The ThrottleStop Guide

Ok, just wanted to ask if you will dig more?
The new feature you have provided is already doing what it should and removed TVB limit reason for me on 10875h, I need to do still some checks on 8565u and will report later. Which is great. What I can see is that this solved one thing more for me, so not only the TS bench does all things a bit faster but also, I was looking for a problem that was making my FS combined test score unstable once I had over 11k once 10300 once 10400 once 10800. And now it is doing only variation betwean 10850 and 11000 so it means that the score just differs from gpu temp not from hidden cpu throttle ****.

All best @unclewebb

 

Thanks for the clarification on the FIVR for the 11th gen CPU's turns out I won't need to use TS on my Stealth no throttling at all. Only bug (and don't worry about it) is it seems to trip to BDPROCHOT at the end of TS Bench even though there is no throttling and never comes close to the 95c limit.






A video for those who don't believe me that it doesn't throttle

" "

 

I advise you to set in option window to set prochot offset to 1(prochot will be 99C). MSI will shutdown when you will set it to 0 (PROCHOT 100C). Of course if it works for you on 11th gen?
You will gain a bit of performance. Of course the temp will be up to 99C but it does not matter as Intel cpus can run at 100C or even 105C without a problem. Most vendors set prochot lower than it should be. On Msi it is 95t and you can set it a bit higher, but Lenovo for example set it to **** value. I don't remember but something like **** 80C

Also enable speedshift and disable speedstep (this legacy that was changed into new speedshift) Speedshift value set to 0 for max performance and 255 for low performance.

BTW
This is how 8 core 16 thread 10th gen 10875H (bad bined 10980HK) should look like. This all thanks to liquid metal, well known msi bios tricks and mostly HEAVENLY GODLIKE THROTTLESTOP by @unclewebb





Power reports are misleading as I am using trick in bios that tricks CPU to report less wattage.
Real wats should be something like around 97-100W

 

I never turned throttlestop on because I don't need to, the power limits and temp limits are not an issue at all, thanks for the advice though. I was fully expecting there to be some throttling but this laptop can sustain 50w loads all day without any throttling. I still use TS on my dell inspiron though as its needed for sure.

I may end up repasting the CPU and GPU but since it's not hitting any limits it's pretty low on my priority list.

 

You have got prochot limit reason so there is a throttling related to temp. So once again I advice you to set the prochot offset in TS or by setting corresponding value to 1 in bios

 

Watch the video at the end, the prochot happened AFTER the benchmark was over and the cpu throttled down. It never hit 95c as the max temp was 90c which is why right from the beginning I said it was a bug. How can it be hitting prochot when it's not being fully loaded and is 5c short of prochot.

 

OK, But unlikely. If TS reports prochot it means that it was triggered anyway, Intel thermocuples have +-5C treshold, so it means that prochot 95 could be triggered even at 90C. Maybe not in this only one particular test but if you re run one by one test without cooling down cpu it might hit the wall faster.

At best you want to remove any type of throttle!

Also untick BDPROCHOT.

 

@Krzyslaw
I have managed to beat my score again by just setting it realtime. I want to tweak my ram settings too but for now I have noticed on bios and TS when i set all cores to 40 manually on all core load it only boosts to 3.9 why doesnt it go to 40 I have even enabled overclocking from msi advanced bios but it is still the same i think it can do 40 simply because i am not hitting power (i have set it to PL1 55W and PL2 90W) and thermal throttles.Is it the speedshift behavior do you know anything it is not important but just on my mind.

 

I found another throttling method. The Asus BIOS calls this V-Max Stress. Basically this one should only be triggered when the voltage is really high. I added reporting of this type of throttling as well as control of V-Max Stress to ThrottleStop. I needed to bump my 10850K up to the 53 multiplier so it will be easy to see this type of throttling.

With V-Max Stress checked in ThrottleStop, Limit Reasons show V-MAX glowing red and the multiplier is only at 52.



After clearing the FIVR V-Max Stress box, V-MAX throttling is gone and the multiplier goes up to 53X.
Good for a few more points in CPU-Z testing.



Anyone interested in this new feature?
Do I have to ask?

