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Not likely. I mean they mention amd processors... If the game has any optimization at all, it will be multithreaded which is where hyperthreading shines.
Even for a TDP locked 4710HQ, if you didn't run at 3GHz+ in gaming, I would think it problematic. Games don't draw a whole lot of power, especially vsynced to 60. Now unlocked FPS gaming... that's a different tailed beast. Hell, high resolution gaming too is a quick way to give your CPU a vacation with how GPU bottlenecked it can be. I laugh at people buying 5930Ks to use with two 980s at 4K. An i5 would probably be just as well, with how GPU-bottlenecked that setup would be.
I remember when I was playing BF4 and getting 90 degrees and I proceeded to OC my GPUs and run the game at 200% resolution scale and "ultra" preset. I used so little CPU power my CPU sat at 72 degrees. My GPUs skyrocketed though, as expected.
It may be that my CPU is usually hanging around a 50 percent load during games and it has no reason to boost? Some games like GRID Autosport keep it at 3.2ghz, strange. Either way, cant wait for the game, glad newegg gave it to me for free
Do you have the maximum performance power settings turned on? If it's on balanced, your laptop will throttle the CPU unnecessarily. Outside of that, if your PSU isn't big enough, that can easily tank the CPU.
Yep its all on high performance. I even grabbed a 240watt psu for this thing since dell was dumb enough to ship with only a 180watt. I just played dragon age inquisition again and it stayed around 3.2ghz much of the time but I find it likes to also sit at just 2.5ghz and 40-50% usage. Im sure the witcher will tax the cpu more and use the boost
Have you tried monitoring with HWiNFO64 over a gaming session to see if it's throttling because of power usage? I don't have experience with HQ chips and from what I understand, they try to conserve power unlike my 4940MX but monitoring different games would easily give you insight into what's going on.
What you might need to do is undervolt. If you're not using the CPU that's fine; it'll sit at base clock under 100% processor state normally. But when under load it'll kick up. But those HQ chips are limited to 47W TDP, and adjusting sliders in Intel XTU does absolutely nothing.
Undervolting however increases the available TDP for the machine (within certain limits of course) so you might be able to sustain 3.3 or even 3.5GHz doing that. Unfortunately I don't think increasing current limit is a thing for those chips either, so you may run into a problem where with too low an undervolt and not enough extra current to supplement it, you end up current throttling. But that'll be decided by how good your chip is.
Listen. Return that. Buy a P177SM-A or a P770ZM. Like, now. Do it.
Yes, you should be able to do it via XTU. If you can't, you'll need to get Throttlestop 7 beta and the crack to extend its usage time, and you should be able to fiddle with voltages there.
As a self proclaimed master of 4720HQ manipulation, as D2 Ultima said, undervolting, and reducing the processor cache ratio as well as undervolting the processor cache, frees some watts to be used to maintain a higher clockspeed.
Your CPU will always boost to max speed if taxed, and it will maintain turbospeeds for less than a minute, or more, depending how much time you spend over 47W. After the turbo time windows ends, it will force itself to max 47W tdp.
I use -60mv CPU, -35mv processor cache, 28 processor cache ratio, and with those I average 3.55ghz speeds at 47w tdp in 99% of the games so far.
But again, as D2 Ultima also said, if your CPU can't sustain the speeds at the unvervolt, it won't clock as high regardless.
Thanks all for the information. Im currently prime95 testing at -75mv core, 30 ratio, and -35mv cache. So far so good. The cpu is staying right at 3.3 to 3.4ghz and it no longer goes over the 47watt tdp. I fell better about the witcher 3 now......lol
i spoke too soon, after about 20-30 minutes of dragon age, the clocks went down to 2.5ghz and stayed there. This sucks! Temps are below 90c so it cant be thermal, anything else i can change? Like the turbo window time or anything?
the games usage across all 4 cores is always between 15-40 percent, maybe a little higher when dropping nukes everywhere. When the cpu downclocks to the base clock, i get no frame drops, so it may be that it doesnt need the boost power, not sure if boost even works like that.
It sounds like it may be dropping because it is not being utilized. There's not really any other reason I can think of for it to drop when it's not being used.
during prime95 it drops also but not because of temps, its because its using almost 60watts of power, way over the 47 limit. Wish i could just raise the tdp permanently or change something to keep boost on 24/7
That's why I hate the HQ series of chips. Locked TDP that is too low to support sustained turbo. I've managed to pull a lot more than 60W with my MX for sure. I have to cap the TDP under 80W so it doesn't thermal throttle itself...
