E14 : Trackpad Discussion Only

That's not true, because if your finger is on the bottom of the pad, you can click anywhere and it registers.

Anyways, does envypad or any software allow me make the button area a deadzone, so I could use it only for clicking?

 

No, unfortunately, it's been said many times that deadzones are impossible with the current SDK because we can't detect each finger's location.

 

I would like to personally thank all those who created the software. It's been a tremendous help. I cannot use my trackpad without, which is sad given that it's a $2,000-plus machine. I should not have to run software every time I turn on my computer just so I can use the pad. It's almost impossible to believe the demonstration video for the two-finger scroll. It most certainly doesn't work that way or that well.

 

I appreciate the reply and am sorry for asking a repeated question, it's just difficult to go through 50 pages when you're new here

Thanks for the software you guys have made, it is quite an improvement over the default drivers.

 

I would actually say it can be solved with new drivers and/or a new SDK that can track whenever the pad is depressed and where the fingers are.

 

Does anybody know a way to set the pointer speed differently for the mouse and trackpad?

 

Obviously, but considering the botched job Synaptics did, I'm not holding my breath on either.

 

Has anyone else ever had the pad stop pressing down? That happens to me sometimes. When you click the buttons, it feels no different from the rest of the pad, and sometimes they stop functioning as buttons.

 

Anyone noticed a significant decrease in battery life after installing one of the programs and touchpad locker?? Batterybar has dropped about 40minutes from max life and it seemed about the same time i installed the new software.

Also none of the settings being controlled by the new envytouchpad software work with firefox??

 

Ive been using the software for the life of my computer so I have nothing to compare against, but have you actually done a real personally timed test of your battery?

Battery bar is not accurate for me.

 

I just got new 15.1.6.64 syaptics drivers from Windows Update. Im gunna turn off reil's app and see if I notice a difference.

Off the bat I notice different palm check settings. Still not good enough to use without an external app IMO.

I also couldnt activate 2 finger scroll through the settings because they were greyed out.

Now Im noticing the pointer not responding. It may have something to do with the palm check settings because its working better after turning off the advanced settings.

 

i'm noticing weird issues with friendlyfire's where it stops noticing I have my finger on the pad (happens if I move the cursor to the top of the screen)

can't move the cursor anymore.

I shouldn't of updated.

 

I have no such problem :/

I updated the drivers, too.

 

*tries it again when it's not 3 am*

it's apparently user error.

somehow I'm making it click as I'm moving the cursor around. whelp. I'll just use a lighter touch

 

reil. I tried working with the source code to your program to try to chang a few things (I barely know anything about programming; just a tiny bit of C writing console program), but I cant compile in VS. Is it because I need the SDK to do so?

I was trying to work on something that only allows for 1 3 finger flick, and only allows for it in the main direction. I find myself activating "left flick" and "down flick" both sometimes. And I was also gunna look into getting it so the pointer doesnt move after two finger scroling. Right now it jumps in the direction you scroll after you lift your fingers.

 

I've been having issues after the update. I use Reils for 2-finger school, and since updating Synaptics it's been a little screwy.

 

I thin it's the new palm check stuff.

if it's not like the end of your finger and instead something longer is touching the trackpad, it doesn't register anymore.

finger vertical: no issues. finger horizontal and swiping the whole thing: stops working after a moment if it does anything at all.

 

I still say these are the worst trackpads I have ever used. They stop depressing and become unresponsive, requiring me to disable and fight to re-enable the trackpad. I genuinely miss my dv6000 trackpad, which had dedicated buttons and the designated scrolling region off to the side. It was precise, accurate and simple. I hope Apple doesn't dream up a way to place a trackpad on the bottom of the machine. We're all doomed.

 

My trackpad seems physically solid, but I do agree that it's the most disappointing and negative aspect of my E14 BE. I love the machine's look, performance, solid build, keyboard, and even the screen (Brightview but good enough). But man, the trackpad is frustrating beyond words.

The worst thing is when trying to do a simple but long text selection, and the left-click-hold selection JUST... WON'T... WORK. It gets stuck, and the cursor won't move at all. It's so bad that my wife absolutely hates using the notebook. Nothing like hearing your wife complain about something she didn't want you spending your money on in the first place.

