Pascal: What do we know? Discussion, Latest News & Updates: 1000M Series GPU's

I had the chance of getting a 980M, based laptop with SSD and a good 16GB RAM for about 2000 EUR since the prices drop.

The problem is that it was an Acer Predator.

I have a feeling that a P870 with a 970M inside might be faster than an Acer Predator with 980M inside, in real life experience, due to much better cooling, different Bios, and different CPU.

So I chosen to wait.

If only all software would support SLI profiles and be able to work with 2X970M cards.

 

Had my first test run with the sli gtx 1080s last night and it was glorious. One thing I noticed more so than anything is how long in the tooth sli seems to be getting though. Don't get me wrong I love having the option but when searching for games in my library to test it out on the only ones I could come up with were Witcher 3 and AC syndicate.. also the division. They run well but the single card performance is really where it shines most.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

While I do like his work, I kinda don't agree that not all can get it, except if one forks out money through the most expensive resellers.

I will buy from one of those resellers, but I pity others who can't afford them.

I know that HID does pricematch though.

 

I had the chance of getting a 980M, based laptop with SSD and a good 16GB RAM for about 2000 EUR since the prices drop.

The problem is that it was an Acer Predator.

I have a feeling that a P870 with a 970M inside might be faster than an Acer Predator with 980M inside, in real life experience, due to much better cooling, different Bios, and different CPU.

So I chosen to wait.

If only all software would support SLI profiles and be able to work with 2X970M cards.

 

It's not just new machines. It's all the sBIOS and vBIOS he does for other machines and GPUs. Some machines wouldn't have even been able to upgrade without them. He's single handedly breathed new life and performance into countless machines. With SVL7 gone they aren't no other game in town.

Yeah.. it's a Ubisoft game
Most of the games I play aren't ridiculously demanding. Killing Floor 2. Warhammer - Vermintide, Doom.

Yeah.. SLI is getting worst and worse. I was happy when I went from 980 SLI to 980ti.

 

ubisoft games are intentionally crippled so they look demanding

divison ran pretty well in the 2013-2014 trailer, but at release it's heavily downgraded and is not able to be run at ultra (all settings maxed) with a single 970/980

 

I don't think that the laptop GTX1060 = desktop GTX 1060 regarding performance. Just look at the laptop 1080, it will have less cuda cores and GDDR5, so it will give around the same performance as the desktop GTX1070 (which is around GTX 980 Ti)
There are no numbers yet, but coming from this, I think the laptop GTX1070 will give around the same performance as the GTX980.

 

That's a fair assumption to make regarding the laptop performance of a 1070(M).

I think, if they do drop the "M" in the name, it will still be the M series card we'd all expect to see. So, technically, it's still a 1070M. However, my belief is that it will just be how it was with the 980M and the 980 being in laptops, but this time with more than just one card.

 

Yup, that new naming just introduces confusion .

In practice, it could likely go something like this:

- notebook GTX 1060 would be successor of GTX 970M (with performance close to GTX 980)
- notebook GTX 1070 would be successor of GTX 980M (with performance somehow below GTX 980 Ti)
- notebook GTX 1080 would be successor of GTX 980 (with performance somehow above GTX 980 Ti)

(in terms of which notebook chassis would get which Pascal GPU and approximately which pricing could there be)

 

I don't feel as optimistic about your performance estimations, because from what we have seen in this thread and some of the data that has been shared by a few publications on the notebook GTX 1080, the following appears to be the case.

The notebook GTX 1080 appears to perform somewhere between the desktop GTX 980 and 980 Ti (it is mildly behind the 980 Ti and the desktop GTX 1070), which would logically put the notebook GTX 1070 somewhere around the desktop GTX 980 mark, and the notebook GTX 1060 somewhere around the GTX 980M territory. Still a great showing, but I doubt that the notebook GTX 1060 (as stock) will actually perform substantially close to the desktop GTX 980 when its desktop counterpart is meant to be matching that territory.

 

Ok, so the way I am understanding it is (and correct me if I am wrong): 1080 for laptops will be better than anything currently available for laptops. 1070 for laptops will be somewhere around the 980 desktop card that goes into some high-end laptops, and better than the 980m.

So if I was thinking of buying a laptop with a 980m card then it seems pretty clear I should just chill and wait for the 1070. Its unlikely to be much more expensive, if at all, and will deliver better performance almost certainly. Correct?

