The hopeful of keeping MXM 3.0b alive thread!

RTX 2080 MXM has been sighted on Taiwanese reseller website .

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Link?
Standard, or Clevo-sized?
Actual RTX 2080 or GTX 2080 with RT removed?

 

https://www.cjscope.com.tw/cht/product_detail.php?serial=313

Clevosized. No idea about RT.

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Nice find!

Is that 144hz 1080p 100% AdobeRGB display?

 

Anyone familiar with Rx 480 MXM or BGA capable of handling 120Hz eDP displays??
The ASUS ROG STRIX GL702ZC which is the only recent Rx 580 equipped laptop has FreeSync monitor 40 to 60Hz but also has an optional model with 120Hz!!
I heard even HD 7970M and 8970M are not capable of 120Hz, is this also true?

 

I'm using 120hz external monitor. You should plug in external monitor to check . If it is compatibility issue, it will be black screen on any screens.

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OK, who bought out all the eurocomm 1070m for the p377sma? i was about to buy one in the next two months

 

A user here did, or at least I think it was it could've been the p375.

Anyways avoid eurocom cards as they are a black hole of funds out of your wallet.

Not sure if the newer Dell vbios equipped variant will work.

 

Bought a wx 7100 for 250 yesterday, going into my Ranger and popping in the 120hz panel once more.

Saw the listing on ebay for 280 usd with obo, sent offer of 250 and won it.

Hopefully everything works out from here. I have to save my money for other things but when I saw the listing on eBay and thought I could potentially swing it for 250 I jumped on it.

 

It will not work, and the reason I say this is because Dell themselves are to blame, they did not add support for AMD GPU's on their laptops for 120Hz displays and this is just not Dell it is MSI, Clevo the only laptop that I know of with a 7970M that supports 120Hz is a Samsung gaming laptop and anything newer is the Asus and the Acer ones with Rx 580 and Vega 56 respectively.

Both me and Rengsey R. H. Jr. have tested the M17x R4 with the WX 7100 and 120Hz display in PEG mode, he tested the original 3D display and I tested off-brand 120Hz display neither works.
AMD MXM cards support up to 240Hz or more from what I know just fine I tested my 240Hz monitor on my Alienware and it worked fine out the Mini DisplayPort at 1080p no issues.

The issues lay with the manufacturers not with AMD cards, 7970M wont support 120Hz displays in the Ranger either so your WX 7100 will just give black screen and 8 beeps, you are better off getting a 60Hz display and OC, or somehow modify the firmware on your 120Hz display and make it 60Hz and then manually OC it to 120Hz again inside Windows.

 

If it doesn't work then I'll return but iirc it's already been done in the ranger.

Not sure what 7970m has to do with anything, and also I have the ranger not the R4. I was under the impression that the gpu has already been tested in the ranger.

 

Sorry I meant the M290X, I screwed up, but people have tested it in the Ranger with 120Hz display it wont work, its because the Ranger never officially supported M290X with 120Hz displays in fact the Ranger that came configured with M290X always came with the 60Hz display. And again I say this because its a firmware issue, manufacturers just wont support AMD with 120Hz displays for some reasons I am guessing because they always came with the 3D technology and nVidia had a monopoly on it back then.

 

Not following, I didn't get the m290x either. I got the wx 7100 which is newer and should be suitable for eDP panel.

I already ordered it, so we will find out for sure when it gets here. If it doesn't want to work then I may just scrap the ranger altogether.

I guess I can also look for a nice 4k panel with good color accuracy. The WX 7100 supports 10-bit color on the desktop card, think the mobile variant also supports 10 bit or would that be a stretch?

 

Vega 7nm coming to gamers after all.


I cant post linn for some reason but it's on arstechnica announced from ces I think.

 

Because nVidia has unofficially killed MXM now, Dell has invented a new standard of upgradable mobile GPU's, and I hope it is widely supported by everyone because MXM while great has its downsides.
I applaud Dell for their effort in upgradability with this new approach.

