The ThrottleStop Guide

Jump to the beginning of this thread. All you need is right there.

 

What about the values?

Can someone explain the FIVR Control menu? and what recommended values for safe undervolting (without decreasing speed)

 

@Shnxxx

I have 7700HQ and this is pic of my FIVR. It is a stable undervolt.

 

I have 4500u and unlocked bios. How to increase my pl1 tdp? Custom configurable TDP setting doesn't help. Using xtu benchmark it always throttle at 15W after some time...
My bios options:
http://imgur.com/a/xk67qed

 

Not sure about Gigabyte but I think Asus has a SVID setting in the bios that has to be enabled. If this is not enabled, the voltage going to the CPU cannot be controlled with ThrottleStop.

The default Turbo Ratio Limits for a 7700HQ are 38, 36, 34, 34, I do not believe that setting these limits all to 38 accomplishes anything. The next version of TS will show what the CPU reports are the max turbo multipliers.

ThrottleStop does not have any features like that. To disable cores the CPU has to be rebooted. You could say that Intel CPUs automatically disable cores on the fly. If a core is not needed, it goes into the C7 state at 0 Volts and 0 MHz where it consumes next to nothing for power. When it is needed, it automatically jumps to life and starts working. Hard to improve upon this.

 

Oh I have SVID disabled.
I'll enable it later and see what happens. Thank you @unclewebb

 

@ unclewebb I've disabled " Custom configurable TDP", and now TS " TDP level control" doesn't work or works differently, I can't understand.
All I did was setting " Package Power Limit MSR Lock" to " disabled" and " Configurable TDP BOOTmode" to " up".
Before setting modded bios, I was able hold 2.4GHz, now only 2.0
And after that I'm not sure that this advanced options in bios can help me increase PL1 tdp or hold 2.7Ghz

 

An update on my Aspire E5-576G (i5-8250u, MX150): I've discovered a severe issue, and I have no idea how to fix it.

As I've established beforehand, the changes made to the TPLs do indeed work and I've used both XTU and Throttlestop. I've double-checked it with RWEverything as well just to ensure the values are correct.





On load, but not that intense, the TPLs are working as intended. I've tested this using the TS Bench 64M.
No throttling at all, and working at maximum frequency which I've set to 3.2GHz.




Same case as TS Bench 254M. But only near the start. After awhile, throttling finally occurs.




I confirmed this with Cinebench as well. It seems like the TPLs that I've set are ignored whenever the CPU is under intense load.
Particular to note during my Cinebench runs, and also during game sessions like Rainbow Six Siege, PL2 shows to be the reason for the initial throttling.
Again, it's as if the TPLs are being ignored. And worst, Package Power won't even go beyond 19W when under intense load and hard caps the frequency to 2.9GHz
Eventually, it would throttle hard to 15W, and will stay there until the task finishes.







It seems like on really intense loads like gaming sessions and Cinebench, the TPLs act as if the values I've set are being ignored. Otherwise, the TPLs are working fine as shown during the TS Bench 64M. I've also tried using the Disable and Lock Turbo Limits feature, as well as locking the TPL. It did not help at all. And for some odd reason, having HWMonitor hard caps the Package Power to 19W and the Frequency to 2.9GHz as if the CPU was under intense load.

Right now, I have no idea how to fix this. If anyone have an idea what's happening here, I would be glad for the help.

 

Thx for the info. I used to have the i7-6500U on the Aspire V Nitro VN7-572G-75AJ. I managed to change FED15900 and that allowed the CPU to run at full turbo 3.0GHz with iGPU running at full turbo. The CPU pacagke used 28W.

Your aspire must be similar to mine. (57x series) It seems that Acer tries to 'improve' on their devices with every design. Note that power limits can be set anywhere in the BIOS. The CPU will ALWAYS throttle to the single lowest value. Unfortunately, I don't know of any alternative method that may help you, other than getting an unlocked BIOS.

