The ThrottleStop Guide

The OEM is in total control. They can pick and choose what laptop models can under volt or do whatever they want. Not a good time to be a consumer. I am expecting that more and more laptop models will have under volting disabled in the near future.

Can you post a screenshot of your FIVR window or let us know what micro code version ThrottleStop shows in that window? Look on the right middle side of that window.

 

@Marocco2, which version does the 'Surface' app report is now installed?

 

@Marocco2 the last firmware update I can find was released December 5, 2019, for the Surface Pro 7.

See:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/4526363/surface-pro-7-update-history

 

Intel started publicly talking about Plundervolt on December 10th. It would not be a big surprise if their friends at Microsoft had already incorporated a fix into their December 5th firmware update.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/security-center/advisory/intel-sa-00289.html

A person needs to be aware of any firmware updates released after this date if under volting is important to them and their laptop.

 

I can assure you I did receive a 8.xx firmware update today.

Inviato dal mio Mi 9T Pro utilizzando Tapatalk

 

Not doubting you, just that it's not listed anywhere 'official'.

 

Here is what says Surface APP

• Modello Surface: Surface Pro 7 Model 1866 i5
• Informazioni sulla versione
  • SAM: 14.48.139.0
  • UEFI: 8.100.140.0
  • Touch driver: 3.315.139.0
  • Wi-Fi driver: 21.40.1.3

 

@Marocco2 thanks.

Just the UEFI seems to be changed from 7.161.140.0 from my Surface Pro 7 Model 1866 i7.

Still, no update showing up for me yet.

 

It's Microsoft, I've got 2 computers next to each other and one gets the updates a few weeks before the other lol

 

So, I just moved from Throttlestop 8.70.6 to 8.72 (found from softpedia). It's zip archive doesn't contain RwDrv.sys file. I have used the one from 8.70.2. Can someone point out where to get the newer one? The one I have is from 2018.

 

I had fun bypassing Lenovo's CPU Power Limits. Seems like they've implemented something like Adaptix, which changes power and thermal limits based on the Windows Power Slider.



Here's the single heatpipe solution. Combined with one of the quietest fans I've heard on a laptop. Turns out all of Lenovo's meddling with fancy "dynamic" power limits can be bypassed with a single sleep-resume cycle.

Turbo Power Limits in TS TPL are obeyed, after enabling "Disable and Lock Power Limits".


Undervolting is still enabled on uCode 0xB8. Lenovo Vantage tried to push a BIOS update on the computer's first bootup. Not having any issues, so I'm not going to update. It seems like I haven't got lucky with the CPU lottery, I can only undervolt -90mV. Lenovo originally ste the Turbo Ratio Limits to 42-40-36-36. Naughty. TS allowed me to get it back to the Intel default 42-41-39-39.


By default, Lenovo doesn't allow its fan to spin to 100%. It stays at around 4900RPM. If I make changes to the EC by RW-Everything, I can make it spin up to 6500RPM. That way, the laptop can dissipate ~30W indefinitely. That above screenshot was taken after 5 consecutive runs of TS-Bench.

And here's CBr15. This is with the stock fan curve, and TS stopped a few seconds before the test finished. I think there was some slight thermal throttling, but i was only slight dips. Speedshift is set to only 80 and I had a few thinsg in the background, so I'd expect a slightly hiher score.

I haven't tested max power benchmarks schu as AIDA64 FPU or Prime95 - though I'd expect the CPU to reach over 40W and thermal throttle pretty soon with the single heatpipe.

So at the end of the day, no surprise - TS once again is able to bypass power limits and let my i5-10210U run at full all core Turbo at 3.9GHz.


EDIT: This was with the MX-2 thermal repaste. The stock thermals were okay, but the repast gave me about 5C lower temperatures. I guess I'm limited to the hopelessly featherlight mounting pressure.

 

So I've installed the program and going thru the guide.

In the Options and FIVR panels it's showing some default values. Where did these values come from? Things like IccMax set to 140, Cache ratio min/max, Alarm temp for the GPU, the timer figures under Misc., Power Saver C0% at 35.

Are some of these default for any configuration? And then for others like IccMax, does the program poll cpu/gpu and read or set values from some database for my specific CPU/GPU?

The guide doesn't cover any of that.

And if my bios already has Speed Shift enabled, there's no need to do it in the program.

And what's the current function of the Turn On/Off option with a Coffee Lake CPU. Does the button actually function in that capacity or not.

