Pascal: What do we know? Discussion, Latest News & Updates: 1000M Series GPU's

This mobile renaming or successor theme is disgusting and pervert. I eventually thought the mobile-desktop gap is closed with Pascal and we get a whole clean Pascal Lineup. Mainstream gets 1060m, Enthusiasts get above. Obviously not? As if calling a 960m a gaming card (and aside from the 860m rebranding) wasn't ridiculous enough, now the 1060m is "prestige" class or what? (of course with prestige prices)

 

So we've got another new info about notebook GTX 1070:



http://videocardz.com/62483/mobile-geforce-gtx-1070-to-feature-2048-cuda-cores
https://benchlife.info/geforce-gtx-1070-for-mobile-07202016/

This confirms that earlier leak of MSI GT73 was indeed GTX 1070 and not GTX 1080 (features from this and that leak match).



This is a good news, it means even more performance than GTX 980 Ti will come to notebooks with GTX 1080

 

Coming to new notebooks alright, just not our "upgrade-able" ones..

 

interesting! so based on core count, vRAM clocks and core clocks, the 1070 should be around 50-60% faster than a 980M of course, this calculation is only possible due to the fact that pascal and maxwell cores are basically equally performant clock for clock

@sponge_gto : nice desktop setup btw, basically exactly what id get if i were in for a desktop nowadays (aside from a 6-8 core HEDT cpu )

 

I have been away for 5 days from this thread and wow, i can't believe my eyes
249$ GPU converted to an almost 2000$ USD laptop (slightly weaker)
How much milk does Ngreedia wants?
This is all AMD's fault for not making a high end card
Despite how much the increase in the performance, classification of cards should remain the same accordingly to price ratio.that's why... it is called new technology lol.
Gtx xx60 = 800-1200$ Laptop
Gtx xx70 = 1200-1500$ laptop
Gtx xx80 = 1600 - 2200$ Laptop

I missed those times when ngreedia moved from Fermi to Kepler
They were fair and square (price/performance increase ratio)

Gtx 580M (gtx 560ti based) => gtx 680M (gtx 670 based)
Almost same price for both at their launch
Gtx 780M (full fledge gtx 680 GK-104 with lower clocks) starts at 1700$ USD ish for laptop (MSI GT60)
Now we will never see a full fledge GP-104 / GTX xx80 for less than 3000$ USD??
Man, even salary of the earth only increases 5-10% annually.
This Ngreedia increase their price by 85% within 4 years! Simply amazing SMH

Take my body and soul Ngreedia!!!!

 

We already have 3dmark firestrike score for notebook GTX 1070 - it's ~173% of GTX 980M (thanks to Mr. Najsman).

Pretty impressive (even better gains than 164% when going from GTX 970M to notebook GTX 1060).

 

Okay, but if we have now the information that the 1060 mobile is 1060 desktop, the 1070 mobile is in fact a 1070 desktop (and the mobile 1080 most likely a desktop 1080), why should naming be more confusing if the cards are named exactly like their desktop counterparts?

 

If GTX 1060 mobile falls into the price range of $1400 - $1500. I'll get one without doubt.

 

You all should really stop calling it the "1060 mobile." Just call it the 1060M. Stop confusing people, ha ha!

You're making it sound as though the desktop 1060 is replacing the 960M in notebooks. There's no way in hell that a low-tier graphics card will have 120W TDP in a laptop. There will be a 1060M with a 75W-85W TDP. It will not be the "desktop 1060" in a mobile device. You will see the actual desktop 1060 in a laptop this year, but it won't be replacing the 960M.

Just refer to it as the 1060M because that's what it is by specification - 1060 with lower clock and core count. Just as last year with the 980 and 980M in laptops, you'll see a 1060 and 1060M in laptops, 1070 and 1070M in laptops, and so on.

 

I just browsed to this site
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
Not sure why it is named that and it sells literally any electronics gadget with very fair price (for me who's located outside USA at least)
So i went and browse few stuff
- I7-6700K
- 2xGTX 1070 in SLI Zotac Amp 1.8Ghz core (5 years warranty)
- Corsair vengance 16GB 3200 MHz RAM DDR4
- Gigabyte gaming micro Atx 5 (tri-SLI supported) Z170 chipset OC certified
- 750 watt powersupply
- UHD 4K IPS samsung monitor 23.8 inches
- very cheap ass micro atx- casing (i will buy locally)

All costed me 1887$ USD to be exact(with cheap ass casing)
And... Ludicruously by the Same amount of money, i Will get a laptop with a single gtx 1060(249$ value) with FHD screen?
No.. Just plain no.
Laptop has become luxury indeed

 

We have fellow user like @SRSR333 who expected to see the 'mobile 1060' in the replacements for their current 13'/14' models. In general this will not be the case, after many years of going from 560M...860M to 960M it suddenly won't be the 1060 replacing the form factor.

