The ThrottleStop Guide

No need to open HWMonitor. Open the FIVR window and leave it open. Now do a suspend resume cycle. The monitoring table at the top right corner of the FIVR window will confirm if your voltages are being set correctly after resuming. Thanks for confirming that this new feature is working.

Connected standby has been a part of Windows for over 7 years. My old laptop does not use connected standby so I had no idea that ThrottleStop was not working correctly after resuming from this mode.

Thanks to @maffle for the bug report.

 

I don't think the problem was on your end, I think it's Windows 10. For example I set task scheduler to start TS on any user login and no matter what I did, it always took me to login screen, even with no password set, after wake up from sleep, so that should have restarted TS also, but it didn't. No matter, it was minor inconvenience and it seems to be working fine now.

 

The problem was definitely on my end.

@maffle did some testing and taught me about connected standby. I learned that ThrottleStop needed a couple of lines of new code so that it can recognize when a laptop goes into and comes out of connected standby mode.

That was the problem. Old versions of ThrottleStop had no idea when a user would resume from connected standby. New ThrottleStop tells Windows to notify ThrottleStop anytime a user enters or exits connected standby. Normal Windows sleep and resume messages have always been sent automatically. For new connected standby messages, ThrottleStop has to specifically ask Windows to send these messages to it. Problem solved.

The next problem is that the new connected standby code is not compatible with Windows 7 because connected standby did not exist in the Windows 7 era. There are still lots and lots of computers running Windows 7 so I had to write some more code to maintain backwards compatibility with Windows 7. That fix should be ready for testing tomorrow.

Edit - If you want to know if your laptop is set up to use connected standby, open a command window and enter this command. If your computer is using the S0 state, it is using connected standby.

powercfg /a

 

Brand new computer with 10875 and only S3 available.
S1, S2, S0 -system firmware does not support those standby states. ??????
Could it be because I disabled hibernation?
I always disable hibernation, hibernation is broken since at least Win xp it corrupts drives on dual boot systems.

 

@pete962 - Not all manufacturers enable Standby S0 (connected standby) on all of their devices. Some users have complained about excessive battery power consumption when their computers are supposedly idle. Connected standby is not for everyone. Some manufacturers probably leave it off deliberately.

Whether a laptop takes 5 seconds to resume from standby mode or less than 1 second to resume from connected standby mode, does that really make a difference? Microsoft wanted to create a phone like user experience. Only problem is that most users do not use their computers like they use their phones. If you use your phone 101 times a day, you want it to start up immediately. When I turn on my computer, it is usually on for hours at a time. Having my computer start up a couple of seconds quicker does not improve my user experience one bit.

 

Actually come to think of it, you're absolutely right I, don't need anything else besides S3. And please don't get me started what I think about MS trying to replicate phone experience on the computer, the S0 standby, metro apps etc.

 

@unclewebb

Any interesting findings in latest intel leak for unlocking our cpus?

 

Has anybody had any luck with the i7 1065G7? I have a Razer Blade 13 (late 2019). I can only do a -50 on the cpu. Anything over that and the system is unstable, especially in games. I was able to test -100 CPU and -30 cache and run Cinebench, but any game would crash immediately. For the record I use an external eGPU for gaming. This CPU has the TB controller integrated so the undervolting so maybe that may play a role.

 

Yes, my laptop is nearly same as yours. The maximum undervolt of Cache is -40mV and Core is -54.7mV respectively.

 

i was wondering what "c state demotion/undemotion" and "pkg demotion/undemotion" are? should i tick/untick something or leave them alone?

 

The Core i7-1065G7 is one of the new 10nm chips so that could be a factor, maybe it doesn't have the same tolerance as the 14nm chips most people in this thread are using.

Charles

 

@Akern1 - On modern processors, using the C state demotion / undemotion options seems to have very little measurable effect on the percentage of time CPU cores or the CPU package will spend in the various C states. These settings used to make a difference 10+ years ago but not so much anymore. That is one of the reasons why I hid that half of the C states window. There is rarely a need to adjust these.

Here is what the Intel documentation says.

If I am reading this correctly, if the two demotion options are not checked, this should encourage the CPU to spend more time in C7.