I'm wondering why HP keeps putting this trackpad on every higher-end system they make. I'm sure they've received enough complaints about it. Maybe they think Synaptics will eventually provide drivers that work?

 

They keep doing it because Apple has won HP's attention in a big way. They don't want to give up on the gimmick. And you are right about the cursor's refusal to move. That really irked me yesterday. I get so peeved when I go to cafe and forget my mouse.

 

Has anyone made an application for Linux? Thanks!

 

I just wanted to join in on the dicussion bashing the track pad which doesn't work for selecting text or using scroll bars. It's just beyond horrible. Any remotely competent company would fix this, but not HP.

 

you need the synaptics SDK and then you need to modify the project settings to point at the lib and include paths and also add a path for the linker. i think these are all the changes, but i don't quite remember. it won't build and say something is missing if i forgot something.

under the VC++ directories, update the include and library dir to point at the SDK include and lib directories.

update the linker > input to include the lib files under additional dependencies.

i don't understand what you're trying to do, if you try explaining it again, i may be able to give some advice.

 

why is this HP's fault? the pad, drivers and app are all synaptics. also, if you're willing to live with tapping, it becomes highly usable.

 

Thanks, Ill try it again when I get some free time. Maybe over my Thanksgiving break.

What I was trying to do was to lock the pointer when doing 2 finger scrolling. Currently after 2 finger scrolling and lifting both fingers, the pointer will jump a little bit in the direction you scrolled. The problem with that is that after several scrolls the pointer will often not be over the window any more and will need to be repositioned to keep scrolling.
-I dont really have an idea of how I was going to go about that since I think it would take a lot of time going over your code to see how to "lock" it from moving after scrolling sometimes.

I was also going to try to keep the 3 finger actions limited to only 1 action per 3 finger swipe. Currently if you do a diagonal you can accidentally enable both directional actions and if you have the minimum distances set low enough yo can perform 2 actions by swiping too far.
-I was thinking about looking at the delta x, versus delta y and seeing if the scrolling algorithm could be applied in some manner and also put a limit on the number of actions that can be performed per swipe.

 

good luck trying to lock the pad. there already is code that tries to do that, look for places where it acquires the touchpad object. also, i think it tries to remember cursor pos and sets it at the end (GetCursorPos/SetCursorPos).

when 3 finger swiping only supported back/forward, it did only 1 action per swipe. i removed it because it doesn't really work well if you are alt+tabbing with the 3 finger scroll. which actions do you want to apply this logic to? the unpaired actions?

 

Because HP has to have been deluged with criticism and does not continue with these pads at gunpoint

 

i actually prefer this touchpad over my older laptop (some gateway) with physical buttons and a scrolling region. i also prefer it to my work macbook (from 2008).

if you are willing to learn to interact with the system differently than you're accustomed to, it can be very usable. double tap to drag is amazingly useful. especially if you can do two finger double tap and drag to do gestures. two finger scroll w/ inertial scrolling is fun. i don't know how long i spent just scrolling around random stuff.

so i don't agree with your blanket statement.

 

Mike415,

here's a newer build for you to try. i haven't done a lot of testing but it seems to do what you want for some of the 3 finger scroll stuff. i can't fix your two finger scroll cursor moving as i already tried to do what you were trying to since i first wrote the program and i don't know how to make it better.

once i've tested this further, i'll replace the other uploaded version. i don't want to do that yet since i'm not sure if i broke anything. which given how often i work on this program, may be a long time away...

changes:
-certain actions will only occur once when you remove your fingers from the pad. the actions are all of the unpaired actions (x button 1/2, win+tilde).
-once an action is triggered on an axis, it cannot trigger the action on the other axis, e.g. if you cause a x axis action to be triggered, the y axis actions can't be triggered. this will reset when you remove your fingers from the pad.

 

I guess you wouldn't, since a blanket statement pretends to speak for everyone. There is no blanket statement. Someone asked how HP could be at fault for the problems with pads it placed on its own computers, and I answered that and guessed HP has noticed the torrent of professional reviews that criticized the pad. I also used this forum, where people are using amateur software to make it work more like it's supposed to, as a basis for that. To you, using the pad is a credit to HP. Believe it or not, you are not the first person I have seen praise the pad. One thing is for sure: HP is responsible for using and retaining it without addressing the concerns that were in question, whether one sees that as bad or good.