But let's pretend there was no history, then we now have Desktop and Mobile chips sharing a '=' name but '≠' performance.
We are also going to see a substantial performance difference depending on the vendor/shell they are used in, so that even 'mobile 1070' ≄ 'mobile 1070' in a RL scenario.

I feel if a customer purchases a product with a certain name on it, then it should come as no 'surprise' of what he/she actually ends up with, but that's just my2c...

Either way Pascal will please the mobile gaming world...personally I am looking forward to finally upgrade!

 

1070/1080 mxm 3.0 for my GT60 that's all I want, even though the later has a lower probability. This or the new GT63

 

all the more reason why it would be a damn SHAME if clevo doesnt release a 1070 in standard mxm form factor....

 

Dear prema guru of all laptop tweaks
Pascal will please mobile world;
Performance wise = very pleased
Price wise = let's rob the bank first lol


Btw, correct me if i am wrong
From fermi
Gtx 560M 75 watt = gtx 550ti (120 watt card)
Gtx 580M 100 watt = gtx 560ti (195 watt card)
All with lower clocks
But still the same chips

From kepler
Gtx 870M 100 watt = gtx 670 (150 watt)
Gtx 880M 120 watt = gtx 680 (195 watt)
All with lower clocks but same chips

Price was ~1200 for x60M and 1700-2200 for single x80M laptop
Now we will never see those prices

Despite the improvement in performance between generations, the price was always stable (maybe 50-100$ More or less) for the every corresponding x60M, x70M and x80M at Launch!
The trend was always like that till pascal comes. Nvidia marketing is a genius

 

This. Listen to Prema

Branding is a mess and price increase is annoying but by all indications there are some terrific gains in performance and efficiency coming to notebooks with Pascal.

You will be able to get much more power in much smaller form factors with Pascals compared to Maxwells.

+60-70% jump over previous gen *is* awesome (just look at CPUs with their paltry +5% improvements).

 

its gonna be such a mess! it all started with the various TDP models of the 980 mobile, now were gonna have THREE gpus with a gazillion variants each

in any case, in the end its just best to get yourself a phoenix, slap in whatever monster form factor MXM u want and call it a day i for one, however, will be holding on to my dark knight for at least another 2.5 years, thats when the warranty runs out

 

In my honest opinion, there is no trend whatsoever and companies do as they need to at the time. Stop trying to fix happenings of the past to current events

Now, I don't care what things are called and in my experience, the common customer doesn't know nor care what the name of the graphics chip is, which is why they can sell "Gaming laptops" and desktops with stuff like a GTX 750 by just calling it Nvidia GTX graphics with # GB of RAM.

Clearly consumers buying ultra thin laptops with super high end GPUs, with optimus enabled and throttling with very specific TDP.... don't know nor care and even if you tell them, they are most likely OK with it.

But for me, I know what the GPUs are even if they change names or whatever. Names are meaningless. If you know how to read the specs, why do you care what they call it?

Give me MXM GPUs nvidia!

 

Making the "1060M" (or whatever you want to call it) equivalent to the 980M in performance is great... making it equivalent in price is terrible. But perhaps it'll end up being cheaper than we suspect.

 

Well, what i can hope is for this "Pascal Hype" to end (which not sure when)
However, i cannot blame the laptop vendor fully either
Coz the desktop counter parts are already more expensive than it was. so it just makes sense for the laptop version to be priced that high
But i am sure price will be more reasonable by end of this year
Now another curiosity
If gtx 1080 mobile is 2560 core
Then it's really gonna destroy the gtx 980 mobile performance and price wise
Reminds me of 40nm to 28nm change
Like how gtx 780M can destroy gtx 580 desktop (fermi to kepler)
And that is undeniably amazing

 

We all know the best way to say "No!" is with our wallets - so don't buy Mobile Pascal and you should see a price drop. But we all know that's not going to happen

 

Not buying something can mean a lot.
Who knows what they will 'understand' from that.
It's better to also send them an email or some kind of message too.

 

Not defending nvidia's greed or anything, but in all fairness I read that producing Pascal cards is significantly more expensive than Maxwell, somewhat explaining the sharp price increase. At the end of the day we get a desktop card into our notebook, and we can choose between 3 monsters, the 1060(M) already surpassing the 980 desktop card. Therefore I don't consider the 1060 a successor of the 960M (when was the last time a X60M significantly outclassed a X80M of the previous generation? Never, afaik) and we'll surely get a proper 960M successor with a different name and adjusted lower pricing and performance (i.e. 1055M).