 

None of the chips today can run clocks like sandy bridge did. 4.8ghz is pretty close/right on the max point of skylake. Speaking of that, I did have a friend who can run his 6700k around 5.1ghz with 1.4ishv overvolt? He undevolts for less noise though.

 

Yeah on a desktop board even my chip does 5.1 Ghz @ 1.475 V with max temps (Prime95 small FFT) temps around low 70C'.

 

And at which clock speed will Skylake exceed 100W in bench if I may ask? Your definition is that Skylake not exceed 100W even with overclocking. And what significant overvoltage is needed for this?

Edit. Maybe bro @bloodhawk ^^^ can give you the answer

 

Yup, it's on the optimistic side .

Though with desktop Pascals they already managed to get two-step upgrades for x60/x70/x80 instead of usual one-step (1060 ~= 980, 1070 ~= 980 Ti, 1080 > 980Ti), so it's not a complete moonshot to expect something similar for notebooks (970m ~= 960 => 980, 980m ~= 970 => 980 Ti-, 980 nb => 980 Ti+).

Here are assumptions those estimates were based on:

1) I suspect that MSI GT73 from Mr Najsman had "notebook GTX 1070" instead of "notebook GTX 1080" (it was referred to as "GTX 1080m", which would have made more sense).

2) desktop GTX 960 was more or less equivalent of GTX 970M (performance-wise, even when it was a different chip) and had the same 120 watt TDP as desktop GTX 1060, so Pascal successors to x60/x70m class of GPUs could have similar performance for notebook vs desktop (independently of name or chip they use)

Bah, that new naming of notebook GPUs without M is really confusing, especially now when we are still doing just speculations

 

Sure. Although my assumptions are based on the same stock score from those results posted in this thread, which were slightly behind a 980 Ti, but very impressive for a single laptop GPU.

I definitely agree that the naming scheme is very cumbersome.

 

Well it easily pushes over 110W @ 4.9Ghz running Cinebench / Firestrike Physics / 3DM11 .

 

*modest OC around 4.4ghz-4.5ghz. I remember on my 6700k I pulled around 80ishw on cinebench/wprime? Definitely under 100w. I think I was running around 1.2v?? for that.

It depends on your chip and your voltage.

 

BGA - Better Get Another every year, and it defeats the purpose of a full fledged computer with soldered crippled turd, One component goes dead, bam dumpster after OEM warranty. OC and all are the added perks of owning the good modular hardware. Plus the BGA should be used for good (Smartphones, Ultrabooks) but not a damn i7 which pulls over 40-50W and a GPU which pulls over 100W, Aorus makes those slim SLI machines which run hot like a volcano violating TDP physics standards, and call it a day, crude B$ marketing policies of this massive corporate greed.

Shiny designs emerged, click bait scenarios & people gulped the kool-aid way more than trusting themselves. Corporates took advantage and now here we are in this gimped world, look at Alienware, and Scammers Edition B$, OC clockblock (Coz ? noobs used to say mobile GPU are not worth OCing), MSI Hybrid power... I bet that Project Scorpio won't keep the standards, calling 6TFs of power and raise the market share and then call some hybrid gimmick shizz and then get rekt, that's M$ for ya (Says PC gaming *blah blah* and now ? Exlc DX12 bullcrap which sucks over DX11 and UWP, DWWM2.0 Orwellian crap)

Sorry I couldn't stop posting against BGA & corporate filth, makes my blood boil.

Back on the topic, Sad to see that naming get more plausible, that's super dumb & confusing, not being used to get us a true 1080 instead the same ol' trick with a new buzz word..., fingers crossed for Clevo 3.0B cards & AMD should be bought by Samsung, they are not fit to give competition at all.

 

In peak power you can push about 110w in xtu with 4,6GHz and around +-103w in Cinebench R15 with 4.8 GHz if I remember correctly. It's depending of bench. Then you can think about a ok 6820BGA that can do +- 4.2 GHz in bench and simultaneously push gpu. All this in a slim laptop chassis who have a cooling created for the chassis.

 

Call me a pessimist, but I think this naming scheme is made for a purpose and the sole purpose is to charge MUCH more money essentially for the same performance lineup. Sure, 1070 performing at desktop 980 level is great, but do not expect it to cost the same as 970M. I'm predicting the new lineup will jump at least one ladder up in terms of pricing, i.e. 1070 costing as 980M, 1080 costing as 980 or more. Performance wise, it is still a great deal, but if we look a bit deeper, we'll see that nothing has really changed compared to previous gens - top mobile 1080 performs at about second-tier desktop 1070, mobile 1070 = desktop 1060 and etc, but with one very big difference: from now on we will be paying even more for the ability to carry our rigs and this will become a new standard. If this is not the case, I will be pleasantly surprised, but I really don't think so.