If not, then I take it that the program is running and doing it's thing when it's minimized in the tray but if you close the program, it's effectively Off and not doing its thing?

Thanks

 

I do not own the RwDrv.sys file so for legal reasons, I will not be including it with the ThrottleStop download. If you need the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature, you will need to download the RwDrv.sys file separately from Mega. This file has not changed so if you have already downloaded RwDrv.sys, there is no reason to download it again. One download per customer.

https://mega.nz/#!CNNA0SoC!Z2Xi2icwX4d4jzW016dKnKGhVglWmSSPpgiRU7VCG6g

Good to know. Thanks for sharing.

 

If I am not mistaken, the "default" values (at least most of them) the first time ThrottleStop is launched are the values from the firmware/BIOS that are platform- and manufacturer-specific. In other words, if the manufacturer makes a default value different than Intel specs, ThrottleStop is going to mimick those values (good or bad) until you override them with better values. I am also reasonably certain that once you override values with ThrottleStop, you could actually close it and they would stay applied until you reboot unless you change the values again using ThrottleStop or something else. Perhaps @unclewebb can confirm this. I don't want to state anything incorrectly.

 

Any good tutorials for performance tweaking on RW Everything?

Aside from that, is there any specific way to tweak to the cache ratio for more performance? Its currently at a default 8/35

 

That is correct. If you do not remember your default settings or if you want to find out what your bios is doing, delete the ThrottleStop.INI config file, reboot and let ThrottleStop read the default values from your CPU.

Most tweaks can be done by using ThrottleStop. I like to keep things simple for users.

Set the cache Min and Max as high as they can go for max performance. Simple!

 

OK, so I need to find out what IccMax is, what it does and why I should change its default value as read from the CPU. And if any amount of change is tied somehow to what you've done with Offset Voltage.

If you set both Min and Max cache to as high as they can go, wouldn't that make them the same? And then, why would you need both settings?

Set caches according to what? I mean, can you only set the TS software up to certain value? Or what feedback are you looking for to know what to set it to and what method of reading that feedback is used?

 

im curious too

 

You forgot the keyword from the post you quoted:

Try using the "search" feature in this thread.

There is no official documentation for all the features in ThrottleStop. Most options are experimentations. Keep experimenting and use whichever yields stable performance.

 

Doing a cache ratio of <31/38 on my 7700hq appears to do nothing but negate the undervolting I have done and raise temperatures. A minimal value of 1-31 seems to just keep the VID undervolt value just as it is. Curiously that same 1-31 value is what is on "intel power balance". Anything lower then 31 for the minimal appears to make no difference.

Doing a cache ratio of 1/1 yelds a 5% performance lose. Not sure what is meant by setting them as "high as they go" in this case.

This was all tested in TS bench,

 

On TS , yes, there is a lose in perf but on cpu bench scenarios like for example FS physics test you will gain few points as your ram memory will be a bit faster.

And setting cache from 31 to 35 in my example is giving additional 0.1V but UV is still there but due to higher cache ratio vid is higher.

General recomendation for every day use is to leave it as default as when there will be a need cache would be auto set to cpu ratio minus 3 which is Good.

 

I searched this ThrottleStop Forum for IccMax. I put my user name in the "Posted by Member" box and the search feature returned 3 pages of results. IccMax controls how much current flows through your CPU cores before they start throttling. Raise this if you have any current limit throttling issues. Try lowering this variable, do some testing. Anything flashing red in Limit Reasons? Experimentation is the best way to learn ThrottleStop.

Definitely.

The Max setting controls the maximum cache multiplier and the Min setting controls the minimum cache multiplier. The minimum multiplier is used when the CPU is lightly loaded. If you increase the minimum cache speed, you might get some more light load performance but at the expense of more heat. There are no free lunches when overclocking any part of a CPU.

Did you try doing this? Give it a try.

Some benchmarks or games or apps or whatever might be heavily cache dependent so a faster cache will benefit them. If an app did not use the cache extensively, perhaps you could reduce the max cache speed and this would free up some power so the CPU cores can run faster. I am not sure what would be best. It depends on the app. These adjustments are included in ThrottleStop for those that love to experiment and for those that are trying to get every last ounce of performance out of their CPU. That is why people like @Mr. Fox love ThrottleStop.

It is also useful having access to some of these adjustments so users can keep manufacturers honest. On the previous page, @Che0063 mentioned that Lenovo was playing funny with the default Turbo Ratio Limits. ThrottleStop was able to help him fix that problem so he could get his CPU running like Intel intended.