 

Desktop GTX 1060 is around $249. Double the price for GTX 1060M may be alright, but triple the price is *greedy*.

GTX 970M is about $500 on eBay. So if the price of GTX 1060M laptop is on par of current 970M should be fine.

 

You do know that the major reason why desktop cards are so much cheaper is because they are produced in a much larger quantity by multiple manufacturers like EVGA, Zotac etc., bringing the price down while the mobile cards itself are not even traded in regular stores and just available at online resellers? Of course this let's the price stay high. The mobile cards don't even fall in price as much because they are pretty rare, taking the 680M for example.

But you are right, as now with Pascal we get more or less desktop cards nvidia has no real excuse to milk us like that, but unfortunately they control the entire mobile chip production by themselves. I hope we'll eventually see nvidia to allow EVGA & Co to produce OC'ed and modified chips for notebooks, as then with variety and larger scale production of multiple manufacturers the price could go down significantly.

 

@sirana

This had always been my hope and a good reason to advocate MXM, there's no good reason it couldn't be this way, but with people gobbling up BGA machines enthusiastically I don't see this ever happening.

 

I think nVidia has won here, because reading the last few pages, I've become thoroughly confused.

Let me attempt to bring some order into this mess, starting with the 9XXM series, which appear to be the simplest.

We had the low-end GPUs which are meant to replace Iris/Iris Pro, and are fit to run older games at moderate frame-rates. They don't have a GT/GTS/GTX prefix. TDPs are < 35 W.

• GeForce 920M (GK208. WTF, nVidia?)
• GeForce 930M (GM108)
• GeForce 940M (GM108)

Then comes the entry-level GPUs, which are good for modern AAA games at 1080p ~30 FPS. TDP ranges from 40 W to 60 W.

• GTX 950M (GM107)
• GTX 960M (GM107)
• GTX 965M (GM206)

Finally, we have the enthusiast/high-end GPUs, which have up to triple-digit TDPs, starting at ~ 80 W:

• GTX 970M (GM204)
• GTX 980M (GM204)
• GTX 980 (GM204)

What I believed, was that the new crop of cards that have apparently abandoned their 'M' suffixes would replace their respective numerical predecessors from the Maxwell generation, going by TDP calculations and the rumours about the new chips.

Meaning to say - the PurePC.pl and Golem.de websites suggest that the GTX 1060 for notebooks would have a TDP of 65 W, but be precisely the same chip (in terms of ROP/TMU/core) as that on the desktop GPUs. Hence, within its own generation, it ought to replace the 960M/965M, which have roughly similar TDPs. This is because it has approximately 50% the performance of the 1080, and the 960M also had ~ 50% the performance of the 980M.

A similar argument would apply for the 1070/1080.

Now, my point is that if the 1060 notebook already has a TDP of 65 W, which is around what the 965M has, then what's the point of cutting the chip down to the 1060M and calling it a mid-range chip? Might as well change the name altogether, and call it the 1040.

Sigh... nVidia has to make life complicated for its notebook users. No wonder so few of those at /r/pcmasterrace know enough about notebooks.

 

What happened to the NBR that used to be a place of intelligent, reasonable discussion?

If this 1070 was being called the 1080M, and the 1060 was being called the 1070M, and the 1050 was being called the 1060M, like it's been in every previous generation, no one would be blinking.

Why has the dropping of the 'M' driven so many of you insane? It's not that complicated.

 

High-end GPU segment is pretty clear by now and kinda makes sense:

GTX 1080 (GP104) - successor of GTX 980 - performance at over GTX 980 Ti
GTX 1070 (GP104) - successor of GTX 980M - performance little bit under GTX 980 Ti
GTX 1060 (GP106) - successor of GTX 970M - performance little bit under GTX 980

Launch August-September 2016, tons of notebooks already exist (MSI / Asus / Clevo).

Prices will be somehow higher than in 900 series, similarly to how desktop prices were bumped up (but performance will go up much more).

TDP may also go a bit up vs 900 series predecessors (independently of what marketing numbers will say, kinda like desktop GTX 1060 will draw more than official 120 watts, measured up to ~200 watts, can't just handwave this in notebooks, both Maxwell and Pascal do well under average loads, but still power hungry under max loads).

Seems new chassis got more cooling / got slightly thicker exactly to accommodate for that (e.g. GS60 => GS63 with 3 fans, or new thick GT62 to be able to handle GTX 1070).

