Hp 8510 P - upgrade from hd2600 to firegl v 5600

@schoko

Im really sorry that it looks like that i did a hit and run. But you can also see in this thread that i have posted several replies concerning on how to test the driver. I wanted to test the driver for SW2008 but there is now Spec for that available. I have downloaded the 2007 version and tested it, but during the process ive got a blue screen and some files were corrupted and i had to do a new installation. Since I needed my notebook for my MBA study i had to put on Vista again and thus couldnt post any results (driver doesnt work under Vista). So forgive my rudeness, but it is not as you thing it is
Hope you accept my apology

cya

 

Hi,

I also want to test the new drivers... got a 8510p t7500 HD2600pro 2GB XPpro 32bit
Can you send me the drivers schoko, so i can test them for Catia?

 

Viewpref 10.0 results t7500 2GB ram xp pro sp2
3dsmax-04 30.90
catia-02 29.64
ensight-03 22.77
maya-02 108.05
proe-04 27.87
sw-01 61.73
tcvis-01 20.31
ugnx-01 18.32

results are very good. everything very stable.

Tested with 3ds max 2008 and Autocad 2008

 

hi, any news for patching atikmdag.sy_ in the vista x64 hp driver with the subsystem id?

And schoko, you have a pm (and in guru3d pm and post in thread).

 

Please, tell me how to change the .inf file to get a firegl.

Thank you.

 

Hi!

I've got an 8510p (sweet machine) that I've set up with a dual boot Vista 64 and XP Pro 32. I'm in my last year of my engineering degree and I use Solidworks 2007 (soon 2008), Inventor 2008, Rhino 4.0 and 3DS Max 8 (soon 2009) frequently. And I'm keen on testing the FireGL hack.

I'm wondering if this "hack" will in any way modify my video bios or in other ways hamper a setup with Radeon 2600 drivers in Vista and the patched firegl drivers in XP?

I've not yet installed any video drivers on my XP partition in wait of modded firegl drivers (I vant the install to be as clean as possible.)

Btw. How does the 8.44 based drivers meassure up in games compared to the latest Radeon ones?

Any replies or links to 8.44-based drivers are received with gratitude.

T.

 

OK, guys, I'm REALLY keen on trying out these Firegl patced drivers, but in the meantime: I've done a 3D Mark 06 comparison which really puzzles me!

All 3D Mark settings to default (1280X1024).

Win Vista 64 setup: Aero interface
Win XP 32 setup: Zune theme

Computer:
HP 8510P, T7700 (2,4GHz), 4GB OCZ 5-5-5-15 PC6400, 160GB@5400.

Here are my results:
Win Vista 64 - HP drivers (8.391): 3112
Win XP 32 - HP drivers (8.391): 3295
Win XP 32 - Omega Drivers (Cat 7.12): 2939

edit:
NEW!! Win XP 32 - Schoko FireGL 5600 (8.44): 3302

Is it just me or should the Omega drivers performed better?

I am quite impressed at how good the HP drivers are. It seems that the FireGL Schoko driver does not weaken the gaming performance of the 2600.
/edit

T.

 

That is quite right. Test ATi drivers instead of Omega as they dont perform too good on this card for some reason.

 

Destiny. Great to see this thread isn't dead.. Just noticed this morning that my first post was the first in a week.

If you've got a link or any way of getting me the FireGL mod I'm all for benching it!

PS, sent you a PM..

T.

 

Hey guys. I am having a hard time getting a hold of those modded drivers, so I've decied to try to mod them myself.

As I understand it is possible to mod the HP drivers, no?

Changing the subsys ID in the INF poses no problem, but as I understand this is only half the solution, right?

The ati2mtag.sys has to be changed as well?

Now, I've expanded the file and searched for the subsys ID. As I come up with several results for both subsys IDs I recon the best thing to do is to compare the ati2mtag.sys form the 8510w package and the same file from the 8510p package, no?

