The ThrottleStop Guide

Do you have XTU installed? If yes, uninstall XTU and do some more testing. Usually the bios is smart enough to reset the voltage register but maybe on your laptop it is not that smart.

ThrottleStop scaling is about as good as it is going to get. Microsoft Foundation Classes (MFC) dates back to sometime in the mid-1990s. The Windows 95 era or even before that. A lot has changed since then. It looks like Win 10 has added on some DPI hacks to try to make things look pretty. When you run TS at a new resolution, if you exit ThrottleStop and restart it, it will also try to readjust to the new resolution. The hack code I created is probably interfering with Windows new DPI ideas.

 

On my 6300HQ and 7700HQ laptops, Dell locked out MMIO. So I have two options:

1. Use Intel XTU (but that is buggy on these laptops so need to manually reset the parameters frequently, sometimes every week. Also no SpeedShift EPP control. Conflicts a bit with ThrottleStop).

---OR---

2a. Use ThrottleStop for short/long watts/time.

2b. Then use RW Everything to set corresponding locations at FED15900; this additional step is not required in all laptops but it is for the Dell XPS 9550 & 9560 with above CPUs. I do this manually only when running intensive programs. It takes 30 seconds. Awesome trick. More infor is posted here if you are interested but this enough to get you started.

Also note if you insert stupid values (e.g. 100 Watts, the system might just ignore you). And you should mind thermals as this trick can heat things up dangerously. . .

 

Hello,

is there a way to force and cap a CPU at a specific value? I tried every setting but none seem to work, multiplier set to 9 or 10 does nothing. I want to cap my CPU to 900Mhz for low work so the fans wont turn on. I dont want it to clock higher than 900Mhz, but I somehow cant find a setting via ThrottleStop which makes it work. The CPU is totally fast enough with 900Mhz but the stupid control of it clocks it all the time up to values which wont be needed but generate more package power. This is also true for watching a movie. 900Mhz would totally work fine, but it randomly clocks up to 1100, or 1300 or 1800 randomly.

 

Hi maffle, please give us more information about your computer such as CPU model?

 

Try changing Speedshift (on first page) to 255. While this won't get you all the way down to 900 mhz, it is likely to get you low enough to keep the fans off. Of course, a high video load may turn on that fan - throttlestop only controls the CPU, not GPU.
Let us know what happens.
Joe

 

Another thing you can do is to manually force speedshift min and maximum multiplier to the same value. This works even with SST=0. Setting min and max to 8, for example, will cap your CPU at 800 mhz. This can't be done via saved profiles, however.

 

The CPU is a i7-8750H. Task Manager shows a load of 1% but it jumps all the time around between 1.25 1.33 1.44 1.59. I think this is some sort of bug in Windows 10. I noticed this actually before some months ago on another laptop, that it never goes down again to 900Mhz, even with a load of 0-1%. After a reboot it works a while again but then it stops working again randomly. I also notice, that watching a simple 720p video on the 8750H causes a package power of 3-4W where on an older tablet Broadwell-y CPU I can easily watch 1080p video with a load of 1-2W and 900Mhz.
I tried speedshift min=10 max=10 (it was on 1 41) but that doesnt seem to work. It is just ignored and does nothing. Well... kinda. It seems to use the value, but at the moment the load goes over some sort of trigger point of 2% CPU usage, it is ignored again it seems.

I cant find a page where I can change the Speed Shift value from 128 to 255 btw, what does that do?

I tried to change package power limits to 3 3 and lock, but I cant change it back anymore, its grayed out, how does that come? There is no reset button. The values seem to be saved in the registry now and I dont know what the default ones were...

 

Because you said your CPU clock speed jumps around in Task Manager and it never reaches 0.8GHz, I'll assume you have Speedshift enabled, or your manufacturer has done it for you. This is completely normal, because in Speedshift CPU clocks change far more rapidly and aggressively than clocks controlled by the OS. Task manager averages everything out.

