Pascal: What do we know? Discussion, Latest News & Updates: 1000M Series GPU's

Well, I could be overlooking a lot then - I'm sure the TDP will be lower in the mobile version, but desktop vs laptop thermal comparisons are not my area of expertise. So I'll just wait and see.

Shouldn't be too long of a wait, right? It is the first week of August now, so...

 

Take a guess as to where I'm pulling my heat knowledge from.

 

I have been without laptop now for a week in my job since my old msi died Hope i get rewarded for my patience nvidia. Give us the news

sent from Nexus 5X

 

TDP doesn't matter nearly as much as you'd think. The 1080 runs as hot as, or hotter than, the Maxwell Titan X, which has 70W higher TDP AND is known to be somewhat power-starved by default. Thermal density is a big part of it. Maxwell was unnaturally cool. Kepler was pretty decent (8GB 880M excepted). Fermi was generally considered pretty hot, and Pascal is hotter than Fermi. Laptops aren't cooling that.

Machines like the Razer Blade and such? They'd probably be lucky if they could cool a 1040M. Mobile 1060 is WAY out of the question. 1050 probably will be too. All those thin machines shoving 970Ms and barely cooling them like the Gigabyte Aero 14? They might as well forget Pascal exists. They would probably need to sell that thing with a 970M/965M until Volta comes out, because the Pascal card they can put in those superthin, awfully-cooled machines would probably be weaker than the maxwell cards they already can put in it.

 

NVIDIA Mobile GeForce Pascal series to be announced at Gamescom

 

Agree well with the 8.16 announcement in China.

 

Same sort of article here: http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20160801PD200.html

I wonder what the gap between manufacturers showcasing their new laptops and them actually be made available to buy will be like?

 

Again from the Chinese source, you can get it before Sept. Someone even says it will be available on the same day of the announcement. So it should be pretty fast.

 

Brilliant - I need to buy something really heavy, really ugly and really expensive.

 

Some benchmarks of the *GTX M1070*. Please take it as a grain of salt.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4706980283

 

Seems plausible, the numbers are pretty much in line with other leaks of notebook GTX 1070.

Spoiler: Other notebook GTX 1070 stats

Also 3dmark firestrike graphics performance seems to match: 17,600 points vs 16,893 points from the earlier leak.



So that would give plausibility also to the new info they gave - measured 120 watts TDP and GPU frequency variations:

 

17,600 seems a little high, no? That's what the desktop version is getting on some tests.

I'm not complaining though!

 

http://videocardz.com/62730/nvidia-mobile-geforce-pascal-series-to-be-announced-at-gamescom

 

We are in the last quarter of the year, 2017 is on the line so should we wait for kaby lake and Volta laptop?

 

Question is which notebook were these benches taken in? If not a standard MXM card or BGA, won't help me.. I'm hoping we have some standard sized MXM cards..

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In one of those GPU-Z images, the Device ID is not censored (10DE-1BA1). Can we find out which branded notebook has it with that information or is too unreliable?

 

For that particular image we already do know where it came from - it was MSI GT72 successor (so likely GT72VR).

That newest Chinese leak mentions HP, but that's via Google Translate, so it could be just a mistake (as far as I'm aware HP doesn't have notebooks which could house such GPU, maybe except some workstations that have bigger Quadros?).

For other possibilities: we also know the most of Clevo models already do have Pascal-refreshed models, some Asus notebooks had leaks too, and Nvidia used Dell Precision workstation with presumably Pascal Quadro for SIGGRAPH demo.

 

I Wonder what the Price will be for 17 laptop with 1080 "m" when a desktop 980 laptop cost least 2700usd here in Sweden.

sent from Nexus 5X

 

It won't be less than that.

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17" EliteBooks/ZBooks are MXM-B, the latest ZBook offers M5000M (980m), earlier models can be upgraded with it as well. The thing is what GPUs are you (we) going to get? My only hope (for a while now) for a standard MXM-B GPUs were MobileWorkstations (the above mentioned as well as the DELL's 17" Precision, forget about P70, because lenovo) and it seems that I was right about that. Their newest revisions don't seem to have space for odd shapes, and it's not like they update the chassis every so often. Actually both companies just released their newest iterations and if the past is any indication they usually keep the chassis design for at least two generations. Let's say that there would be MXM-B Pascals, then comes the Quadro mark-up. As an added bonus - no SLi. And that question again, which would be the top offering? I said that 1070 would be the best MXM-B, but that might not be the case (even though Quadros are (almost) always better binned). Anyway, MXM-B eventually would remain what it used to be in first place - easier part swap. That's rather unfortunate. As always, time will tell, let's see how things would pan-out.

 

Ill say at least 3000$.

2700 will be the absolute lowest.