Unfortunately you can't with the HQ ones. The MQ ones can do it (hint: buy a clevo and sell your Alienware =D)
On stock voltage at 3.9GHz, I pull near 70W to render shadowplay videos in handbrake. Your chip should draw even more, and I am fairly certain your default speed is either 3.8 or 3.9GHz on 4 cores, so... yeah. 57W isn't even enough for stock, but at least that thing is unlocked.
Lol you're not kidding about 57W not even being enough for stock. I shoot down to 3.4-3.5 constantly on stock and the fans are constantly running under any load but when I tweak it to 4.1GHz on stock voltage with a 70W TDP even the fans quiet down. My machine is weird...
nah im going to stick with the alienware, the cpu clock has had 0 impact in my frames. The gpu has tons of headroom, maxing out at only 68C. Im thinking its not being utilized enough, during 3dmark and benching turbo always works
We established this before you even BOUGHT that thing, the amount of weirdness you've had.
You cannot. The slider means nothing at all. Your chip either does one of two things:
Will pull 57W for 2.5 minutes under load that requires it, then will sit at 47W and throttle accordingly until the workload allows the multiplier to rise without passing the TDP.
or
Will pull a maximum of exactly 47W, no more, no matter what you do, 24/7, forever. The ASUS lineup and MSI GT72 (not asked a GT80 owner to test) have confirmed that their machines run in that fashion. Mr. Fox got a 4980HQ to hit 4.1GHz for a firestrike bench, but TDP draw for that bench is not something I know for sure, and the 47xxHQ chips have exhibited different behaviour to the 49xxHQ chips.
To quote my CPU guide (extensive explanation):
The HQ line of chips, while having an allowance for OCing (eg i7-4980HQ's 3.6GHz 4-core base turbo can hit 4.2GHz like a 4900MQ), are very bad at actually holding their clocks. I've asked multiple users across multiple notebooks to test for me, and I've compiled the information about these extremely weird chips here. Also, the 48xxHQ chips are almost never sold, so I have no information on them.
47xxHQ chips: Increasing TDP limits, AMPs and power time windows via BIOS or XTU do not actually change for the chips. This means their max OC is likely not going to happen. In fact, under heavy load at stock boost clocks, there is a high likelihood of the chips downclocking, due to haswell being extremely power hungry. There is a slight circumvention to this however. Undervolting the processor and the cache can help reduce power drawn, and if you have a good enough chip, you can undervolt and overclock and mostly keep your clocks... but this is more luck of the draw than ever before, as unlike buying chips standalone, you would need to buy a whole new laptop to try for another roulette. If you have a bad chip like my 4800MQ is (I need stock voltage to overclock; compared to my last one which could do -80mV & +400MHz stable) you're never getting that changed. Good luck with the silicon lottery!
There also seems to be an issue depending on the BIOS of the machine. Most chips lock themselves to their 57W turbo boost short power max value for some duration if load spikes, however some machines (like the GT72 from MSI) lock themselves to the chip's 47W limit 24/7. This is a serious problem in demanding games like Star Citizen, or other exceedingly CPU-heavy games like other Cryengine 3 titles, Frostbite 3 titles and MMOs, especially in a scenario where the action spikes and your CPU load spikes... if the chip needs to and attempts to draw more power, your $3000 laptop will suddenly start throttling like a piece of crap. Angry about this? Go ***** at MSI and Intel.
48xxHQ chips: No information available. Have had no contact with users owning this chip. If you own this chip, PLEASE contact me so I can have you run tests. Until such time, assume behaviour of 49xxHQ chip line.
49xxHQ chips: increasing TDP limits and AMPs etc via BIOS or XTU *DOES* actually work for these chips. Confirmed using both Alienware and MSI notebooks. The problem however, is that the CPUs only keep the higher power limits for approximately 2 and a half minutes, just like with the 47xxHQ chips. This is more than enough for most benchmarks however, as anything that doesn't cross the base power consumption for the CPU will hold (such as GPU-heavy parts) and the parts that stress the CPU are usually ~1 minute long at most. When under serious load in gaming, however, such as unlocked FPS BF4 or if you're a livestreamer etc? These chips are not for you. They're not gonna keep their clocks (likely not even stock, unless you SERIOUSLY undervolt) under extended load times.
This cannot be fixed via system BIOS updates either. The Alienwares would be the most likely to allow it in their BIOS, but their BIOSes are locked down with Secure Flash and thus custom BIOSes cannot be used. Custom BIOSes for the MSI models exist, and can be used, but do not fix it. If CPU power is truly important to you, you want an older MQ-using machine from Clevo, Alienware or POSSIBLY ASUS (not tested on ASUS) or a desktop CPU-using laptop.