Mid-range GPU segment is still kinda murky (wild guesses here):

- launch could be November-December 2016
- some rumours about cut down GP106 as GTX 1050 Ti (what used to be called "3GB version of 1060")
- could have some re-branded Maxwell chips
- this is what will compete with AMD's notebook Polaris 11 GPUs (seems right now they plan to release just notebook RX 460, with performance of maybe GTX 965M but lower TDP and likely cheaper)

-------

BTW a thing to keep in mind - plans are not set in stone - both Nvidia and AMD already reacted to developing situation and did changes in this cycle on relatively short notice:

- GTX 1060 launch was moved forward (and probably also price went down) in reaction to RX 480
- AMD renamed their notebook models to keep the same branding as desktop models (likely as reaction to Nvidia's move)

 

Right, so everything is one step up. Why would nVidia do that, I've got no idea... oh well. At least the 1060 would perform decently now.

 

Because it makes a good narrative for the press :



Expect updated version of this chart soon, with Pascal at ~90% mark (and dropped M). Or if they feel cocky, just a single entry point for Pascal.

 

I know right? My personal take is that people are too attached to the names of things, instead of seen what something is for what it is.

Like people rationalizing 1080 is the replacement of 980 because nvidia said so and because the numbers align, yet the pricing due to FE scam makes it more like a successor of a 980ti.

Anyways, to be honest, names don't matter, I just want to see how it pans and what it will require. I'm a bit too hopeful heh...

 

While I agree this naming adds to the confusion, I'm sure that's why nvidia chose to symbolically abandon the M name tag, to make it somewhat clear it's not the old scheme anymore. They can now proudly state "we closed the gap between desktop and laptop performance" as you can see in the graph in a post above.

Also, they could have crippled all 3 desktop cards and continue the mobile M scheme as it was in the past (680M is a crippled desktop 670 and so on). I'm glad they didn't, because while it is ridiculously expensive, enthusiasts can get comparable performance in both notebooks and desktops, add a desktop CPU in the mix and it sounds like a fully equipped mobile powerhouse (that comes at least at double or 2.5x the price of a desktop, but hey, it's a first step).

 

Why does that say desktop 680 is faster than 980m, is it actually?

 

Is 480 desktop faster than 980m?
You shouldn't read the image that way

 

Well, taking their names at face value, the XX60 series definitely has massively improved. Whatever the case, I'm happy. Since when has a mobile X60 chip reached performance of the previous gen's X80 desktop card?

 

Thing is 1060 (mobile) doesn't replace 960m, it replaces 970m, it is actually common for the X70 cards to beat the X80 gpu of previous generations, I think we can safely say 1060 (mobile) will perform nowhere near 1060 desktop or 980, what was the stated TDP again 65W-75W? it will be around 980m probably, give or take 5-10% .

 

much easier to do once you cripple the x80 line.

GTX 980 is not the flagship of the maxwell line at all. not even close.

 

It was at launch, though. We could possibly see Pascal based "Ti" cards down the line, too.

 

I couldn't careless about the name
Most of people who's talking here are more aware of performance than price
What we know is we clasify the highend into 4 level

Note : X = any generation of nvidia (fermi,kepler,maxwell,pascal)

Entry level = GX-107
Mid level = GX-106
High end = GX-104 (less core and clock)
Top end = GX-104 full fledge
Name can confuse but not the chip
Now for pascal we will most probably have
GX-106
GX-104 less core and clock
GX-104 full fledge less clock

Starting price:
GX-106 ~ 1900$ USD
GX-104 less core and clock ~ 2400$ USD
GX-104 full fledge less clock ~ 3000$++ USD

This is indirectly saying
To enter a gaming zone, you need 2000$ at least!
I mean wtf, it was never this much
Last gen, we can get GX-106 for 1100$ As starting price

Now let's compare it mobile phone technology launch price

Samsung galaxy S = 529$
Samsung galaxy S2 = 529$
Samsung galaxy S3 = 550$
Samsung galaxy S4 = 550$
Samsung galaxy S5 = 579$
Samsung galaxy S6 = 579$
Samsung galaxy S7 = 599$
100$ difference for 7 generations
And they are most selling phone in the world

Apple (lowest capacity)
Iphone
Iphone 3G
Iphone 4
Iphone 4s
Iphone 5
Iphone 5S
Iphone 6
Iphone 6s

All launched with same price!!
Since 2007!!
649$ USD
You think there is no improvement in mobile phone? Hell no

Apple ipad pro cpu and samsung S7 cpu now is as fast as ULV intel i5 (2016) improved from pentium 3 level (2007)
Gpu wise they are on nvidia GT420M improved from intel atom onboard gpu
Screen? They make screen 10 times more beautiful screen than any laptop!

