The ThrottleStop Guide

If you're on a laptop then AC and battery profile switching based on power usage will be helpful.
On desktop we don't have a workaround. I hope unclewebb can work it out.

 

I don't understand this? You can set hotkeys to change profiles. My statement was that it used to work X way and it no longer does.

What are you trying to ask the function for?

 

Giving you the screenshots(i5-4200U) for your reference,


As you mentioned, if the microcode is 0x24, the powercut features may be fixed already so it may not be function as expected.

About the PL1/2 in GPU, from my experience, it is just around maximum 12W(it is monitored by GPU-Z), if it needs more, the PL will be triggered. This PL seems to be controlled at other place we do not find it out yet. Thus, it is unavoidable the GPU is still being PL.

As my experience, my previous i5-4200U CPU and my current i7-7500U CPU, the memory "FED159A0/4" is important for the PL unlocked(if your system/BIOS is set at this location). I keep it as "8140" for my both laptops. In my current i7-7500U, I found that if the temperature is so high enough, about 87C, the PL will be triggered again and endup the memory "FED159A0/4" is reset as power up default. Thus, I set the TS that once the temperature raise to 87C, it will trigger the low power profile as well as run a script to set the memory "FED159A0/4" to be "8140" again. Although there is some throttling situation, it can maximize the CPU performance in unavoidable PL situation. Also, I set this script("8140") to be run every minute, wake up after sleep/hibernation and the Windows startup in order to ensure "8140" is set all the time.

 

The new 7th/8th CPU, the GPU and System Agent offset voltage must be set as the same in order to take effect the offset voltage on GPU.

I also can set it to -165mV in my i7-7500U but it cannot pass 3DMark Time Spy(DX12) test. It can only pass the test at -115mV. However, the lower undervolt should be alright for your system since the heavy GPU loading should be run by the MX150 not UHD620.

The U series CPU is actually designed for high CPU workload with less(casual) GPU workload such as playing HD/UHD movie. This kind of processor is not for playing 3D games.

 

Thanks, I got an i7-8750H and didn't know that the System Agent had to be offset as well to undervolt the iGPU. Going to do that now...

 

I didn't realize we should be setting the system agent and analog I/O voltage offset to the same value as CPU core and cache. After doing so, got two different BSODs. The first one IRQL I recognize from undervolting too much, but hadn't seen it since playing with the system agent/I/O voltages. The subsequent BSOD Kmode Exception Not Handled. After my machine rebooted, I removed the offset voltages for system agent and analog I/O. No more BSODs.

Is it really important that we offset the system agent and analog I/O voltages? Could be I need to raise my undervolt - currently at -130.9mv.

 

Here is some info you might find useful. There is a lock bit available that controls the long and short power limits found in those 2 memory mapped registers. When you set the lock bit, nothing will be able to change the power limits you set until the next stand by, hibernate or reboot. No need for a script once this is locked, it is locked.

We call this trick, beating them at their own game.



Set the lock bit and then try to change the power limit using RWEverything. It will briefly show that the power limit has changed but a second later after it has time to resample this register, it will show that it is locked to whatever value you locked it to. Bit[31] in FED159A4 locks both FED159A4 and FED159A0.

No one said anything about needing to offset the Analog I/O voltage. Just the iGPU and System Agent should be set equally. You can try only adjusting the iGPU voltage but there is a good chance that on many recent processors, this by itself will not accomplish anything. If this is the case, adjust iGPU voltage and System Agent voltage equally.

 

I'll apply the same offset voltage to Intel GPU and System Agent and leave Analog alone. I will also take a stab at figuring out the Power Balance between CPU and GPU. Right now, Throttlestop shows Intel GPU with a slightly higher number (13) to CPU (9). I saw in an earlier post (#7997) have this ratio as 31 to 8. Curious what that effect will be.

I'll keep on playing and learning!!

 

Yes, thanks unclewebb to mention about it that I really forget this lock bit when I set. I update the value now. Thanks.

