Pascal: What do we know? Discussion, Latest News & Updates: 1000M Series GPU's

Anyone want to drink my salty tears?

But yeah, at least for the new P870DM2, its about 2.5mm thicker. So to use its parts in the old P870DM, people will have to buy new heat sink and the new bottom cover as well. "IF" the internal structure is still the same, which might actually be the case, since the port placement seems to be similar.

 

I don't have 980 yet, was in the process of ordering it. Still waiting on 1080 before making final decision lol.

Regardless, both and all three and everything from 970m up was able to FHD extreme gaming, and 4k gaming to a certain degree, and none so far can do extreme 4k gaming.

At any rate, I for one, am still waiting.

 

Can't argue with no P775DM thread much, it should have at least been included into the P770DM thread (they're basically the same machine).

Except.. the P775DM is about as expensive as the P870DM (give or take) and only has 3 USB 3.0 Type A ports (as opposed to the 4 on the P770DM and 5 on the P870DM), can't hold the full 980, etc. I mean, it's a fine enough machine, but there really is little reason to actually get one, as far as I can tell. I don't blame Sager for not carrying it, just like I don't blame them for not carrying the P6xxRA models (you know, the ones with 965M cards?)... people just wouldn't buy them so much.

But either way, partner shops for Prema are the best places to get Clevos. As for your last sentence about quality control monster, what they are is the middleman for most of the US supply of Clevos. If you want to buy Clevo shells in the US, you usually go through Sager. OriginPC, AVADirect, Falcon Northwest, etc? All of them grab through Sager. It's possibly why Sager has the cheapest prices; they don't have to go through some other middleman.

Full mobile 1080 will properly be 60% or so better than mobile 980, just like the desktop card is. It won't be under 50% better.

980M configs costing $3750 USD? I don't know about THAT. I know MSI overpriced their stuff so hard I have VIDEO EVIDENCE of a GT72 with 980M mirroring-spec a P377SM-A with 980M SLI had the Clevo come out cheaper when 900M came out.

 

So, what's going inside all of these smaller form factor notebooks then? No way they'll be stuffing full-pledged desktop 1080's in 15" notebooks.

 

This thread confused me.
I wanted to see if I'd find any information or leaks about the mobile GPUs to be included in the next gen notebooks, but all I see are people nagging about buying desktop GPUs and mixing their talks with rumors about Notebooks. WTF?

 

She'll be right... She'll be right. If any crew is gonna make it work.. You're in the right place

 

Here's finally the solid news that Clevo let it out - from the *Official P870DM2/DM3* Lounge. Check out the manuals and you'll find the sweet news of confirming 1070, 1070SLI, 1080 and 1080SLI configs with extra added TB3, updated heatsinks, 2mm more Z height for more cooling perhaps and no BGA trash, no news of MXM3.0b though for now, fingers crossed for this !

Goodbye MSI !

Spoiler

ASUS / Alienware / GB are not even worthy to mention

 

These are 15" notebooks we already do know about:

MSI GE62VR - GTX 1060
MSI GS63VR - GTX 1060
MSI GT62VR - GTX 1060 / GTX 1070

For these ones we can make some educated guesses:

Clevo P750DM2-G - GTX 1060 / GTX 1070
Clevo P650RS-G - GTX 1060 / probably also GTX 1070 (less sure here than with P750 model)

 

Are you certain those are actually the desktop variants, though? There may be some naming mix up going on.

 

Add in official support for XMP ram up to 3000Mhz

 

I know you still keep hopes for M variants , but I'm already quite convinced Nvidia will launch them under GTX 1060 / 1070 / 1080 names (this August, the first wave of notebook Pascals).

In any case, notebook GTX 1060 and 1070 already had plenty of leaks, so we know what they are, independently of whether they would launch as GTX 1060/1070 or GTX 1070m/1080m (few leaks used these names, I believe they referred to exactly the same GPUs, just Nvidia changed their mind at some point; AMD has official paper trail of re-naming their mobile Polaris GPUs, quite likely as reaction to this, Nvidia just kept quiet).

 

I just don't see why they would stop producing the M series chip, even if they change the name. The mobile Quadro uses the same process. It would be very profitable for them to sell both a dekstop 1080 and a 1080M in a laptop, basically targeting all niche markets. The M series also allows them to enter products like the Macbook.

