Hp 8510 P - upgrade from hd2600 to firegl v 5600

double post... see post above

 

Not any , since I have F0.C bios installed.

 

@ samov

hmm, well looks like it didn´t work out. do you remember we had the very same conversation about the same issue some month ago on guru3d. well it seems it does not work without a patched driver.

 

Because they used detachable cards instead? Although I think it sounds more expensive.

 

i just looked they offer the 8510-w with the ati gl 5600 , $1449.00

 

yep, just have seen it. but has anyone seen this card yet ? it´s clearly stated on that chart, but nobody has this card yet.

AMD/ATI have not even listed this card, there was no word about releasing such a card. It´s more like a unicorn, that HP wanted to offer since the 8510w was released some month ago.

i am curious, if this card actually does exist.

 

Hello, I'm interested in installing fireGL drivers instead of HD2600's. Can someone tell me how to proceed ?

Thank You.

Franck

 

If 8510p was released with FireGL5600 it should have a higher price tag than the one with nVidia Quadro, shouldnt it?? Since according to some benchmarks that schoko showed us it kicks its ass in performance.

 

BTW. Schoko, when You had this FireGL driver installed, in SW was OpenGL mode forced (ticked and grayed out) straight away or not really?

 

it comes with a lesser csu , the t-7100 . i was suprised at the price . if it were on sale in december i would have grabbed it !! bit's the 8510-wnot p

 

Any possibility that the drivers be available for Vista?

 

http://www.atiplushp.com/FireGL07/ATI_FireGL_RockOn2007.pdf

some hint at the performance vs. nvidia cards, but doesn't prove the card was ever released...

 

ATI is kidding itself on this:

 

i've been tinkering with the 8510p and 8510w models...

I CAN NOT FIND ANYTHING that sets them apart.... the mainboard AND the video board are the SAME and have the same part numbers on both systems... HOW can this be...

SAME bios flashed on the same card with the same video card detect two different configurations.... THERE has to be something that sets them apart...

i mean... if an 8510w breaks you replace the motherboard with the same one on the 8510p BUT you get a w.... any input would be great...

 

you are paying for the certifications , vid carc etc

 

i know ... but the laptops are THE SAME... i'm trying to figure out what makes them go tic tac... can't seem to figure out what determines the p or the w

 

w is with nvidia graphic card that is a dedicated workstation gfx, while p has got ati gfx that is not a workstation one.

 

well... no... there is a w with an ati workstation card.... the v5600 which is in fact a HD2600...

 

@ samov

have you actually seen on of these mobilty firegls v5600 in the 8510w in the wild yet ?

hp has planned to offer them since the beginning, but there was no such card in the 8510w yet.i haven´t seen anyone owning this config yet. it´s more like a unicorn this mobility v5600.
i guess hp has dropped the idea or at least not yet released this card with their workstation model.
maybe we´ll see it someday, but for now we just can speculate........

as you should know the driver does choose which opengl capabilities it installs via the device id. since the device id´s are the same for both cards, it´s only the subsys id, that differs.

to make a driver distinguish between the cards i quite easy, namely the device id in the driver.inf is responsible for that.so either the cards device id´s differ though their video bios, or they have the same videobios, and the driver is choosing the correct card by the subsys id.

but to get the pro features they ( HP) must have patched the ati2mtag.sys to work with the device id 0x9581. , since this is the only dev_id in the driver that hp provided.
But HP has not done this, at least from what i can tell when looking at the ati2mtag.sy_ in ida pro.

so ergo this unicorn ( mobilty firegl v5600) does only exist on paper, but not in an actual config, or hp will have to provide a new driver for the card, as soon as it appears on the market.

but with the actual information ( the same video bios for both cards, the same device id´s for both cards, and no patched ati2matg.sys ) it is quite obivous, that this card is just some idea on the paper, that is prepared to enter the market, but that has not yet been released.

 

8510w with FireGLs are indeed in production and being shipped. The only problem is there isn't any difference to the regular 8510p. The individual graphics card module costs the same for the 8510p and 8510w with FireGL. This has always been the case since the days of the nx/nc/nw series. The Nvidia Quadro card configuration costs more than similar configs with the FireGL (about $200-$300 more), only because it's a better card.

As to how the motherboard detects the card, well the motherboard needs to flashed and have a system ID entered. If the system ID denotes an 8510w, I presume the ATI card will be recognised as a FireGL.