I'll try finding som sort of hex-editor that will let me compare files, but please let me know if I'm on the right/wrong track here...

edit:
OK, guess I was on the wrong track.. I found the two files to be identical..

So, I,m back to square one, I guess...
/edit

edit:
D'oh!
I should have noticed that the package for 8510W is the same as the one for 8510P... (stupid me)
/edit

The HP drivers are 8.391.
If ANYONE has the patched 8.44-drivers for me I'll be extatic!!! (XP 32)

I can even put them up on my webspace for others to DL if it's OK with Schoko..

Cheers.
T.

 

sorry nakamoonin for not answering the last few days, will help you out tomorrow, when i´m back at home. if you can wait til then, i´ll upload the driver for xp 32.

 

Great!
Thanks mate!

 

If you havent got any new versions I will do it. Actually doing it now Hope you dont mind.

 

Got it, a million thanks to Schoko for the patch and Destiny for providing me the drivers.

Ill get on with the testing tomorow, as my 8510p is at school.

How does SpecWiewPerf work? Does it recognize all versions of f.ex 3ds Max, SolidWorks, Catia, Proe?

I have access to the following software:
- Catia V5R15 to V5R18
- SolidWorks 2003 and 2007 (2008 pirated)
- 3DS Max 7 and 8
- UGS NX (not sure which version)
- Autodesk Inventor (same as above)
- ProEngineer (same as above)

again, great work guys. Can't wait to test tomorrow..

T.

 

Me too, xp 32 and 64, please! Thank you.

 

nope, of course i don´t mind.

But i´m not quite sure what version i´ve supplied you with.
gotta go back in time in this thread. latest version for xp 32 is 8.44, for xp 64 it is 8.391.2.1.1.1

 

I only have the xp 32 bit one as I dont use 64 bit at the mo.
Ed_co, check your PM.

 

I am still waiting for specviewperf (18 hours more @ 8k/sec).

In the mean time: Is there a trick to get RealView working in SW2007?

It's greyed out even though the card is recognized as "FireGL 5600 (schoko)"..

:edit
Ah, Great!

Guess what..
Realview is only supported by 8.391.2.1.1.1 in XP32, XP64 and Vista32
8.44 is certified only for Vista64...

http://www.solidworks.com/pages/services/videocardtesting.html

well well I dont suppose anyone has the 8.391.2.1.1.1 patched as well, huh?

/edit

T.

 

I believe that the driver I uploaded what 8.391.2.1.1.1. That was the first driver schoko patched and that was the one I downloaded.

 

Thank you Destiny, and I hope that schoko could upload the 64 bit version and send us the link.

Greetings.

 

You are absolutely right... I guess the increased 3D Mark score can be attributed as a fluke..

However, it does not explain why RealView does not work in SolidWorks 2007..

Maybe because the driver is not digitally signed or because it is registered as 8.391.2.111 in the driver preferences?

T.

 

Ok, I think I got it!

I ran "SolidWorks Rx" which is a diagnosis tool. Here is my summary:

Code:

Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc. 
Card: ATI FireGL Mobility V5600(schoko) 
Driver: 6.14.10.6663
Check that your card/driver combination is on the list of tested drivers at:  http://www.solidworks.com/pages/services/VideoCardTesting.html 

6.14.10.6663 ???

should be

8.391.2.1.1.1, no??

 

Ok ifound out that the only file in the package that has this version number is the atioglx2.dll, which is the OpenGL driver...

When I checked the Link on the SolidWorks page it correctly identifies the certified 3D OpenGL driver as 6.14.10.6663.

This really puzzles me as this particular driver version is certified for SolidWorks 2006, 2007 and 2008..

Anyone have any ideas/workarounds?

Could it be because the card is recognized as "FireGL 5600(schoko)" instead of just "FireGL 5600" ??

Or the fact that the driver is not digitally signed?

 

I dont really know what that tool is so cant help you on that one. I will check if it works on mine though. Can you PM me or post a pic of the button or menu that I should be looking for??

Have you noticed any increase in performance in SW??

 

Very Good.

