpu heatsink. 4 screws for the whole package.


processor
The Intel Core i7-7700HQ has a base clock of 2.8 GHz and can reach a maximum turbo frequency of 3.8 GHz. We've tested this processor quite a few times as it's a hugely popular choice for powerful multimedia or gaming laptops.

Interestingly, the results in the benchmarks even fall slightly behind our previous review sample. However, the differences are not questionable under a short load. 153 points in the single test of the Cinebench R15 are below average and ~ 6% behind the ZenBook Pro UX550VD

More important, however, is how the processor beats under sustained stress. The UX550VE works around 5% slower in the long term: The UX550VD averages 739 points, which we see in our more expensive model only in the first run. After that, the value falls within the range between 699 - 709 points. The waste here is not dramatic at 5%, but the difference is there. However, the overall situation looks much more relaxed than, for example, the passively cooled Surface Book 2 , where the performance fell by a whopping 23% after a few rounds.


It seem the Power is crippled in a way or another With firmware, as Cpu Package Power barely is above 14W from the 45W TDP BGA chips. Nice!!

 

Yeah, well that's how frustrating it can be to people with Optimus problems, in the scale of preventing them from doing their work to just really annoying, it's all not what they thought they were buying, and it can result it this feeling expressed in BOLD CAPS level exasperation:

"Update 5

IT HAS BEEN NEARLY A YEAR THAT WE HAVE THIS PROBLEM

AND MICROSOFT DID NOT MAKE ANY OFFICIAL STATEMENT REGARDING A FIX.

MSI SAYS MICROSOFT IS TO BLAME! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

IF YOUR ENGINEERS CAN'T FIX A SINGLE PROBLEM THEN LEAVE THE BUSINESS.

I RECOMMEND EVERYONE TO RETURN THEIR LAPTOP AND GET A MACBOOK!

CONSUMER REPORTS REMOVED SURFACE FROM RECOMMENDED DEVICES!

NOW I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THEM!

RETURN YOUR LAPTOP IN 2018 AND GET A MACBOOK!"

Now it looks like Intel is taking on fixing the bug

"Update 6 - Intel Confirmed the Bug

Intel has confirmed the bug and they are working on it. Here is their statement on the issue:

Hello Everyone,

The update I can provide at this point is that our debug team has been able to reproduce this issue, and they are currently investigating what is the root cause.

I would also like to apologize for the late reply. Our resources were focused on some critical issues (e.g. BSOD, crashes), and had to put this on a lower priority for a while. However, we acknowledge that this is extremely important as well, thus the priority of this bug report has been raised, so I'm hoping news come out faster from now on.

Thank you for your patience, and as soon as I have more information I'll share it here.

Best Regards,

Ronald M."

I've helped a lot of people figure out the Optimus problems over many years, and once you realize the limitations and mis-features, not to mention applications that won't switch from iGPU to dGPU (like the Windows OS!!), you begin to get a sinking feeling of despair over Optimus.

And, don't doubt it can't happen to you, some use pattern will change, a new application you need to work that doesn't, or Windows update that messes up iGPU or dGPU in a way others without Optimus aren't experiencing, it's all happened at one point or another, and will continue to happen.

Don't get in the way of Optimus, it'll mow you down!!

 

Wow, 15W PL0 and 1.5/1.6ghz is a new low, along with lowered thermal limits (cores tripping thermal throttling when only 89C/93C max showing??)


Its like they have deliberately added self monitoring algorithms that detect the stress test scenario and change how the equipment performs to provide a more favourable result... Hmmmm... I think I saw something similar in the news recently..........

 

More milking. Welcome to GTX 1050 Max-Qrippled - noteboockcheck.net

 

LOL Why do you need a MAX-Q 1050 ti? it barely makes any heat on the load compared to other gpu's.. This is just getting retarded

 

Nvidia's answer to Kaby Lake-G or shall we say AMD Aka try to push all the OEM's to opt for Intel BGA H Mobile instead + Nvidia graphics Welcome to the sick sick world.

 

They need to be honest with themselves and bring back the -M series in parallel with the full chips and be done with it.

 

More money in *new* tech See also 1070Ti for desktops. And I think Nvidia also have 3 variants of 1060 (3, 5 and 6GB vram). Maybe the next step for laptops as well. In both Max-Q and Normal design.

 

It's definitely too fragmented this time around. If it were me, I'd make it two or three distinct product lines (BGA only M series, and then either a blanket non-M for the full chips or a non-M and a D series indicating which is MXM). Then get rid of multiple VRAM versions and Ti versions for laptops. (still fine with them on the desktop side)

 

Well put.

 

They could offer the BIG BOY 1080Ti MXM chips as in desktops For the Normal laptops.

 

I like how you consider a hypothetical most powerful non-SLI laptop ever made to be "Normal".

 

What with 2080Ti Sli for laptops? Damn, I would rob a bank for one. Or walk to the moon

 

You could actually, if you mod your laptops cooling to liquid cooling version just like asus gx800, and then use maybe 2 or 3 eurocom's 780w powersupply (yeah, that gonna drill a damn black hole in ya pocket, so good luck robbin a bank)(also dont even expect your family members to believe its just a "laptop"! , those power bricks and liquidcooling docking station are UGLY as hell !)

 

Just 4 alphabets, " lmao"!!!!!!

 

I mean, me too, but I'd call that "exceptional" rather than "normal".

 

I have just a normal ferrari.. nothing special LMAO.

Yeah 2080ti sli isn't exactly what you call normal. but I see his point, never have too much POWA.

Do you guys think MXM will make its return with 2000 series?

 

I certainly hope so.


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MXM standard 3.0b board size, forget it

MXM slot connection... well Clevo have made their own PCB design and are largely in control of the interface between their GPUs and their motherboards, and they would of course prefer not to have to do major redesign of all their dGPU mobos and chassis, assuming they don't have the P750, P775, P870 successors in the works, and hopefully not all *shudder* BGA soldered because idiot focus groups have told them they want something a few mm thinner...

I kind of have a small but horrible feeling Nvidia will kill off the ability to put a GPU on an add-in board altogether, with some proprietary crap technology or some "security" excuse... Consumer GPUs are chump change to them now they're busy investing in AI hardware

 

Well, amd is starting to wake up and get some steam as well as intel is talking discrete GPU, hopefully the additional players in the markets lights some fires under some people's chairs.

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haha, imagine if nvidia was reading this thread.....you never know I havea feeling they are bringing back mxm....crosses fingers