1. This checkmark sets the speed shift EPP (Energy Preference Profile) 0 is max performance. 255 is lowest power (generally locks the CPU down in around 0.8-1.1GHz) 128 is balanced.

2. The thing that configures speedshift is located in the TPL window, as shown below the throttlestop window.

3 and 4. Clocks are different in Task Manager and Throttlestop. Likely both are wrong. Under normal idling conditions, much of the CPU is in 0MHz to save power. Again, they rapidly turn on and off.

5. Sets the speedshift configuration. min sets the minimum multiplier. Your bus speed should be 100MHz, so set your multiplier accordingly. To force it under or at 900MHz, set the max value to 9. Ensure that the speedshift box is checked for both windows.

6. The 'correct' way to check CPU utilization is to check the C0%.

Remember now that with modern hardware, clock speeds don't matter because they fluctuate so wildly and quickly.

And that is why I am not willing to buy HQ, HK, H, or any CPU other than an ULV processor for the worktasks I need. I'm a student so I need all day battery life (U or Y CPU) but I also want high performance when I need it. 8th gen U CPUs are perfect because you can turn it into a 7700HQ just by increasing the power limit. The 8750H is a high end CPU where energy saving is not a priority. The Y CPU has a TDP of >6W and was designed to save power. It's not a fair comparison.

 

I agree. The MHz a modern CPU is running at when partly loaded is debatable. CPU cores and threads are constantly and very rapidly entering and exiting various C States.

When the 1st Gen Core i was introduced, Intel recommended sampling each thread and simply reporting the highest multiplier. I tried this method but it seemed flawed. On some CPUs, the highest reported multiplier was sometimes reported from threads that were idle 99% of the time so that did not seem like a good indication of CPU speed.

I thought about getting all technical and creating some sort of overly complex weighted average of each thread but that seemed like too many wasted CPU cycles for little gain in clarity. Keep 'er simple has always been the ThrottleStop motto so the method I dreamed up for ThrottleStop was to also look at the C0% for each thread. In my opinion, the multiplier that the most active thread is using seemed to be a more consistent and better indication of true CPU speed.



No method is perfect but on most Core i CPUs, in most situations, I will take ThrottleStop multiplier data over CPUZ, HWiNFO or Task Manager data any day of the week.

Edit - Here is an interesting video that shows the differences between some popular monitoring apps. TS is based on the RealTemp monitoring code.

 

A suggestion: ThrottleStop should maybe create a backup file when first started, and save all default settings of the CPU into it, and give easy reset mechanics through it. I actually changed the power package limits, and now I dont remember anymore, what they were at. I thought you could easily reset them, but you cant it seems. Are they stored in Windows registry? Does anyone maybe know the default values for a i7-8750H? I think they were 52 73 or something like that. There was also some sort of bug in TS, where I couldn't change them anymore and I had to reboot the laptop.

Then the SST value input field is really confusing. It doesnt look like an input field at all, it looks just like an information text, not something you can change. You should change that design by adding a different background and border for the input field.

I tried actually 0, 128 (default) and 255, and non seem to do anything at all. Setting a SST cap value of 10 10 does also nothing. The moment the CPU has a tiny little load, it is ignored it seems.

There should be some sort of energy saving mode, where all speed steps are disabled and the CPU just enters a capped value, for example, 900Mhz and doesnt boost over it. Isnt that possible? I know actually, you could do that on older versions of Windows, choosing energy saving profile. But this profile doesnt exist anymore since forever, and most systems have the balance one.

I also dont really see, why the CPU is boosting all the time for tiny little workloads, where it wouldnt have to. Lets say you just want browse or watch a movie... it could totally do that with 1W. But it randomly boosts over it between 3-6W and then the fans randomly are triggered.

The laptop is a Dell XPS 15 9570 btw.

 

Simple way to go back to defaults is to delete Throttlestop.ini and reboot.