 

the part number for the video card is also the same... on both models...

i've yet to figure out the way hp makes them different...

 

marketing

 

if that´s the case, i guess very soon there will a an updated graphics driver for these cards.

you should take a deeper look into the ati drivers, technically the ati2mtag.sys must be patched to allow one card with the very same device id and different subsys id using the pro features.
right now with the provided driver from hp this is not the case.

you can easily check by exchanging the subsys id´s in the driver.inf.
you will be able to install the v5600m driver part by this procedure, but you will not get the pro features.

 

Well, i guess i have found the solution to this problem......

hp did actually patch the driver !!!

take a look at this pic : i compared the ati2mtag.sy_ from the hp driver and the ati driver ( both ver 8.391.2.1.1.1)



so all we need to do now expand these two files , and compare them.

the differences should be subsys id, that is already patched to the ati2mtag.sys.
by doing this, i think we can alter the required subsys id from 8510w to the one from 8510p, and were having a v5600 without needing to patch the drivers ourselves.
and maybe, maybe this will also be the solution for the vista driver, at least for the hp 8510 users.

 

Well done schoko!!! Can we count on You to pursue the matter ??

 

I did the same check a while ago on hp's drivers... comparing these two was super... they are almost identical and contain references to 9581 30DF and 30C5... backwards just like in the xp mod....

The problem is that HP uses normal radeon cards as Firegl's SO ati must have already patched the drivers for HP to get the firegls to work.

Take a look at the expanded atikmdag in the first two links:

original ati driver
http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/vista64/previous/firegl/firegl-8-391-2-1-1-1-vista64.html

HP driver marked 8.391.2.1.1.1 EXACTLY as the driver above.... these are really close
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsuppor...&swLang=8&taskId=135&swItem=ob-55280-1&mode=3

HP driver marked 8.391.2.1.1.1.2 later driver
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsuppor...&swLang=8&mode=2&taskId=135&swItem=ob-56984-1

 

it does not matter who has actually patched the drivers

fact is that the driver has been patched to use opengl pro features with the device id 9581 and the subsys id 30df.
all we need to do is exchange the subsys id !

you are long enough into this patching thing to know, that you just need to force the opengl pro capabilities, to work with a certain device id. in this case the subsys id seems to taken into account additionally.

that crosscheck needs to be done in the ati2matg.sys for xp and in the atikmdag.sys for vista. by exchanging the subsys id of the 8510w with the one from the 8510p will make the driver work.

 

Hello,

I really want to test it, I asked here for it two times, but you didn't answer. So, I renew my question : could you send it to me ?

Thanks

 

Conntact him by PM, that should help

 

really , i asked a while ago . forgot about it though .

 

must have slipped my eyes.
will patch the latest ati firegldriver v 8.44 for the hd2600 mobility tomorrow. was rockclimbing today and am a quite tired now. will send you a pm tomorrow.

best

 

thanks !! can't wait to test this out

 

i´m just uploading the driver, guess in around 30 min it will be done and i´ll send you the link.

fyi, for a few days now i have xp 64bit installed ( wiped 32bit) so i haven´t tested the if the driver i modded works correctly. i´m about 99 percent sure, but you´ll never know.

you should do some testing with the specviewperf 10 (32 bit, no multithread).
your results should look nearly as good as mine on the first page.

and another thing is the installation, be sure to read the first post on this thread concerning the driver installation. You will have to use the have disk method !!! --- install the driver manually !!!

after that you have two options :

1. install the control panel (cpanel) i was able to mod that too, so you will have the professional settings tab in there - but you will not have the power settings for the graphics card.

2. install the catalyst control center. you will not have the pro tab here, but you will be able to manage the powersettings for the card.

i recommend you to install the ccc, since you most likely will not need the pro settings. ( the pro settings actually are only profiles for some applications)

and be sure not to install the CCC and the cpanel. this will do some problems, and none of them will work.

have fun with your new firegl
or should i say : have fun with your HP 8510 W.....

 

Got it , can't wait to start using my 8510-w !

THANKS AGAIN 1

 

please report back, if the driver works. some specviewperf results would be nice.

btw. what opengl programs are you working with ?

 

Hello, thanks too.

I'll try it as soon as possible, and I'll run specviewperf.

 

no news on a vista version?