Before, I did not aware this lock bit since there is no this reset issue in my previous i5-4200U laptop.

After set, the current i7-7500U can run without PL anymore. It can run up to 33W with 100C. However, if it goes on, the system will be shut down itself by thermal protection.

 

As my experience, the "Power Balance between CPU and GPU" all depends on what you are really want to do in your computer. If you need to get more GPU performance and the CPU performance is not important, you can set higher number in GPU and lower number in CPU. Otherwise if both are important for you, just set the same value of the both field. The value is from 0 to 31 but it is just the ratio, the actual value is not important, that is "1 & 1" and "31 & 31" should be the same. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Never really knew Hotkey functions were available to change profiles. Thanks for that.
I disabled Power throttling for TS under battery saver settings. I had instances where TS would force close itself abruptly w/o any warnings. After disabling pwr throttling, TS never force closed for me.
@D2 Ultima How do you recover from bad overclock on a desktop when you can't log into Win 10? Power source will not work since UPS provides backup power. Any ideas?
Also Win defender users enabling Core Memory isolation you'll see TS reporting 0MHz aka TS works as if it was running on VM.

 

Cmos clear? I never use throttlestop starting with windows, even if my safe profile was corrupted I'll still be OK

Sent from my OnePlus 1 using a coconut

 

Thanks Vasudev for figuring that out. I was not sure how I was going to fix a problem that I could not recreate. The official fix so far is simple, "Do not use Windows Defender". Problem solved.

@cktducky - Nice to see another 7500U running at full steam. I picked up a Lenovo E570 - 7500U for my wife and with a few minor tweaks, it too liked to run at full speed with zero throttling. I think the screenshot below is before I did some under volting.



I wonder what the true cost of a properly running laptop with a U CPU really is. Maybe it would cost a manufacturer an extra $10 bucks per laptop to include a proper heatsink and fan. Maybe $20 bucks. Big deal. You would think buyers would line up to buy a simple business type laptop that was guaranteed not to be gimped from the factory. Quality and pride in a job well done is gone.

 

Could I get some insight into the Turbo Power Limits tab? I'm fine with speedstep and undervolting in FIVR, but I haven't really gotten a good understanding of optimal settings for the TPL tab. The only things I've done are to uncheck the 'Clamp' box by Package Power Long and enabling speed shift when TS starts.

I have an i7 8750h paired with a 1060 max q. Would it be best to use a 31 cpu, 0 gpu ratio? And I need to check by Intel Power Balance to enable that ratio? Any other recommendations? Thanks all and major props Uncle Webb; ThrottleStop is so awesome!

Edit: I've noticed something new as I was fiddling around. I was running the TS benchmark and getting errors so I stepped back my cpu undervolt, but then I noticed that my speed shift is showing in FIVR as 84 when the voltage is lower (around 0.6) and then shows 0 again when it's above 1.0V. Is that normal and just something I never noticed? My setting is 0 as shown, but it fluctuates on the FIVR screen.

 

Every penny in mass producing is a lot of money. I don't even think it would cost an extra $10, but rather $0,50 for each machine. But multiply that by, idk, 100k and it's 50 grand saved or spent extra.
If you think that's pretty frugal, remember that they even cut Mini PCIe connectors from boards that aren't using them.


oh, btw:

THINNER AND LIGHTER FOR $600 is much better to market than WILL NOT GO OVER 65°C UNDER STRESS TEST FOR $650

I also think most of the issues aren't about the heatsink and fan itself, but mostly thermal paste, which they can easily replace. However they prefer to use a lesser performing grease that will last the lifetime of the laptop vs a high performing paste that will most likely run into issues in 2 or 3 years, and requires extra man hours to assemble

 

Windows 10 is competing against TS for gaining control of your CPU so...the best method to avoid that is to show hidden power settings by going through this registry [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Power\PowerSettings\] and then , Check if DWORD “Attributes” exists , If it doesn’t create it by going to Edit > New > DWORD (32-bit) Value, Set “Attributes” to 2 by double clicking/tapping the Atributes key and entering 2.