Speedshift at 255 should significantly limit clocks - try running TS bench with Speedshift at both settings and you will see. If it dosen't make any difference, then you probably have something turned off. As Unclewebb has noted, lower CPU speed does not always equate to energy savings. Sometimes it is more energy efficient for a core to kick up to accomplish a task and go back to resting state. That is why you can see clocks kicking up to 25-30 even when energy consumption is only 2-3 W.
A useful way to reduce power consumption is to use task manager when machine is "at rest" to see what Windows is running in the background. You may find some surprises there.

Best,

joe

 

Just wanted to post here the difference in repasting.
First, a test I ran a couple of days ago, using the stock paste that came with my IdeaPad 320


------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, same system but with Gelid GC Extreme



I don't even think I properly pasted it (I used the mustard-drop method, but I think that if I had spread it it would be even better), but this is significant

Btw, the "other die" on the CPU didn't have thermal paste. It even had a cut-off on the heatsink that fits it. It's like they didn't want to put the heatsink on it.

It's the small one under the long one

What is that "other die"? Intel GPU?

 

It should be the chipset part. CPU & GPU is on the same die in the rectangular one. Since the chipset is not really hot and the height of that 2 dies is not exact the same, in order to avoid the possible bad surface contact due to the height difference, the manufactures design the heatsink which does not touch the part of the chipset die.

 

That looks like a really really good heatsink fit. All 8 cores (Well, four) within 1 degree of each other. I can't even get that with my liquid metal application (obviously I did a poor job of it) We'll have to see if the thermal paste degrades over time.

Once upon a time I had an Aspire E5-571PG. It had an i5-4210U with a GeForce 840M dedicated GPU all cooled by ONE shared heatpipe. Shockingly, even under MX-4 (really bad choice for laptops) 6 months later it SUSTAINS temperatures below 75C when both were loaded under a AIDA64 stress test. Unbelievable. I loved that laptop. It had touchscreen, and a whisper-quiet fan that was pleasant to listen to when it was audible.

My Xiaomi sustains temps under 75C only with liquid metal. I think there is not enough airflow because it has the same disgusting design as the MacBook hinges, which literally block half the airflow. Temperatures drop to 70C when I lift the bottom from the table. At least there is a huge intake at the bottom.



Yet my newer Aspire VN7-572G has the 6200U and GeForce 945M (similar thermal specifications) is also cooled by one shared heatpipe and reaches temperatures of 99C within 5 minutes.

 

https://ark.intel.com/products/134906/Intel-Core-i7-8750H-Processor-9M-Cache-up-to-4_10-GHz

The Intel specs show a default TDP of 45 Watts for the 8750H and Intel used to recommend this for default settings:

Long Term Turbo = TDP = 45 Watts
Short Term Turbo = Long Term Turbo + 25% = 56.25 Watts

Guess what? I have not seen any 8750H systems using these default specs. Different manufacturers are setting these 2 limits all over the place. Many users make changes in their bios or use Intel XTU before using ThrottleStop. Default specs are a mystery. It is best if individual users take responsibility for their laptop's default specs.

To find out what default specs your laptop is using, exit and remove Intel XTU, delete the ThrottleStop.INI config file, completely shutdown Windows (no hybrid shutdown), restart your computer, start ThrottleStop and it will read the default specs your CPU is using. Post some pictures of ThrottleStop so other XPS 15 9570 owners will have something to compare to.

How about post some pictures of ThrottleStop that shows the problems that you are having? Show the TPL - Misc section so I can see what Speed Shift settings you are using, show the main screen so I can see the EPP requested value and show the monitoring panel in the top right corner of the FIVR window so I can see the EPP value your CPU is currently using. When Speed Shift is enabled and I change the EPP value between 0, 128 and 255; my desktop computer shows drastic differences in CPU performance. Most other users here are seeing the same thing. Speed Shift also gives me the ability to lock my CPU to virtually any speed.

It is possible that this ThrottleStop feature may no longer work 100% correctly on some newer laptops that have Speed Shift enabled in the bios. What Windows 10 wants might be taking precedence over what ThrottleStop wants. If there is a problem, post some pics so I can see what needs to be tweaked.

