Pascal: What do we know? Discussion, Latest News & Updates: 1000M Series GPU's

Might have to wait a bit myself... Been hearing a lot of chat about Volta now that I've asked around. There are also reports of Samsung's production scaling up Q4 of HBM2 for NVIDIA's next-gen GPU's. I still think they'll have another Pascal series with HBM, but who knows at this point.

More questions than answers at the moment. May have to hold onto my money.

 

Splitting hairs about fuzzy quantities wording isn't very productive

These are raw stats, interpret as you want:

GTX 970M ~= 57% of GTX 980
GTX 980M ~= 73% of GTX 980
GTX 1060 ~= 90% of GTX 980
GTX 1070 ~= 127% of GTX 980

 

Funny because that is the 14nm process of GloFo/Samsung used on AMD Greenland and CPUs!!! Imagine that, the process is that much better (possibly with hbm2), but AMD headed the budget route they decided to capture...

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Some form of Volta will probably tape out in Q1 2017.

 

AMD also reporting Vega may be launched as early as Q1 2017. - Read more

Things seem to be moving fast!

 

uhh, huh?

Anyways, raw stats talk, benchmarks walk. We will see soon when someone here benchs it.

 

Hmm...My purchasing descision just got more complicated.

I was planning to purchase a GTX 980m laptop like this MSI right here, but I'm hearing that these 10** series of mobile GPUs will come out soon.

Do we know how these will compare in terms of price and performance to 980m machines like the MSI I'm considering? Worth waiting?

 

Do we know which notebook was used in the 1060 firestrike score? I'm intrigued to see how far it will clock with an unlocked bios. At stock its on par with my mildly overclocked 980m!


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So, the mobile 1060 are 57% faster than the 970M, and 23% faster than the 980M.
The mobile GTX 980 is 11% faster than the mobile GTX 1060.

If it is true in real gaming benchmark, it is worth the upgrade from 970M then.

 

Actually in the early days before drivers was released to make them hit those scores. Notebook check recorded 980 with i7 3770k at 12590 fire strike score
1 thousand points difference isn't too far from the very 1stock 980. Much closer to it than a 970.


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I actually think the 1060 performs more closely to the 980 in games than it does synthetically in benchmarks.

At least the desktop 1060 videos I've seen put it ahead by a few FPS about 80% of the time. It's a powerful card.

 

is that graphics or overall score? If I disable SLI on my notebook I score over 13k graphics at stock with a 6920HQ. I don't doubt the 1060 will be faster, since it will overclock like hell.

 

Hmmm...stock runs for 980:

3DM11: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11469388

3DMFS: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/8148348

Slight overclock:

3DM11: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11223533

3DMFS: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/8148698

 

From that Prema quote,

My guess would be since Haswell or even Ivy maybe since M17x R4 also has the 120Hz eDP, I think they use the IC because the Alienwares have 2 ports on the MoBo, while the M15x uses traditional VGA from MXM might have helped it to take the 980M as well.

Spoiler: AW + maxwell

While the new AWs had UEFI BIOS GOP protocol requirements and causing the 120Hz/60Hz with Optimus only (Win7 60Hz Optimus only no PEG) not to boot without the 8.1+ full UEFI requirement or the sBIOS mod (locked on Haswell so nope cannot add them).

Maybe the AW18, M18x R2 are also compatible (?) All is wrong if he meant a single port for all connections.

We might need to experiment..Apologies for the OT, Just trying to catch up to these with at-least a superficial idea for old machines..

 

Stock graphics with 980 in 3DMFS is more like +13800P http://www.3dmark.com/fs/8623432

 

The drivers you are using are better for benchmarks. Not to mention your CPU is @ 4.8Ghz, which may slightly increase gpu score.

 

so really, looks like the notebook 980 is about 14% faster at stock than the laptop 1060. However I imagine in an overclock battle the 1060 will win.

 

I'm not sure about that...

I think we've all hit at least 1500mhz on our 980s from the stock 1228mhz clock (+272 increase).

The 1060 will have to overclock even higher especially if you want to first compensate for the performance difference.

 

The 1060 even being in the conversation with the 980 is pretty damn impressive.

 

ehh, 980 is ancient so I'm not surpised. What's keeping all these gpu's alive and relevant still is lazy devs not taking advantage of them. 4K is the only thing that will boost the need for better gpus right now.

 

Not to mention that now we've seen some inkling of prices (around $1200-$1600), it'll actually target buyers who currently have the 850M/860M/950M/960M GPUs...

I still cannot wrap my head around how they managed this.