 

What CPU do you have? I think this is only possible on some of the 10th Gen CPUs. I know the 10850K allows you to set 8 different voltage values along the entire curve from 800 MHz to full speed. I am not sure if this also applies to the 10750H. I might add this feature if it works for the mobile 10th Gen CPUs.

Your video shows that it is PROCHOT that lights up just after the bench is over. At 2:12, THERMAL shows up in Limit Reasons and then 2 seconds later at 2:14, PROCHOT lights up red.

It looks like a sensor bug to me. The register location of the thermal sensor did not change from 10th Gen to 11th Gen. ThrottleStop is just reading the temperature sensor data from this register. Interesting that THERMAL lights up yellow at the exact moment that the TS Bench starts to reduce load. As soon as C0% drops under 100%, it changes. In the Options window, does PROCHOT Offset show the Lock icon?

Thanks for the video. I will have a closer look at this. I have never noticed any monitoring lag like this in previous CPU generations.

If you want to see some throttling, download Prime95, in the Options menu select Torture Test... and set it to Small FFTs 8 threads. That should warm the cores.

https://www.mersenne.org/

 

The scam is how they present it:
In reality TVB (Thermal Velocity boost) reduce the clock speed of the CPU when it reach a certain temperature (hot). But that doesn't help to increase sales. So what do they do? They present it differently. They lie to you and instead tell you: We will increase speed when your cpu runs very cool and reduce it to normal when it starts to get hot. They want you to focus on the word Turbo and boost and increase when in fact they reduce, criple performance based on temps.
I personnaly enjoy people like @Papusan who dislike this kind of strategy company uses to lie to us. I do not wish to live in a dream where everything is fine and perfect. I prefer reality and concentrate on fact. I also believe discussion should never be brought to a personnal level on this forum. Please respect.

 

What happens when a laptop functions exactly like intel says its turbo boost and TVB does? Then is it so bad. Again it's up to the OEM's to give a proper cooling solution and when that happens the maximum performance can be had with no throttling

 

Seems you don't understand how TVB works. None notebook manufacturers is able to make cooling good enough to avoid TVB throttling. Seee, they have programmed TVB to throttle at 50C as Dell. Not even within Intel's specs for TVB. If this was a reality we would see cooling that can keep the Cpu temp below 50 or in better case 70 degrees Celsius for desktop chips. Won't happen.

 

I can speak for my 10900K. Instead of increasing 1X my core speed, it reduces it. Exemple: Default clock speed for 10cores is 49X. Runiing it under stress gives me 48x after 50 60 or 70C (cannot tell for sure since it climbs so fast) . Not working as described i believe.

Edit: I am wrong about the CPU 10 cores speed. Apparently it is supposed to run 48X at 10 cores. In a way it proves that marketing succeded to get the customer confused.
But on the other hand i am still correct because if i set the clock speed to desire 47X. It will throttle at 46X after 70C. Thermal velocity throttlig boost

 

One problem with TVB is that it kicks in at too low a temperature. Some laptops have high idle temperatures of 60°C so TVB throttling will happen almost immediately. It is mostly a marketing trick. Intel likes creating buzz words to fool consumers. If they called this feature Thermal Velocity Throttling, consumers would not like that. The reality is that TVB is more of a throttling feature than a boost feature.

My Asus board plays a nice trick to cover up what is really going on. If I ask for a 50 multiplier and I also enable TVB + 1, in the background it quietly bumps the multiplier up to 51. When I reach Windows and see the 51 multiplier I am very happy that TVB is doing its magic. When the CPU heats up modestly, the multiplier drops to 50. You can say that TVB is working as intended but I feel like it is a bit of a sham. There is no legit reason to lower the CPU speed when it is only at 60°C or 70°C.

I was thinking that if someone likes this kind of feature, it would be a much better idea to set up two different profiles in ThrottleStop and then get ThrottleStop to switch profiles at 90°C to the slower profile. TSTT. ThrottleStop Thermal Throttling. The TS marketing department is not going to like that name.

Here is the new V-Max feature in action.



V_MAX throttling lights up in red and drops the CPU speed 100 MHz. It is throttling because it has determined that the voltage is too high. It is not that high. The VID voltage is only at 1.30V while testing with 16 threads of the TS Bench. A nice feature but once again, the trigger point has been set too conservatively. Not sure if my new Alienware friends need to toggle this one off but they might. At least TS users will be able to monitor for and adjust V-Max even if the BIOS does not give a user this option.