So the chips suck but your laptops can be really thin now, so that's good, right?
great info! Ill be happy with this as long as its not defective. Im here thinking my laptop has issues, but it looks like this behavior is normal. Oh well, the performance on this thing is insane anyways. If i need more, ill go to my desktop
Yeah I never thought I'd see the day that MSI surpassed Alienware... Its pretty crazy that Clevo is the last man standing although its not as surprising when you go back to Alienware's pre-Dell days when they were a Clevo reseller too!
phew....anyways some games wont downclock the cpu, its very strange. Well, im atleast excited to overclock the 980m like hell when drivers allow it. And sorry this thread went totally off topic
It's not strange, it's the TDP limit. Just because a CPU is at 100% does not mean it's requiring as much power as another program using 80%. For example: XTU stress test on my config uses ~60-62W. Linpack would use >95W. Rendering a shadowplay video in Handbrake would use ~68-72W. All have a similar CPU "load" balance.
Game A might use 70% of the CPU and drain 44W and game B might use 60% and drain 50W and you throttle. It's all relative.
check out the log below, you can see in red the clock speed and the power usage. It drops to base clock 2.5ghz as soon as the 47watt tdp is hit, that seems a bit strict! This was taken during crysis 3
I have actually managed to run into a CPU bottleneck with Crysis 3 before at 3.5GHz on 780Ms (I'm talking 95%+ on all cores and GPU util dropping), so I'm not surprised that with a similarly strong GPU config and a weaker CPU with a larger TDP lock that that's happening.
You should seriously see if you can undervolt that thing through XTU or Throttlestop 7 (assuming you can find the link to the crack, which, even though it has unclewebb's blessing, he has not officially linked anywhere).
And I hope for your sake you have a golden chip of some kind. (see why I keep making noise about HQ chips now? THEY SAID I WAS OVERREACTING)
Also, it seems to me like your chip is 100% 47W locked like the ASUS and MSI models. At least Clevo can spike to 58W for a short while.
During prime 95 I have seen 57 watts , but that didn't last long . Also I did under volt by -60mv core and -35mv cache and I still got shot back down to 2.5ghz in most games ......this sucks ! It seems to happen mostly when the gpu and cpu are both stressed also , hence why in 3dmark all the bench scores are unaffected and high , because each test only tests either graphics or physics . I'm not sure what else I can do here . I have a 240watt power supply so I know it can't be lack of power across the system ...
In that case, I need to blame your system itself. I'd suggest calling dell about it; maybe someone will give you a new motherboard or something. Otherwise, you're kind of screwed there. But a chip sitting at base clock and not turboing at all in most games (especially if it limits performance) is just terrible.
I've had the system replaced once by newegg already and they both share the same behavior , so I'm sure the system is fine. I just can't believe the restriction on this cpu . I can tell when it throttles back also because in some games I lose 15 fps. I still have the option to RMA this 2100 dollar laptop for a full refund.
Alright def just did the RMA for a full refund . Now I need to find the best laptop for my budget ( around 2500 usd) , that can max out the witcher 3 of course
That was indeed a weirder behavior, even by HQ standards. I have yet to find a game that runs at less than 3.6ghz. Of course I don't have either Dragon Age nor Crysis 3, just 1 and 2.
Prime95 itself is not indicative of the clockspeed as it fully loads the CPU, consuming over 60w and running at 3ghz on turbo. Nothing else loads the CPU that way for me.
The TDP is to blame. Had it been unclocked or adjustable, we would be more than fine. Damm intel pulling an nvidia on us forcefully.
Well. In my eyes, that's defective by design, and I would quicker return it for a working machine. It's entirely up to you though. It seems like Alienware has 100% dropped the ball this time.
If you want, it looks like you could get a P750ZM with a 4790K, 16GB of RAM, a 512GB M.2 SSD, a 1TB 7200RPM HDD, 230W PSU and a 980M for about $2200.
Edit: saw you said 2500 is your limit. Might as well get a P770ZM with a 330W PSU and fully deck it out.
I still have to play Witcher 1 and 2, or at least youtube them. The specs for W3 are interesting. Pretty high and far outclassing the hardware of Xbone and Ps4. I wonder if the graphics will be that much of a jump.
It was PC on high. Don't have time now but later i'll give you a link to the twitter post of a game dev saying that. And if you download the uncompressed video (on the witcher forums), you'll see it is not xbox.
Problems? See this thread at archive.org.
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