 

Dude just pretend like the y're still producing M chips, because they are. These are the same lower TDP variants we've always received from Nvidia.

No manufacturer bases their use of Nvidia chips on what they're named. Hell the manufacturers themselves probably pushed Nvidia to stop with the confusing naming schemes.

All the laptop makers care about are pricing and TDP tiers, which are remaining exactly as they always have been in the past. Why would Apple care if the card is named GTX 1050M or GT 1040?

I'm having a hard time understanding your hang up with this.

 

I invest in NVIDIA and advise those who do, too. It doesn't make sense from a strategist's perspective to discontinue mobile GPU's.

I'm not "hung up" on anything. Just trying to understand the rumors... They're all conflicting.

 

They will still cover all the same niches as before:

- notebook GTX 1060/1070/1080 will take care of high-end gaming market (what used to get GTX 970M/980M/980)

- some new yet unknown Pascal chips will take care of GTX 950/960/965M "value gaming" niche (expected to come in second wave of Pascal GPUs, later this year, naming is wild guess, but could be 1050 / 1050 Ti)

- they will probably recycle some Maxwells for low-end niche (what's today GeForce 940M / 930M / 920M)

For Quadros, it would go as usual: these'll be variants of GeForce GPUs. So far we had just a single leak about some very high-end notebook Pascal Quadro, likely equivalent of GTX 1070 (or maybe even GTX 1080).

-------

Right now they kinda left a hole at ~GTX 965M level, which AMD is going to fill soon with notebook RX 460, and possibly even at ~GTX 970M level for notebook RX 470, but this will not last for long.

BTW here is also where Macbook comes to play - pretty much certain new Macbook will get one of these Polaris GPUs (could be some custom variant).

 

I suppose that makes more sense, haha. Guess only time will tell.

For now, I'll play things safe.

 

lol no. That is impossible. It simply will not cool. At all.

All those smaller form factor notebooks (anything Gigabyte P3*x, anything Aorus, anything Razer, anything MSI GS and GE) cannot use any of the Pascal chips. Not 1060, not 1070 and certainly not 1080.

My judgement is that if they slightly revamp the cooling on the P6xxRx series, 1060s will be fine (because those kept 980Ms real nice and cool) and 1070s will be hot but manage-able (at stock, at least). But that's only because of the double-fan solution that was WAY overboard for any Maxwell card they ever shoved in those machines. A solution no other "slim" notebook line has managed to make. I'm not even sure the Alienware machines could handle a 1070 without issue.

 

Wow, guess we get some news on August 3 after all Whoops.

 

It was supposed to be an Asus announcement

Good news on the Clevo, but it requires 2 PSU's to operate the 1080 SLI (2x 330w) and 1070 SLI (2x 240w) so says the manual:

Here is the page from the new P870 Pascal model, quite serious about requiring 2x PSU operation at all times:

" The Power Sources

The computer can be powered by either the 2 AC/DC adapters and power converter supplied, or by a battery pack.

AC/DC Adapters and Power Converter

Use only the AC/DC adapters and converter that come with your computer. The wrong type of AC/DC adapter will damage the computer and its components.

1. You must use the power converter supplied with the dual AC/DC adapters connected to power this computer. Do not use a single AC/DC adapter to power the system.

2. Attach the power converter to the DC-In jack at the rear of the computer then plug AC/DC adapters into the jacks at the rear of the converter. Plug the AC power cords into an outlet, and connect the AC power cords to the AC/DC adapters"

The MSI GT83 is also using 2x330w PSU's with a new dual PSU power converter.

No word on the GT73 1070 SLI PSU requirements, but without the 6700K the GT73 should be able to run on a single 330w PSU - about the same power draw as the previous GT80 980m SLI which works fine on a single 330w PSU.

 

@D2 Ultima, when you say the P6xxRx series, do you include in there the 14" P640RE? I hope that they'll manage to stick and properly cool a 1060 in a 14" model.

Also, I do wonder if MSI might find a way - there's indications that they're working on a GS43 "Phantom Pro" with a 1060.