One thing that is EXTREMELY interesting: Why is your CPU voltage so low? only 0.59v @ 0.9GHz? My CPU idles at 0.73v @ 0.9GHz? And in yoru first screenshot your CPU is at 0.53xxV? I have never ever seen an eight generation CPU run at SUCH a low voltage.
View this post: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/why-does-the-8250u-require-such-a-high-voltage.815154/

Your load voltages seem to be similar to mine - if not still slightly lower. I have a -130mV undervolt here.

Also I note your Turbo ratio limit is set to 32 in yoru frist screenshot. IDK if that is intentional or if Acer set it. The 8250U can go up to 3.4GHz but you is currently being limited to 3.2GHz

 

The 8250U has a 15 Watt TDP. With some devices, you can use ThrottleStop or Intel XTU to get beyond this limit but that is not always possible. There is a third power limit (PECI) that ThrottleStop and Intel XTU do not have access to. It looks like this third power limit is being used by your Aspire and it is very likely that there is nothing you can do about it.

 

@unclewebb

Could you make little chenge into the Throttlestop option?? In the options we can set AC TIMER RES from 1 to 16 but in Windows 10 it is possible to set it to 0.5. Could you change that, so we can set it manual to 0.5 from Throttlestop??

Thanks

 

If you can already do this in Windows 10, why do you need to be able to do this in ThrotleStop too? Have you done any real world testing? Is there any advantage using 0.5 ms compared to 1.0 ms? Just curious. If you can show me why this feature is needed, I will consider adding this to ThrottleStop.

 

Use Task Scheduler service and create automated tasks who run it after TS have fired up.
https://vvvv.org/contribution/windows-system-timer-tool

Haven't see any benefits from it (better performance capability)- tested 3 systems. Maybe you could try it as well. On more than one system.

 

Thank you for the answer. That's a shame that I'm unable to fix my throttling. For the Turbo Ratio Limit, I've deliberately set that to 32 as I've found it somewhat helpful in delaying the CPU from throttling. For the link/thread you've sent though, that's interesting as well. Clearly the 8th-Generation U Series have some untapped potential.

That's really a shame. I've checked that the TDP Level Control is working properly (i.e. Base Multiplier would change accordingly, like TDP 0 - 16Ghz, or TDP 2 - 18GHz) as well as the TPLs but the TDP seems to be locked to the default which is 15W. That's really stupid. I'll do one last series of tests later to finally confirm that there is no hope

Much thanks to everyone for confirming my issue.

@unclewebb One last thing, what's the reason why HWMonitor, and some other programs I've discovered (MSI Afterburner, Rainbow Six Siege, The Witcher 3, etc.) seems to limit the Package Power to only 19W? As a result the CPU performs as if it was throttling to said 19W similar to being under intense load. I've checked this using the TS Bench 64M.

Without HWMonitor on, the bench would proceed to go as high as 25W without anything showing up on the Limit Reason. Otherwise, PL2 would light up red until the bench finishes with Package Power capping at 19W.

 

Same here. That is why I was hoping to see some test results. Just because the Timer Resolution can be set to 0.5ms does not mean that it is a good idea to do so.

I have heard other users mention stuff like this but I have no idea why this is happening. I would use the, "Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits" feature and I would avoid running every other monitoring app on the planet. TS is good enough for monitoring most of what is important.

You might not be able to fix the throttling problem you are having but lowering the max multi and a few other tricks can help you manage it so maybe you can avoid the CPU entering limp / gimp mode.

0xFED15F50 is where the TDP Level Control value is hiding in the memory mapped IO. Try adjusting that one if you need to. Bit[31] is the lock bit.

 

I agree adamantly with TS being good enough. It doesn't take anything at all to run in the background.

Pertaining to the 0xFED15F50 being the TDP Level Control. I'll try checking on that. Hopefully it would finally be my silver bullet against atrocious throttling schemes.

Much thanks, unclewebb.

 

So, I'm copying over my comment from the Dell Precision 7530 thread to here, in the event that it might help, or someone might notice an issue.