If I ever start up my 1st Gen Core i system, I will post a couple of screenshots to show you what these settings used to do.

 

Am I the only one irritated by the lack of power options in Windows 10? With an 8th Gen laptop, I adjusted the Power Mode slider in the notification area from left to right.

Better Battery
https://i.imgur.com/CzSts4m.png

Better Performance
https://i.imgur.com/2r2ZMIh.png

Best Performance
https://i.imgur.com/FjgzD67.png

The Better Performance setting uses the exact same Speed Shift EPP value of 84 for both profiles. How is that Better Performance? There is no difference. When going further to Best Performance, the Speed Shift EPP value drops to 63. The difference between EPP = 84 and EPP = 63 would be difficult to measure let alone notice. All 3 screenshots show the CPU is running at 800 MHz when lightly loaded. How is that Best Performance? It is the exact same as the other two modern Windows profiles.

In the Power Options I found this.



I have the choice of using the Balanced profile or the Balanced profile. Microsoft decided to remove all of the other options that used to be here for the last 20+ years. I did some digging and found out that the traditional Windows power profiles still exist. They were not removed, merely hidden. I have previously written down a command that one can enter into a command window but in a 1200+ page thread, stuff like this gets lost pretty quickly. Instead, how about a new ThrottleStop feature so users can easily access what Microsoft has hidden?



One mouse click and the traditional Windows High Performance power profile has returned.



What does that get a person? How about an efficient CPU that runs at full speed when lightly loaded.



Not everyone needs full performance or reduced latency when plugged in but I know some people will appreciate easy access to this setting. The music production guys are always complaining about pops and ticks due to slow CPUs and sluggish C states. Maybe this will make them happy.

This new feature also includes access to the traditional Windows Power Saver option for those that sometimes need a slow and sluggish CPU. ThrottleStop will let you choose or not choose a Windows power option on a per profile basis so each profile within ThrottleStop can use a different setting. This new feature has been tested in Windows 10 2004 and should be available next week.

 

Microsoft had to make the Power Mode slider for own messed up hardware.
Some Microsoft Surface devices are throttling down to 400MHz.
Of course they forgot that others have other/better hardware-notebooks. What is better than force this modern "throttling slider" on all? T

And there is soon NO more real desktop OS. Disappeared after Win 7 when Microsoft become focused on Windows phones with Win 8.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...nd-announcements.826887/page-65#post-11038549

The different profiles is still easly accessed. You find them in Windows Mobility Center near the clock window

 

What does flashing "POWER" in red text next to the Limits button mean?

 

I'm on -69.3 right now.

 

It means your CPU is power throttling. If you click on the "Limits" button you will see either PL1, or PL2, or both, lit up like this:

PL2 is the power threshold for a short boost duration while under load, while PL1 is the power threshold for long term boost while under load.

Here's more information on how power limits work for Intel CPU's

If you keep this window open while doing a CPU intensive task, such as running a benchmark, you will probably see PL2 and later PL1 flash in red, meaning it's actively throttling to keep the CPU power under the threshold. In the main window you can see the PKG power will stay under whatever the threshold for your laptop is.

You may be able to tweak the PL1, PL2, and Tau settings using throttlestop by clicking the TPL button in the main window. In the Turbo Power Limit window "Turbo Boost Long Power Max" refers to PL1, "Turbo Boost Short Power Max" refers to PL2, and "Turbo Time Limit" to Tau.

 

@WigsterR - Thanks for posting the link to that Anandtech article. I added it to the first post in this thread so it does not get lost.

 

The problem is that in Windows 10 2004, Microsoft removed the High Performance and Power Saver profiles from the Mobility Center too. That is why I decided to add these to ThrottleStop.



The other new feature I just noticed is that after first booting up, all of the Package C States are broken. Not sure if this is a Windows 10 2004 feature or maybe this problem happened before that.

https://i.imgur.com/5ABGy2t.png

Now the fan is constantly active when idle. The trick is to pull the power adapter, switch to battery power for a second and then plug it back in. After that, Package C8 starts working again and the fan stops so it is silent.