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Any news if the 1000m series will be compatible with previous CLEVO(NP9377 s)?

 

We will not know until the NDA ends.


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Still waiting for @Meaker@Sager's hints!

 

It is now the year 2156...


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Volta for mainstream is 2018

 

Totally, wouldn't expect them to push Volta so fast.

In fact, I'm amazed that they're taking so much before pushing Pascal.

 

Volta for Tesla MUST be out in 2017. That means Volta must be finished by 2017. Mainstream will probably take a little time so they can milk Pascal a bit more but we should see it in 2018, maybe early 2018. Pascal isn't anything special and they must know that, I would think they'd be quick to get rid of it. They probably won't get many mobile card sales from Pascal either because of how hot it is and how almost every machine won't be able to use even the midrange cards because EVERYONE made every machine so ridiculously thin because Maxwell was just that cool.

What do you mean by "taking so much before pushing Pascal"?

 

$1800 for 1060 sounds right for you?

 

I think you should be safe with that figure, yes

 

Super! Otherwise I have to pick up an old 980m machine.

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New leak - bunch of Asus G752VS models with GTX 1070 from shop in Belgium / France:

ASUS G752VS-GC018T - 2 499,00 €
Intel Core i7-6700HQ 16GB SSD + 256GB HDD 1TB 17.3 "Full HD LED G-SYNC NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 Burner Wi-Fi DVD AC / Bluetooth Webcam Windows 10 Family 64-bit (2-year manufacturer warranty)
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...che/PB00213061.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

ASUS G752VS-GC018T - 2 519,83 €
Intel Core i7-6700HQ 16GB SSD + 256GB HDD 1TB 17.3 "Full HD LED G-SYNC NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 Burner Wi-Fi DVD AC / Bluetooth Webcam Windows 10 Family 64-bit (2-year manufacturer warranty)
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...che/PB00213061.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

ASUS G752VS-GC021T - 2 999,00 €
Intel Core i7-6820HK 64GB SSD + 512GB HDD 1TB 17.3 "Full HD LED G-SYNC NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 Burner Wi-Fi DVD AC / Bluetooth Webcam Windows 10 Family 64-bit (2-year manufacturer warranty)
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...che/PB00213064.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Description parts about GTX 1070:

They show availability from August 5th, 2016.

 

Well, there you have it, the 5th

 

Awww yisss, finally some European leaks!

 

Pricing is as I predicted, expensive as ****. 2500 Euros for the base 1070 model, thats about 2800$ on its own.

Rest in peace, future GTX 1080 owners...

 

And here is the same Asus G752VS model in Fnac - one of the biggest shops in France - availability as " coming soon":

Laptop Asus ROG G752VS-GC018T 17.3"
Processor: Intel Core i7-6700HQ 2.6 GHz to 3.5 GHz, Memory: 16 GB Storage: 1TB + 256GB SSD, Screen 17.3 "Optical drive: SATA 8.9" 8X Super Multi with Double Layer

http://www.fnac.com/PC-Portable-Asus-ROG-G752VS-GC018T-17-3/a9930868/w-4

It's finally happening

 

The dream is over RIP i was hoping for 1070 but now i should go down too 1060

sent from Nexus 5X

 

Minus VAT is about 2100 EUR. It might be $2100 in US since we know the prices of electronic devices are higher in EU.

 

Who cares about the price of this, because on the French-translated picture provided from the ASUS link, it has specs shown on the bottom of the ASUS display page just above the warranty information given that includes "FOOD".
That is cool to have a high-end laptop that is not just for gaming, but is EDIBLE as well...
This is going to be the most tasty and expensive laptop lunch that we have ever had.


FOOD
Number of cells 8
GUARANTEES
commercial warranty 1 year seller
legal guarantee See terms
ASUS

 

Wow, that is absurdly overpriced even when accounting for the usual issues with buying electronics in France. The GPU is literally the only high-end component of that laptop (the display, CPU and storage range from mediocre to bad) and the machine weighs 4.3kg or nearly 10lb. I hope those are placeholder prices because otherwise nobody is going to buy that thing.

 

I thought that Pascal will be pushed into sales much faster. Since in Romania, they pulled all laptops with Maxwell a while ago. Everything was on sale for the past 3 months, with prices like 30% off or even better.

This is why it lacks to make sense to me why the Pascal was delayed until this point.

At any rate, you're right, all new laptops were made so think that besides thicker DTRs, nothing will be able to cool off those cards. Maybe the mid range, which is very strong will be cooled off in thin laptops, which is great, because everyone gets better performance than last generation. But for higher prices.

If an 1050 beats 970 [?], mid range owners will be happy either way. If the same people who could afford a 950m will also be able to afford an 1050 lol.