Video of Linus tearing down the laptop, I hope there is an AMD option in the future, that be great, also 2080 Ti in a laptop, you wont see that on MXM standard

 

DGFF isn't a standard when it's a different form factor in every system that uses it. Precision 7530, Precision 7730, and Area-51m use 3 different designs.

 

I do like that the display connectors are actually on the GPU card ... like on a desktop GPU, rather than routed through the motherboard.

 

so Clevo is still using their Clevosized MXM, but you might need to change the heatsinks.

MSI only made 2070/2080 MXM, 2060 only exists as BGA.
and both 2070/2080 probably uses the same design as MSI 1080 MXM.

update: MSI mxm machines all dead.
LINK: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/6004445045

AW/dell uses DGFF and it has 3 different design for 3 different laptops.

upgrade-able laptops sounds dead to me.
My next machine is going to be a desktop.

 

By 'dead' you mean the different size/shape/layout of the cards means no upgradeability of existing models?

 

at least not upgrade-able to mine. 16L1/GT62/GT63 *MIGHT* has a chance by modifying the heatsinks, but the screw positions are different now, and might not have enough space for the fatter side.

 

Yup , DGFF and Clevo's MXM design are last ones left.


MSI has shown they will continue to change the design over and over.

 

No NvLink fingers there either. Guess nobody could figure out how to get that on mobile.

 

Or potentially nVidia didn't allow it.

Or i was just too much for current systems, who knows.

Although I agree with no one figuring out the connector part since it's quite different and bigger too.

 

At this point why even make it in mxm if you can't upgrade it from last gen cards.

 

Looks like Clevo is the only one allowing that. The 150W TGP though...

 

Wouldn't say allowing it. Prema needed to modify in support for RTX series in current models such as P870.

They weren't just plug n play. Clevo probably kept the same design because it costs lots of $$$ to make a custom design.

They also have some vBIOS issue where DM and KM models (6-core and quad core models) had different vBIOS and they weren't interchangeable unless you flashed the vBIOS.

Seems like every company is trying to not allow upgrades at this point.

 

Your tieba link is error 404.

 

This was the picture. It’s an MSI RTX 2070 board. I assume the 2080 will have the missing core phase populated. Looks like there’s space on the board for an external power connector as well.

 

Yuck.

 

The MXM standard is dead, nVidia unofficially killed it, its only mutated versions of the card left from the likes of Clevo and MSI, imao, good luck upgrading them though looks like the 1070 was the last MXM 3.0b card, unless the 2060 on MXM 3.0b comes out, I doubt it.
I am betting on the Dell standard more despite what people say, it has more promise than a standard being controlled by nVidia unless AMD comes up with something open standard for mobile another wishful thinking.

 

By that logic MXM is not standard either because there literally 8 or 9 variants of it

 

It was a standard before Nvidia deprecated it.

 

I can agree with that, I am not saying Dell is the thing we are looking for, I am just "hoping" its something to replace MXM with and become universal, perhaps I should just put it more clearly.
I like modularity but mutant MXM cards just piss me off, Asus ones looked like it came straight out of Pripyat

 

Which was the 980M, last official mxm 3.0b graphics card.

nVidia killed the mxm standard with GTX 980.

P5000, P4000, P3000 were the last official quadro cards as well to fully support the standard.

All newer cards based on "mxm" are variants made by Clevo, MSI, Aetina, etc.

Even the Quadro P5200, P4200, P3200 that have "standard" mxm 3.0b form factor, don't even have the eprom soldered onto the gpu so it cannot even be used in any system except the official zbook series they were released for.

The 1060 from MSI wasn't fully mxm 3.0b standard either. Only the 1070/1060 on ASRock boards (later revisions messed up the design by adding a tab) had 3.0b standard.

It's unfortunate, hopefully one day one of these DTR replacement companies putting desktop grade components find a way to install desktop PCI-e cards directly into the laptops (with their own cooling of course, not the card cooling).

 

huh, interesting, i did not know that fact about the quadro Px200 series of cards! so im guessing the eeprom is provided by the mobo in those machines? thats messed up!