Edit - Here is an example of an 11th Gen 1185G7 doing some thermal throttling at 0:07 seconds into this video. ThrottleStop appears to be reporting things correctly. Power limit throttling happens later on.

 

Hey @unclewebb Not sure if this is a bug but the TPL profiles seem to not work for me - I'm assuming it's something to do with one of the Locks - unfortunately Lenovo's already locked the PL3 from boot so I can't unlock it. Is there any solution? I've alredy tried clearing ThrottleStop.ini and rebooting


PS we do love seeing CPU chugging along at 610MHz

 

Let me know if there is anything else 11th gen wise you need and I can help you out.

I loaded up furmark and did a test and there is "throttling" reported by TS however there is no drop in clock speeds, the only drop comes in when it switches from what I presume is PL2 limit down to PL1, it hits off prochot and thermal limits yet doesn't reduce it's clock speed?????? I"ve never had a laptop exhibit this behavior before these limits only happen in furmark.



Here is a picture I took after 25 minutes of playing Beam.ng as you can see no throttling to be seen.



So basically on a heavy load like Furmark I get a 4.0ghz all core turbo instead of 4.3ghz and it's only due to the PL1 limit. Gaming I never hit that limit.

The power limits in TS though show 200w, so that may also be a bug as well?

 

It did indeed make me feel warm and fuzzy inside to see a perfect 100. A bit like the hands on a clock not perfectly aligning with the numbers, it would irk me to see 99.76 or 98, etc. For informational/data purposes I can see a false 100 not being ideal. I’m just a gamer though

Also; 2 revisions of ThrottleStop in one day! Thanks again for your diligence @unclewebb !

 

ThrottleStop 9.2.9.4
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RSst-pVkucJVO8QvI7P8R3qkhr8kLhXL/view?usp=sharing

New Feature
- added Limit Reasons reporting and FIVR window control of V-Max Stress.

If two versions are good, three versions must be better. For people pushing their 10 core CPUs beyond the 50 multiplier, control of TVB and V-Max Stress could be useful features. It is the holidays. Might as well get some new TS features out into the wild while people have some time to do some testing.

Are we watching the same video? For the first 6 seconds, the CPU is fully loaded, Limit Reasons is not reporting any throttling and the multiplier is at the full 43.00. One second later, THERMAL lights up and the multiplier for every thread immediately starts to drop. This is thermal throttling. Your laptop continues to thermal throttle until at 1:14, PL1 lights up in red. Instead of thermal throttling lowering performance, now power limit throttling has taken over.

It looks like the manufacturer set both of these power limits to 200W. When you set the power limits sky high, it helps prevent any power limit throttling and it makes new owners feel good about their new laptop.

The problem is that there are 3 sets of turbo power limits. The CPU looks at all 3 sets and uses the lowest value it finds. When you were testing and PL1 was red, that means internally, your laptop was setting a long term turbo power limit of approximately 47W. Try checking the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box. If this box is checked and the power limits in ThrottleStop are set to 200W, that means the EC is forcing a 47W long term power limit on your laptop. This type of throttling can be triggered by anything and is close to impossible to override. You have to start looking at tricks like an unlocked BIOS and changing the IMON Slope variable.

Your laptop is performing great but if pushed hard enough, it will power limit throttle and thermal throttle like most every laptop on the market.

Edit - The other thing to be aware of is when using HWiNFO and Limit Reasons together, Limit Reasons will not work correctly. HWiNFO clears the throttling information out of the CPU faster than ThrottleStop can read it. If you want accurate Limit Reasons data, you need to exit HWiNFO.

This new feature is grayed out because it is a work in progress still. Not a bug. I just wanted to let users know that this long sought after feature has finally made it to the very top of the things to do list. The easy stuff is already finished.

 

I'm not overly worried, I can deal with a 300mhz drop in clock speed on what was supposed to be a 28w chip which runs at 4.0ghz under the hardest stress with a 45w power limit. otherwise it sits at 4.3ghz most times under load. I like the idea of a custom bios but for 300mhz I don't know if it's entirely worth it.