You will see this option like this image below on Power Options once you find it.. simply put it 0% which mean Full Performance Hope I helped



After that you will realize you will have full CPU speed

 

If you do this mod and ThrottleStop requests an EPP value of 84, do you know if this will cause another fight with Windows wanting 0 and ThrottleStop wanting 84?

My personal preference would be to tell Windows, "do not touch EPP" and let ThrottleStop handle EPP so you can use different EPP values in different TS profiles. If that is not possible without a fight between Windows and ThrottleStop then maybe users should not be using the EPP setting in ThrottleStop and just let Windows have control of this. Thanks for posting that setting.

@Tekigun - There is probably no need to use TDP Level Control or Intel Power Balance. I would leave both of those disabled for now.

One word sums it up. CHEAP.
I call it the WalMart effect. Everything imaginable is built to the lowest possible price point. Quality is an after thought. More by accident than by design.

 

Thanks! Tried the regedit, but not sure I added the Attributes Dword correctly. A simpler fix popped up in that on balanced power plan my min. processor state when plugged in wasn't at 100%. Woops!

 

Yes, it will cause another fight and as you said

Just simply stop using the SST on TS and let windows do its thing

 

Will show you a better example then

 

I have a desktop with Windows 10. I can use ThrottleStop to enable Speed Shift. Windows completely leaves Speed Shift and EPP alone. I might have to go do some registry digging to see what is possible for those that would rather have TS in charge of EPP. I hate giving up control over my CPU to Windows. It is the principle of the thing.

 

Got it, thanks to your additional screenshot. I do see the hidden property 'Processor energy performance preference policy' now with attribute value 1. Gonna let TS handle it for now, but good to know!

And thanks for the reply uncle webb! Got my laptop all set then

 

I completely understand but with un-hiding power settings.. you will have full control and full power of what Windows is doing on your CPU on my case I just let only windows control the SST while other things I let ThrottleStop have full control as always

I just let windows work with my CPU under my desire not his I'm a CFP which means I'm a C ontrol F reak P erson at least that's what I always call myself with

 

My 8550u + W10 seems to respect ThrottleStop's EPP. It runs at 184 on Battery, 128 plugged in and 64 when gaming (set on each profile). From 0% to 100% usage, it seems to fully respect what's set on TS.

On another note, for some reason CS:GO seems to run at a lower CPU speed than usual. While all my games will run at the 3.0GHz I've set on the Game profile, CS:GO runs at 2.6GHz. Even though the CPU usage is through the roof (85~90%), it doesn't get past it.
Normally it would use 4GHz when up to 3 cores are in use, 3.7GHz when all 4 cores are in use. My Game profile is set to 3GHz for any given number of cores. And even if I change for the Normal profile, which would "unlock" the CPU its full potential, it doesn't get past 2.6GHz.

LimitReasons is blank when this happens. Other than the game somehow limiting the CPU usage or Windows detecting the game and capping the CPU, I'm out of ideas.
Any clues?

 

@GTMoraes - For testing purposes, for your normal profile, use an EPP setting of 0 for maximum performance. Turn on the ThrottleStop Log File option, go play a game and when finished playing, exit ThrottleStop so it can finish writing the log file data and then upload that log file somewhere convenient or attach it here directly. It will be in the ThrottleStop/Logs directory.

What are you using to judge your CPU speed? Are you relying on software that shows MHz on screen while gaming? I have seen some MHz on screen data, especially on the newer 6 cores CPUs, that does not look right. I have not done any hands on testing so I have tried to keep quiet about this issue. I fully trust the data in a TS log file so show me one of those so I can have a better look.

 

If you're getting such high CPU usage on CS... are you playing with uncapped framerates? Have you tried the set multiplier button under high performance windows profile?

And have you disabled BDProchot?