 

Ok, now I've tested:
- SolidWorks 2007 SP0.0
- SolidWorks 2007 SP2.2
- Autodesk Inventor Pro 2008
- 3D Studio Max 8

Of these only 3DS Max uses the driver without errors.

Inventor gives me this error message: "The specified driver is not certified by Autodesk, bla bla bla, you may not get optimum performance..."

SolidWorks can only use OpenGL afaik but grays out the "RealView" option under "View -> Display" However when i run the program "SolidWorks Rx, it tells me that my driver is the same that Solidworks indicate as certified.." The only thing i can imagine is that the card is recognized as "FireGL 5600(schoko)" instead of just "FireGL 5600"

There are no extra features to unlock in 3DS Max.

I guess I'll just have to wait to get SpecWievPerf to see if the results are what they should be.

If they are, I guess it is safe to assume that the drivers don't perform a 100% conversion from 2600HD to FireGL v 5600...

T.

 

The problem seems to be in software interperetation of a card id [name] and the driver. You got the same results with SW07 as I did.

 

Ok, I think I've got it...:

I found this on Guru3D: (link) http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=1632311#post1632311

It seems the PCI-ID is the culprit. SW2007 checks with the OS to identify the card, not the driver...

Would it help to change the card id to just "FireGL 5600" as I've proposed earlier or do we need to mod SW2007/Video Bios??

Anyone?

Just got an idea... is it possible to flash the 8510p with a 8510w bios and thereby change the Subsys ID?
That way we could use stock drivers and have a "true" FireGL..


T.

 

I dont know anybody that would have tried that I am not brave enough anyway you couldnt install normal drivers (Catalyst) if your system identified it as FireGL I guess.

Lets see what Schoko thinks. Anychance for getting the driver without (shoko) in its name?

 

To be honest, I fear the subsystem ID to be the culprit here. This means that we'd have to :

a) change the DeviceID in the videobios somehow
or
b) hack Solidworks and put our deviceID into the list of "approved" cards..

The reason i believe SW does this is to avoid updating a range of approved "videocards" as reported by the drivers, and instead focuses on the DeviceID, which, presumably, is an easier and more "foolproof" way.

Foolproof in the sense that its relatively easy to get a driver to report a different name, thereby opening up for "pro" features. Remember the Graphics card producer pays licencing fees to Dassault to be "certified".

It's a win-win situation for the Software developer and the producer of the certified card... Ca$h is king...

btw: i checked the bios update for 8510p and 8510w... they're the same, so I guess there must be an identifier (hardwired probably) that selects the correct version for the motherboard/videobios..

 

Hi guys,

I'm really interested to get this driver (I wrote PM to Shocko, but no answare ). At my firm we use 6 of these machines and restarts occures daily...
Now I'am trying mobility modder...

B:

 

Ive just started up the SW2008 under Vista...
I am working on modded Catalyst 8.3 and bloody h*** this thing is FAST! extreamly fast!
Looks like I am not going to need XP any more lol
and BTW RealView is working fine at least I think it is

 

Goto "View -> Display" in the menu,
Is there a golden orb beside the option called "RealView" or is it greyed out??

Are you using Vista 32 or 64 ??

If the drivers are for Vista 64 I'm keen on trying them..

@ Destiny: (OT)What software do you use to OC your card, and have you changed the Thermal paste? (/OT)
@ Boca.. Sent you a PM with link...

T.

 

In Sw08 you have it on ther right hand side as well and it is not greyed out and I can apply different types of material to parts. But when I go to Display it is greyed out. I thought it was working

Im on Vista 32bit.
You should have received your drivers dvd with the machine.
You can only use AMD GPU Clock to o/c the card. Nothig else works. No change of thermal paste. Im going to clean mine though quite soon.

 

I know it's been a while but finally Specviewperf is downloaded.