 

Not overly worried? Begin dropping up to 7.5% performance after the first second has ended...

Slaps forehead...

'Creative' finance reporting/marketing/bs is not how I buy platforms.

If only everyone stopped doing/believing in those lies...

 

Exactly. And with more added throttling features it won't be any better. And my " How Dell Cripple" thread will continue grow. Both in amount posts and Views.

 

Just because TVB throttling isn't kicking in on yours, doesn't mean that others should be immune to the problem as well. You wouldn't see the founder of Throttlestop work so hard on an issue that never existed. Even on my 10875H, I had no such problem in the first 5 days of purchasing the laptop, and all of a sudden on the 6th day, I saw this clock reduction, and it closely resembled TVB's behaviour i.e. -100 MHz reduction after 65C/70C and -200 MHz reduction post 85C. Now why it happened only after a few days, I have no idea. Perhaps some sort of an update sneaked through. So don't jump to conclusions so early. If yours isn't throttling, that is good news. But calling someone wrong just because your CPU works great and choosing to ignore the findings of others at the same time, that's not good.

 

I have just thought of a way to implement separate undervolt values for Idle vs Load on processors that do not have this feature.

My Processor is the i5 6300HQ (Skylake). Its max speed is 2.4GHz (non-turbo), or 2.8GHz (Turbo, 4 threads).

I found that my Undervolt setting for the processor is -175mV. However, under load, I can get it down to at least -195mV. However, the instant I stop Prime95, the system crashes.

I did some investigation here. I found this:

* If I start Prime95, processor speed goes up to 2.8GHz (Turbo).
* While at the highest speed, I can disable SpeedStep and Speed Shift, and it will stay locked at 2.4GHz (not Turbo) or 2.8GHz (Turbo).
* While locked at 2.4 / 2.8GHz, I can use the higher undervolt setting (-195mV), and stopping Prime95 will not crash.

Thus, I have an idea for how to implement a Two-Level Undervolt feature.

You need to be able to detect high usage, and then detect when CPU usage has gone low again.

If we detect High Use: (Maybe minimum of 5 seconds time)
* Lock the processor to high speed (Disable speedstep and speed shift)
* Make sure the speed lock has applied correctly
* Set more aggressive undervolt value

When the CPU Usage has gone low again: (Maybe minimum of 5 seconds time)
* Set less aggressive undervolt value
* Make sure the new undervolt value has applied correctly
* Unlock processor from high speed mode (Enable speedstep and speed shift)

Note that I haven't yet tested out this idea with AC Plugged In vs Unplugged, or sleep or hibernate modes.

 

Yeah not worried at all, you tell me where there is any more hidden performance that the OEM screwed up on with the MSI Stealth 15m.



Quite simply there is no performance robbing throttling performance at all.

 

Well because the adaptive voltage only applies to the curve it is not possible to change the curve although I have found in bios that there is intel curve and manufacturer curve maybe it could be different i havent tested it but you are right i can decrease the voltage even more under load but as soon as the encode is done i get bluescreen there is more to gain here

 

Great, next throttling limit can be disabled just by unticking the option in FIVR. This didn't show up in limit reasons for me but who knows what is sitting deep inside. But even tought it didn't show up I have unticked vmax limit in FIVR.

 

I think that 8750h has max all core boost at 3.9GHz. This is locked CPU so you can get few MHz more by modding me fw for rising bclk value. That is all you can do.

 

@unclewebb

I have tested TVB FIVR feature on 8565u. By default this option was enabled. I ran TS 120 bench and just after it was finished TVB lighted in yellow/red in limit reasons. When I unticked TVB in FIVR it was the same. Just after TS finished the bench TVB highlighted in yellow/red in limit reasons.

I came to the conclusion that maybe on 8th gen the bit might be different or MSI set the temp limit very low for 8th gen U CPUs?? What do you think.

On my 10th gen new feature works great and as it should, completly removing this limit reason.