 

At-least there's no Hybrid Battery gimping crap or Throttlefest, Glad to have the Clevo and MSI go full ham with 1080 SLI, 2x330W - True DTRs !! This fires a hole in those BGA KoolAid targeted machines, Alienware and Mr. Frank Azor hope you are listening...

 

Just FYI MSI did indeed revamp cooling of GS series for Pascals - GS63VR / GS73VR will come with 2 fans for GPU + 1 fan for CPU (just like Clevo P6XX series did already for Maxwells, so these chassis should be fine).

No idea about GE series, though there are already leaks about GE62VR having GTX 1060.

No info yet about any Gigabyte / Razer / Aorus refreshes.

BTW notebook GTX 1060 is supposed to have ~10 watts higher TDP than GTX 970M, while GTX 1070 is supposed to have ~10 watts higher TDP than GTX 980M.

 

Actually, that machine probably won't do it. I was only considering the P65x and P67x, because they could handle 980Ms very well and had the dual-fan GPU-only cooling system, which the P640RE does not.

Yeah, if MSI changed their layouts (and thus the laptops themselves) then they could do it. That's good. Bring on the competition. But their existing systems? Not even close. GS60s have hit 90+ on 970Ms in A/C rooms, they're not handling Pascal.

To be clear, what I meant was "any existing laptop design" when I was talking about them. But good to see redesigns coming.

Aorus and Razer SELL the "thin and strong" monkier to people, heat/throttling/noise be damned. Aorus generally does a better job on their internals than Razer, but nothing they have now can hold a 1060. If they revamp to hold Pascal, their machines will get FAR thicker. It's required. I don't even know if the P65xRE and P67xRE can do it without the extra thickness that the P6xxRG models have. With the way Razer doesn't actually improve their cooling, I am pretty sure they're right pissed about now, since they kept shoving their laptops into smaller factors.

Gigabyte must be pissed too, they announced the Aero 14 and it's already a dead design. I think they'll have to move onto their P5*x model designs alone, up from their P3*x designs. I know there's a P55 and P57 that's about as thick as the P770ZM, so if they actually work at it those could work.

The TDP will matter a good bit for the slimmer laptops too. Even if they make them bigger, they're still generally at the limit of the power bricks, because they like to send the smallest brick they can (120W, 150W, whatever is the minimum to keep optimal operation because it remains small). So with extra TDP they're gonna need to upgrade. 180W will probably be the minimum for the 1060, and 220W minimum for the 1070.

 

Why not? It handled the 970M and the i7-6700HQ fairly well, and given that the 1060 is within the TDP range of the former card, I honestly see no reason why the 640RE couldn't take a 1060. In fact, I see 14-inchers being the perfect target market for the 1060, 15-17" for the 1070 and DTRs for the 1080. The 1050 would probably be stuck to 13 inch notebooks.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...00m-series-gpus.763032/page-554#post-10305518

 

Here is two points I dont think 1080 SLI is a good idea....

For 1080p, you are not gonna see much scaling and also whether HB is going be present is another question.

Better to go with a single GPU IMO. I would pray for a GP102 part in notebook, however it will probably cost over 2000USD+ just for the mxm card and even the P870DM might have a hard time cooling it.

 

The internal layout of P870DM2, doesn't seem to have too much of change.

The internal layout of P650/670, additional heat pipe connect the CPU and GPU.


The internal layout of P750/775DM2


Boring boring Chelsea

 

It looks like SLI 1070/1080 is not possible for P870DM users. The distance between the master and slave mxms is much nearer on the P870DM as compared to the P870DM2.

 

Damn !! WTH !
1070 3.0b hope, I guess It's over For that extra power odd MXM shape ? keeping the TDP at 120-130W there's no reason to go that route because the 980M already pulls over the 110W without any auxiliary power...And what about the 75x-77xZM/DM owners now & that SLI gap and others in the 870DM, what's this Clevo ?

Now thinking about the Kaby/Cannonlake refreshes with gen 2 Pascal or Volta later if they come up with HBM2 again then the 870DM-2/3 will be EOL paying such huge amounts of money for SOL again... I suppose I may go DT route for performance...very unfortunate.