Still, with all my frustration, I cannot really blame Nvidia for this, because essentially they have a carte blanche to do whatever they want in an environment of absolutely no competition. Anyone in their position would do the same. It's obvious that AMD has given up on laptops and it's not a coincidence that AMD has also decided to change their naming scheme from, for instance, R9 M480 to RX 480M. They're basically taking over Nvidia's nomenclature focusing on merde-end cards for laptops, while Nvidia has 90% of the rest. Of course, this does not signal the end for AMD, since they are still completely owing consoles and have competitive products in desktop space, but winter has come in a laptop segment for sure.

 

but considering the price of mxm boards, it is cheaper to get another one every year

 

About 1070 for laptops and waiting for it instead of getting a 980m or 980 laptop.

I seriously doubt that 1070 will be lower priced than a 980m is now. Maybe over time, but when they arrive, it's sure that 1070m based laptops will cost more than a 980m counterpart. But if it's sure to perform better, it's actually normal, we just need to wait again for prices to come down... And like this, it will become and endless spiral of waiting and buyer's remorse for not waiting. Which is not fun.

One should buy what best fits his needs, when he has the money to, not keep waiting and dream about the perfect component, which will never exist.

 

What?

Spoiler

NOOO!!!

 

Not really, definitely cheaper to buy a new MXM GPU every few years than a whole new laptop - my 670MX only cost £230 back in 2013 (upgraded from 560M) and I managed to overclock it to faster than 780M stock levels, so that's been some fine value! New MXM cards are expensive, but still cheaper than a whole new laptop, and given that Intel i7 CPUs are all good & not really making any significant advances generation to generation then there's no point in buying a new laptop for a better CPU for instance, just change out the GPU.

(The support argument is a whole other ball game though, it's a bit of a crap shoot & often times workarounds required to get new MXM GPUs to work in old machines, mine doesn't have any negatives though except requiring modified inf for driver install, but that's expected).

 

Totally true!

Not to mention that the average performance from an integrated GPU is less than it's MXM counterpart usually.

Let's take a look at 980 notebooks: Clevo nailed it perfectly! Msi uses a hybrid trick, that in the end does not work very well for it's lifetime, nor for sustained performance, and no one seen how Acer implemented it, but so far, it's going to be more expensive than Clevo, but if it is cleaner than MSI, and can work fast, Acer would be the second company who managed to pull that. Oh... Asus... Well... Whoever carries a suitcase with a huge water cooling for a laptop will be happy with it... Cannot say more. But only Clevo has Desktop CPU inside too.

Seems like Clevo could pretty much become the only company making MXM laptops in the near future, and with best performance. Let's hope for better prices, as they are not cheap either. They can do great performance, but are not cheap at all.

 

Agreed. I'm in the market for a new laptop and don't have tons of funds available, so I'm trying to hold out a little longer not because I necessarily want to buy a Pascal-equipped laptop (although I might, if they aren't too expensive), but because Maxwell-equipped laptops are going to start coming down in prices. Can't be definitively sure what the market will end up looking like of course, but if 980M laptops end up being sold for several hundred dollars cheaper than a 1060M or 1070M laptop that offers similar performance, the 980M seems like it'll be the more cost-effective deal.

 

If ACER had put in unlocked firmvare and used socket hardware in their laptops, I would think they would clean the floor if the prices have been decent. They would kill Asus, Msi and Alienware. But this is the same as thinking AMD could lunch a Nvidia killer. A dream that a underdog raised and resisted against the Green greed. A dream

 

I think 1070 laptops will be priced like the x80M equipped laptops of today and yesterday.

Of course they will be. The manufacturers are not going to allow Nvidia to bump up the prices.

 

Indeed. That Asus G752VS with GTX 1070 supposedly starts from ~2,000 EUR, so pretty similar to where the older version with GTX 980M was back in October 2014 when notebook Maxwells launched.

Today prices are much cheaper (the cheapest Asus with GTX 980M can be found for just ~1,500 EUR, wow, feels strange), but that's both from natural slow price decay with time and from more radical price drop trying to clear the stock right before new models come.