Yes, I know TDP-wise the 1060 hits the 970M segment, but prices are what matter to 90% of gamers. For example, in desktops:

A GPU is ~$250-300? Mid-range!
$100? Low end!
$700? High end!
$5000? Insane!

Likewise for laptops. I don't think much of the gamer market (who play DoTA, CSGO and LoL) look at or bother about TDP. They just think 'oh, my laptop's getting hot'.

Well, that's a simple and rather mundane problem to fix: make a bigger chip with more cores.

As already mentioned: we need physically-based rendering hardware, rather than hardware which uses tricks to shade a scene. That will be a true challenge. Advanced anti-aliasing techniques, realistic fluid and weather simulation. Ray-tracing, photon mapping. String and thread physics (i.e. a more advanced and generalised implementation of HairWorks). Subatomic/electron valence simulation.

Turns out all these are computationally very, very expensive. Can't simply get a graphics pipeline to do it, because the latter is optimised to rely on a shader map, polyhedron vertices and texture .png files and post-processing to make the whole thing look good. All tricks, to make things look real.

In short: what Witcher 3 promised to be, vs what it actually was graphically. It still looks great, but... meh. Low-poly garlic. @octiceps

 

Actually, most gamers be like, "My laptop randomly shutdown while playing this game and fire was coming out the back, is it overheating?"



Nah bro, it's fine. It's supposed to do that - this new afterburner effect.

 

First need 1060 close the 14% gap up to 980 with Overclock. Then need the same 1060 overclock further up with an graphics increase about 3000 points in FS to reach 980 Max overclocked. Will 1060 manage +41 % Overclock? And in a slim thin lightweight laptop who 1060 is the main target?

 

I'm actually happy with these changes of situation.

The more we close in on bigger and better screens, the more I want my games and software to run on better hardware.

I just hope they will keep improving.



It's only a few days left now. I sure do hope that everyone in this world will have access to amazing tech, I mean, if people buying cheaper laptops will be getting more power, and I will too, things are going to be sweet!

 

$1200 for the 1060? I haven't seen anything anywhere near that low - did I miss a leak? Looks to me like we are looking at $1400+, which would be in line with 970M. The 960M starts at like $799

 

So ancient that it blows away every mobile GPU that's existed thus far. Such a closing of the power gap is nothing which should be downplayed so flippantly.

There's always new technology on the horizon.

Using the "lazy devs" misnomer is really vapid. You think they're sitting on super secret technology or something?

 

And Nvidia will milk every drop of Pascal to the spring/summer 2018. I doubt we will see new high end graphics next summer!! Remember my words.

 

I'm starting to doubt that. Everything suggests Volta is being moved up along with Vega.

 

Nvidia mean they have put in so much performance in mobile graphics now... More than enough for 2 years. Next upgrade for laptops come from Intel with Kaby Lake. People with M graphics need the graphics upgrade, but we with the desktop card can wait.

 

Volta HPC will be out in 2017. Consumer, maybe not.
Vega isnt that impressive if it is on same node as Polaris and are similar to Polaris.

I would expect a 4096 shader Vega to be on par with GTX 1080 +/-15% assuming its similar to Polaris.
I doubt we will see any GPU bigger than that from AMD anytime soon.

 

But Vega could be cheaper than the 1080 or the same price and force Nvidia to pop out a 1080 Ti

 

It would undoubtedly be cheaper. I don't remember a time when AMD was more expensive than NVIDIA. But Vega will have HBM2, which has pretty much been confirmed. NVIDIA must be planning to follow up. I imagine they'll introduce Volta earlier than we anticipate.

As for the performance of Vega, I'm still waiting for the day AMD gives NVIDIA a "run for their money." But I don't expect as much.

 

Vega being the next progression on Fiji, it will take on Pascal high end... Not titan X(p), but 1080 yes... Volta is a different story and I don't know...

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Being ancient has nothing to do with ability to beat older cards today. The 8800GTX was ancient and it held the crown for years. They had a couple years to beat a 980 with a next gen mid range card, big whoop. Also, no secrets with devs, the tools are out there and they barely use them. Most games are console ports that require a ton of power to run great. Also don't forget about horrible multi gpu support so far. They have all the tools they need to make pc games amazing, but they don't push them. Look at crytek back in the 2000's, do you see anyone doing what they did, today? The only thing pushing required gaming power now is resolution, refresh rates, multi monitor, VR, and crappy-er ports; there is no game engine or rendering tech that is taking pc to the next level and leaving consoles in the dust.

The good news is our 980s will last for a while. The only time I see a need for significantly more power is when PS4 neo and Xbox scoprio come out. Expect some crappy ports that look good...dangerous combo

 

Hi guys what is lvds? some discussions going on that nvidia pascal is lvds so isnt it mxm 3.0b form factor for gtx 1070 and gtx 1060?