All in all, desktop owners seem happy with 1080 while laptop owners don't seem better than 9XX generation.

Welcome to Asus I guess?

French prices are high in general. But Asus laptops were never on the cheap side. Thing that actually happened in here: an Asus ROG costs double the price of an Acer with the exact same components, so.... yeah...

Asus ROG thingy supreme with it's water cooler is more expensive than P870.

 

Thank you, this has been incredibly informative - and depressing. I did not know that Pascal mobile was expected to run so hot. I've been holding out to buy a laptop with a mobile 1060 thinking that it would give me the power of a 980m in a cooler, smaller, lighter, and cheaper laptop. Now I'm beginning to see that none of this will end up being true - a mobile 1060 is going to have to be large, heavy and bulky for cooling, and all indications are that it's still going to cost roughly as much as the 980m anyway. Wonderful...

eGPUs, here I come.

 

For those in need of a thin and sleek laptop, strong GPUs are hard to cool off, this is mostly why we have to make compromises. But 980m thin laptops and 960m very thin and small laptops existed too. Not at 1060 power level, but still, they are pretty good, especially for the price.

 

Indeed. And I had hoped that after Maxwell, which as D2 Ultima described has been an "unnaturally cool" generation of GPUs, the trend would continue in the direction of nvidia producing even cooler GPUs. 970m GPUs have been put in thin and light 14" laptops like the GS40 and P640RE with relatively decent cooling, and I had been mistakenly thinking that thermals would only get better with Pascal. Now I'm hearing that things are actually going to slide backward, so that rather than seeing something like a new, lighter Razer that has even better cooling than the current Maxwell versions, we'll be returning to bulkier and larger laptops to accommodate Pascal.

I'm not particularly interested in gaming-on-the-go and would be best served by something thin and light, so I now will be exploring eGPU options to pump up gaming performance with a Pascal desktop card at home. Disappointed...

 

See, desktop users don't give a flying meowmix about "heat", or "TDP", because they'll easily just toss a better cooler at it, or simply get a liquid cooled card. And they buy 850W-1000W PSUs for what we run on 330W bricks. Higher power draw and AIB cards that fix what nVidia and AMD leave broken on reference cards are common, and on laptops that simply doesn't happen either. In other words, we already get the short end of the stick, paying more for less (and as of maxwell after the first few months, MUCH worse components and garbage OC-ability) and then the OEMs want to spend the absolute minimum amount of cash to make a machine "work" before selling it. At least there's much more high quality parts in desktops.

I don't know about mobile 1060s being "large, heavy and bulky". You might get a P6xxRE sized machine holding it without much issue. The dual fan and the heatsink design would suit it well. It shouldn't cost nearly as much as a 980M. I'd expect you could probably get a machine like that around $1200-$1300 USD. But that's with the 1060. And most of the machines in the size class of the P6xxRx laptops are much worse cooled.

As for eGPUs, good luck. There are TWO good models I've witnessed: MSI's GS30 Shadow solution and Alienware's Graphics Adapter solution. All the others either don't have nearly enough bandwidth (old solutions form USB 3.0 days or earlier) or use Optimus type solutions (like the Razer Core or ASUS' as-yet-unreleased option) because people are stupid, don't realize the downsides, and only care that it's "plug and play" and "doesn't require a reboot". If and when the headaches hit them they'll just blame laptops for being awful again. Know why proper solutions aren't plug & play? Because WINDOWS is incapable of changing the primary graphics adapter on the fly. OS X can do it. Microsoft just doesn't care.

I see. Well it makes some sense. But I'm just going to sit and laugh at everybody who insisted that Pascal would be cooler and stronger than Maxwell and laptop users will rejoice and be getting like, mobile 1080s in gigabyte's Aero 14 and stuff. Hilarious stuff. Good luck!

Honestly I don't know why it's taking so long, but I'm pretty bloody certain it has to do with actually having working cards. That can fit in SOME laptops. Maybe finding low-leakage chips or something.

Yeah. Everyone except Clevo basically capitalized on Maxwell without looking to the future. I felt that a single larger fan in the P6xxSx models for the GPU (because Maxwell was so cool) and the dual-fan for the CPU (because Haswell was SO hot) was the way to go... Skylake was cooler, so I figured it was sufficient for the P6xxRx models. But now with Pascal/Skylake, I think Clevo were planning for this the whole time. Bloody geniuses, that. 1060 should be cool-able (not highly overclockable though) in the P6xxRx chassis and the Skylake chips are cool enough (near stock anyway) to allow for those machines to work. 1070... not too sure about. But at least this will drive home the idea that superthin, superlight laptops are NOT what you want to buy for high performance. It never will be, no matter how small/cool/good tech gets. Because the larger space simply allows for more to be shoved in. I think the market has been rather deluded lately.