 

hi everyone,

Sorry to be so late, but coudnt test the drivers earlier. I have tested the ones Schoko send me specially patched for the HD2600XT for HP HDX notebooks. The driver work a while but, i got a Bluescreen massage und that some ati...sys is causing the problem. I had to format my Driver after that and now im using the standard drivers.
So is there a new driver you patched for HD2600XT schoko? I could try that one, hopefully this time it wont crash

 

Shocko i don't know if i'll test with SPEC as it is downloadig at 45k ! it will take 1125 minutes at this rate ! i wanted to test before and after , but if i can't get a good dl rate testing will not happen , sorry

 

Hi,

I also want to test the new drivers... got a 8510p t7500 HD2600pro 2GB XPpro 32bit
Can you send me the drivers schoko, so i can test them?
Is there a benefit for autocad users?

 

Hello,

I've installed the fireGL(Schoko) driver , I 've installed specviewperf10 too. But now what should I do to have results ? There are multiple choices in the specviewperf menu. Which one should I choose ? It seems to be very complicated for me.

Specviewperf10 or Specviewperf10 Multithread ?, or those with x64 ?

And after this choice, what should I run :

viewperf 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 ? (my display is 1600x1050)? Run 2threads, 4threads ?

What's the difference between run viewperf and run all tests ?

And last question : how much time does the test run ? I tried "run all test" yesterday but it was too long and I stopped it before the end because I needed my laptop.

 

That's the way to do it

 

Thanks. I did it. My results seem not to be so high as expected.

Viewset Composite Mulitsample Performance
3dsmax-04 27.24 up to 2x
catia-02 23.52 up to 0x
ensight-03 21.78 up to 0x
maya-02 102.87 up to 0x
proe-04 24.97 up to 2x
sw-01 56.62 up to 0x
tcvis-01 18.91 up to 2x
ugnx-01 18.18 up to 0x

 

I think the results are very good...

 

Frank what were your results prior to new drivers ?

 

I didn't test with ancient driver. So, I compared with schoko's results on the first page of this thread, and my results are a little bit under. That's why I wrote this results were not so high as expected.

But I 've got a T7100 with "only" 2GB ram. And schoko has a T7700 and 4GB. I ignore if these differences can make better graphic results, but I think so.

 

your results are not as high as you may have expected, because i oced my card a little bit. read my results a little closer.

anyway. the results only for the maya 02 bench are reading as follows :


specviewperf 10 results for maya-02:

HD2600pro: 31.31
HD2600XT: 32.45
HD2900XT: 39.31

HD2600pro@FireGL: 97.06
HD2600XT@FireGL: 145.67
HD2900XT@FireGL: 194.02


as for the difference between our cpu and ram - these don´t matter much. unlike the 3dmark benchmark, this opengl benchmark only cares for the actual viewport performance.

btw. your results are execellent, meaning the driver mod is ok.

have fun with your new v5600 mobile ;-)

 

schoko, can you give me the driver as well? i've allready asked it a few posts ago. Thx!

 

foa, i don´t know if you all have this problem too, but this forum is unbearably slow for me since a few days. takes about 2-4 minutes to load one page. already deleted history, cookies, cache, but its still slows my granny in a wheelchair.....

if it doesnt get faster, i will not answer very often, since it´s a pain to opne only one page.

and please don´t send me a pm, post here in this thread. it will take me about 10 minutes to open and read only 2 pm´s.

good question, i´m not 100 percent sure about autocad. what 3d mode does it use ? d3d, heidi, or opengl ? since this mod is for opengl graphics you will need to use opengl in your programs to feel the hardware acceleration.

if you have problems with your 8510p , this driver will not fix them.
do you have the latest bios for the 8510p installed ?
that one fixes several issues with the hd2600 graphics card. be sure to have installed the latest bios.

well, how come you did not give any feedback ? you wanted to test this driver badly, so i patched one with the device id of your card, modded the driver.inf and uploaded it.
you did not give any feedback. and now that i have another driver available you are telling of some bsod, and a reinstallation of your system. ?? strange eh.

don´t have the time now to patch the driver with the 0x09583 device id and upload it. maybe in the next days i´ll find some time......

 

driver works great. Autocad can use fireGL. I LOVE it!
I will also test it with 3ds MAX9 later, and with viewperf...

But i reached my downloadlimit, so it has to wait for a week.

ps. Games run well with this driver (can i say "even better"? )

res. 1024x768 cod2 dx7 textures high 2xAA anisotropic filter ==> 125fps constant! waaw

thx schoko