EDIT: Whatever happens, I won't vote that BGA , If I have to quit NB gaming, OK fine. But not gonna buy BGA filth and these nasty practices to lock us out, this is new upgraded BGA, Seems like a socket but no guarantee or atleast a chance like the old times, First blow was Alienware's full 180 and now if the 1070 is confirmed with same form factor (Yeah, seems stupid to raise hope but but we are humans right..), GGWP RIP DTRs !!

 

The P870DM2 seems to be changed quite a bit, actually. The heatsinks and GPU fans have changed, and look much cleaner. The MXM slots are further apart, and dual power pins to dual GPUs wasn't there by default in the original to my knowledge. The side has also been modified to allow the power connectors to run to the GPUs without crossing any heatsinks etc.

The new P650/P670 appear to be less useful for OCing the CPU if they're going to be pulling GPU heat to that heatsink. 6820HKs need tons of voltage and will produce lots of heat, and the hot Pascal chips won't help at all. I wonder how those machines'd fare? And even then, I don't know how 1070s will be handled in warmer environments in those machines.

 

That's some nice info, thanks)

So, what I see on those pictures, assuming all DM laptops shown above are equipped with the same GTX 1070...

The GOOD part:

- P870DM2 has new heatsinks for SLI config without that curl with an old fashion umbrella look) 3 fans looks the same to me now. The placement of the internals is better than on the original P870DM, it's just correct now.
- All GTX 1070 cards for Clevo are identical in size (wider) and feature additional power connector. May be now it's somewhat future proof? Just don't mess it all up, Kaby...

The BAD part:

- As mentioned earlier, there's a capacitor between the GPUs on new P870DM2 to accomodate new wider cards.
- New power connector as well, dual required for P870DM2 and single for P750DM2/775DM2. Completely different heatsinks on all the models.
- Again, no mention of P770DM (for now), may be P775DM2 is a replacement.
- P750DM has more heatpipes than P775DM?? WTH
- From the looks of it, no GPU upgrade for current gen onwers((

 

I bet there's going to be a single 450W PSU for that thing... selling a dual-PSU-only laptop is kind of counter-productive.

I think we'll probably see a 1070 or 1060 in standard MXM format, but no 1080s. Not that any existing laptop can cool or power a 1080 properly. A P770ZM would require a properly lapped heatsink and delidded 4790K and max fans while being propped up just because of the heat bleeding with that shared heatsink. 6700K will survive a lot better, I suppose, but even then I suppose that's why the P775DM2 is getting it and not the P750DM2.

 

Damn, there goes the point of buying an "up-gradable" laptop. Looks like no current gen DM models will get upgrades and everyone would have to buy new systems. Damn near BGA status

BTW where'd you get all these pics from? Did I miss something? lol

 

To be honest, at least Volta probably will fit in these things if MXM happens. This is probably the turning point. But yeah, gg upgrade-ability. Maxwell parts have crap quality now and pascal parts are too hot/power hungry for current-gen laptop placement. Though, the GT72 MUST get a Pascal upgrade kit. It's part of the selling point for the original ones, the ones with the 880M. But Volta won't be guaranteed.

Someone released the Clevo service manuals by accident and well... gg.

 

Naw I don't think any of our current gen models will get Volta if we ain't getting Pascal. I think the newer revisions may have a better chance at that.

If we don't get desktop sli cards or any sli pascal set-up for our P870DM models I may just sell mine and go BGA and spend the rest on my desktop. If I need to buy a new laptop to accommodate new "upgrade-able" graphics cards I might as well go bga lol

I only went for the P870DM because it had sli support and seemed to be the most "future-proof" but we know nothing is future-proof.

 

False advertising if they don't get 2 upgrades. Then they'd get sued like nvidia did for the missing Maxwell/Async drivers or the 3.5+0.5GB ram on the 970s?

 

The main thing that irks me is the different power pin. Not too worried beyond that till we get more info.

@ssj92
I hear ya. If the goal posts are going to move every gen I'll not bother.
I doubt I'll go BGA though, but I get ya.

 

Of course, but the 1060 is a different chip altogether - GP106 vs GP104. Temperatures for the GTX 1060, even the Founders' Edition, have been relatively manageable - within 70°C. Plus, the notebook GPUs are probably going to be binned and under-clocked.

I fully believe that the P640RE will be capable of handling the 1060 - stock or otherwise.

 

You are thinking of the MSI promise for 2 Nvidia generations of MXM upgrades. Clevo didn't promise a GPU upgrade path.