Quick update on some power issues... I noticed that using the trackpad makes power usage skyrocket. Secondly, there's a noticeable 6.6 W (median) power discrepancy between the power discharged from the battery, and the system power as reported by HWiNFO. It is highly coincidental that the Quadro P3200 also idles at ~ 7 W. During all this testing, the Quadro was not awakened (and reported 0 W power draw to HWiNFO); all background apps that could be killed were killed, and only HWiNFO was active.

Here is a quick analysis with data logged from HWiNFO; the large noticeable bumps are when a finger was touched on the trackpad, or a swipe action was done. I noticed no difference between swiping and touching or sliding across.

There are regular spikes in power draw every second or so, too.

Conclusion: it is possible, even probable, that the Quadro is indeed idling and drawing power, and this is unnoticed by and unreported to the system, even in Optimus mode. Another conclusion: the Dell touchpad driver polls too often.

The average idle power draw on the Precision 5530 (or XPS 15) was ~ 7 W as shown by NotebookCheck, and that machine achieved ~8 hours of battery life, even with a 4K IGZO screen and the same Xeon CPU that I've got; my 7530 (with just the 1080p display) averages five, which is 37.5% less life.

This needs to be fixed.

 

Must we increase the number to above 31 to maybe 32,33,34?? That will stop TDP Throttling of sorts? Can you post a screenshot if possible to what number we must change and increase in that memory location of 0xFED15F50? I'm also experiencing Throttling. Thanks @unclewebb

 

This is the right address, right? Or am I looking at it wrong...

 

Cant activate Throttlestop in win 10 64/ 1803.Missing mfc120u.dll
ASUS ROG G752VT i7-6700HQ HWinfo 64 shows in cpu window Ring/LLC Max 3500 x35 100mhz
Ring/LLC Status all changing and voltage all over the place.
CPU will not return to idle.lowest plugged in 2600mhz base. 900mhz lowest on battery.. Advanced power settings 5% min 100% max.
Has someone tried to overclock this CPU and pooched it???
HELP

 

Hello there.

Sorry if this has been asked before -- cursory search for "TDP Level Control" yielded nothing relevant.

I have a Lenovo X1C6 ultrabook with an i7-8550U and I can't make "TDP Level Control" do anything useful. That is, when I set it from 0 to 2, it is supposed to increase the long-term power limit from 15W to 25W. However, if I stress the CPU long enough (long enough to run out of the Turbo Time Limit), the "PKG Power" meter drops to 15W and the "Throttle" indicator lights up.

What could be wrong with my setup? Maybe some of the pre-installed power management drivers conflict with ThrottleStop? I also have Intel XTU installed (but not running) -- can it cause interference while not running?

This is definitely a software problem (not hardware) because I'm able to do it just fine in Linux and it actually raises the observed package power limit to 25W.

 

On a slightly related note, are there any graphing hardware monitors that are OK to use with ThrottleStop (that is, to monitor the parameters affected by ThrottleStop, like voltages, RAPL power meters, temperature sensors, core frequencies, C-state residency percentages and suchlike)?

Also, as I understand, using any such software together with ThrottleStop will conflict over usage of performance counters, so something must be done about that?

 

My Lenovo with an ELAN track pad used to be horrible too. Same as you, simply resting my big thumb on the touchpad / trackpad sent CPU usage sky rocketing. The driver I am using now is much better but still far from perfect. I mostly use my laptop with a mouse so I kind of forgot about this issue. Some programmer that went to school 30+ years ago needs to go back to school. TrackPad Driver Programming 101. There is no need to sample the trackpad in a tight loop, hundreds of millions of times per second. Class dismissed.

Without HWiNFO running and Nvidia GPU checked off in the ThrottleStop - Options window, does ThrottleStop report any Nvidia GPU temperatures when you are idle? Usually if Optimus is working correctly, ThrottleStop should only report GPU --°C when idle which means that ThrottleStop is not waking up your Nvidia GPU to check on its temperature. That would be pointless.



You can run GPU-Z and have it monitor the Nvidia GPU. This will keep the Nvidia GPU awake so you can compare power consumption data between GPU awake and when GPU should not be awake.