Endless bugs. Instead of releasing a new Windows 10 version every 6 months, maybe Microsoft should take a break and work on fixing the bugs.

 

This is from my test rig. And it works on other test rigs as well. The first I do after a new install is put up the High Performance profile. Maybe bro @Mr. Fox also could check his Crash dummy OS and post pict. Win 10 has become totally broken as a reliable OS. And worse it will be. I think Microsoft try once again make it more unisex and destroy it further. Sad for those who hoped for a real computer OS.

 

@Papusan - The 8th Gen laptop I am playing with has Windows 10 Home.
Maybe that is why basic power option features have disappeared from it.

 

Windows 10 2004 latest version wintenforum.com

"It sounds like you have Modern Standby which would only have Balanced by default".


How to Check if Modern Standby is Supported in Windows 10
"Windows 10 Modern Standby (Modern Standby) expands the Windows 8.1 Connected Standby power model. Connected Standby, and consequently Modern Standby, enable an instant on / instant off user experience, similar to smartphone power models. Just like the phone, the S0 low power idle model enables the system to stay up-to-date whenever a suitable network is available"

As I said in previous post... Microsoft engineers design their OS around/for own crippled hardware. Sad!

 

That must be the difference. With ThrottleStop 9.2, even with Modern Standby enabled, users will be able to access the Windows High Performance and Power Saver profiles if they want to. No more Microsoft forced limitations.

https://i.imgur.com/ZGC2KKO.png

 

looking forward to trying it out! I have gone thru n messed with a whole bunch of the default balanced power profile (Ac vs dc settings) including various hidden ones but can’t be sure if I got them all.

 

MIne is shown "Power Standby S3" in powercfg -a command.
What does it means?

 

Just use your powershell and type those commands :

powercfg -duplicatescheme a1841308-3541-4fab-bc81-f71556f20b4a //Power saver
powercfg -duplicatescheme 381b4222-f694-41f0-9685-ff5bb260df2e // Balanced (default)
powercfg -duplicatescheme 8c5e7fda-e8bf-4a96-9a85-a6e23a8c635c // High performance
powercfg -duplicatescheme e9a42b02-d5df-448d-aa00-03f14749eb61 // Ultimate Performance

It might duplicate already existing power profiles - but you can safely remove them
That's the easiest way, however there exist few more to do same thing - if above method fail (I tested it on few recent Windows versions with success) then read article below :

https://appuals.com/how-to-restore-missing-power-plan-options-on-windows-10/

PS: Balanced is your default power plan, if you lost it/remove/customize too much - then you can restore it easily now.

 

ThrottleStop 9.2
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/

New Features
- Added access to the default Windows power options.
- Restored Windows 7 compatibility.
- Fixed C0% reporting 0.0 for all threads on some CPUs.
- Updated TS Bench test with random MHz option.
- Fixed BCLK MHz reporting when using Core Isolation.
- Added support for devices that use connected standby.
- Added reporting of suspend / resume times to the log file.
- Removed auto BCLK updates when resuming.
- Fixed GDI handle leak.
- New color and font options.
- New black notification area icon option.
- New option to remove the title bar.
-Removed PROCHOT indicator box.

S3 is traditional standby.
S0 is Modern Standby, also known as connected standby.

Do a Google search for Modern Standby and you will find out why this feature is so wonderful. Include the word problems in your search and you will find out about some issues some users have with laptops that only support Modern Standby.

It used to be possible to disable Modern Standby with a registry tweak. For some laptops running Windows 10 2004, this may no longer be possible.

 

Great new features, brother. You never cease to amaze me.

Nice to be able to tweak the colors to one's personal preference.

 

@unclewebb I have ThrottleStop v9.2 running on a Windows 10 (build 2004) laptop with an i7 8th gen processor. Whenever I switch from AC to Battery power, ThrottleStop quits and I have to rerun it. What could be the issue?

Thank you for your work.

EDIT: Here are my ThrottleStop settings: https://pastebin.com/RAKpFa8v

 

@slander - Are you using the Task Scheduler? Did you follow the guide?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/#post-6865107

Here is a hint of what is probably causing your problem.

https://i.imgur.com/b4wPCiS.png

I am kind of surprised myself at what ThrottleStop has become. Not bad coming from a guy that got kicked out of programming school.