That is just one benchmark. There are hundreds of different ones to choose from. Try testing some real world applications that are important to you.

If you increase the cache ratio sky high, when you try to Apply this setting, ThrottleStop will reduce your request to something more reasonable. With my 4700MQ, the maximum CPU multiplier is 36 and the maximum cache ratio multiplier is also 36. If I try to set the maximum cache multiplier to 70 or 80, ThrottleStop will correct this back to 36. That is as "high as they go".



My recommendation was to set the cache speed high for maximum performance. My laptop is well cooled and mostly sits plugged in on my desktop. Some extra heat is not a concern. You have to decide what your goals are. ThrottleStop provides a wide range of options so you can get your CPU running exactly how you like it. Fast or slow or hot or cold or anywhere in between.

 

I have Throttlestop itself working perfectly on my win10 machine (thank you) but for some reason when I set it to run in task scheduler following your guide, it won't open due to the "winring0.dll error". However, when I manually open the exact same throttlestop.exe app (or launch it from a shortcut) it works fine. I have even tried delaying the start by 30 secs or a minute in task scheduler in case Windows needed some time to load it up before launching, but that doesn't help. It will give me the error when it tries to launch from task scheduler, and then I can immediately launch it manually and it works fine! Any ideas?

 

Did you set "Run with highest privileges" in task properties?

On that note, 8.70 works great for me, except Windows 10 keeps closing it sometimes overnight (I believe when Defender runs).

 

Hello. Yes, run with highest privileges is checked. And the exe is set to run as administrator also

 

Try disabling memory core isolation in win10 than restart and try doing task once again

 

Did you follow the Task Scheduler Guide exactly?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/#post-6865107

No cheating, no cutting corners. Are you in an account with Admin privileges? Where is your ThrottleStop folder located? Did you move your ThrottleStop folder to a different directory after first running ThrottleStop.exe?

C:\Program Files (x86)\ThrottleStop is where I have all of the ThrottleStop related files located. If you have your folder on your desktop or in some sub directory related to your account, perhaps the Task Scheduler is having a hard time accessing it during boot up. It might be less suspicious when it finds WinRing0 in a sub directory of the Program Files (x86) directory.

Are you using the Task Scheduler? Did you follow the Task Scheduler Guide exactly? ThrottleStop should never close by itself. There are some questionable Task Scheduler options that you have to be aware of. Read the guide for more info.

I used to blame Windows Defender for any ThrottleStop issues. I switched one computer over to Windows Defender, probably a year ago, and I have not had a single issue with ThrottleStop starting up.

 

Yeah I've been running it the same way for years. The thing is, it doesn't close regularly. My computers are on 24/7, sometimes Throttlestop is just gone. Could be the undervolt... but I see no other issues, usually Windows 10 will BSOD on startup/restart even if it's stable in games or even Prime95.

Vyncenze, that's strange, I've never had that. Could be because of location - move it to Program Files if it's not in there, like Unclewebb said.

Or try to download it again and just use your old Throttlestop.ini file.

Sounds like a permission problem to me.

I see there's a security feature, under properties it says "This file came from another computer and might be blocked to protect this computer". There's an "Unblock" option next to it - try that (on all files, maybe)?

 

ThrottleStop should not be randomly closing, ever. That never happens on my computer. Other users have mentioned this problem and every time, the real problem was how they had the Task Scheduler setup. There are some options in the Task Scheduler that are grayed out by default. You need to make sure those boxes are clear. The TS guide explains this issue.

That is a good sign that your under volt is too aggressive and that your CPU needs more voltage.

It is very common that you can under volt an Intel CPU more when fully loaded compared to when it is lightly loaded. When idle or lightly loaded, the CPU might already be at a very low voltage level. When you apply an under volt on top of that, you will often times see light load BSOD problems.

When testing with Prime 95 or the TS Bench, make sure your CPU is full load stable but also make sure that it can run the same under volt when only running one or two threads of these stress tests. You might find during light load tests that your under volt is not as stable as you thought it was.

 

One odd thing I've noticed on the i7-1065g7 is that the CPU undervolt also undervolts the i-GPU but the same amount. The only bummer about that is I get GPU errors long before I run into a CPU instability.