At the desktop, open up ThrottleStop and keep an eye on the C0% data. This should be reasonably stable around 0.5%. If this is spiking all over the place then you need to start searching for what program or programs is causing this. In the Task Manager, click on the Details tab and organize your running tasks by CPU time. Just like real life, crap will float to the top of the list. Many tasks that run non-stop are really not needed.

That is correct. Set that to 0, 1 or 2 which corresponds to TDP Level 0, 1 or 2. The number on the far left side is the lock bit so if you set this to

80000002

That would set your TDP Level to 2 and lock it until the next reboot.

Head to Microsoft and download the appropriate Redistributable package.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4032938/update-for-visual-c-2013-redistributable-package

The 6700HQ has a locked multiplier so it is not overclockable. Might want to use ThrottleStop to enable Speed Shift so you have more control over your CPU.

That is not unusual. On many computers, this is a useless option. The TDP Level variable can be adjusted in multiple locations and ThrottleStop does not have access to all of those locations. This can also be overridden by some other throttling schemes.

Can you run your CPU non-stop at 25 Watts in Linux? Have you installed and tried using the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature?

Intel XTU has lots of graphing options. As far as I know, The Intel programmers use the system timers / performance counters in a friendly manner so you should get good data even if ThrottleStop is running in the background.

 

Happy thanksgiving, Unclewebb !
Not sure if you have any free time but i sent a PM. TS still isn't picking up the "Static" voltage on a Gigabyte Z390.

 

Totally agree with you... it will just simply makes your CPU use less C-states which will lead to other things... higher power consumption, higher temprature,etc... those lower timer resolution era was on Win XP era this link to know what is happening when lowering the timer resolution...
https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/windows-timer-resolution-megawatts-wasted/

Unless if you want to have some adventure and unlock it by yourself...

 

Thanks for the link and advise Unc.
DUCK

 

Does your Trackpad driver supports MSI Mode? for more info. read this https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windows-line-based-vs-message-signaled-based-interrupts.378044/ you may try to make all kind of drivers to MSI Mode
It fixed my trackpad spiking issues by switching the driver to use MSI Mode and also... Do you see any kind of resetting your power plan when this spike happens on the event viewer ? for example... like this...

 

Lost, Tried vcred and still that dll missing. Tried an older TS and GUI came up with a "CPU not supported".

 

Delete ThrottleStop, then clean up with CCleaner, Windows' built-in tools or the tools you prefer. Run Visual C++ Redistributable Runtimes AIO Repack 10-24-18. Re-boot and re-try latest ThrottleStop version.

 

Thank you much.The full package did the trick. Turned TS on,unchecked and rechecked all boxes,CPU went down to 900mhz idle x10 which matches the Ring/LLC status in the hwinfo multiplier box.Next Question: How to get the idle down to where it is supposed to be or consider myself lucky and go with what I got???

Not a newbie but the last time I used TS I was overclocking a QX9300 in a HP 8530w Elitebook.
This is whole different game

 

What speed do you want your CPU to run at when idle? I like having my CPU run at full speed when idle. The faster the better. Power consumption is not bad at all. The speed of the CPU has very little effect. To reduce power consumption, concentrate on reducing the number of useless background tasks. Open up the C State window and maximize the time your CPU spends in the C7 state and make sure your package C States are working correctly too. Making your new CPU run slow and sluggish may not be the answer. Post some pics if you need help.

ThrottleStop was like a best friend for the QX9300. Isn't it great being able to use the same app? Lots of new sliders and buttons to play with to tweak your new CPU but probably not nearly as productive as using ThrottleStop to overclock the stuffing out of a QX9300.

 

So True. Bottom panels off-keyboard raised-sitting in a tray of ice with a fan blowing on it trying to make 4. Obviously Im old :}
Not so much worried about lowest idle.Just haven't seen voltage and speeds jumping all over and have never seen the Ring//LLC thing in the hwinfo multipliers box.
DUCK

My battery is at 29% wear. When I was checking idle speeds on battery,battery was at full charge but lappy shut right down within a minute before I could replug.
Would a faulty battery cause voltage flux on CPU when plugged in???
Edit: OK A quick read on Skylake and Speed Shift and Im reprogrammed.