Hard part now is dreaming up new features that are useful. Still got a couple of ideas on my things to do list.

 

I have got strange problem with ThrottleStop. CPU don't want to run all cores at 3.5 GHz. If i run TS Bench - it's maximum go 3398-3411 MHz (and jump during test), but not stable 3500 MHz. In main window i see C0% is 99.9, and not 100. My CPU is i7-3820QM. ThrottleStop version is 9.2. I switched back to 9.0 (where it's work fine) and it's broken too.

Update:

No idea what it was, but i fixed it. I deleted ThrottleStop.ini, go in BIOS and load default settings, set memory frequency to 1866 MHz (just like it was before), set PL1 to 47, PL2 to 57, Tau to 56 and Save & Reboot. ThrottleStop autorunned and i set NVIDIA GPU. Run CB R15 and... C0% is 100%, frequency is 3500 MHz on all cores. After CB i run TS Bench and there also was 3500 MHz on all cores. Very strange...

 

It sounds like your CPU was either thermal throttling or power limit throttling. Next time you have this problem, look at the CPU temperature and look at what is being reported for power consumption. The main screen of ThrottleStop should show the Max for each.

Try running Cinebench R20. It is a longer and more demanding test compared to R15. If you have any throttling problems, you will these problems in R20 long before you ever have problems in R15.

 

Hey guys I have a problem lately my undervolt profile(4 months old) seem to be getting pretty unstable, was from the start unstable, like 1 bsod a week or so(only when booting into windows, seems like after that the os adjusts to the different voltage). When I test on throttlestop 16 threads I get an error like the on the 3rd or 4th time bench but never crashed from error or froze entirely. The thing is I really need that underclock saves my laptop from burning in eternal flames)(lol) , I hit that nice max 86 87 degrees after hours of full intensive heavy load with max 3.9ghz on all Cores on i7 8750h, with stock I was getting down to base clocks or maybe 2.3 with bd prochot at 94 which throttlestop can't unlock for me(either the power limits but it's OK) anyways would like some advices or even yet ideas. Thanks in advance

Sent from my ZTE A2020G Pro using Tapatalk

 

Excellent update!

Was there a way to add Ultimate High Performance into the list of battery profiles?

 

That is the good thing about the TS Bench test. It will start to report errors before your computer has so many errors that it crashes. Think of the TS Bench as an early warning system. Any errors being reported are telling you that your computer is not 100% stable. When undervolting, this is a good sign that you have gone too far. Your CPU and / or cache are begging you for some more voltage.

If it was my laptop, I would increase the voltage a little and allow it to run a little hotter. Hot and stable is better than unstable. Intel says any temperature under 100°C is a safe operating temperature. If your PROCHOT is locked to 94°C, it will always be perfectly safe. It is OK to run your CPU a little closer to this limit.

Not sure why anyone would want to or need to be using the Ultimate High Performance mode when running on battery power. That seems a little crazy to me but I have learned that the customer is always right.

This new feature allows users to access the 3 default Windows power profiles. I am sure more options will follow if there is a user demand for it. Your request has been added to the things to maybe do list.

 

@unclewebb it might be good idea to finally add autostart within the function/option menu.

 

Just I game and my laptop gets very hot and tbh I don't wanna risk liquid metal short also Any idea why throttlestop is the only utility that shows me bd prochot triggered on every boot on the checkbox while hwinfo shows bd prochot is off with a 0 value? Latest cache undervolt that is 100% stable is very far I have now - 166 with max 86 87 temp after hours of continuous load and stable is - 147 or even - 150 which gives me 87 in the first seconds and 93 - 96 even 98 top temp after hours of cuntinous load only to cpu, also throttlestop can't unlock bd prochot for me
Thanks in advance

Sent from my ZTE A2020G Pro using Tapatalk

 

HWiNFO automatically clears throttling information out of the CPU. If you want ThrottleStop to show you accurate results in Limit Reasons, do not run HWiNFO.