 

The 10210U screenshots two pages back do not show this. I think these are a slightly newer 10th Gen version. It seems odd that a CPU between 9th Gen and new 10th Gen would be different. Comet Lake vs Ice Lake

Edit - This post does not show these voltages linked in any way.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-1084#post-10978292

Another Surface Pro 7 user just got side swiped by a plundervolt firmware update. No more under volting and no way to go back to the previous firmware. That sucks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/ex4swb/surface_pro_7_i5_1035g4_undervolting_troubles/

 

Hello, I have been using Throttlestop to undervolt my CPU for several years first with a Predator Helios 300 laptop and now with an Alienware Area51m it works great thank you.

I have a question, I have the i9-9900KS CPU in my Area51 and I was wondering how to correctly use Throttlestop to get a little bit more or at least the best performance out of the CPU.

( I already have it undervolted -100 working great )

I have never done any CPU overclocking using Throttlestop and all the guides I can find seem to only really cover undervolting.

Can Throttlestop be used to set the multipliers and slightly OC this CPU if the BIOS on this laptop does not support it ?

Thanks for any info.

 

Yeah that's how it appears but the CPU undervolt is tied to the IA voltage offset and the GPU undervolt is tied to the slice.

 

Hi guys,

I've got a Surface Pro 7 and I believe I'm running on the older firmware (ucode 0x38). I've used Shut Up 10 to disable all windows updates but obviously this isn't the optimal solution.

Any recommendations for preventing firmware updates on the Surface Pro? I know you guys aren't a Surface Pro support group, but I think considering this is specifically affecting undervolting I wouldn't be surprised if there is expertise in this issue on here.

 

Hi, you should definitly create an image system of your hard drive or ssd where 's your windows, with "Macrium Reflect" create a usb bootable with Macrium if you wanna reinstall an image : AND control your windows update with a third party like this one : http://m.majorgeeks.com/files/details/wumt_wrapper_script.html

 

Thanks for this, exactly what I was looking for.

 

I do not own or have access to this CPU. Intel does not share their top secret FIVR documentation so using ThrottleStop on these CPUs might be a little buggy.

The screenshots posted so far do not show this.

That is just ThrottleStop and HWiNFO using two different names for the exact same thing.

That has always been true. As far as I know, the Intel GPU and the Intel GPU Unslice have always been tied to the same voltage. You can adjust these independently in ThrottleStop but I think the Intel GPU expects to have these adjusted equally. If one offset is set numerically higher, I think the numerically lower offset value will be used.

That is sort of the same with the CPU core and CPU cache voltages. On some Intel CPUs, these need to be set equally or the CPU will only use the numerically smaller offset value for the under volt.

I will probably leave ThrottleStop as is until I find some proper documentation or come across some similar hardware to experiment with. On your i7-1065g7, it is possible that ThrottleStop is using the wrong label for some of the FIVR voltages. By comparing to HWiNFO, hopefully you can work around this issue and still use ThrottleStop to accomplish some under volting.

That is always a good idea but I think if you install a firmware update, your bios chip will be updated and there might be no going back. Installing a previous system image will probably not fix an updated firmware problem. Best to block firmware specific updates with the WUMT Wrapper Script / Sledgehammer tool that you recommended. Anyone that wants to continue under volting their CPU should be doing this.

 

Bump...

Anyone have any tips to share on Overclocking i9-9900KS through Throttelstop ?

 

@Lopt - I do not have any hands on experience using ThrottleStop to overclock the Core i9-9900KS. Typically you just go into the FIVR window, click on the Overclock option and adjust the turbo ratio limits higher. Try doing this, run some benchmarks and see if you get any throttling or if your CPU is running faster. Post some screenshots while your CPU is loaded with Limit Reasons open. I might be able to make some general suggestions if I see any of your settings that are not quite right.

Try using the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature. This might help unlock multiplier overclocking if you are having problems.

Most people with that CPU are probably doing their overclocking in the bios. You might not get a lot of feedback in this forum.

 

Thank you I will fiddle around with it and post some screen shots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

You're right, I just pulled up my Aero 15x and the cpu undervolt also shows up as the IA Voltage offset. An odd thing is I cannot adjust the unslice on the is-1065g7 but can do so on my i7-9850h.

It's just odd that as I undervolt this i7-1065g7 it will pass any cpu test but the second I through a simple GPU stress it locks. If I remove the undervolt it passes the GPU stress without issue. The GPU slice undervolt doesn't seem to matter a bit but perhaps I can change it to a positive value to see if I can undervolt the CPU/cache more.

I appreciate all of your hard work.