 

So what were the differences from the mxm 3.0b then?

 

MXM is 100% dead now along with modularity / upgrade-ablity as well, I was wrong that It is alive in Quadro format. Looks like it's gone forever. And MSI / Clevo make their Re-animated zombie cards now.

Dell GFF from my impressions won't become universal. Did you see the connector on the GPU to Motherboard ? That's having no mount point, instead uses weird strips to connect which the same connection is there on the motherboard chipset, to eliminate the Z-Height. Also the ports on it are there especially. It's bad, because the chassis has to have a cut out like the same GPU exactly matching design like the ones in the Precision and Area 51M. And the motherboard doesn't have any I/O for the DP/HDMI ports so if any other machine want to support them, they MUST use Dell schematics and design even on motherboard which isn't the case with MXM, its like BGA on LGA. Even Dell doesn't know if Next gen GPUs would be available to be made on their own FF, this was said in the Verge video. So how is any ODM (MSI the only one who does it vertically)/OEM (Clevo, for GPUs ?) going to pay Dell the royalty for their design license, since there are now 2 (3rd MSI uses BGA code and crippled motherboard Phase design on LGA whitebooks and nonstandard Heatsinks) companies making LGA processors, DTRs, In which MSI makes for both themselves and Clevo.

I didn't knew that BIOS chips weren't there on the Zbooks since they are proper 3.0b. Damn that's insane. And on the WT75 MSI MXM GPUs - P3200 / P5200 are using MSI 1070N MXM mutation version with tab, that marks the WT75 having no GPU upgrade path as xx80 MSI cards are 3 versions with mutation level 3 madness. But Dell says having moved away from the MXM format they didn't have any limitations which is a nice joke since Dell Precision systems max out at P4200 DGFF.

Add lot of limitations, Ngreedia Falcon protection screwed up the scene as well no more public vBIOS mods and Intel lockdowns, MSI EC cancer, add the AMD incompetence, Aiming for consoles & Apple, which made Nvidia to have no reason to back the standard 3.0b MXM format anymore (Add Max-Q as one more reason), and stopped the reference spec and started this... anyone remember 7970M rebranded to 8970M and then again rebranded to R9 M290X, Fast forward we got Polaris on MXM, a failure as it could barely beat the Maxwell and Vega won't deliver even on Desktop. Also Clevo 870DM-DM3-KM-TM all damn machines cannot be upgraded even using same chassis from HS to GPUs, the infamous extra pin and the wierd distance b/w the MXM slots from DM to DM3 etc. Now with TM-R, another refresh, with no SLI (Ngreedia won't let anyone do NVlink), 100% another HS revision. This is getting bad and worse as each day passes.

This is truly end of line guys, I feel very sad, always wanted to own a P870 with Premamod because Win7 and BIOS (Both going to be EOLed in 2020) and this each and every damn revision gets worse, look at the 775, HS change again to unified. I just have a little interest now..As for my machine, Looks like Zotac GPUs wont be there and even I get one, need to have MOSFETs on it, also MSI 1060 is almost at 980M with slight OC, needs HS mod and P5000 MXM3.0b proper Dell version will be expensive and needs vBIOS mods.

Since 980M is showing it's age now, I will see how the notebook landscape changes over time for this year on Clevo machines, I'm not buying these all proprietary BS form factors and insane the price, too expensive and so many locks just to own it. It's just like Apple. Too many compromises..

Makes a lot of sense now to go to Desktop.

Edit : A few corrections.

 

Component layout:

1060:



780m mxm 3.0b:


P5000 /980M side by side:

 

MXM is still alive. 2080 and series below are compatible with 3.1. same as 1080 CLEVO.
All the stuff you're speaking of has happened before. Laptop, especially GPUs until two years ago were never able to keep up with desktop parts. Now they do that and still stay super efficient. What we're actually seeing is a switch from preformance to an wider scene w/ focus on TOD and other lighting as well as what extended cores can offer us.

 

Actually they could. See Khenglish's 980 DT unto a 980m PCB mod.