Set up:
HP Compaq 8510p
4 GB OCZ DDR2 6400 (5-5-5-15)
T7700 (2.4 GHz)
ATI Radeon 2600HD w/Schoko drivers (8.391.2.1.1.1)
Windows XP 32

Stock clocks on everything (500/600, 2.4GHz, 667)

Here are the results from specviewperf10:

3dsmax-04 32.31
catia-02 30.73
ensight-03 23.22
maya-02 108.03
proe-04 28.95
sw-01 64.77
tcvis-01 20.11
ugnx-01 18.18

Needless to say, I am quite happy with the scores
So the drivers work, but the RealView is still a no-show.

I am checking around to see if I can get a hint on where to find the "list" of approved cards.

I mean, it COULD be as easy as a name change in the driver, but i seriously doubt it. (reasons in earlier post)

@ destiny: I was talking about FireGL-modded drivers. Where did you get those? Did Schoko make them? (I guess you are not running stock drivers, right?) Are they available for Vista 64 as well?

 

I dont use fire gl drivers on vista I am gaming a lot and it wouldnt be wise Drivers I use are normal catalyst modded with the ModTool to get them working on mobile gpu's.

 

Schoko, please upload xp32 a xp64 driver. And any news for Vista 64? (maybe patching the subsystem ID on the original HP drivers).

Thank you.

 

Hi, i also want to mod my 8510p to a CAD workstation. I need the xp32 driver.
Schoko, can you send me a private msg oder someone else?
That`s will be great...

Regards...

 

haven´t been around for a few days. i have so much work to do right now, so i do not have a lot of spare time. quite a lot has happened the recent days. will have to do some reading in this thread.

atm. i´m uploading the xp 64 driver ( 8.391.2.1.1.1), will provide the link later this evening.

 

driver is uploaded.

will send pm to everyone that is interested in the xp 64 driver.

 

@ Lasaruze: Check your PM..

@ Destiny: How does the modded Catalyst drivers compare in 3D Mark 2006/games compared to the schoko and/or stock(HP) drivers? And how are your Specviewperf scores with modded Catalyst?

@ Schoko/Destiny: How are things coming along with regards to drivers for Vista 64 (8.44)? Do we need to wait for HP to release a version of the 8.44?

@ all:
Please don't do hit and runs. Experiences, benchmark results, etc. are greatly appreciated. Please share!


Here are my experiences:
3DS Max 8 / 3DS Max 2008:
I've used the drives with 3DS Max 8 and I guess I haven't pushed them to the limit yet.

In OpenGL-mode with XP 32 and schoko drivers there is a performance gain over 3DS Max 2008 in Direct3D-mode on Vista 64 with stock drivers, but not anything I notice except in special occations (lots of hair/trees). In OpenGL-mode the stock drivers are barely usable, but this is a known problem with ATI cards (not FireGL).

Solid Works 2007/2008:
As I run Vista 64 i haven't gotten SolidWorks to work for me... I am waiting for 2008 SP3.1.

In XP 32 the driver works great with SW2007. Large assemblies are not a problem and the dreaded "3 parts open"-problem I had with my old ASUS M6N (1.5GHz Centrino, 1.5GB Ram, Radeon 9600 (64MB) ) is gone. As SolidWorks ONLY uses OpenGL, the improvements are huge, but RealView is still disabled (see earlier post on why).

Autodesk Inventor 2008:
Does not recognize the drivers. Specviewperf indicates that they are working on OpenGL, so I guess I just have to play around with the settings a bit.

Catia V5R17:
Not installed yet..

Games:
I am not seeing a hell of a lot of difference between my Vista 64 on stock and XP 32 on schoko-drivers. What I noticed when running 3D Mark 2006 in XP was that the score was about the same on both drivers (stock/Schoko), but that the demo looked more "fluid" on the stock drivers. I guess this is the same as saying that the average framerate was about the same, but that the min FPS is lower on the Schoko-drivers.. Just an observation, don't take my word for it..
In Vista 64 the score is about 10% lower than in XP.

GRAW 2: Choppy in 1280x720 with recomended (stock?) settings. Performance improves a LOT when dynamic lighting and dynamic shadows are turned off. Running 8xAniso.

