Pascal: What do we know? Discussion, Latest News & Updates: 1000M Series GPU's

If there was a well built thin and light with MXM I'd consider it.

Sent from a 128th Legion Stormtrooper 6P

 

Do crunches, pull ups, squats, weight lift/barbell, and pushups and there's your thin and light


But seriously though, consider the new AW pascal laptops with the GA, it'll do better than mxm

 

That argument is ridiculously weak, no pun intended. I have a 9lb 17". I'm 6'1" 195. I can carry that no problem, I just don't want to.

Sent from a 128th Legion Stormtrooper 6P

 

BGA hate train's here again...

What can we consumers do if we aren't even offered the choice between a socketed CPU/GPU for different models? Cue Intel for getting rid of a perfectly legitimate socket called rPGA.

Choosing between MXM+LGA vs an entirely soldered setup is equivalent to choosing between super high-end (Clevo P7/P8 series) and low-end to mid-range (Clevo P6, W series). If we want, say, a GTX 1060M, it's bound to be soldered. Some people just don't have the money to afford such a high-end notebook, all for replaceable components. And MXM chips are bloody expensive anyway.

Might as well purchase a high-end BGA notebook (like the P650RG), maintain it well, keep it well within thermal limits, and make it last four years.

But then when someone purchases BGA... you guys would say 'haha noob BGA crapbook, go build some muscles'.

FYI - typical solder melts at 250 - 300°C. If our laptops got anywhere near that hot, I'd look at the cooling setup first, since it so badly that the processors manage to heat up so much.

 

No offense here, but BGA balls don't melt at 250 C

They melt at about 150 C, which can happen in a surge of heat. That is the problem.

And way before the BGA itself melts, the GPU and CPU burns, which is the reason why reballing is needed. It's not supposed to put the old GPU or CPU back, it's supposed to put a new one.

And yes, for anyone who doesn't buy a high end one, socketed is not an option, sadly.

What can we do now? Just use BGA? Of course many will, but there is not choice. It also depends how much one spends on it. After 2000 $ price point, BGA is already unacceptable.

 

If your PC ever reaches 150C, you have other things to be worrying about, like your home catching fire.

 

BRB, gonna tell the airline, I fly with, about this.
Maybe then they'll consider giving me a break, when I have overweight hand luggage.

 

Or if you run crossfire 290x

More like house fire

 

Who the hell runs 290x's in CF?!? There's not enough electricity in the world to power those...

Hmmm, I should upgrade my M60J... It's MXM you know.
Can't wait to put mobile-desktop 980 in it!

 

cheapskates who don't install a central heating system for house

 

I think it might be actually cheaper to install central heating...

 

Is that your 240M laptop? That was MXM?

SCREW YOU NVIDIA. WHY IS MY 860M BGA?

 

If it doesn't fit, push harder

 

Yep

Because your laptop is thin, perhaps?

I also have a sledgehammer handy, just in case.

 

Wut. Now even GTX 950Ms aren't MXM, and we can forget about 940M...

Oddly enough, my laptop is thicker than many other laptops which have the GTX 870/970Ms inside (notably, Gigabyte Aero 14, P640RE and Razer Blade). I'm sure that with some motherboard hocus pocus, Clevo might've stuffed an MXM GPU inside. But no, they had to mess up the cooling design and put the chips on the other end of the board and route super-long cooling pipes.

 

Ah, 2009, simpler times...

Well at least you have space for two HDDs/SSDs. Back then I still considered a laptop, one of the main reasons against getting one was a lack of space for a second drive.

 

Just as a quick hypothetical: how thin could a modern laptop actually be while still implementing the MXM standard? I know rPGA was present in relatively thin and light form factors (see: GE40, Haswell Thinkpads and Latitudes).

 

My W230SS could probably take an MXM GPU, given that people are wise enough not to put anything more powerful than a GTX 970M in it, by virtue of TDP and cooling limits. It's so thick (for a BGA + rPGA setup) because Clevo thought it a good idea to route one cooling pipe over the other and sort of 'twist' them around, giving the notebook easily 5mm extra in height. I believe it would even be possible to put MXM in notebooks as thin as 2.5 cm (~ 1").

