The ThrottleStop Guide

Post a screenshot of the Options window. There are a few things in there like the Alarm feature or the Default Profile feature that could be causing your profile to change back to 1.

 

I believe with a -150mv undervolt a 7700HQ will NOT exceed 45W in pirime 95. I did forget if it was small FFT or blend however. But one of those two were absolute max 43.8W.

 

@cj_miranda23: Click on Options and set your profile on AC and battery and TS will change according to power source.

 

Quick question;

I have a Kabylake Macbook Pro 13' on bootcamp. I've been fiddling around on Throttlestop, some functions work like disabling turbo but when I try to do voltage offset anything goes.

I did a -1000mV core and cache and the system accepted it so I'm guessing it's not actually going through. Likewise on XTU the voltage offset is greyed out.

Does anyone know if I can undervolt or has Apple sealed out the option in the BIOS?

Cheers

 

Found something interesting. EPP 0, my games are running definitely hotter. Usually my games go up to 65C on High Performance but when I was running EPP 0 for a couple of days I have been noticing temps hitting 70-73. The GPU temp is higher too but that might be because heat pipes are shared.

 

I decided to give up Windows Server2016 as it was a hassle to do some basic stuff such as having a second monitor, bluetooth and so on.
Installed Windows 10 1703 Education and I'm still facing the same issue of not being able to enter C7 state.
Attaching powercfg dump.

 

@Falkentyne - P95 Small FFTs has my 4700MQ screaming for mercy. It immediately hits the 56 Watt PL2 limit and the multi starts to throttle. After a short amount of time, it throttles further down to the long term 47 Watt limit. The Blend test is a little more gentle.

@Michael Li - Looks like Apple has decided to lock voltage adjustment. There was no need to do that but that is how Apple rolls. Lock 'er down.

@plee82 - More heat is generally a sign of a faster CPU or GPU. It might also be a sign that summer is here and it is getting warm out.

@villahed94 - I will have a look at your powercfg dump but I do not know how to turn C7 on.

 

Tested back High Performance profile and temps are down. I will switch later tonight to EPP 0 and see how it goes.

 

@unclewebb
This is prime95 on a 7820HK at 3.4 ghz, undervolted at -150mv:

 

Thanks @Falkentyne

It looks like Prime95 is not an excessive load at all for a 7th Gen mobile CPU as long as the voltage has been set appropriately and the multiplier is not too high. Looks like Intel has made some progress over the last few generations when it comes to power consumption.

One interesting thing I noticed is that CPU World claims that the default multipliers for a 7820HK are:

1 Core Active - 39
2 Cores Active - 37
3 Cores Active - 35
4 Cores Active - 35

Your screenshot shows the 34 multiplier so I was wondering if you changed this or if the info at CPU World might be wrong. It shows the same default turbo multis for the 7820HK and the 7820HQ.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/Intel-Core i7 i7-7820HK.html

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/Intel-Core i7 i7-7820HQ.html

If you changed your multiplier to 34 for a direct comparison to my 4700MQ, that makes sense.

@plee82 - Maybe run a TS Log File to make sure the multiplier and voltages are more or less the same in both situations. A significant difference in temperatures makes me think that one of those two variables might be different. On some laptops, enabling Speed Shift automatically disables a popular throttling method. I have always been suspicious that one reason laptop manufacturers have shied away from Speed Shift was because it interfered with their throttling schemes. Conspiracy theory #101.

 

Interesting. Could SST have different voltages?


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@unclewebb

*edit* i have AVX and FMA3 instructions disabled in prime95 because the load with them enabled is absurd.
I'll re-enable them and take another screenshot.

The default mulitplier for a 7820HK is actually x29 without turbo boost.
With turbo, yes those are correct.
But this is a completely unlocked processor, so you can set the multipliers to whatever you want (as long as core 1 >core 2, etc).
I have one profile in throttlestop with all four cores at x45, default voltage, cache at x42 (this has to be set manually; seems like the Bios caps the cache at "either" x36 or 3 under the cpu ratio, unless you override it with the manual cache settings). Even if you set the cache mulitplier to x45 in the FIVR control, and set range from 8 to 45 at "cache ratio", it will still put cache -3 under cpu ratio (x42).
CPU is fully stable at x45 core, x42 cache, default volts, but forget about running Prime. Even with AVX Disabled, small FFT will get into the 90's. AVX will reach 100C.

You can force cache to the same as CPU ratio by setting min and max cache to the same value.
At x45 and at x44 this causes a hard lockup at load. My profile for x42 multiplier on all cores has cache at x39 and -100mv. Setting cache to x42 with CPU core at x42 will hard lock if undervolted. (it's fine at default volts).