 

I'm using Win defender and didn't notice any issue like that. By default Core mem isolation is disabled.
@GreatD was the tester here, he simply disabled it after I said and the issue is fixed.

You should try this https://gist.github.com/Nt-gm79sp/1f8ea2c2869b988e88b4fbc183731693
No regedits necessary ad everything controllable through power options.

 

RTSS OSD with HWiNFO reporting the CPU speed as the 1st core. I'll try logging and see what pops up

Edit: here you go, logs!
https://hastebin.com/yupoguyimo.css

More logs, this time with "Add Limit Reasons to log file" ticked
https://hastebin.com/manohifoka.css

Here's the log of a similar game, Insurgency, which uses the same engine etc
https://hastebin.com/gilicudago.css

​

Naturally

Set Multiplier seems to do nothing when SST is on

Absolutely! It would be otherwise unplayable with dips to 2FPS every 10 seconds.
Funny thing to have a pretty good MX150 4GB, but unable to play any game because the laptop cripples itself.

 

That is correct. Set Multiplier is old school and does nothing when Speed Shift is enabled. You could try playing with the Min and Max Speed Shift multipliers in the TPL window but I think there is a bigger problem here.

Thanks for the numbers. Your CPU is definitely doing some throttling but I am not sure about the cause or how to solve it. Here is some interesting data from your manohifoka file.



At 10:46:59 and for approximately 8 seconds, the CPU is allowed to run at full speed with a solid 37.00 multiplier. During any game, without any throttling, this is how this CPU should run. Unfortunately most laptops use a variety of throttling schemes to prevent this from happening.

During this time period, some negative numbers show up in the BAT_mW column. This typically signifies that the battery is being drained. When unlocked with the CPU running at the 35 Watt level, it is possible that your power adapter is not capable of fully powering your laptop so it taps into the battery to help out. After a few seconds of this, something is triggered and power consumption drops back down to the 15 Watt long term TDP range.

If the CPU and MMIO power limit registers are both locked to 35 or 40 Watts and nothing is showing in Limit Reasons, some other method is being used to throttle your CPU to approximately 15 Watts. Do you have the Intel Dynamic Platform and Thermal Framework (DPTF) driver installed? It might be something more sinister like the EC or PECI at work.

Can the CPU spend more time using the 37 multiplier during a TS Bench when the Nvidia GPU is not being used?

 

I've absolutely no idea. I didn't install any third-party drivers, though. If it was installed, it got installed on WU

It sure can. if I limit the TDP to something arbitrarily high, such as 50W TDP on XTU, it keeps at 3.7GHz on TS Bench indefinitely. Currently, I've set it to limit to 28W, which corresponds to 3.3~3.4GHz

And IIRC, it also can hold this much when running RealBench, which pushes both CPU and GPU equally. It gets significantly hotter, though
Btw HWiNFO also does record that negative 272W drain.

I've noticed that the alarm I've set on HWiNFO for changing for Game profile wasn't working, so I was running on the Normal profile, instead of the Game profile. Normal profile uses the SST set to 128, and can freely choose the multiplier from what it's capable of (4GHz up to 3 cores, 3.7GHz 4 cores - contrasting with the Game profile, which I've set it to max out at 3GHz in any case). That's why it recorded 3.7GHz at some time.
It seems that when it's running on the Normal profile, it prefers 2.4~2.5GHz. And when it's on Game profile, it sticks at 3GHz. The only difference between the two, other than the multiplier limit, is the SST value, which used to be 84 for Game (now 0) and 128 for Normal.

I think that it might trigger some limit when it's running at 3.7GHz when gaming, while it doesn't trigger when at 3GHz. I'll do a couple of runs and post a few logs soon

 

You should not run XTU and TS alongside. Make sure XTu service in services.msc is stopped or disabled when TS is running.
Try running the script I linked to unhide power scheme settings for advanced users.
WUMT wrapper is a must these days to disable WU.