 

What is the question here?

How thin? Very.

But if you sacrifice cooling, sacrifice airflow, sacrifice performance, sacrifice battery life, and make it impossible to open it to actually replace that MXM, then there it goes for thin MXM laptops.

It's not about thickness, but the cost of implementing MXM for a 960m outweights all benefits, given the small price for a laptop including this GPU. Also, the thinner it is, the worse the cooling / performance it is.

Asus kinda thought they dealt with it by introducing their liquid cooling solutions. It kinda works. But it's big, uncomfortable, takes an entire table to work, and wayyyyyyyyy too expensive to be practical, with little real life advantage. And I think that they are still BGA.

 

I meant more of a reasonable machine that could (edit: WOULD) actually exist. You don't need to sacrifice battery life (see: GE40), and you don't need to sacrifice performance/cooling either (see: Aorus X7). Obviously the X7 has many flaws because it tries to pack arguably too much power in a slim form factor, but again, I'm not saying we shove dual 1080Ms in there. And I'm not talking about the 960M - I was thinking more along the lines of the x70M cards. Basically, it's more of how-much-thicker-would-you-need-to-make-a-razer-blade-to-make-it-MXM question. Call me crazy, but I don''t think it would be impossible to produce a <5 lb 1 inch thick 14.1 inch laptop with an MXM 1070M in it, ~5-6 hours of battery life, a 1080p display, rPGA Skylake CPU (remember, hypothetically), with decent build quality that costs less than $3500.

 

I mean if you are super rich and money is no object then the 1080m sli aorus is probably an attractive option. Buy one this year and throw it in the trash when the next one comes out

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http://videocardz.com/61503/leaked-driver-supports-mobile-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-and-gtx-1070

Saw this couple hours ago
Boring boring Chelsea

 

And GTX1060 is out.
http://www.techpowerup.com/223696/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060-surfaces-in-hong-kong-market

The original website is in Chinese. But if you guys want to have a look of it, I can post it here.
Besides, the guy has also got a official sample of RX 480. Benchmarks of the card are most likely to be out today.

 

Finally, mid-range stuff. If the 1060 cannot outdo the 980, it's good luck to Nvidia's mid-range segment, since the RX 480 would blow the 1060 out of the water in terms of value for money.

We shall see what happens to the 1060M. Hopefully they abandon the stupid 'X65M' and just make the 1060M more powerful, positioned at a better performance point with respect to the 1070M.

 

It would be possible. But to change components, would be very complicated. Simply because of thickness that is needed to have motherboard + cooling pipes + MXM slot + case + what else is going on in the exact spot.

This is mainly why they make them BGA. Welding them together takes much less space, and while they can make a MXM, the theoretical thickness cannot be smaller than a certain factor, before circuits would be touching or the cooling would be insufficient. And if it is very very thin, it's hard to disassembly it and work inside, because it needs to be using every last bit of space.

I want to ask though. Why? Why do you want a very very thin laptop?

 

because thats what the kids think is cool nowadays

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

Uh, for portability and convenience? Why else? Anyway, 1 inch is hardly 'very very thin' by today's standards. For me personally though, the weight is more important than the actual thinness. Taking a 3 kg machine around with you all day can wear you out, especially if you've got a suitcase or backpack that you're taking with you as well. A lighter laptop is also more comfortable to sit with and less of a hassle to move about the house.

 

Apple has unfortunately affected many people's wishes/choice!!! It's hard to get in both worlds... And Apple isn't known for gaming laptops if I remember correctly

 

INB4 "do you even lift, brah?"

 

kek

Seriously though, it doesn't have anything to do with strength. I'm pretty sure that if given the chance, even The Rock would rather have a lighter laptop for having on his lap while he sits in a recliner for few hours.

Obligatory Rock gif:

 

3 KG machine

My traveling laptop setup weights in total 7 KG and see someone complains about 3 Kg.

No... Just... It's not entirely possible with today's technology to have these things. Cooper it's the best material used for cooling pipes. It's heavy. Gaming laptops need good cooling.