 

Yeah the bclk is 99.767 instead of 100 but even on advanced bios the option is greyed out and i have no idea about ME FW do you have any recommended article about that and i have noticed that there is me reset button on the motherboard will that reset all bios options? if i fail to set good values

 

Write me what me fw version you have ( not me driver version but me fw, you can check this in bios)
And you can send me your full 16MB bios dump from fptw so I could take a look if it will be easy to do the bclk unlock or not.
Also if it will be possible, you will need very cheap ch341a programer. Also if you have pascal gpu (I think I saw you have gtx1060) I can ulock for you its TDP and power slider for msi afterburner, if you send me your vbios dump.
You can get around 15K gpu score in FS with unlocked tdp.
I had previously gtx1060 in the previous msi laptop that I recently sold. And I was able to hit 15,4k FS gpu scores with some oc.

 

Hello thanks for everything. These are my bios info and ME FW info.

Spoiler: Bios pictures

I dont know about fptw how to get it. Will AFUWINGUIx64 work for bios dump? And if it does with which options ticked. I am new at this sorry.

Vbios dump does gpu-z do it i know it has the option.

Is this the device that you have referred? What will it do? https://www.robiz.net/CH341AProgrammer

Yes i have GTX 1060 will the power delivery handle it the cpu is taking a lot and 180watt brick doesnt seem enough since when gaming i actually lose battery...

I am fascinated by the margin of tweaking and performance that these machines have and majority has no idea and manufacturers sell these so unoptimized.

 

If afu will create full 16MB it will be ok. You may need to disable bios lock within the bios for sure.

Yes this is ch341a programer. If you want also mod gpu you will need also 1.8V adapter.
Like in this Ali link:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_BUcAla

I had 7700hq with rised bclk to max avalible 102.98 value with 1060gtx ( i have flashed modded vbios with 200TDP limit but during FS it was using max around 150W less in games. By default it was 80W tdp.
With LM and higher end thermal pads on gpu power section with some fan curve tweaking there was no problem with it at all with such high power draw. I was using that modded gpu for over a 1.5 year without a problem even with OC. Dont remember temp but there were very good for the gpu modded to the desktop high oced territory.

But with power slider avalible in Afterburner you will be able to adjust tdp.

There was some battery draining, but this is like "super duper fantastic MSI LAPTOPS NOS feature" where if you need more power it will be delivered from bat.

For you I will set default tdp as 100W with 150W max.
In this way if you will want tdp at 80W you just move slider left by 20 if you will want for example 125W tdp you will move slider 25W right and so on.
But you will be able to adjust tdp to your needs.

Send me vbios dump from nvflash and afu dump if it will not be a full 8MB or 16MB ( I dont know size of your full dump) seek for fptw at winraid forum
In section with csme tools for me fw 12 version
Dump code for fptw would be fptw64 -d bios.bin or without 64 in cmd

As for bclk I can't make promises as I dont know if we will be able to make safe adjustments in me fw that were avalible in 7th gen cpus or lower. They have changed few things some time ago and I am still investigating me fw in 10th gen

Write me private msg so we will not be trashing TS thread with other stuff

 

Hence why you can lock the speed at the highest setting (by disabling speedstep and speed shift), and not get the bluescreen.

 

@Krzyslaw Yes I am writing a PM.

I have disabled speedstep and speedshift before but only run at stock 2.2Ghz

 

Hello Krzyslaw.

I have the same CPU what have you done about the Bios Trick that you have less wattage .
I will do this also .

 

I am not sure but could be imon slope setting you can search it

Basically you select negative (very important)and some number and the power usage will be lowered by that number so it will report and think less power is used and wont throttle

 

I would like to google ,Thank you

 

SET IN BIOS in Core I/A Domain
IMON OFFSET to -31999
IMON SLOPE to 50
PREFIX to -

This will remove power throttling if you had something like 100W your cpu will report that it uses only around 17W

 

OK COOL.Thanks a lot.Will Test soon

 

Just wanted to share, this feature is also present on my PowerSpec 1720/Clevo PB70EF-G. It is successfully disabled with ThrottleStop. However, given my CPU can't break 3.9GHz All Core Turbo or 4.1GHz Single Core Turbo I am not sure what it might limit? The CPU undervolt might have been enough for this throttling to never rear it's head.

 

Is it possible to lock the processor speed down to the minimum value? (800Mhz on mine) I'd like to do Prime95 stability testing at the lowest speed.

I see that disabling SpeedStep seems to set my processor to 2.4GHz (plus turbo boost), and the "Set Multiplier" command does nothing.