 

Load will exceed 45W if temp gets past 75C. I had the fans on auto and the temps were at 73C and slowly going up. I set the fan to 100% then the temps dropped fast.

 

I returned mine the day after I found they disabled undervolting.

 

It seems that everything now is okay. Tried to observed it for a day and never face the problem again and the funny thing is I never did anything to fix it. @unclewebb pic is attached!

 

EPP 0, playing Doom on ultra settings, highest anti-aliasing settings and Vulkan API, CPU/GPU max 70C/72C. I am not finding any difference now with High Performance Profile. I decided to just leave it with Speed Shift because I like how I can just modify the EPP value in TS and change the performance of my CPU easily. I also believe letting the hardware have control of the CPU has to be more efficient than letting Windows do it. Undervolting to -146mv through TS is also a godsend.

 

how can I set prochot to turn on at 95c (right side main page)? I can't check box.

 

Its triggered automatically at 95C. No need to check it.

 

thanks Vasudev

 

If it ever happens again, send me your ThrottleStop.INI file so I can have a look. There might be a conflict in there (bug) that I am not aware of. Just for your info, your screenshot shows that EPP is checked on the main page. Speed Shift is not enabled within the processor so checking that option off will not do anything. If you are using Speed Shift, you need to first enable Speed Shift in the TPL window. I am in the process of redesigning the Speed Shift option so it is better laid out and easier to follow. I started redesigning the main page but now I am leaning towards creating a separate window. The goal is to try and keep the people that like Speed Shift happy and also keep the other people that want to ignore Speed Shift happy.

I always like hearing stuff like that. Intel has created a lot of problems for notebook users by setting the default voltage so high. You would think with all the smart guys working there that Intel could create a default voltage curve that follows what the processor actually needs a lot better.

 

Having an issue. Profiles are not setting the voltage offsets. I have a profile called default that resets the voltage offsets to zero. I tested it and my voltages are staying -145mv.


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I am wondering if I have to unlock the voltage and explicitly set it to zero.

Edit: yup that was it!

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Yes. That is exactly what you have to do.
When voltage is changed, when you switch to a profile without voltage changes, it uses the "current" voltage, which was changed by another profile. Throttlestop doesn't exactly know what the "default" voltage is if voltage adjustments are not enabled, so then it uses the current setting. So you simply unlock voltage adjustments and keep the sliders at default.

Proof: learned from several BSOD's at 4.4 ghz at -100mv undervolt because I was trying to use default voltage without unlocking voltage for the 4.4 ghz profile.

 

Doing this because I got freeze when I was playing Doom and I had to pull the AC power. It did not like the undervolt setting on battery while playing Doom. I set a battery profile with no voltage offset and EPP set to 102 (40% reaches x38).


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Which begs the question, why would an undervolt failed when running on battery (under load). Shouldn't the battery provide enough juice?


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It has absolutely NOTHING to do with juice.
It has everything to do with IDLE voltage.

When you undervolt, you undervolt everything--which applies to load and idle voltages. An undervolt of -150mv at 1.1v is not that much, but an undervolt of -150mv at **0.7v** is a LOT percentage wise On battery power with those low power power states active, your CPU may downclock to 800 mhz, at default 0.7v, then undervolt to 0.550v. It may not be stable at such a low voltage.

What you want is to change the battery power profile, and adjust the undervolt a bit. Maybe try -100mv.

Basically, if you want to test quickly what an undervolt is good for, go to Speed Shift, set it to whatever you want (0 or 255), but then go to the TPL window, and set both the minimum and maximum speed shift values to the same value. Try 8. This will force 800 mhz on your CPU.
Then stress test it and see if you're stable.
If you are, change the speedshift value (i'm not exactly sure how this works when increasing mulitplier steps; ask @unclewebb) and test intermediate multipliers (e.g. below 16) and see if you are stable at the undervolt you want.

 

Hello !
Been using TS for a while now on a 4700MQ & a 6700HQ, going to be getting a small notebook for note taking and was wondering if TS worked on a N3710 ?

 

Yup thanks for that, unfortunately when I enable speed shift I experienced freezing. What's causing this? Maybe my undervolt is too high? Take note I never crashed or had a BSOD with my undervolt(155,155,45) while using REALBENCH for bench marking and some realistic situation were I played 4 hrs straight games or did some heavy CADD work while some apps are open i.e playing youtube while 20 tabs are open. Should I do long hours of stress testing? It seems counter productive to me. What could be the consequence in a long run if my undervolt is too high for my cpu?

PS. I did btw 25 rounds of INTEL BURN TEST and every thing is okay.