I think the 1050, should it come out anytime soon, will probably be around a 970M or 965M. Mobile GPUs usually have a rather large gap between them, like 30% or more, but the bottom barrel cards often have even bigger gaps. I'd be surprised if a 1050 hits desktop 970 performance.

We've actually been saying it for many months. Just everyone was super skeptical about it. @Ethrem called Pascal being extremely hot since like late last year or something.

Razer does NOT improve cooling. They cut out as much as possible each gen. Sockets and materials, anything they can save a few $$ (and possibly some size) with, and either keep prices the same or raise prices. They make AWFUL laptops. AWFUL. I know there's people who have them and actually have no problems with them, or don't mind/notice the problems that exist, but in general they're just overpriced, overheating pieces of crap. Don't expect much from them. I would laugh if they shove a 1060 into their 14" and it can't even hold base clocks in an A/C room.

Sorry to break your bubble above xD.

 

Thank you, this gives me some hope. I may hold off for a Pascal P6xxRE yet!

I hadn't looked too hard at the Asus option yet, but now I know to steer clear of it. And I'm not a fan of Alienware. So barring something new and unexpected coming out soon (please, Clevo? ), pretty much the sole option I'm considering is the MSI dock. Their new eGPU Gaming Dock Mini for the GS32 Shadow is much smaller and more manageable than their older dock, and it still rocks a full PCIe x 16 connection. Now if only they'd make a decent laptop available to connect to it...

I had heard that Razer had poor cooling, though didn't realize it was quite that bad. Still, they're overpriced even compared to other overpriced laptops, and their Razer Core is an incredibly overpriced and subpar eGPU solution. I'm surprised about the number of people who buy Razer Blades when products like the GS40 and P640RE seem to be of better quality and are better priced.

Nah it's not you, it's crummy nVidia and manufacturers. I'd rather be hit with the bad news sooner than later anyway

 

I'm fairly sure there are diy egpu solutions out there there's a hole section on this forum & techinferno covering them ive not looked into the matter much my self but id imagine you could build a usb 3.1 diy solution with a full water block & 240mm rad & that would be pretty sweet & probably last a good few laptops as well

 

前几日，CJ站台上惠普的某新机型出现了全新的帕斯卡显卡，虽然名字没有显示，但从规格来看，毫无疑问就是新的M1070

GP104核心，2048SP，标称频率1443-1645MHz，显存等效8008MHz，容量8G，镁光GDDR5


这是台式机GTX1070的参数，可以看到，笔记本的M1070，虽然核心频率不及桌面版1070，但核心多了128SP，这是以往不可能见到的情况，笔记本同型号高于台式机显卡的规格。
看到这个，我觉得我更倾向于另外一个真相：实际M1070原本是当1080M做的，后来不知道怎么了，NV突然拍板决定取消了M结尾的笔记本型号，于是1080M改名M1070，规格没有改动，成了现在这样。


频率没减多少，多了128SP，看起来好像比1070还强，实际如何呢？


表中的GTX980Ti是非公显卡，频率可达1.4GHz，所以M1070追不上是正常的


M1070跑分最终还是略低于公版1070，但还是超过了980TI公版的水平，这个结果已经相当可观了。



GPGPU的理论性能测试表现也很好



从规格上看，M1070是优于1070的，然而实际性能不足，显然跟频率和功耗有关。
台式机1070最大频率可达2G，实际M1070也能到，但几乎都是昙花一现，在游戏的开始界面或者非常低负载而又不锁帧数的时候才能看到，进游戏后必降频，跑分更是。


上面是Heaven测试时的频率功耗变化，可以看到，M1070大多数时间都在1650MHz附近，功耗则控制在了120W左右。
实际其他跑分也差不多，频率大多在1650MHz上下，这说明M1070的功耗控制还是很保守的，频率随时会因为功耗不足而降低，标称boost 1645MHz实际也就差不多了。


至于功耗120W，我觉得这就是TDP了，从整机功耗监测来看，单烤GPU时的功耗跟980M也确实相当。
这意味着M1070对位的型号就是980M，现有所有能上980M显卡的机器，理论上都可以搞定M1070，新的机器同模具的肯定也会有M1070的版本


所以M1070的机器，卖的比980M还贵点就可以理解了，同定位的产品，只是名称变了而已

 

Fast translation:

Basic fact, 1070m is 2048 cuda core part with 8008mhz gddr5 but is lower actual performance than 1070 due to clock. 120w tdp.

Theoretically all current 980m laptop can run 1070m(I dont agree) and possible higher price than 980m based machines before.

 

It's interesting that none of the leaks have concerned the mGTX 1080 for while - I wonder if it's coming later.