I got the luck to touch an apple laptop.

Shiny case, very good screen, thinner than two tablets put together.

Could not do my work on it, way too weak, it overheats badly. I wish apple made a gaming laptop, but then looking at how much an apple laptop costs, I fear what the price will be if they made a gaming laptop.

 

If Apple had built one..., It would probably throttled heavy as the rest of their models. Nice screen, design and high cost can't always give you raw power!!

 

Everyone has acknowledged one thing here - Apple does one thing very well, and that's screens. From maintaining a 16:10 aspect ratio, to colour accuracy and reproduction, as well as sheer screen quality and brightness, one really can't get much better than a MacBook Pro.

 

For me it's more about thickness uniformity than thickness itself. My GT60 is thicker on it's back than on the front. This forces my backpack to rest in a non uniform way on my back and causes a small inbalance on the shoulder straps too. In the end I use a spacer to even things out and have a more confortable way of traveling

 

See: Razer.

Why the hell not? MXM cards are not harder to cool than soldered ones. We've already seen that cards like the 970M can fit into form factors less than an inch thick and not have major throttling issues. It's just a question of implementing MXM itself. Your argument makes no sense.

Did you even read my post?

The point is not that it's difficult to carry around 3 kg. The point is that when you're taking other things with you to work/school everyday, the more weight you can save on extras you take with you the better.

Let me draw an analogy. Nowadays with online content, whenever someone on a free platform, for example Youtube, announces that they're moving over to some other paid service in some way shape or form and then they start pushing said service saying, "Hey it's only 7 bucks a month!" or whatever the price is (see: ScreenJunkies Plus, SeeSo, Vessel, Youtube Red), people get pissed. Why? Is it because they think 7 bucks is a lot of money? No. It's because they're already paying for (as some examples that wouldn't be unreasonable for one person to have)

• internet
• Netflix/Hulu/HBO
• cable/satellite
• Spotify/Napster
• magazine subscription/game subscription (e.g. WoW, Xbox Live, PS Plus)
• one or two games a month
• etc.

See how it all adds up very quickly? In middle school, my bag used to weigh 15 kg. And due to some weird school rules and bylaws, we had to walk about half a kilometer each day after school to catch our buses with our bags. Was it something I could do everyday? Yes. Was it the worst thing in the world? No. But it wasn't convenient. A big part of technology is convenience. I travel a lot. Many people travel a lot. When you're getting off a 24-hour plane ride and tired and jet-lagged as all hell, it's easier to have a carry-on that weighs 4 kilos than 5 kilos. If you have to walk with your stuff on a daily basis (to work, or around campus, etc.) or take your laptop with you every time you get up and move into another room (at the office, at home, etc.), the less weight the better. It's way easier to carry 6 kilos on your back/with your arms for a few hours than it is to carry 7. Don't believe me? Try taking 2-mile hike with a 17-inch DTR in your pack. Then try the same thing again with an ultrabook.

A few years ago, I had a conversation similar to this with an aunt and uncle of mine where I vented my frustrations about the thin-and-light craze. My uncle made a very good point that my aunt, who was working in a clinic at the time where she would move around a lot and have to take her laptop with her with basically every step she took in the building, had a much easier time with her HP ultrabook than she would have had with even an average 15-inch laptop. Then factor in the fact that she was much older than I was.

Other people might be older than you, travel more with their gear than you do, might value convenience more than you, or yes, might just be plainly weaker than you. Thin and light laptops are very good for many people, and their market doesn't simply exist because people are sheeple and will follow any trend that becomes popular. Get off your condescending high-horse and realize that other peoples' situations may be different than yours.

 

Other laptops now offer screen quality same as MBP with IGZO 4K or AHVA 4K (Clevo).

Maybe touch option on few models.

 

I wouldn't want to carry around my big Clevo back when I was at Uni or work. But I wouldn't want to play games at Uni. Then most Universities in Australia we still go back home at the end of the day.

The big DRT thing is more of a thing you deploy somewhere for a few days in my opinion.