 

I'd always recommend waiting for Clevo / Sager over any brand. They have the most powerful laptops on the market for very fair prices. Sure, they don't look as flashy, but they pack one hell of a punch and offer you the best price : performance ratio to that of any enthusiast gaming laptop on the market.

 

We need to test this. P650RG with a BGA GTX 980M vs a P750DM with an MXM 980M.

 

I own an Acer.

Never. Never again. It's... Not. Never going to happen again. Nope.

Clevo would had been better to have been easier to buy in some places. It's harder to buy from Romania than from other countries, and even though we have an official seller, one must search a bit before finding about Clevo machines and what they do and so on.

 

Indeed. My boss had a schenker workstation which was a clevo and he recommended me to check Schenker/XMG out. Ive never heard or seen them before that.
It took me a while to get here though

 

I know why the 1080M (1080-2048) leak on GT72/73 was limited to 63-65c

Picture below is my 1080 Zotac FE running an unlocked bios, with no power limit, on 4k firestrike. XOC 1080 Strix bios is used for this run -> http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=159025

Shame this is a damaged card (I slightly dented the die when installing a hybrid kit), will get it exchanged before the 15th. The card won't OC above 2088.

@Mr. Fox @Papusan @Prema @Phoenix

 

Owners of the 980M or 980, please do yourself a favor and wait until the 2017 Pascal refresh to upgrade.

 

What hybrid kit did you used and what temperature did you get on 1.24v?

 

So Is it done, The custom vBIOS ?

 

If Pascal cards don't fit MXM 3.0 boards, I'm probably not buying a new laptop for another 2 years.

 

If neither MXM or MXM desktop fit in a Clevo P870DM-G I'll be done with the laptop scene for good.

 

That's the problem with laptop "futureproofing". There is no such thing. No guarantees next gen cards will work and usually requires third party support (i.e. Prema). So while I like the notion of desktop power in a laptop, with future GPU upgrades, it's a risky and expensive purchase. I know everyone is anti-BGA, but fact of the matter is, upgrading just isn't a realistic expectation for any laptop, other than more RAM or storage, and frequently that's even not much of an option.

It's clear that Nvidia wants to lock out third party vBIOS updates, and even laptop BIOS are getting more tricky to update (ask Prema). So whether we have a removable / upgradable CPU or GPU is pretty much irrelevant, and going forward may not even be a possibility.

Enjoy what you have. If it works, great, otherwise, desktop all the way. I'm glad I went with desktop and a light laptop now. Granted it fits my needs better, and I know not everyone has that option, but I think many users will start to go back to that route considering upgrading is an ever increasing risky proposition.

 

Man gotta love MSI at this point, their 2 year guaranteed futureproofing really gave me confidence when I was choosing my system. The GPU will cost a ton but at least you have your mind at peace.

 

Have they flat out guaranteed this?

I mean, there isn't even any kind of confirmation on pascal MXM 3.0b modules.

 

At least you'll be able to upgrade to a desktop 980.

Like you've said previously - the 970m is good enough for most of your gaming needs. Having the ability to upgrade to a 980 up your sleeve is pretty great (and not something many other laptop owners enjoy).

 

Yup, I emailed them a while ago and they told they are already working on the separate modules which they will sell for upgrades.

Specifically only 2 series will be supported, the GT72 and the GT80. All this directly from MSI.

 

Nothing new to be honest.. MSI had guaranteed this in 2015 so at least this next gen should be fine.. Its after that its the issue.. Well hopefully we can take the MSI versions and flash a vBIOS and put them in a Clevo hopefully..

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From what I'm hearing, only 2 clevo models will be supported.

 

Man. I wish I could...

But MSI is another Acer. I would really not want to approach their hybrid power with a 10 m pole. Especially as it can burn the battery and explode the entire laptop out, due to very fast discharge of the battery. No battery is made to both support continous discharge and fast discharge like that.

Their engineers know what they are doing, but 90% they made it this way to ensure that after 3 years you actually need to buy another, so ensuring 2 generations of GPUs is a smart move, especially as the prices are very high.

Whaaaa? I wished for more clevo versions supporting this!

 

Go with desktop honestly, you probably a titan in a small form build nowadays for the price of essentially SLI 1070s.

 

I too would go to desktop if I could but my room at home has no space to put one in. It doesn't even have enough room for a proper sized bed, let alone a desk or place for a monitor. I sleep on a camp bed. Literally!