Pascal: What do we know? Discussion, Latest News & Updates: 1000M Series GPU's

aw, my bad, guess anticipation got the better of me stupid avatars...

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

While I agree that laptop IPS panels suck in comparison to the faster desktop ones, laptop panels are not 25ms to 35ms in comparison to 4ms. Those response times you're quoting are not the the same measurements. The 4ms is GTG measurements while the laptop response times quoted on a laptop screen spec sheet are NOT GTG. It's all a marketing ploy. Thats it and thats all.

 

So, can you find me the GTG measurements for the laptop panels?

 

Actually yes.

Most 4K laptops use this same AUO display, which is actually seriously good.

Take a read at http://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-XMG-U726-Clevo-P870DM-Notebook-Review.153136.0.html

They found a GTG 14-27 ms, with a lower level for BTW.

I do sincerely not know if desktop ones are actually faster, or only advertised as such.

 

In response to your early comment, yes most IPS panel on laptop are just dithered 6 bit panels. And yes you can get true 8 bit or even 10 bit panels on desktop. There is a huge price difference though. A decent 4k panel goed easily over 1000USD.

A true 10 bit panel by EIZO at 1600p would probably cost around 2500usd and I am not sure geforce cards even supports deep color.

 

Doesn't the P870 model (with the 1080p screen) have the same screen as the MSI GT72s Dominator Pro series with G-Sync?

If so notebookcheck.net said the following about the screen:

"Photosensor measurements show no use of pulse-width modulation even when on the lowest brightness setting. Meanwhile, response times are good for an IPS panel at a measured 6 ms from black to white. Moving from white to black or from grays will be slower and closer to 20 ms."

I am very sensitive to motion blur and I thought the Dominator Pro - 220 I tried was very good overall. Certainly not as good as my Rog Swift, but very good. Better in my opinion than the screen on the gt80s titan when the titan was overclocked to 75hz. Not an apple to apples comparison since the titan doesn't support g-sync and that might have biased me a bit.

 

If you are interested in portable matx powerhouses, I am looking at some options for my next build.

Feel free to PM me about that if you are interested, the guy with shirou avatar.

 

It should be the exact same display.

I heard that it was great.

But LP173WF4-SPF1_LG was said to be great too, though I am not 100% satisfied with it. Not enough color, not enough speed in response time, it is not there yet.

 

I hate how the industry goes the past decade. They make everything possible to cut as much as possible corners and in the same time fool as much as possible people. It was the case with 16:10 (YOU GET FULL HD!!!, yeah, with less pixels, and really the wrong aspect ratio for editing anything, or actual work), BGA (oh look how slim it is, so slim that it would be easier to throw it away) and now IPS (there were FAR better TNs (never believed that I would say this) in some notebooks). You get pretty much none of the benefits (viewing angles, color gamut) of IPS, but all the cons (slow, the notorious glow). Do the OEMs LOVE to screw something.

@D2 Ultima - small correction on color spaces, NTSC vs aRGB is ~1:1.

 

I wouldn't say there's far better TN's. TN"s are better at response time and refresh. They are not great for best color reproduction or viewing angles. Even with the best TN's I can't handle it, I have to have IPS.

 

GTX 1080 3dmark firestrike + 3dmark 11 benchmark results:



http://videocardz.com/59871/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-3dmark-firestrike-and-3dmark11-performance

 

@HTWingNut - I was talking about the extremes - the best TN vs the worst IPS. The best TN ever made was 8730w DreamColor LG LP171WU5-TLB1, it had pretty good viewing angles, was 8bit and RGB LED, so quite the display, on the down - it was slowish, not proper IPS slow, but slow. There were also a handful of runner-ups. The thing is that when someone says IPS, it usually means color. It was so, because they had almost 180º viewing angles and were AT LEAST 8bit (in rare cases 6bit + FRC). It's not the case anymore as we can see. In the end of the day, I would get IPS over TN, but only if it really is better, not because it's IPS.

 

I actually was considering 1080p for the most part, where screens would realistically be used by a heavy gamer in the laptop space. If 1440p panels existed beyond 13" I would consider them too.

There is an IGZO panel I believe by Sharp that 4K laptops enjoy using too (may be wrong about it being by Sharp). It is not g-sync certified and has similar high response times.

I know how expensive 10-bit panels are, however most desktop panels in general (TN as well) are 8-bit colour, and I wasn't talking about 4K as mentioned just above. Laptops at one point got at least decent panels. I can't consider these decent. And where most of them are coming from, especially Clevos, is Asia. There's tons of cheap Korean panels out there, many of which are rebranded and marked up in the US. I know we don't NEED to overpay for the panels, and even then, there is a limit at which people will simply decide that a laptop costs too much, and panel makers know it too.

Yes, they all use the LG LP173WF4-SPD1 (or maybe it's SPF1, either way it's the same G-sync certified 17" 1080p panel). If this is the case, then even if not at 25ms, it's still well above the limit needed for good 60Hz, far less anything higher (16.67ms or less is needed for 60Hz, and 8.33ms or less is needed for 120Hz). I don't know what the GT80 is or was using; it has an 18" panel.