I have learned to interact with the pad, which sometimes becomes unresponsive and refuses to depress. Like others, I turned to amateur software, which fixes everything but that. You shouldn't assume that because someone dislikes something "new," it's fear of change or refusal to try it. I hate the pad because I DID try it. I'm using it right now as it fluctuates between depressing and holding totally firm. And, although I don't care for the MacBook Pro pad, either, it does work MUCH better. You are right if you have inferred that I still would prefer a traditional trackpad if this one were working correctly, but it isn't anyway.

 

the way you write makes it seem like more people hate the touchpad than not, which i'm not convinced of.

also, you act like HP designs, manufactures and writes software for the touchpad in the laptop. they just buy the hardware for the touchpad from alps or synaptics. HP just seems to be using the latest iteration of the synaptics hardware available at the time of integration. if you look at what software you're using for the synaptics pad, its highly likely to be directly from them, packaged in a HP installer.

now can synaptics write better software? they definately could. i would say the difference between a macbook and the synaptics is mostly software. apple spends a lot of time of ux while the synaptics stuff seems kinda cobbled together. based on some of the stuff in the synaptics software, this touchpad is capable of a lot of things, if only they would write better software for it.

i would recommend that you use tapping over clicking. the touchpad does crazy stuff when clicking. if you use tapping, its a lot better. the only time i use clicking is because UAC doesn't allow software that mimics keyboard and mouse actions.

if you hate it so much, why not return it and buy something else? i don't see the point in keeping a product you hate. if i didn't like it, i'd have returned it a while ago. consumers should vote with their wallets, if HP saw no one was buying any envy laptops, they would probably spend more time trying to fix it. based on this forum, a lot of people seem happy with the envies.

 

Great update. It has the 3 finger acting as I was hoping it would.

Considering I use this program constantly I should be able to tell pretty quickly if anything is wrong with this build.

 

You should have reached the conclusion that I believe HP is responsible for what it uses and that I believe criticism is frequent, which was actually the lesser point since the two posts I responded to acknowledged the issues people are having. I don't conduct polls to determine majorities, nor am I interested in that. I honestly don't believe that much needs to be known to argue that a product's shortcomings should be addressed or, more precisely, that a company is responsible for what it includes in its products. That is the statement in my post, with which you professed to disagree. Your post read to me as if your personal fondness warranted dismissing the notion that they were frequently criticized and/or should be addressed, and although I'd hardly lose sleep over disagreement on a trackpad, I have to say I don't see how that undermines or even relates directly to what I said or responded to. You like yours, and that's fine if unrelated to the main point.

I don't care to convince anyone the trackpad is flawed, except perhaps HP, which I already brought it up to when I considered returning my laptop for unrelated servicing and in my recent survey.

No, I don't. You read too much into a two-sentence post, and now I act like HP wrote the touchpad software. I said HP didn't use the pads at gunpoint, an obvious metaphor for choice and NOT one of creation. Perhaps you are not paying attention to post authors. Pretending a computer manufacturer is not responsible for what it uses is like pretending a cook has no say over what brands to use in a pizza or that a bar has no say in what liquor brands it provides. I'm sure that if we followed that logic, we could divorce HP from everything.

I don't apologize for coming to an HP forum to talk about an HP computer. That would be as empty as my suggesting that you were out of place for praising a trackpad on this forum. All the praise must be specifically and exclusively linked to Synaptic. That this thread exists should tell you that you're setting yourself up for needless frustration if you don't want to see HP (even implicitly) criticized for the choices it makes on this issue.

I frankly don't care where the software comes from as long as it works right. I bought my computer from HP. If the BD-ROM drive stops working, I will call HP. If my hard drive suddenly fails, I will call HP. If my screen has bad viewing angles, I will fault HP for using it. If my computer experience is lovely, I will praise and recommend HP and not just the people it bought the hardware and software from. If non-Sony parts keep failing in new Sony TVs, people will understandably fault Sony. If the TVs run fabulously, people will praise Sony. It works both ways.