Sure in the good old days you could use Windows and tie a CPU to a tree at 800 MHz or 900 MHz but why would you want to? That might have been a good thing to do before the low power core and package C States existed but 2008 was a long time ago.

Intel disagrees. They believe that maximum efficiency is achieved when the CPU can instantly burst to maximum speed, quickly compute what ever needs to be computed and then for individual cores to instantly get back into a deep low power C State like C7 where power consumption approaches zero. When all the cores have nothing to do, then the entire CPU package should also drop down into the lowest possible package C State. This is how all Core i CPUs have worked for the last 10 years. The old school Windows power plans were intended to save power but on modern hardware, the Balanced profile, etc. made for a sluggish computing experience without saving much if any power at all. That is why Intel introduced Speed Shift. It is a far better and more efficient way to manage CPU speed vs power consumption. Microsoft seems to agree. That is why they have added Speed Shift to Windows 10 as long as both the hardware and bios supports it.

Here is my favorite paper that questions the slow CPU method of computing.
https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~krioukov/realityCheck.pdf

Does ThrottleStop show your idle CPU cores spending 99% of the time in Core C7? Intel says the 8750H supports package C8. Is your laptop using package C8 or did Dell once again decide to disable the deeper package power saving C States? This is how to save power. 900 MHz is not the answer.

I agree. Speed Shift control was one of those features I added to ThrottleStop before I had any Speed Shift enabled hardware for testing purposes. I squeezed in this feature as best I could. Improving the clarity of this feature is on the long term things to do list.

As for your XPS 15, if it is constantly kicking in the fans when CPU usage is low, the engineers at Dell need a good kick. My older Lenovo laptop has a 45 Watt CPU and it constantly runs at maximum speed (3500+ MHz) even when lightly loaded. It runs extremely cool and the fans are virtually silent. Good design vs poor design. Your money, your choice. The XPS 15 9570 looks beautiful but a noisy laptop would drive me nuts.

 

ahahha I have the same lousy heatsink that blows hot air to the bottom of the display, just like yours. Lenovo seems to loves to use these, as all modern Lenovos I've seen work like that.



In the last test, I've ran it lying naturally on the table, but normally I use it on top of an angled cooling pad, which helps a lot.

The CPU temps are great now, but the GPU temps increased in-game, but I guess that's due to the fact that the CPU heat is going to the GPU (as they share the same heatpipe). After prolonged gaming sessions, they both share a 78~80°C temp now, where the CPU used to linger around 85 and the GPU at 68 before repasting

 

With latest Windoze 10, it seems Micro$haft has hidden the SpeedShift EPP settings.

EPP can be changed easily in ThrottleStop. But is there a way to change EPP in Windoze anymore? Or have the new power option schemes taken that away from normal users?

 

I though SpeedShift was not OS controllable. What you could control was SpeedStep. Makes sense removing it, since it doesn't work if SpeedShift is enabled and in control.
Anyhoo, it might be enable-able through registry

 

I am pretty sure that the latest versions of Windows 10 will automatically use Speed Shift to control the CPU speed if it is enabled in the bios. This allows Windows to take over immediately. Once you boot up, if Speed Shift is already enabled, there is no way to disable it. If the bios does not let you disable Speed Shift then users will lose control of their CPU.

On my desktop computer with the latest Windows 10 - Version 1803, there is no option in the bios for Speed Shift and it is disabled after booting up. In this case, Windows 10 works like it has always worked with the traditional High Performance and Balanced profiles. This allows me to use ThrottleStop to enable and control Speed Shift without TS having to battle against Windows for control. If a user has an option to disable Speed Shift in the bios, I would use that and then I would use ThrottleStop to enable Speed Shift for full control.

 

got it figured out, great program and post. thank you

 

@pressing Did you try these registry settings? Working for me as of W10 1803.