It's what sells while saving them costs. What's the word... capitalism? nVidia got on stage and lied about Pascal's performance and got people praising them. That's basically the state of tech right now.

Nice clarification. That explains why 95% NTSC can clear 100% Adobe RGB though... but I could swear I've seen people with 100% Adobe RGB panels that also clear 100% sRGB but are at 72% NTSC? I wonder if I'm going crazy

 

I like this photo with some componets inside - may be it's future:

 

Are TN are true 8 bit? Did anyone ever made that?

Oh ye, the korean panels are the so called "A-" reject panels compared with the "rebranded" panel used by larger companies. Its not a big deal if you are not concerned with BLB or a couple dead pixels. Also their stands suck, I mean holy crap dollar store quality bad. Mine didnt not do a good job of keeping the monitor stable.

Honestly, I dont really care about the monitor quality besides true 8 bit, no/slight BLB, no dead pixel. Beyond that, as long as the color gamut arent bad, I am alright. I dont need complete realistic color, I want colors that looks good.

Edit: When I was talking about IPS, I mean actually good IPS on desktop space. I had a 16:10 U2410 ultrasharp. Now that was a good IPS monitor for the price. It was an older CCFL so there is not even the WLED that needs to worry about.

 

Samsung did, twice. one RGBLED 1920x1200P screen for the M17x R2 and another RGBLED 1920x1080P screen for the Sony VGN-AW190

 

hard to find good panels these days, glad AUO made a nice one...too bad the res is unusable

 

That's the panel in my laptop. It is the 4K IGZO and according to panelook it is 8-bit and 72% NTSC. In my opinion the color is a_mazing. But it does have a noticeably slow response time (~25ms), is only 60Hz, and it's indeed not G-Sync certified

I would love for it to get a g-sync certification, which would easily push me to buy a g-sync 1080M once we get a compatible BIOS, but at this point I don't think they are going to go back and pay for certification of an old model screen, when they have newer ones to focus on.

 

We are a long way from 4k 120hz. And its not going to be cheap at all.

G-Sync would need 75hz.

 

That case alone costs 1000 bucks!

You could look at In-win D Frame. Its small, sturdy and nice looking. But it has open air glass concept.

 

No, your model is for a 15". I was talking more about 17" in terms of panels just now. The lower in size the better the panels you get, I've noticed. 90% NTSC glossy was the best 17" had. 95% NTSC glossy and 90% NTSC Matte were what I saw often in 15" back in the day. 13" has 1440p which 17" really should have. 14" has lots of 3200 x 1800 panels, which would be far better than 4K as far as top end gaming is concerned while still keeping screen real estate, but what 14" is going to drive that properly? All sorts of meowmix in the panel market.

The first 4K screens for notebooks I think were in 15".

 

For that price, I am getting a caselab. Actually, I am looking at their Mercury S5/Bullet line for my next build. I just love cube cases.

 

This discussion has derailed - into something surprisingly informative. I learnt a lot about screens in the past few pages. However, I think we still need to get the basics right with respect to laptop screens - all I want is a screen like the W230SS' (i.e. incredible viewing angles and clarity for a matte screen), but doesn't have the default yellow tint that the AUO screen comes with, and doesn't have the warm-up/cool-down time that's especially noticeable when transiting from dark windows to a very bright one (for example, from a game to a webpage with a white background). Maybe then we can think of 75 Hz and greater.

 

To be honest, anything about pascal mobile right now is pure guesswork and speculations anyways. The desktop NDA lifts at May 17th and we will have a gauge on how the desktop part performances.

 

I think that In-win D Frame is a bit big to take with you on a road trip in a backpack.

Though it surely would have great airflow XD.

Does anyone know if you can easily transport one in a backpack ? I would need to travel every 2 weeks, and by bus, and something that is too uncomfortable is a bit out of the question.


About panels, the most popularFHD one is 6 bit dithered, that LG. I regret my purchase after finding that out LOL. I really needed a good one for work. A good one is 1000$-2000$ for the monitor alone though.

 

What type of work you do? Carrying monitors/computer via backpack is.... hard. Maybe by car?

 

The smallest ones I know of(that should hold a 1080) are the Silverstone RVZO2 and SG13, Fractal Design Node 202 and the Falcon Northwest Tiki. I'm sure there will be newer(possibly smaller) cases launched at Computex

Edit: after a quick Google search I found a considerably smaller case called the A4-SFX by DAN cases
https://www.dan-cases.com/dana4.php

Sent from my Micromax AQ4501 using Tapatalk

 

Need to travel using bus, as it is so much cheaper than car for this purpose. Also, always taking a single route between two cities means that a car would be not necessary at this exact point. For this bus drive, I need to carry either laptop or PC in a backpack for about 1 hour walking and 3 hours it sits comfortably there, so no problem.

I write games that run in 4K. Kinda need that power. Also, the only thing that seems better for getting on this route is that I could have a bigger display, with probably a better quality.