 

I setup TS as you suggested I believe and did see a change in TS FIVR screen after reloading
Here are some screens of my TS and one of a Cinebenchr20 run.

 

@Lopt - I am not sure what your goals are. Some people want good performance without their laptop becoming an inferno while others are after maximum performance or maximum benchmark numbers and do not care about the details.

If you are after better benchmark numbers, you need to increase the Turbo Boost Long Power Max (PL1) value beyond 100 Watts. Your temperatures look great. You have lots of headroom. The 9900KS is designed to automatically thermal throttle at 100°C to prevent any damage.

Did you limit the Cache Ratio Max to 43 on purpose? For bench testing, maybe you can try increasing this.

If the turbo ratios are working correctly, when you run a 1 Thread TS Bench test with the above settings, you should see a 49.00 multiplier in ThrottleStop or very close to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i9_microprocessors

According to Wikipedia, the 9900KS is designed to use the 50 multiplier whether 1, 2, 3, ... or all 8 cores are active. If the Wiki is true, setting the turbo multipliers below 50 means you are under clocking your CPU, not overclocking it. Another option to keep the beast in control would be to adjust the turbo power limits to however much heat you are comfortable with.

Thanks for posting some pics. Great to see ThrottleStop working on this CPU. Everything in ThrottleStop appears to be working correctly. Not bad when you realize that I have never had access to a 9th Gen Intel CPU or an 8 core CPU for development purposes.

 

Thank you , I am just looking to get the best performance out of this KS that I can to see what it can do, I could be wrong but my gut tells me it has a lot of untapped potential.

Since the short turbo max is 131 can I assume that's a safe number to push the long too or does the long need to be under that say 120 or so or lower ?

The 43 Cache Ratio Max seems to be this chips default ? at least that's what XTU says when I played around in XTU ( I currently have it uninstalled as I understand can't use ThrottleStop and XTU together )

Historically how high seems to be safe for Cache Ratio Max ? or just increment by 1 and test until I get errors in TS Bench I assume ?

The reason I had put it at 49 for 1st 4 cores and 48 for the rest was purely guess work on my part and benchmark results, I "seemed" to get lower scores with 50 across the board then with 49 / and I am unsure whether running all cores at max always equals more performance ? as I see a lot of results from Lower clock speeds that surpass this machine ( not by all that much to be honest ) but I was unsure if giving the CPU a little wiggle room by reducing some of the cores would help it maintain max performance while keeping it under thermal throttle limits on this laptop.

HOWEVER please understand I only recently got back into PC hardware it's been years and the last chip I seriously played with was a Celeron back when they were new and you had to make a new trace on the motherboard to "unlock" it and overclock it.

So a LOT of this has changed and I am trying to find my way and get back up to speed I really appreciate your taking the time to give me some tips

 

@Lopt - Your CPU is not reaching maximum performance because it is power limit throttling. I would increase all the turbo multipliers back up to their default setting of 50. After that, run Cinebench R20 and see what multipliers ThrottleStop is reporting. If you are seeing less than 50.00, open Limit Reasons and find out what the reason for throttling is. While your CPU is running Cinebench, keep increasing the turbo power limits and try to make your turbo throttling problem go away. Post a screenshot of ThrottleStop while your CPU is fully loaded.

A max core temp of 80°C tells me that you can increase your turbo power limits another 10, 20, or 30 Watts before you get near thermal throttling. You might not be able to run the full 50.00 multiplier as reported by ThrottleStop for the entire benchmark run. Hopefully with some more power, you can get closer to your CPU's full rated speed without overheating.

Save the Cache Ratio fine tuning until you get your CPU MHz up where they should be.

I have not been following the Area 51m thread so I am not sure what limitations Dell is using on these laptops.

 

Great thank you I will follow your advise and report back!

 

Dell doesn't support last chips from 9th gen Intel processors. The 9900KS works in the Area-51m but power is capped at 131W max.
*OFFICIAL* Alienware Area-51M Owner's Lounge



@Lopt Just max out everything and see how it works out. The worst that can happen is only lower clock speed.

Let Cashe multi be low as possible to let the real Cores have the power headroom. Cores is still King.

 

Must be competing priorities. There are too many more important things for them to concentrate on rather than making things right with the flagship product.

Maybe it will be "fixed" right after they are done freezing over the Lake of Fire in the pits of Hell.

It has only been a year. We need to be patient. Have another glass of Kool-Aid and chill. *NOT*


Hey... is that a leprechaun riding on a unicorn?

Alienware marketing strategy...