 

Yeah, I was referring to MSI

 

Then nothing to worry about

 

When I said "these things" I meant "these new systems". Hence the "this is the turning point" I mentioned.

Yeah, I feel sad about the P870DM owners not getting upgrade-ability. That one is a pretty harsh blow.

The problem, is Pascal, not the 1080/1070 specifically. The P640RE does not sell with a 980M. 1060 is MUCH hotter than a 980M. It will not be cool-able in a P640RE.

Look at it:


That is not enough cooling. The P640RE is even so small it can't handle 9mm thick HDDs... 1TB 7200RPM drives doesn't even fit. You have to get 5400RPM or settle for 750GB or SSDs. That's WILDLY different than the P65x and P67x models. This thing ain't holding a 1060 as-is. It simply cannot.

Maxwell is "unnaturally cool". Pascal is "unnaturally hot". Machines designed to capitalize on Maxwell cannot use Pascal. Machines which were designed properly (and thus kept Maxwell extremely cool) could theoretically house Pascal... the problem THERE is the non-standard MXM designs letting every OEM/ODM do whatever they want. So could a P870DM cool 1070 SLI? You betcha. It probably needs the upgrade for 1080 SLI, but even so, its basic cooling design proves pretty much sufficient. However, as you heard, all those slim MSI models are now dual-fan GPU heatsink and obviously going to be thicker etc. P640RE in its current state which can't hold a 980M simply isn't going to hold a 1060.

 

Since nvidia did not release a reference MXM gpu, then we can assume MSI will probably design their own to fulfill that part of the bargain. Maybe.

Still, pretty sad news. I guess my 750ZM is out of luck too now.

 

Well only hope is getting the MSI one and having Prema make a Clevo vBIOS for it.. Going to need ultimate Prema cooking!!

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

'1060 is much hotter than a 980M' - how d'you know? In fact, how would anyone know? Has the 1060 for notebooks been released? I think not.

I mean, if that were really the case (aka Pascal is super-hot), then why on earth would nVidia have even used the full-fledged desktop chips for notebooks? From a business point of view, it doesn't make sense, not one bit.

As for 'Pascal is unnaturally hot' - I've read through several reviews of both the GTX 960 and the GTX 1060. Both GPUs, across the board, have load temperatures within 2-3°C.

 

There's an early indication of pricing here: http://sofiacomputers.net/laptopi-mobilni-komputri-ceni.php?id=19645 - it suggests £3200 / $4300 for the 1080 SLI

 

Well I wouldn't mind lower prices for that setup ;-)

 

Mobile Pascal TGP is actually 'LOWER' ( @stock vBIOS) than those of their Maxwell counter parts...

 

I don't need to see mobile GPUs. The desktop card IS THE SAME CHIP. And it's hot. Pascal is very hot. The coolers are well beyond what the cards need.

People say stuff like "Oh, reference 1080 and reference 980 run about the same heat". Yeah, and the coolers are different. Have you seen the Pascal Titan X cooler? Look at this massive hunk of vapor chamber. For a freaking 250W TDP card? Know what Maxwell's 250W TDP card needed? The cooler currently on the 1080, a 180W TDP card. The 1060 isn't suddenly going to be as cool as a 960 when every other part is so much hotter it's insane.

Why would nVidia use the full-fledged desktop chips? Got me there. It's marketing though, that sells cards. Most people have stigmas to the "M" attached to cards. Even if I clock my 780M to a desktop 680, people STILL make a stink because it's a laptop. I literally have a video on my youtube called "Please read the description" of Battlefield 4 on ultra getting ~100fps+ saying "If you think I can't run <insert game here> because laptop, here is how my system handles BF4" so I can easily shut people up.

Is this 1060 competing with 965M or 970M and 1070 competing with 970M or 980M? I assume 1080 is definitely competing with mobile 980.

 

970M (TGP 80W) is succeeded by 1060
980M (TGP 103W) is succeeded by 1070
980 (TGP 130-200W) is succeeded by 1080

Those leaked Clevo shots do not show the 980 successor, so relax guys. Current P870DM owner will be able to upgrade to a certain degree and with a little 'Prema love' it'll be Plug'n'Play, too.