 

Yes, exactly, I can run my CPU non-stop at 25 W (thermal limits permitting) in Linux. That's why I was asking.

That did the trick. Thanks.

Could you please explain what exactly does that setting do and why does it need an extra driver?

 

@unclewebb do you currently have any plans for the upcoming zen 2 CPUs, including thread ripper etc? we understand you put in a lot of time into TS and really appreciate it and with zen 2 being much more refined than zen we might start to see AMD overtaking Intel eventually (lets hope the competition is pretty even, always a good thing).

another addition features for future TS releases if possible, speed step is build into each profile rather than for all profiles.

 

@unclewebb Just received my Teclast F6 Pro (Well, on Friday) with the m3-7Y30. So far, everything is working in ThrottleStop, including the TDP settings (Had to enable 'disable and lock tdp limit'). TS is working as well on this m3 as my previous i5.

Now to get the C states lower. Fml. Here comes hours and hours more of testing! Won't go under C2 even though I've set it to C10 in the BIOS. Also disabled CFG lock so I could change these settings in TS. Currently idling at 0.8W, but I've seen them m3-5y10c go down to 0.1W.

 

Intel CPUs use at least 3 sets of turbo power limits. Intel XTU allows access to two of these power limits. The WinRing0 driver that ThrottleStop uses only has access to the MSR turbo power limits. ThrottleStop has never had access to the power limit registers in the Memory Mapped IO (MMIO). This was never really a problem until recently when more and more manufacturers started using this secondary set of power limits.

The RwDrv.sys driver is used in Read Write Everything.
http://rweverything.com/

I asked the programmer if I could include this driver with ThrottleStop to gain access to the MMIO power limits but I never heard back from him. His native language is not English so my email probably ended up in the trash. That is why I left this driver as a separate download.

The Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature simply disables this secondary set of power limits and locks them to prevent any other software or system drivers from turning them back on. In my opinion, this was a huge addition to ThrottleStop but I have had very little in the way of positive feedback about successful use of this feature. Thanks for letting me know that your laptop is full speed ahead in Linux and in Windows with the help of ThrottleStop.

The AMD wolfs are closing in on Intel. Competition is a good thing. Sadly, there is not enough time or money for me to start working on a program for a completely different platform.

As for SpeedStep, why do you need to disable this? Use Speed Shift if it is supported or use a Windows power profile with the Minimum processor state set to 100%. No need to disable SpeedStep.

I think there is an option hiding somewhere in the Windows power plan that prevents the CPU from going below package C2. Perhaps it is a driver that causes this problem but I have no idea how to find it. You will have some new friends if you can unlock this mystery. Clean the fat out of your system and try to get C7 residency up to 99%. Package C8 or better would be nice. Here is a screenshot of that goal.

 

@unclewebb I wish to use speedstep, issue i come across with it is that when it is enabled, it is enabled for all profile. I only wish to disable it when i want to have cstate turned off and speedstep conflict with it.

 

SpeedStep and C States are two different things. I still do not understand why you want to disable SpeedStep. Can you post some ThrottleStop pics and show me an example of what you are trying to accomplish? Show me some examples of this conflict that you are trying to fix.

 

looking at speed step when min value is at 1 or 255 (or w/e that highest number maybe). even with cstate box unchecked to have cstate off, it'll affect overall clocks. so that means i can't have cstate off when turning on speed step. if speed step is enabled, then i need to manually go into TS -> turbo power limit window -> adjust the min value each time to effectively have "cstate off" and having idle frequency = max frequency, changing profile no longer matters because speed step on/off min/max value is applied to all 4 profiles.

if you have speed step with each profile then it should be fine, only problem im seeing is that once speed step is turned on, it cant be unchecked unless .ini is deleted or settings changed. even then, it'll be fine because in each profile i can always leave speedstep on but have different minimum value of it for each profile.

screenshot

 

Don't adjust EPP values in TPL window. Let it be at defaults and check off Start Speeshift when TS starts and adjust EPP values in TS main screen. 0 = max performance, 70-80 = Max clocks when on-demand 128=balanced 180-200=battery saver mode.
If you want to use Speedstep, simply check EIST in TS Main window and EPP_HWP is deactivated.