Code:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\8baa4a8a-14c6-4451-8e8b-14bdbd197537]
"Attributes"=dword:00000002

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\36687f9e-e3a5-4dbf-b1dc-15eb381c6863]
"Attributes"=dword:00000002

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\cfeda3d0-7697-4566-a922-a9086cd49dfa]
"Attributes"=dword:00000002

 

Hey guys/gals. Noob here. Don’t worry in advance I take seriously the importance of searching before asking and then trying to be as specific as I can with my question.

Currently using Throttlestop 8.6. Have it configured to under volt my core and cache by -149mv on bootup. While learning to use some GPU over clocking tools, Throttlestop stopped working. Specifically, I would get the dreaded WinRing0.dll could not start message. I tried messing around with Windows Defender, updating the latest Windows security patches. Nothing worked. Tried changing folders and directories. Nothing happened. Was all but ready to give up on Throttlestop for XTU.

Couple of days ago, I installed both the latest Nvidia driver and EVGA Precision Overclock. After realizing I was better off using MSI AB, I tried uninstalling EVGA via the Windows 10 app removal located in Settings. After rebooting, I found that Throttlestop via the task scheduler would not start due to the WinRing0.dll message. I deleted the scheduler and repeatedly deleted and reinstalled Throttlestop.

In searching this thread, UncleWebb made a comment that app Uninstallation can sometimes leave fragments that share common resources/drivers. I was thinking about nuking my laptop and starting fresh when I thought I’d try reinstalling EVGA OC. After installation, Throttlestop started working again. But, when I try deleting EVGA again, it takes Throttlestop back again and leaves me with that WinRing0.dll message.

Anyone run into this type of situation before and can help point me in the right direction?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

Having a lot of problems with my Dell Precision P5520 when docked to a TB16 USB-C/TB docking station, driving three 24" screens. After a while it will drop down to 800MHz with a PL1 throttle. Temps are not that bad (~50C with re-pasted CPU) but I can't figure out which settings would stop this from happening (I'm guessing somewhere in the Turbo Power Limits screen?). Would be extremely grateful for a hint.

 

Is your display lid closed when you dock it? I had similar issues with my old IdeaPad y500 that would turn everything to the lowest when the lid was closed

 

Yeah, the lid is closed, though I don't have the same problem when I'm at a customer site where I just connect a 30"-monitor directly to the HDMI-port and run with the lid closed. I think it's something with some power-level limitation at ~15W that happens after a while if it's been turboing for a bit. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

I would check to be sure it thinks it is running on AC in the dock, i.e., "plugged in, charging" A lot of machines will revert to a low speed, power conserving mode when on battery. I had that happen when AC plug to my adapter was loose and not connecting.
Good luck,

Joe

 

I have Acer Helios 300 (PH317-51, i7700HQ). I'm trying to make undervolting, but ThrottleStop doesn't show CPU MHz. Who knows how I can fix it?

 

What does this mean? Windows Defender is known to prevent the WinRing0 driver from working so if you are having problems and you like ThrottleStop, I would recommend finding another antivirus program. I use the free version of Avast and I never have any WinRing0 issues. I found Windows Defender to be hit or miss. Some days it would allow ThrottleStop to run and other days it would put ThrottleStop on some sort of bad list and would prevent it from running after that. I do not have any fix for this.

Can you leave EVGA Precision Overclock installed. You could try using Autoruns to disable Precision Overclock from running or maybe use Autoruns to track down the WinRing0 entry. Delete this entry, reboot and then try running ThrottleStop again.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/autoruns

The PL1 power limit can be set in multiple places and the CPU will then use the lowest value it finds. I do not think ThrottleStop is going to be able to solve this problem for you. Try using Intel XTU.

Before giving up on ThrottleStop, try setting Speed Shift - EPP to 0, set both of the Turbo Time Limits to 28 and set the TDP Level Control to 0 instead of 1. When none of this works, call Dell and tell them to come and get this sorry excuse for a laptop. 800 MHz in 2018 is a joke.