My BIOS has no options at all, so any suggestion that requires using the BIOS is out.

Edit: Figured it out.

Click TPL button. Set Minimum and Maximum value for SpeedShift both to 1. Then enable SpeedShift. The SpeedShift Min/Max settings seem to be the actual multipler control, rather than the "Set Multiplier" command seen on the main window.

 

@Papusan Thought you might be interested:

Today I learnt that my i5-10210U actually does have Intel TVB. It's just that it was so well hidden from me (the consumer) that I didn't realise until 11 months of owning my computer

According to the Intel datasheet, my 10210U will boost to a single core turbo of 4.2GHz. What it doesn't say, is that it only does this if the temperature is under 70 C. If the temperature is over 70C, the max single core turbo is only 4.1GHz.
Here's a temperature/Clock graph when doing the TS Bench single threaded benchmark with Speedshift EPP set to 0. For the first half, I manually turned off the fan until the CPU reached almost 80C. Then, I manually set it to 100% and saw the temperatures drop down to ~68C, below the 70C TVB threshold. The graph from TS log tells you the rest





In practice, a fully loaded single core 4.2GHz (Under 70C) is only achievable when the fan is manually set to 100%. By default, Lenovo's fan curve only sets the fan to about 40% when the CPU is above 70C. For the average consumer, it means that the 10210U will never ever reach 4.2GHz single core turbo unless for the first few seconds on a cold boot.

Interestingly, the all-core turbo of 3.9GHz applies regardless of temperature.

 

Thanks for the testing. But this did not come as a huge surprise

TVB on single core means higher voltage. The lower clock speed for all core boost means the opposite. They play the safe game. Be happy this Lenovo model is not as crippled as the Dell gaming flagship. TVB at 50 C would mean you never would see the promised land even within the few seconds window on a cold boot, LOOL

 

I usually go to the Intel ark site to find out what features a CPU supports. Thermal Velocity Boost is more popular in a wider range of 10th Gen CPUs.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...10210u-processor-6m-cache-up-to-4-20-ghz.html

Can you use ThrottleStop to disable Thermal Velocity Boost throttling in your 10210U? I am trying to fix all those saggy multiplier curves.

TS 9.2.9.4
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RSst-pVkucJVO8QvI7P8R3qkhr8kLhXL/view?usp=sharing

 

And what about TVB throttling in 8th gen u cpus?
For 8565u TVB throttling fix does not work.
Different bit maybe?
I can send you the list of the cpu msr like i did with 10th gen for you from this app you have sent me not so long ago?
How to start looking for it? Which msr in rw you were looking?

 

Hello @unclewebb
I can confirm that disabling TVB is working on my 10th gen i7 10750H (Legion 7i).
With TVB enabled I could see red flag in limit reason window and also my clock are stuck at 4.2GHz at best (tested via TS Bench).
With TVB disabled I gain another +100MHz for each core and TVB is marked as a yellow box - so I assume everything is working well.

 

I tried testing an 8550U last night. The CPU ran at its full rated speed at any temperature. TVB was not triggered in Limit Reasons and there was no throttling reported. The register is there. Perhaps the 8th Gen U does not report TVB throttling or perhaps this cannot be toggled on and off like you can do in newer processors. I will try to do some more testing but I cannot fix a problem if I cannot create it.

Does your 8565U throttle above 65°C or 70°C? Post some screenshots if you have a problem.

Thanks for confirming that. Do you have the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box checked? On the K series CPUs, checking that box can help unlock the maximum multiplier. On H series CPUs with a locked multiplier, this might not do anything. It will still lock the secondary power limits but the extra code hiding in there that helps the K series, might not do anything for the H or U series.

 

Yes, that checkbox is ticked up.
I could see ~100MHz more and TVB flag is yellow not red, so I think everything is working as it supose to do.

 

Thanks. Unfortunately ticking/unticking the TVB feature in TS FIVR doesn't seem to have an impact.


After 70C, the multiplier drops to 41 still. Disable and Lock Power Limits is active. I notice that in Limit Reasons, TVB is always yellow, but if I clear it, it instantly comes back - leading me to assume that it's being triggered for only a split second? It still applies when checking the "More Data" option.



Let me know if you need me test anything else.