 

Gddr5x? I certainly hope so xD

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-mobility-gddr5x-gpu/

 

Yes graphics score. But sometimes synthetic benchmarks doesn't always paint a true picture on reality. In games the frames is negligible.
I remember going back when the 285m gtx and cards after then. The 3D mark scores stopped going up accordingly. Especially for amd cards. They was good but the bench mark became irrelevant because it was too dated for the tech in the card.
We still use 3D mark 11. I think it's pointless. 3D mark fire strike is the only benchmark that think is relevant on scoring the gpu and that's just the graphics score. The standard score has cpu variable that plays a part more to its score than the gpu score which will only be noticeably depending on cooling and if it's paired with a "U" cpu like when the benchmarked the aw13 with a "u" cpu with the docked 980 and it got about 1k points less than regular 980


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It's a display input port on the Mobo, eDP is another, eDP is the reason why GSync works Nvidia could done it for free but they are green greed milking machine.

Next is LVDS is mostly used for 60Hz only. 120Hz needs eDP ports so mostly those machines have this eDP capability, Also Nvidia dropped the bomb on the old machines with LVDS to VGA a.k.a M15x type with Pascal for no Analog signal support, while there's this speculation for the machines that have LVDS but use an IC for eDP (P770ZM they have only LVDS but can solder eDP so this might be the case that Prema was talking about the machines that use IC for) I don't know exactly what's with this (check this for More info), I maybe complicating things up with my measly knowledge but hope you get an idea here.

Also the M18x R2, AW18 don't have the LVDS port from my knowledge but if one wants to run a 1070 MSI card (if it fits) in them They might need to fix it up themselves also no idea how would BIOS react. P570WM seems to have the eDP.

And 1060 Clevo also has a power connector which is MXM but not the 3.0b, The only chance for the Old machines is the 1070 MSI which are hard to find even when the machines are out / upgrade kits seem hard to find even for the MSI users. If you have an M18x R2 and only for gaming the 980M SLI should suffice until Volta / Pascal Gen2 else you can jump ship to Clevo,

I'd add this - Clevo's cards seem to have the standard shape from the leaks they might stick to this format. BUT remember, the HBM2 will change everything once It hits on mobile again G5X is already here with 1080, Since the heatsinks will need modifications if the Die size changes, else the massive "Grid" Vapour chamber cooler on the 870DM3 would suffice.

EDIT : Seems like the M15x has the eDP after all..

 

So I compared the mxm schematics on the DM and ZM and the lvds on both are not listed as ports, like vga isn't listed as a port, but the eDP, two DP and HDMI all are, suggesting that there may be a similar eDP bridge to LVDS as what is needed for support. I'm **** with schematics. I'll admit that, so this could mean I'm wrong, but the schematics on both are very similar and share this in common. If lvds isn't a port, I think it may be proper to think it is the IC between eDP and LVDS, but would love someone better to look at it. Check out the service manuals on palkeo mirror. The mxm schematic for the dm is on page 72, zm is also page 72...

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don't expect 1060 laptop can overclock more than 10%
because of the power supply and heat

 

well I am really hoping at least a single gtx 1070 to work on my m18x r2 for its last run. or even gtx 1060 sli. Lets see keeping my fingers crossed.

 

Also A bit off topic question. where does msi sell their Gpu kits and how much they charge for it? Even for gtx 980m currently, any infos on that?

 

Yep, as Prema pointed out analogue has been ditched for a while.

Should I not introduce confusion and say that the LVDS cable and signal system is still used in eDP? It's more just analogue vs digital.

 

That's less confusing! I just didn't realize lvds was not a port on my machine. This means, with firmware support, a heatsink (which seems better designed, although I'll need specs on the new fans and fin arrays for the New cooling and to bust out my dremmel possibly if the 775 heatsink will fit with the finds) and the card, I may be in business and back on top for the ZM (until and unless @Mr. Fox jumps on the fray, one of my main platform competitors)...

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Not sure if it has been posted before, but here it is anyways:

https://gaming.msi.com/promotion/alter-your-reality

 

It's been posted a few times, but now it looks like the Counter is working / displaying again, so thanks for that

 

Finally we can end 700 pages of wild speculation.

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Nda up at midnight!

Edit: I meant midnight when it becomes the 16th

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In 2 more days...

 

I translated to EST, which is at midnight between Monday and Tuesday. So we'll get this at midnight the second the east coast hits the 16th. It won't be midnight for me, but yes, I like to know the rules they play by for releases...

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