Still for the all purpose thin machines that can be easily transported there's no good reason they couldn't design MXM into it.
They could easily make the GPU flush with the Motherboard PCB if it has a rectangular cutout to slot into on the edge. It would retain the same Z height. Not that hard. MXM and thin laptops aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Not if they have modest GPU's inside.

Elephant in the room here... I think we all know why Manufacturers don't adopt MXM. Heat dissipation isn't one of them.

 

I'm going to do this tonight whilst I kill some time waiting for "true" mobile pascal....the exercise not the whole tongue thing though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Is this your laptop?


7 kg, that's a lot. My entire desktop with my flight simming gear probably weighs that much.

Material out of this guy* is good for cooling?


*Character in the movie was named Cooper.

Isn't Razor pretty much what gaming laptop would look like if Apple made one?
Seeing how they are running out of ideas, a gaming laptop from Apple might be a possibility in the future.
Inb4 "this is revolutionary design, before us, no one gamed on a laptop."

Still wish there were lappys with 16:10 screens...

 

However crap the blade's cooling system is, it's miles above what apple can do/willing to do.

 

Nonsense. I toted the M18x daily my senior year and it was glorious.

 

More power to you. I guess it depends what you need it for would also have alot to do with it too.

I'd love to see where the industry could evolve to move on from Big vs Thin, as if only a big machine is solely entitled to hold upgradable components or thin = BGA and then see some upgradable machines with slim profiles. Man we could have it all.

 

Seems to work fine. I've abused mine for over 2 years and it's still cranking out my games. 200 hrs in Witcher 3 with no crashes.

Sent from a 128th Legion Stormtrooper 6P

 

I'm not saying that it's anemic, it's actually very good for such a thin machine.

 

I'm sorry..., But upgradable machines with slimer design will never have the cooling you need for fully working hardware. You can't escape from the physics laws. Maybe the cooling <can> manage the job with stock speed with out big problems, but not more. Not nice if you have to run your hardware with stock speed at the thermal limit 24/7/365 No... Bigger the better Slim Apple similar laptops should only contain weaker hardware so they can work as intended!! You can't have it both.

 

45w chip with only 1 heatpipe (share with gpu), passed over to two unsoldered-unjointed fin array that is not sitting flush with the fan. paired with the zero-turbo 4xxx series that's visualized with a 2+ year old GCN GPU

yep, definitely is high quality $2k machine! ggwp apple

 

Yes, there is Razer and such, but they are BGA. The point is... look. It is possible, just adding the needed size of the MXM card, which is like 5-7mm depending, but then making it socketed means a space between it and main gpu of another 3mm at least, then paste is applied differently, cooling adds another 5 mm, because it has to be much easier to detach, and it's on a 970m minimum, and maximum if thin LOL.

this means that you can take the slimmest 970m setup, and it can be done MXM based by adding 12 mm to it's thickness. For gpu it would be about adding 15mm thickness, which isn't much.

But it wasn't done because nobody really asked for it, and it would add to the price.

Let me say the following. You can buy 970m or 960m BGA i7 laptops for about 1500$, so why bother. I mean, those will satisfy more than you need, and will last 4-5 years, but you will get bored by the hardware and upgrade before. At least, when you sell to people, they can get good hardware at a good price. Everybody wins. XD.

Razor is poor gaming laptop. It heats, throttles.

And Yes, I carry around 7Kg. Think about it. 4KG for the laptop, 1.2 KG for my power source, and there is External HDD, Mouse, mouse pad, headphones, audiophile player, another pair of headphones, cables, more cables, audiophile headphone amplifiers, etc.

 

Iactuallylaughedatthisgoddammit

Because I, and many other people including many people who aren't even gaming enthusiasts, want modularity. I want to be able to upgrade if I want to. I want to be able to replace a part if it fails. I want total control over each and every component of my hardware. If a laptop like this existed, I would likely never need to buy a new laptop until the mobo fails, just upgrading the CPU and GPU every couple years. And even then, I want to be able to replace the mobo. That's why I bought a T440p over any of Lenovo's new BGA nonsense. I can go to eBay and buy a replacement for every individual piece of this machine.