 

ThrottleStop should work on a Pentium N3710. Post some screenshots if you have any success or problems. You will not be able to overclock a N3710 but you might be able to adjust the turbo power limits a little higher to help reduce full load throttling as long as the bios has not locked everything up.

I have not done any Speed Shift testing on a mobile Kaby Lake CPU so it is hard to say what might be causing your freezing problems when it is enabled. If you can run reliably with less voltage with Speed Shift disabled then I would leave it disabled. Your under volt might be right on the edge of stability. If you are running a computer that is not 100% stable, the only negative I can think of is that some Windows files might get corrupted. I prefer to be a hair above the bare minimum for voltage, just to be safe. Do you know how to check for WHEA errors in Windows? Do a Google search or check out the guide on Overclock.net for more info.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1317335/whea-error-alert-guide-or-how-i-got-out-of-wheaville

 

Note: My cpu is a 7700K desktop processor inside a clevo barebone KM1 laptop.

I did check the link but I stopped on step 2 since it didn't show me any errors. So I guess everything is fine then? Planning on overclocking since i got a nice undevolt value, just waiting to re paste again and prema bios.

 

Try Hwinfo sensors monitoring.

 

What C state is your CPU idling in now? C3?


I have this exact problem. When I do a clean install of Windows 10 from the Microsoft website, my CPU won't go any lower than the C3 state, according to ThrottleStop. This causes the CPU to idle at 1.4W, regardless of clock speed.

However, I upgraded my laptop to an SSD the day I got my laptop, as it came with a WD10-JPVX HDD. THis is the issue:

The HDD version of Windows that acer gave me is Windows 10 10240, and that installation of windows allows the CPU to go down to the C7 state. CPU Power consumption is reduced to 0.4W on idle

The SSD version, no matter what version, 10240, 10586, 14393, or 10563 won't work.

So what I do is, I clone the HDD to my SSD, and then do whatever I want from there.

I can confirm for sure that it is not the Windows Power Plan that is causing the issue, I exported and imported it using the powercfg -import { Insert Power plan GUID here} command.


This leads me to believe that it is a driver issue, with Windows not recognizing the proper C state? Idk

I have never bothered downloading drivers from Acer's website, it hasn't been updated for months. Try updating yours, and downloading the drivers from your manufacturers device. When I say update your device drivers, I don't mean downloading some stupid program like Driver Booster, or just clicking 'Update' on Windows Update, I mean manually click update driver in devmgmt.msc. Try all drivers under 'System Devices'

 

I am not sure if you know this but the powercfg command has an option to show all of the hidden settings in a power profile.

powercfg -qh >C:\power.txt

The q option queries the current power profile and the h option includes the hidden entries which will get written out to a file called power.txt on your C drive. Just curious if you compared all of these hidden entries as well.

The Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (Intel® RST) driver might have an option that disables C7. The purpose of this is to reduce latency so SSD benchmark numbers look better. This also might be part of the default Microsoft driver. My memory is very foggy so don't quote me on this. Your testing is very interesting and I am glad you posted a way to trick Windows into letting you access C7.

@cj_miranda23 - Just curious. When you were having freeze problems when using Speed Shift, were you using EPP = 0 or did this happen when using any value for EPP? The purpose of Speed Shift is to get the processor to change speeds faster when coming off idle. It is possible that this could lead to more instability problems, especially when overclocking or under volting.

I agree with @Falkentyne that when under volting, it is a good idea to use ThrottleStop to lock the CPU multiplier at 8 and do some full load testing at low speed as well as at high speed. Most people usually only test their voltage at full speed but many random freezes happen when the CPU is lightly loaded so it is a good idea to test both speeds. Maybe a future feature for TS would be a Vary Multi button so you could push this while running Prime95 and TS would rapidly and randomly vary the multiplier up and down while the CPU is loaded. This might be an interesting way to flush out less than 100% stable voltage settings.

 

I might stress that CPU C state remains at C7, however, Package C state remains stuck at C3. C8, 9, and 10 states are disabled by Acer


It is interesting you should mention that command; I recognize it from the 'powercfg -?' command, but never bothered to use it. I did, however, go into the registry to Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings

From there, I expanded every single folder with the GUID, and Changed the DWORD Key of Attributes from 1 (Hidden) to 2 (shown) like this in powercfg.PNG

Changing the DWORD to 2 will allow you to change the values in advanced options in power plan settings in control panel


Particularly interesting is how there is about fifty power settings that are hidden, only three are unhidden under the processor tab- Minimum Processor State, System Cooling Policy (Pah! Never does a thing) and Max Processor State.

With the unlocked settings, I can change the aggressiveness of Turboboosting. Not sure about other components such as LSM or GPU settings.