 

Anyone tried DOOM on Maxwell single GPU ?

 

These are small enough for me to carry in a backpack.

Now, I never built a computer before, or it's cooling or it's cable management. This should be an adventure

 

I was going to mention nGreedia, but didn't. Since you brought it, I think that part of Maxwell's and probably Pascal's efficiency and performance comes from the colors, or rather the lack of them. Less colors (compressed for bandwidth improvement), means less calculations, lower power, higher performance. Check 980 + high gamut monitors, or M17x-R2 with RGB LED that try to upgrade to 9x0m, or any 87x0w DreamColor with 9x0m (severe gray scale issues, because grays are made out of the 3 colors, and deeper color depth means better grays). AMD has similar issues with the Fury line as far as I'm aware, as there's color compression as well. The Polaris is clearly geared towards HDR (based on Rec. 2020), so that should exclude any issues with high gamut displays and it would also mean that you get real performance, without cutting corners. Waiting to see how Pascal plays with anything but 6bit displays. Maybe that's the reason for crappy IPSes in first place (since GSync certification)? Who knows.

LG did too, their LP171WU5 family (8bit TN) used in Lenovo W700/1/ds and DELL M6500, and as already mentioned the best one LP171WU5-TLB1 in 8730w DreamColor. So yeah, there were pretty good quality TNs, and I can barely see a good quality IPS nowadays. Even the new 4K DreamColor and PremierColor are 8bit WLED. They barely cover aRGB, unlike the OLDER WUXGA/1080p 10bit RGB LEDs that cover ~85% of Rec. 2020... Progress, right.

Another example of good quality TNs. I would LOVE to see a comparison of these AUOs (since all of the mentioned were AUO made) with the new 1080p IPSes. As for why the 15" gets the better panels, because bigger market share and as you said - capitalism.

 

Since when?

Dang, I was looking for it this time.

DING DING! What do I win?
And why is everyone talking about screens when we have some benches?

Not single but a tech site couldn´t play it with 980 SLI 1440p Ultra. Had to bump it down to Medium to get it smooth.


Edit: OC results: http://videocardz.com/59882/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-3dmark-overclocking-performance

Spoiler

 

Yeah we put a bit of effort into it in order to make it as real as possible...it would probably have been closer to the real deal than anything that calls itself Mobile Pascal in this thread...

 

I´ll be getting a review unit with 1080M from Swedish brand IVY, ETA mid-June.
I´ll keep you updated if more info pops up before arrival.

 

1080m in June? I'll believe it when I see it.

 

That´s the info I recieved. I agree it sounds early considering all we have discussed, we´ll see when it actually arrives.

 

Well, this is PROPER information! Not long to wait then for mobile Pascal!

 

The non-reference (founders lol) will only just have their cards to market by June. Perhaps there might be an announcement for mobile around then. I don't think we'll see mobile in our hands till around September - give or take

 

I believe him. I read an article last night from "MARCH" I must add. that said around 16th June. And I expect it to stack up because the mobile "usually" on trend is 2-3 weeks after desktop.
For me I'm looking forward to the 1070m because of form factor unless they can add a 1080m in 14"
But I'll be interested to see its benchmarks to excite myself if a 1070m is really closer 980 than 970

 

The difference this time is we got zero info so far. No leaks, screenshots or anything. A little healthy scepticism is not uncalled for.

 

Thanks. A somewhat nervous thumbs up for you.

 

Georgel, I found the best monitor especially for you bro. I know its dream, but all our life is dream and I hope may be tomorrow you buy and make job with your dream…

https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/product-PVMA250/

 

NAAAH, 16:10

 

That is not even funny

OLED technology is flawed, at least in my experience.

Go in a store, where there are OLED or AMOLED products on display that stay on or play video. Go to a totally white screen. God! the ghosting they have.

Also, I cannot understand that price. It costs 7K USD. It does not cover adobeRGB from their own quotes, it only covers sRGB

I think that for 2K - 2.5 K you can find extremely good monitors that are IPS, and have good response times, like under 6ms.

Well, all being said and done, I am still considering options.

 

Something is telling me a single 1080 may not be good enough for 4k just yet.

 

It's better than the Titan X, so it's good enough.

 

It will take 3 1080s for decent 4K

 

Well I talk a lot... but only about things I'm reasonably certain should be factual. Or I specify opinion.

Not about things like this xD

 

What's decent? Max settings at 60-120 FPS?

It will be able to play most games at around 60 FPS on fairly high settings. Definitely good enough to enjoy a gaming experience.

 

According to current rumors and whatnot, 2-way SLI is all that will be supported by the GTX 1000 series.

And even if rumors are to be ignored, looking at the cards and at the SLI bridges, they appear to use both the connection slots on the cards, so 2-way SLI would leave no open slots for connecting a third card.

So unless nVidrosoft bring out a big head-turner, it seems that for benchmarkers, Maxwell is still top dog... or they're switching to AMD. Even if AMD is a bit weaker, three or four cards will smoke the two that's limiting Pascal.