 

To save you sometime

If you disabled it.. then Win10 will let TS have full control over SST-EPP

 

Here are the logs I mentioned:

Normal profile: SST set to 128. CPU can use up to Multiplier 40 (Multiplier 37 hard limit for 4 cores)
Game profile: SST set to 0. CPU can use up to Multiplier 30 (all cases)

All: PL1 is set to 28W after one minute unleashed.

Normal profile, TS Bench:
https://hastebin.com/diwanolelu.css
-----
Normal Profile, RealBench:
https://hastebin.com/pageqizoxo.css
(I see some PL2 limits, which seems to be around 40W)
-----
Normal Profile, CS:GO
https://hastebin.com/ixesufoloc.css
(It throttles to 2.4~2.5GHz, no obvious reason)
-----
Game Profile, CS:GO
https://hastebin.com/sorinexado.css
(Solid Multiplier 30)

 

@GTMoraes - In the ThrottleStop TPL window, does it show any value for Power Limit 3? There seems to be some other limit interfering with maximum performance. HWiNFO shows more of the possible throttle limits compared to ThrottleStop. Perhaps HWiNFO knows something.

One thing to remember about HWiNFO is it clears the throttle data from the CPU as it is collecting data. That's why Limit Reasons does not work correctly if you are also using HWiNFO at the same time.

The log with the 30 multi is very consistent. That log also shows a lot more battery discharge activity. That must be a sign of an under powered power adapter. How many watts is it rated at? Are there any other power adapter options for your laptop?

If you could run the 37 multi full time, it might not improve game play any meaningful amount. I just like seeing the full multi, all the time.

 

Thanks for these, the settings are pretty much identical to what I have mine set to. I've manually downgraded the BIOS (including EC - by flashing to an old BIOS and then 'upgrading' to the same version with the official software, forcing an EC flash) to the earliest revision possible without hardware flashing (2.10) - previous revisions aren't signed/encrypted so I can't flash them with regular tools. This now has me at microcode 0x18 and.. PowerCut still doesn't work! It activates, locks the VCCIN, but continues to report power. I'm not sure why this is.. perhaps @unclewebb could shed some light on it? I've also renamed mcupdate_GenuineIntel.dll in System32 to prevent Windows from updating the microcode in-flight so I'm fairly certain I'm at 0x18. My next step now is BIOS decryption and flashing, perhaps hardware flashing (I've already built the tools and successfully read out my flash before I began the downgrades), to remove the microcode entirely.

EDIT: Looked at the readmes for the two available previous BIOSes, they're T440s-only, T440 support was added in 2.10, so this is the earliest I can go. However, loading the flash with MC Extractor, 2.10 should have microcode 0x16.. yet 0x18 is present post-boot?! Perhaps Windows is updating it in-flight even without the DLL?

EDIT2: A hard-off and on later, I'm at 0x16 in Windows. @cktducky I noticed yours is 0x1C so this should no longer present an issue. I also noticed your VCCIN is 1.500; for me, PowerCut will not activate above exactly 1.7344V, but will happily activate below, including 1.500. However, wattage is still reported.

 

You might be surprised! Some games will definitely not use max utilization percentages (especially when on a hyperthreaded CPU) but will use say... up to x%. Battlefield 4 was one of those games, where it'd use up to 50% of your CPU in windowed mode in the early game, and 70% of your CPU in fullscreen mode, on any i7 out there. You would look at it and figure "well it's not at a CPU bottleneck!" but you overclock the CPU and suddenly it performs better.

 

That sounds great! BTW, the time used in LinX is lower than mine, it is about 41 seconds. Maybe the version is different, I am using v0.7.0 or the memory of you computer is faster than mine, my laptop is using DDR3 RAM only.

About the true cost of U CPU laptop, I also think that question before. I would think the U CPU is original designed for ultra thin notebook that it needs to be thin and light-weight as possible. Thus, the thermal solution also needs to be thin and light-weight as well but not how the efficiency of the thermal solution is. It is designed for doing the light work, such as office suite, or sometimes to do some heavy work for just a while. Thus, if the efficiency of the thermal solution is necessary to be taken into account, the weight will be heavier that it is not the original definition and purpose of the U CPU.