I have unlocked all these options, and compared them in Power Options. They are exactly the same - which leads me to believe that on my Skylake laptops some settings are obsolete and exist superfluously.



Oh, and by the way, you mentioned before that changing the Minium Processor State under the high performance plan essentially turns the High Performance power plan to the Balanced power plan. That is not true for me

When I have Min Proc State set to 0%, 5%, or even 50% the CPU still TurboBoosts at its maximum 3.0/3.1GHz

I have to fiddle around with GUID

54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\12a0ab44-fe28-4fa9-b3bd-4b64f44960a6

and


54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\12a0ab44-fe28-4fa9-b3bd-4b64f44960a7

I believe those two are the main settings that determine the algorithm for selecting processor speed.


But here's the main thing:

Intel Speed Shift essentially ignores everything related to clock speeds. No matter what I do with the CPU settings SST takes over. I do, however, notice a change in C state.


Anyway, have fun unlocking things in Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings



And this is precisely why I keep throttlestop running under the Power Saver power profile. Balanced does the same thing, limiting the package to C3. I must have a look at other settings, such as Link State Management. I'm certain it has something to do with either power options or a driver.

 

EDIT:

Sorry, the following GUIDs may also have something to do with C states


Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\3b04d4fd-1cc7-4f23-ab1c-d1337819c4bb

Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\40fbefc7-2e9d-4d25-a185-0cfd8574bac7


And the aggressivenesss of the power plan as a whole:
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\245d8541-3943-4422-b025-13a784f679b7
o s

Ooh, and I'd also like to remind you to be careful not to ever close the Control Panel\System and Security\Power Options tab after you have selected any power plan other than Balanced. On Windows 10 Creators Update 1703/10563 Microsoft has simply decided that power plan isn't important anymore. They will disappear once you close the control panel window. If you want to enable any power plan other than Balanced after you close it, you'll have to irritate yourself by using the command line to re-enable the High Performance or Power Saver plan.


I'm a Microsoft fanboy, so I'm in the WIndows Insider Fast Ring. And I'll list my knowledge of power management from Creators Update onwards:

1. Power plans are being removed
2. Power throttling is a thing, allegedly reducing PCU usage. This essentially throttles specific processes. I've never noticed any drop in power consumption regardless. None of my programs throttle anyway
4. Microsoft is moving to a slider in the Battery flyout, which allows the user to select between batteyr saver, balanced, and high performance. According to Microsoft 'This will only be shown on select hardware on specific machines'. I bet it has something to do with Speed Shift. Regardless, this does nothing on my machine for the time being.


I don't really agree with the steps Microsoft is taking. They want to hide EVERYTHING technical beneath the cushion, and have everything simple for the user. But I want to be able to see everything that goes on in my system, and I like to have control over Windows.

 

I tried it for both EPP=0 and EPP 128 settings. The only difference is the time it took before the freezing happened. I think the 128 took longer.

 

I used Winaero tweaker to add power options to context menu. So, 2 clicks will switch to Balanced, High performance and power saver.

 

Looks like I will be returning my laptop. Laptop shuts down at 47% battery, even in BIOS. Thinking about downgrading the CPU to 6700HQ but upgrading the GPU to a GTX 1070.

 

Is it Alienware? The battery can't handle gpu at 100% load and if GPU temps are >75C, the battery simply gets too hot and shuts off. So on battery light load is recommended, i mean very light load that use intel gfx. @judal57 can confirm this.

 

MSI GT62VR kaby lake with gtx 1060. It even shuts down in the bios at 47%. GPU temp at idle 35C.

 

Its the same. I reckon you have 70Wh or more battery to get decent battery life with dGPU always turned on for Gsync

 

Just weird it happens to me only and not the other GT62VR owners. Btw left laptop overnight after shutoff and could not turn it on unless I plug AC power. 47% left once it starts up.


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Happens sometimes. Maybe turn on Battery Boost tech for NVidia GPU that will throttle the GPu from reaching above 75C and extend battery longevity. I turned on Battery boost just to alleviate the issue.

 

That is the thing, my gpu does not reach 75C. It stays at 35C and pc shuts off without warning at 47%.


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Any battery saving tech software installed by MSI?

 

Yup, but I have just found out that the battery is reporting the wrong max charge value as well wtf! Over 20k more than it is rated for.


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That sucks.

 

Did you do the EC reset like I told you to in the other thread, and then run the battery calibrator?

 

Yes and at 47% laptop shut down.

 

Got the 6700HQ now with 1070 GTX. Going to undervolt later tonight after installing all my stuff. Do not want to get freezes during installs lol.


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