I have seen this problem on a few different laptops but I have no idea why this happens. What antivirus program are you using and does your antivirus program have any sort of sandbox feature? ThrottleStop is reporting 0 MHz because either it is being blocked from using a timer within your CPU or the timer that ThrottleStop is trying to read is not functional. I have seen plenty of screenshots with ThrottleStop working correctly on the 7700HQ and it works correctly on my 7th Gen desktop CPU so I have no idea why you are having problems. The last couple of people that reported this never followed up with any more details. When you click on the BCLK button multiple times, does it always show 0 MHz?

You should still be able to use TS for under volting. Just assume that your BCLK is 100 MHz. When TS shows a multiplier of 19.83, multiply that by 100 and you get a CPU speed of approximately 1983 MHz.

Edit - You could try changing the timer that Windows uses? Open up a command window and type in this.

bcdedit /set useplatformclock true

Reboot your system and see if this makes any difference. If you are still having problems open up a command window again and type in the following to go back to your original timer.

bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock

You will need to reboot again to go back to the original Windows timer.

 

I do not use any antivirus programs except Microsoft Windows Defender. Other programs, like CPU-Z, shows processor speed correctly.
After clicking BCLK a few times

 

Seen people with same problem with showing 0 MHz in XTU monitoring. Maybe @skrobot should check with XTU as well.

 

@skrobot - Thanks for the feedback. I will look into this problem further but without access to hardware that has this problem, it might be a while before I find out what is causing this bug. I only have a handful of computers for testing purposes and none of them have this problem. There are also hundreds of thousands of regular TS users that have never had this bug.

Can you think of any other monitoring software besides CPU-Z that you are using while running ThrottleStop? Maybe AIDA64? The problem with Intel CPUs is that many of the system timers that monitoring software uses are shared resources. That means any software running on your computer can change or reset these timers which will prevent ThrottleStop from accurately monitoring your CPU speed. I do not spend too much time working on ThrottleStop during the summer. If I can think of anything, I will send an updated version your way for testing.

As for your TS settings in your screenshot; when Speed Shift is enabled ( SST), Set Multiplier does not work, Power Saver does not work and SpeedStep does not work so there is no need to check any of them. I would also not check BD PROCHOT but that is just me. I hate any option that can cause unnecessary throttling.

 

Why aren't they greyed out when SST is on?

 

Guys, thanks for your feedback too. This is not a problem for me. ThrottleStop is working and the CPU temperature has decreased. For the sake of interest, I took screenshots in AIDA64 and XTU

Spoiler

 

Good question. When I first added the ability to enable and adjust Speed Shift EPP, I was not 100% sure if SpeedStep was still needed or not so I left SpeedStep and those other features that depend on SpeedStep accessible. I think when I first added Speed Shift, I didn't own or have access to a CPU that supported Speed Shift. In situations like that, I tend to leave things unlocked just in case on some CPU somewhere a feature is still needed.

If I disable it now, there will immediately be complaints that SpeedStep, Set Multiplier and Power Saver used to work and now they don't. It is sometimes less hassle to just leave things alone.

When you exit AIDA64 and restart ThrottleStop, does ThrottleStop MHz reporting start working properly for you? A long time ago, AIDA64 would cause problems for other monitoring programs because it was constantly resetting various system timers. The majority of monitoring software does not do this. If these timers are allowed to run indefinitely, any monitoring software can access these timers and get excellent data from them.

 

@unclewebb I was opening and exit AIDA64, was launching both with ThrottleStop - got the same result

 

Hey @unclewebb can I get a direct response from you as the author of throttlestop?

Is it not true that if your CPU is not turboing, intel's own CPUs report to the OS via their MSR registers (which as you said in the past they don't really want people knowing how to read, which is why TS isn't open source) that they are in fact throttling? And that intel CPUs are designed to run at their max turbo based on per-core load and base clock is pretty much pointless in general?

Because someone keeps trying to tell me otherwise and that I have no proof (despite me pointing to both XTU and Throttlestop showing that the CPU says itself that it's being throttled if it is)?