Are you adjusting the core and cache offset voltages to the same value? Do you know that you do not have to do this? You are undervolting your cache too much. That is what causes problems with stability. Reduce the cache to -130 mV and then start increasing the core offset. The 8750H is usually stable with the core at -200 mV or more. Use Cinebench R20 to test your voltages. Watch for better performance or better temperatures by reducing the core more than the cache. This might help lower your in game temperatures a few more degrees.

It is the PROCHOT Offset that is probably locked in the Options window. BD PROCHOT is not the same as PROCHOT Offset. To unlock BD PROCHOT, you just need to clear the box in ThrottleStop. The BD PROCHOT box should not be locked.

 

It's not ticked mate neither the locked offset on options neither bd prochot on main ts window and I already have - 294mv core, could that cause problem to the vrms on my mobo? Seems the most stable with the - 166 uv on cache I have thanks in advance

Sent from my ZTE A2020G Pro using Tapatalk

Aight I also heard lately that undervolting too much can decrease the potential of the cpu in the long run as the chip becomes more 'lazy' that ain't true right?

Sent from my ZTE A2020G Pro using Tapatalk

 

That sounds like an internet myth. I have never heard of a lazy CPU. They either run at their full rated speed or they are throttling due to temperature or a power limit or they are broken and do not run at all.

Probably not. It sounds like your computer is running fine. If it becomes unstable in the future, give the cache some more voltage.

 

Oh there is such a thing, its called chip degradation. And it happens if you OVERvolt the cpu too much, not undervolt. This is caused by electrons bumping into the silicon in that cpu causing them to move out of place causing the cpu to be more "leaky" and requiring more voltage to operate at a given clockspeed. All cpus are imperfect to a degree, the more perfect it is, the higher the silicon quality and the higher it can overclock/undervolt.

Running at high voltages will degrade the cpu over time and reduce the silicon quality which is why a 5.1ghz overclock you set 3 years ago was stable at 1.3v but now it needs 1.35v to be stable.

 

Whenever my laptop with Nvidia GPU is plugged into an external monitor, the deeper c states (c7 and c8) gets disabled and gets stuck at c3.

Does anyone have an idea on how to enable the deeper c states when connected to an external monitor?

 

Have you set NVIDIA Control Panel to prefer the Intel GPU over the GeForce GPU?

You might try using a different port for the external monitor to see if it behaves differently. On my TongFang system it appears the mini-DP route directly to the GPU and bypass the CPU. I use two external monitors connected to the two mini-DP and the laptop display doesn't figure into the NVIDIA Control Panel configuration options when the external monitors are connected. Likewise, the external monitors have no configuration options in the Intel Graphics Control Panel because the NVIDIA GPU does not appear to route through the CPU with external monitors connected.

If you are running HWiNFO64 you may need to uncheck the options to wake or poll sleeping GPUs.

 

I do not think it is possible for the CPU to use the package C8 state when an external monitor is being used and the Nvidia GPU is active. I think this is a limitation of the CPU.

The core C states are the important ones. The power consumption difference is minimal between package C3 and package C8, especially when you are plugged in while using an external monitor.

 

I have the same issue with the laptop no longer achieving C7 or C8 when connected to my external monitor. I connect my Dell XPS 9550 via USB-C to Display port

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

How are you testing the stability of the system? For me some tests were stable up to -90 (Cinebench, Prime 95) but games with heavy cpy usage (GTAV, civ6, nms) would crash frequently.

 

Very few computers ever use package C9 or C10 while in Windows. I checked out the internal timers that monitor these just to make sure that they are working. I discovered that when my 8th Gen U laptop is in Modern Standby, the CPU is indeed using these deeper package C states.

Time for a new ThrottleStop feature. Check the box and the C States window will show you in the heading how long your last standby session was and how much time the CPU spent in package C8, C9 and C10. This new data might help troubleshoot some laptops that are using way too much of their battery when in modern standby mode.

 

My laptop has the 10900K but the option for 9 - 16 cores is greyed out for me, how do I change that?

 

Buy me a 10900K for development purposes and I will get to work on supporting Intel's 10 core CPUs.

I have no plans or money to buy a 10 core CPU so ThrottleStop only supports Intel CPUs with 8 cores or less.

 

What is the 9 - 16-core placement for though?