 

We do not know jack piss enough about the 20xx series on MXM to say its 3.1 compatible, sure it might FIT into the port of MXM connectors, but will it work? At best it might work with one or two gen older Clevo chassis, but working in Dell, HP, MSI or something other than Clevo with MXM ports? Not likely in fact I am going to go as far as to say not gonna happen.
I like to believe too but we must face reality, Clevo has probably done something to those cards just to get a 2080 chip on it. Remember, these are not small dies and neither are they low power like pascal was.

 

Since when the "component layout" does belong to the specification of the mxm system?
According to what you have said, AMD uses a different format than the "standard" mxm for a long time with
6970m, 7970m(8970m/m290x),wx7100. And what about Gecube, Aetina, Eurocom, Zotac cards?
Length and width is in line with the mxm standard. Same as the hole placement, it is identical.
Msi gtx1070 or clevos gtx are let's call it mxm 3.1 standard but not gtx1060 which perfectly fits the "mxm 3.0b" requirements.

I thought you would surprise me with some technical data, differences regarding the use of individual pins from the mxm connector. Visually and technically (in my opinion) it is still the mxm3.0B standard.

 

AMD mxm 3.0b cards (7970M, 6990m, 6970m, etc.) and nVidia 3.0b cards (980M and below) all work in our original mxm 3.0b laptops (such as my alienware m18xr2). No need to exchange heatsink, nothing, drop in.

However, the MSI card requires modifying the heatsink (grinding it down).

Why do you think I can drop a P5000 in my laptop no issue, no heatsink mods (same generation as a 1060 btw) compared to a 1060 where I need to do mods.

There's a standard for a reason and yes look at my sig I do have a 1060 and also "standard" mxm 680m's as well. The heatsink had to be modified to make it work and it's like this with many laptop models.

P5000 was the last true drop in mxm 3.0b standard card. All other cards are now a variant of the original standard ever since nVidia stopped supporting it.

This is the only "standard" mxm 3.0b 1060:



This is the only "standard" 1070:


Notice they all have the same format that's been used for years? yes this is called a standard. Not the crap everyone else has been putting out. Those other cards are not "standard" mxm 3.0b designs.

 

Hold on hold on...
...so what you are saying is that 1060 is not a mxm 3.0B card because you have to modify heatsink, but
both 780m and 970/980m are, despite the fact that in this case also the components layout is different and you also need to modify heatsink? In gt60/70 for example. Srsly mate?

I also have gtx1060, both versions: for laptops and from vortex.
Polished(lapping) copper plate with a thickness of 0.5mm, used between the graphics card's core and the heatsink eliminates the problem of "modification". This is not a complicated operation, and not worth removing the gtx1060 from the group of cards that belong to mxm3.0B, I think so.
Differences in temperature between the "copper plate way" and "heatsink mod/cut" reached 3° in my clevo P170EM. I had tested it by myself, using Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut.

 

A standard isnt a broad stroke, its the details. Details to which you dont appreciate, which is fine in and of itself, really. However just because you dont appreciate them doesnt make them any less of a detail to be considered as part of the whole.

 

Well, I can say that if you need to install additional vbios or bios, or modify the graphics driver files for the graphics card to work properly, the card is also not in the standard mxm3.0b because it does not work like p&p and requires some modifications.
This doesn't fit mxm3.0b tech spec:


I did not come here to argue, I was hoping for some decent dose of technical information clearly showing why 1060 does not belong to the mxm 3.0B standard, not personal opinion or someone's point of view.

Regards! :]

 

Again, the point seems to be going directly over your head.

But its w/e, wont change how I sleep tonight one way or the other.

 

There isn't an argument to be made here - Z-height is a part of the official MXM standard. That is not an opinion.

 

Don't forget before that generation, the power of the laptop counterparts were much less than their desktop based counterparts. The 9 Series already had been released with a full desktop 980, in both MSI, Clevo, and even Dell Computers.

 

Could I mod that 1080 to fit In a 3.0b I wanna upgrade my p377sma.