 

@D2 Ultima - For the last 10 years, all Core i CPUs are designed to use as much turbo boost as possible, all the time. Here is an example:



The default multiplier for a 4700MQ is 24. When overclocked, it will use the 36 multiplier when a single core is active, the 35 multiplier when 2 cores are active and it will use the 34 multiplier when more than 2 cores are active. The screenshot shows that even when idle, this CPU is using as much turbo boost as possible. That is how it should be.

If you switch to the Windows Balanced or Power Saver power profile, then the multiplier will drop and the CPU speed will sag down to 800 MHz. That technically is not considered throttling. You will not see anything light up in Limit Reasons as throttling but the CPU is running well below its rated speed.



In Windows Power Saver mode, Windows tells the CPU to use the lowest possible 8 multiplier. It does this by writing this value to MSR 0x199. On newer CPUs that have Speed Shift enabled, this MSR value will be ignored by the CPU. Instead, the CPU will use the value in the EPP register to decide what speed it should be running at. An EPP value of 0 should be equivalent to the Windows High Performance profile. In this case, the CPU will run at maximum speed while using as much turbo boost as possible.

After 11,000+ posts on NBR, have you not learned yet that arguing with some people is pointless?
Hopefully there is enough info here so you can set these people straight.

 

I wasn't on NBR xD

Sometimes I gotta make the point Unclewebb! Thanks for the response

By the way...

Where can I get that purple throttlestop =O

 

PECI can still overrule anything in both MSR and MMIO, however. Nothing beats the all powerful Embedded Controller PECI.

 

That good looking purple TS is still a work in progress. IccMax adjustment is up and running but need to finish AVX Offset adjustment. It is getting close to release but I spend too much time in the forums.

 

We love you, Unclewebb!
Please spend more time here.
You can release TS whenever you want. It's your baby.
We need more true hardware enthusiasts showing their love and passion and enjoying it.

Take your time.
Might even be another donation headed your way. We need to get together and get you a 6 core Coffee Lake LGA system somehow!

 

Ooo real-time AVX offset adjustment and better IccMax adjustment?

SIGN ME UP UNCLEWEBB

*drools at purple*

 

After lurking for years and years (been using ThrottleStop for ages! starting from Dual-IDA with C2Ds on laptops way back), I decided to sign up and first of all thank unclewebb & all of you for developing & contributing to the development of this great tool, plus to top it off, taking the time to answer questions for everyone regardless of skill level as well!

I'm now trying to squeeze the most out of my i5-4200U. MCHBAR+5F50 is all 0s by default so I can lock it into TDP limit 2 (which is 25W on this CPU). I've set high limits in MCHBAR+59A0 & 59A4 (00DC8320 & 00DC83E8), allowing me to hold max turbo & ~20W TDP at 2.3GHz indefinitely (or at least much much longer than the default 28 seconds - I've yet to hit a limit in testing). The cooling system handles this just fine, with 25C to spare. If I undervolt slightly (about 70mV) I can still maintain stability and drop down to about 17W, even more headroom!

The issue lies with the HD 4400 GPU.

1. With CPU at idle, if I load up the GPU, TDP will hit about 18-20W. Idle CPU TDP seems to be around 3-4W so I'm assuming the GPU itself is hard-capping at 15W. After 28 seconds, the entire package will peg at 15W TDP until the load is stopped - the GPU will massively clock down with PL1 as the limit reason.

2. With CPU maxed, if I load up the GPU, TDP will peg at 25W. The GPU PL2 limit reason will flash red as 25W is repeatedly hit. After 20+ seconds, the PL2 limit reason will go yellow, GPU PL1 will go solid red, and TDP will peg at 15W. CPU frequency stays locked at 2.3GHz, but C0% as indicated in ThrottleStop is all over the place - certainly not at 100% across the board. The GPU will also massively slow down.

I'm assuming there's no real way to exceed the TDP level 2 limit of 25W and I'm OK with that (for now!); my question is, what causes the fallback into PL1 of 15W when the GPU is taxed? Is there something I can try to further investigate it (or, better yet, bypass it)?