 

I thought about HWiNFO, but for some reason I haven't tried checking its limits. I had disabled limits monitoring on HWiNFO because you've said it interferes with TS. Maybe there's other limit indeed. I haven't seen it on HWiNFO, but I'll when I come back home

Edit: Here's the limit reasons on HWiNFO
https://i.imgur.com/9Y7I3mn.png

the TPL window says the PL3 is locked and disabled, and is grayed out

AFAIK no. There are a couple of versions with different processors, but even the model without discrete GPU also uses the same charger, which is a 65W unit.
Maybe it's underpowered indeed, as it wasn't supposed to run with the CPU beyond 15w anyway

Nah, I didn't want it to run with the multi at 37, because it wouldn't thermally handle 3.7ghz when gaming anyway. I just found curious that it would run at a much lower frequency (2.4GHz) when it could freely pick a frequency, but would run consistently at 3.0GHz when I've limited it to that. Doesn't make much sense to me

If I'm gaming and use a keybind to switch profiles, it drops to 2.4 when I set it to normal and jumps to 3.0 when I set it to Game. Too weird

If you see the logs, even when running an extremely stressing task, RealBench, which seemingly uses both Intel and nVidia GPU for OpenCL, it doesn't run at a frequency so low (around 2.7~2.8), and only because it hits the known 28W limit, not some ghost limit...

 

Hey guys is it possible to link the profiles to the macro keys (Alienware keyboard)to switch them on the fly?

 

Are the Macro keys actual keys, as in, the system does recognize it as a keypress, or do they only execute a certain command or keypress?

You can use keybinds to change profiles. You can use your macro keys for that, and if they aren't recognized, just pick some uncommon combination (e.g. ctrl alt numpad 7) then set it to one of your macro keys.

 

they actual are keys



Can you tell me how to use the commands / at least where to find them?

 

Oh no, I mean, does the system recognize it as a keypress (e.g. when you press the Print Screen key, the system receives the keypress of the PrntScr key), or is it software controlled?

The keybinds/hotkeys are under Options > Hotkeys. Type the desired key in the white box and then mark the desired key combination. "NUMPAD" means that the key is in numpad (e.g. Hotkey 3 and NUMPAD checked, means the key needed to press is NumPad 3)

 

Thank you very much. I will try it when iam back at home. Would be nice to switch between the profiles with the macro keys (3.5ghz, 4ghz, 4.5ghz and 4.7ghz)

 

@unclewebb

Hi there,

I'm a big fan of your product, and have been using Throttlestop for several years. I recently brought a surface book 2 15" with 8650U processor. But under cpu stress test, the cpu stable at 2.4ghz on 4 cores, and no matter what I do, I can not let the tdp goes above 15W. The temp is about 65C, so there is a definitely power limit here.

How can I use Throttlestop to unlock the tdp limit? Maybe from 15w to 25w? I already set multipiler but nothing works.

So please let me know if you have any solutions on this.

Thank you
Perry

 

In this particular case, you can increase your TDP limit with Intel XTU

 

Yeah, that idea did cross my mind once. But I still haven't figured out how to automatically start XTU with windows startup.

So there is nothing we can do in Throttlestop? I love that software so much, and thought it can do everything......

 

For me, the TDP setting stuck without XTU auto-starting, as long as the service was still running.

The TDP would be reset if the system crashed, though. So if the system crashes for any reason, you'd need to reapply the TDP setting

 

Really? The system will remember the TDP setting even without start XTU? What about undervoltage settings?

 

Probably, but I only use XTU for the TDP tweak. Everything else I handle with TS

 

I always thought those TDP and Voltage settings I have to start the software to enable it. But maybe I was wrong. Will give it a try tonight.
Thanks for your help.