So yeah technology will always improve and flagship product has always been the same or almost the same at LAUNCH

It's like how the price of TV LCD Full HD back in 2006 was 1000$
And a 4K UHD TV now is 1000$


It's ******** if anyone says, the cost of making this generation is more expensive than the last one

GG nvidia

 

I agree with most of what you said, but not this about (cr)apple. The only reason why they launch every product at the same price is not because there is no improvement in their mobile phones or them being nice, but because their profit margins on each phone are ridiculously high at about 300% of the production cost. Just 2 sources, here and here.

It seems like Nvidia tries to copy Apple's approach yet exploits the price insensitivness particularly of "mobile gamers" and the correspondingly low elasticity of demand. IMO, just shrewd business sense, and they can get away with it because AMD gave up trying to compete in the high end department.

 

I did not say 'flagship', nor did I say the X80 was the flagship of the Maxwell line. The flagship doesn't matter, since I didn't mention it at all. I was comparing just a given generation's x60 mobile GPU versus the previous generation's x80 desktop GPU. Case in point: comparing the GTX 860M and the 780, 780 is clearly at least 2x as powerful (using Fire Strike scores).

Now, based on the current GTX 1060 mobile's performance leaks, it nets a score of 11000 Graphics on Fire Strike. The 980 achieved ~12000. This is, whatever anyone says, incredible.

I don't care which GPU the 1060 replaces, but within its own generation and for its TDP bracket, it is a winner.

Also... no. The 970M achieved ~ 7500 on Fire Strike, the 780 achieved ~ 9500-10000. That's a 33% difference for the 970M. This is what I'm talking about.

Why does everyone harp on: 'Oh, the 1060 replaces the 970M'? TDP and even chip-wise, that statement is wrong. 970M = GM204, ~ 80 W TDP. Its replacement ought to be GP104, not, as we claim, the 65 W GP106 in the 1060. Perhaps price-wise we may see a leap, but what can we do?

 

Only a much lower sales of gaming laptops than expected can force lower prices. High sales only motivate to still have the same high prices. Same over all.

 

Full 2560 core Pascal mobile GPU? With GDDR5X?

My body is ready. So very ready.

Sales of GTX 1080 laptops never get off the ground. Then NVIDIA says "oh our customers clearly aren't interested in desktop-class performance GPUs in mobile form factors anymore so with Volta GV107 will be the mobile flagship" Such would be our luck

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

No GDDRX, just regular GDDR5. 2560 shaders but reduced clocks & TDP, nothing that can't be dealt with (i.e. overclocking through a custom vbios).

For the record, my body is so very ready too.

 

Anyone hear about ASUS G752VM with GTX 1060? Apparently there will be such a laptop soon. Price wise it's around G752 with 970M.

 

lers just wait and see IF the 1060 mobile will actually have a 65W TDP, cuz thats the key point here. 1070 mobile wih 2048 cores is already at 150W, 1080 likely at 175-200W. so 1060 might very well be around 80-125W!

and it would also make sense, think about it: 1060 desktop has an "official" TDP of 120W with real life wattages reaching up to 200W when peaking. do u REALLY think nvidia will be able to shrink down TDP envelope that far and not completely cripple performance? no way, jose! thats why the 1060 replaces the 970M, because both the performance and the TDP would be in line with exactly that

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

Who started this "1060 is replacing the 970M" rumor, lol?

You do know what replace means, right? Ha ha.

 

then just replace "replace" with "succeed", jeez everybody knows what is meant by that splitting hairs, much?

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

The 1060 is not "replacing" or "succeeding" anything because there has never been a desktop x60 series card in a laptop before this year.

The 960M is being replaced by a 1060M.
The 970M is being replaced by a 1070M.
The 980M is being replaced by a 1080M.

The only difference this year is that there will be a "desktop class" 1060 and 1070 available in certain laptops, just as there was still a 980M and "desktop class" 980 available in laptops during 2015.

The desktop card TDP's are far too high to replace everything as they are.

 

Sigh. Wet blankets, wet blankets everywhere. And here I was hyped up for the 1060 notebook. My hype train has derailed, crashed and burned.

Would there at the very least (possibly) be a P640RE refresh with the 1060? I just want my small, powerful notebook, that doesn't cost too much. Please, Clevo? Is that too much to ask? A $1500 14" notebook with the GTX 1060?