 

ah i see i thought that area isnt a box so we can't enter or change value but thats not the case.

edit: also what happen to the auto snap to edge with TS 8.5 its gone from 8.7 now

 

@ole!!! - When Speed Shift is enabled, SpeedStep on or off does not do anything. Anything related to SpeedStep is ignored by the CPU

Wise advice. Thanks.

My long term plan is to create a single section on the main screen so all Speed Shift adjustments will be located in one place. At the moment, it all works but I agree that adjusting this can be a little confusing.

This was never a feature of any version of ThrottleStop. This is controlled by Windows so if something has changed, ask Microsoft. In Windows 10, things are always changing. Sometimes for the better.

 

my OS hasnt changed and hasnt updated for like 6 years LOL. i basically only changed from 8.5 to 8.70.2 or .6 and the snapping gone away. snapping to edge still works with hwinfo64 so i thought its part of TS but maybe issue is else where.

 

On most OEM BIOS and PCs, enabling speedstep and EPP gives negative performance or sometimes clocks gets stuck and responds slow to on demand tasks. I have observed it on HP,Lenovo and Dell.

@ole!!! Try downloading speedshift driver for 6700K clevo p775 and install it in windows 10. I think OS has forgotten to enable that feature.

 

Should it be better, then, to disable Speedstep in TS?

 

im kinda using speed step as an replacement to cstate.

and im not on windows 10, im on windows 8 (server2012) so i doubt it'll work the way its suppose to. i'll just run a few test like video editing or winrar/7zip to see how it fairs

 

TS 8.50 was compiled with Visual C++ 6.0 from 1998. For TS 8.60 and beyond, I switched to Visual Studio 2013. I did not change anything in ThrottleStop that would change the snap feature so I am not sure what happened. In other words, I am still blaming Microsoft.

In theory, I do not see any reason to disable SpeedStep. I have not done any hands on testing of any modern laptops that support both Speed Shift and SpeedStep so anything is possible. It is always best to do your own testing.

As mentioned, these are two different things. Some of your results before were because you did not have Speed Shift setup correctly. Do some more testing and post some pics. It will help other users understand this topic better.

Intel designed Speed Shift as a replacement for the older SpeedStep. Speed Shift has more variables to control CPU speed. How you set it up really depends on what you want your CPU to be doing when loaded or idle. The biggest negative I have heard about Speed Shift is that some users have found that their CPU needs slightly more voltage for light load stability when Speed Shift is enabled.

 

i know they are different, just using it to power save during idle. i like seeing those voltage go down lol.

the issue with slightly more voltage is because of adaptive, the registry which add settings in my window power management, by changing those settings i could go from stable to non-stable. but now that i got speedstep figured out i could start testing with static voltage and window power settings again.

 

I did one better: I switched to nVidia-only mode, and ran down the battery. There was no difference (within margin of error: about 20 mins) in the battery life, and by extension, the power draw. At this point I'm not even thinking of squeezing that last 0.5 to 1.5 W efficiency: this is an extra power draw that effectively at least doubles idle power draw from 7 W to 15-20 W. I see no difference in Linux, either, so this leads me to believe it is a firmware/hardware-level issue. The Quadro is definitely running.

Thanks for this. My trackpad unfortunately doesn't support MSI mode, but I've switched all drivers that do, to it.

 

When the C States are enabled, the reported core voltage becomes a meaningless number. When a CPU is idle, cores can be spending 99% of their time in C7 where they are disconnected from the voltage rail getting 0 volts. In this state I would ignore reported voltage and have a look at CPU core temps instead. If the fan speed is consistent, core temps might be a better judge of power consumption.

The power consumption data that all monitoring software reports is another meaningless number when a CPU is idle. It is based on CPU VID, not actual CPU voltage so it is not the same as actual power consumption. Just some number that Intel dreamed up for turbo boost control purposes. It might be sort of accurate when a CPU is at or beyond its rated TDP but at idle, it is just a number.