EDIT: I've overvolted the CPU during a prime95 run trying to exceed the 25W TDP; by feeding it about 145mV over stock, I got it to about 26W purely on CPU & 93C on temps. It happily stayed at this level for the 3-4 minutes I let it run (for temps to somewhat stabilize). GPU went solid red on PL1 and PL2. CPU didn't even have PL2, only PL1, and solid yellow throughout.

EDIT2: I've done some more reading (going back about 100 pages) & understood how PowerCut's supposed to be enabled. Unfortunately it seems it has no effect on my CPU as the power is still reported.. I wonder if this is a result of running the latest microcode (24). I will attempt a downgrade and see - will take a bit of research as Lenovo disallows downgrades from the latest BIOS (this is a T440). Reflashing the SPI chip is not an issue but I have no idea of the structure of it. The EC is also reflashed in a BIOS upgrade, I'm not sure if a reflash to an older version would perform that step. Going to an older microcode also opens it back up to Meltdown (for whatever that's worth, now we have TLBleed...). Finding out where & why the GPU throttles might be a better path.

@cktducky I noticed you got yours working on the same CPU as per http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-738#post-10662584, what settings & microcode were you using?

 

That's a behaviour I noticed on my older Aspire V Nitro with the 6200U. The exact thing would happen - the CPU could use 25W if it wanted to indefinitely, but the instant the iGPU was loaded it would lock down to 15W. (Or was it 18.6W?) Not sure if that will happen with my 8250U. Power limits are scattered everywhere in the computer. Take a look at HWInfo limit reasons while doing the test.

Are you running your laptop without its battery?

 

Well would you look at that. Me being lucky (Never happens). I'm able to undervolt my UHD620 (basically an overclocked 620 used three generations) by -200mV

According to both ThrottleStop and HW-Info, the undervolt can be verified at the same clock. GPU-Z further confirms this by showing a 7.5W power draw whilst undervolted, a reduction of +35% from 12.5W. Incredible.

Check if you are able to undervolt your GPU. On some systems, the undervolt is ignored. On others, like mine, the System Agent undervolt also has to be undervolted the same amount.

EDIT: Oopsie, -200mV was not stable. Dialing back to -185mV lol.

I'm assuming you know about the power balance thing in TS TPL?

Psst: The 8250U, running at the default 15W with no undervolt on the Core or GPU: The CPU will lock down to 400MHz, using about 3W whilst the GPU runs at 1100MHz (Max) drawing 12W. Hilarious, and shows how hopeless the U CPUs are for combined CPU+GPU lol.

 

Thanks for the help (and thanks for a great program), I'll give it a shot (and maybe try XTU if necessary). Regarding Dell, yeah, I'm a bit disappointed that a $40k laptop/docking station combination is not working out of the box... (even if it is company money).

 

The slider allows it, but the wattage unfortunately doesn't seem to drop much if at all. It still throttles to the same 650MHz at load.

I'm running this off AC. I've placed the adapter on a wattmeter and, while pulling 25W with a combined GPU+CPU load & not charging the batteries, it pulls nearly 50W at the wall. It's a 90W adapter and the system correctly identifies it as such, I don't think it's running into power delivery issues on that end. The T440 has an integrated + an external battery and both are in good shape in my unit. I imagine that if Lenovo wasn't lazy, they're splitting high power draws between them to handle their C levels safely anyway.

Below are HWinfo screenshots; the first is before throttling to 15W package TDP, the second is after.

Spoiler: Screenshots!

 

Hey @unclewebb I've noticed something really weird with throttlestop today... I can't seem to change profile in throttlestop, close it, and have it re-open on the "saved" profile. I remember saying this was a way to avoid getting crashed in a bootloop before with a bad overclock, but as of now it seems if it exits on the unstable profile it will also re-load on the unstable profile.

Do you know why that might be? And if so, could the next release revert that to how it used to be? TS 8.50 seems to do it as well as 8.60, but I remember at least 8.41 working normally.

 

@D2 Ultima - I think you are right. I will check this out and put it on the things to do list.

 

Doing the work of champions Unclewebb T-T

Work of champions T-T