COD 4: Haven't gotten it to work yet... Huge problems on Vista 64.

Will test in near future:
- GTA San Andreas
- HL2 + Ep One + Lost Coast

Might test in near future:
- Crysis

That's all for now.
T.

 

you should know that the 8.44 driver package contains the directx files from catalyst 7.12. since then some improvement has been made concerning the gaming performance. this performance gain is not much, but it´s noticable.
when you use the 8.391.2.1.1.1, the directx files from cat 7.7 are included. that was july 2007, meaning there is not hotfix for crysis and other games. gaming is not that good with this driver.

don´t have time for that right now, since i´ve got to work a lot atm. not much sparetime for me. and the time i have left for me , i certainly don´t waste alone in my room.

see above, since the driverpackage 8.44 is from december 2007, some improvements in the ati drivers have been made. typically there is / was a 300 point gap in 3dmark06 between xp and vista for the equivalent drivers.
right now you are using an old xp driver versus a newer vista driver, that might be the reason why performance is about the same.

there might be a workaround. or two ?
if you have taken a closer look at the driver downloads at Hp you will find some interesting package that is only offered for the HP8510W ( yep, the one with the FGL 5600).
the package is called system default settings, and it does some interesting change to the device id for windows :

the hd 2600 is carrying the 0x9581 by default
after installing the system default settings the driver is still using the patched atim2tag.sys ( 0x9581), while the OS shows 0x9583.


0x9583 is the device id of the hd 2600 xt. strange thing. but since this is possible, it seems possible to use this patch to enter a device id that will allow enabling the realview feature.

a list of ati´s device id´s can be found here : http://ati.amd.com/developer/vendorid.html

another possiblity to get the realview option is to edit the solidworks module that asks for this specific device id. since i don´t use solidworks, you might go hunting yourself.

see above....

 

Good observation... I will look into it. I have looked into it, and the packages called "system default settings" for 8510p and 8510w for Vista are identical. The same goes for XP... Strange. I haven't checked XP64, because there is no option on the driverpages for 8510p for XP64. Maybe they have "upgraded" the card since I bought it.

I will DL and install to see what i get.
Right now my card is identified as 9581 which suggests Mobility Radeon HD 2600.

9583 corresponds to Mobility Radeon HD 2600XT as Schoko said.
958C corresponds to FireGL V5600 (not mobility...)

FireGL V5600 is based on RV630GL core
Mobility Radeon HD 2600 is bsed on M76 core

There is no mention of MOBILITY FireGL V5600 on the AMD pages.. Strange, but there has not been released a Mobility FireGL card on the M76 core yet and it is safe to asume that there will be one. Mobility FireGL V5600 sounds about right.. Is this a sneak-peek or did HP "invent" this card??.. hehe. The only portable workstation for sale with this mystery card is in fact the HP Compaq 8510w.

I've already been looking around, but not found anything worthwhile.. I'll keep searching

As for the drivers, the HP ones are acually 8.383.1.1200 for Vista 64... So they are even older thanthe Vista/XP ones (8.391.2.1.1.1) I guess I'll just wait for HP to publish the new drivers for Vista64 (8.44). I guess they have to as the current ones are not supported by SolidWorks.


Just checked ati.amd.com: The 8.442 for Vista 64 was released 16 of April.. 4 days ago. Might be a while until we see them on hp.com.

Great work on the drivers and the discovery of the pacthing of the deviceID!! I will look into it.

 

it works - perfekt!!! THX to all - Special THX to schoko!!!

 

Can we have more details Lazaruse??

 

I will do some more benchmarks on weekend and will post the results, that's ok?

 

No problem. I was just wondering what did you mean that it works perfect ??

 

In another inappropriate forum...

So, do you have the same unknown device? or, could you solve it?

 

Who uses hibernation these days

 

I use invernation .

Good news, mobility tool, now supports mobility firegl v5600 (I requested him, few time ago, and now have it ).