To be honest with you, if I could get the trackpad to work as well as a MacBook Pro's, I would probably be silent altogether. Although even this trackpad is a bit big to me, it's not as big as that, which I find awkward. Plus, there is ample space between the pad and the edge of the notebook, which is not true of the Pro 13.

I love the notebook; I just hate the trackpad. If I had my way, I would doubtless choose my standard trackpad. What is useful or usable to some is less so to others, but what plainly malfunctions is another matter. HP should see to it that future generations work more like the demonstrations right out the box. I'm just glad I care enough about computers to go to sites like this; otherwise, I would probably have a MacBook Pro or Vaio in production and a refund from HP. I take that back. I probably would've assumed it was just mine and requested repair first.

I know the pads could be better, though it's nice of you to state that. Each and every time mine stops depressing or responding altogether, I am keenly aware of at least that much.

 

so i come from a background of building desktops and fixing other people's computers, so the only times i really fault the OEM is for skimping out on some components, putting incompatible components together, or using proprietary components.

in this case, HP seems to be using the top of the line touchpad from synaptics instead of a older model and i can't fault HP for that. i can blame synaptics for releasing sucky software and an impotent SDK. what alternative manufacturers are there? alps? thats not too much better. i'm just happy manufacturers are trying to try new things (albeit copied from apple) instead of using the same old trackpad design.

i actually do pay attention to post authors, but some of the stuff you write isn't easy to understand.

i've also been part of this thread for awhile and i am not needlessly frustrated nor am i getting frustrated. the point of this thread was about making the touchpad experience better and i was happy to see adam and friendly0fire take the time to develop their software (along with the original devs of two-finger-scroll). complaints about the sucky experience when clicking have been minor since no one can do anything about it except synaptics. so its either cope, learn to tap, or return the laptop when it comes to clicking.

anyway this seems like a futile exercise. i'll go back to lurking until someone posts some feature requests that sound interesting and doesn't involve a keyboard hook.

 

Reil, you may come from a background of building and fixing computers, and while that is admirable, you should not impose that rare perspective on consumers. I am sure that you have complained about a product that malfunctioned or functioned improperly before without waiting to find out who made the part that screwed yours and that of many others up. There is nothing irrational about that. Your background would cause you to think more about specific part vendors, as you actually know what it's like to have choice there and have perhaps even been criticized yourself for choices the consumer didn't like.

 

Reil, nice work on the touchpad. Two-finger scroll was working much better after using envyTouchPad, at least until I updated the Synaptics drivers.

I pretty much have it working how I want now. Is it possible to use 3 fingers to act as a click+drag? Then I could bypass having to use the buttons at all. I tried the turning on click-lock with Synaptics, but I didn't like it to well.

 

Oops, think i've got Reil's app installed twice, which is causing weird problems. How can i remove it properly?

 

Quick question, when I two-finger scroll, the page skips around vertically often. Do you guys have the same issue? Does anyone know what settings could be causing this?

Synaptics v7.4
EnvyTouchpad - can't find version number.


thanks,
-b

 

To answer my own question, I think I found the culprit. I had the Synaptics option to enable two-finger scroll checked. Unchecking that in the OEM driver seems to have solved the issue. If it does not "stay" fixed, I'll post back.


-b

 

That used to happen to me on reil's program alot, but then it just started happening less and less and I havent noticed it for a while.

It could have been driver updates or BIOS updates. Or maybe pulling the power/battery and holding down the power button for a while and resetting.

 

I had the same problem. I just disabled two-finger scrolling in the Synaptics settings, and it's working much smoother now with Reil's app.

 

hi. does the reil trackpad program have inertial scrolling? how does the 2 finger scroll compare to the macbook pro trackpad scrolling? thx

 

Yes it does.

2 finger scroll is pretty close. I use the easeInQuad

 

THAT'S what I meant to ask! What easing algorithm have people settled on? Ha.
I can't tell the difference between them to be honest, with a duration of about 250. Any more info on these, reil? Which one do you use?

...and yes, everyone should learn to tap! I love the Envy 14 trackpad with envy TouchPad.

 

A lot are similar/same I think, but I like the gradual to nothing over the slow -> abrupt "snap stop.

I also have mine at 900, I figure if Im using momentum it's to get far in the page anyways.

 

Well, well, well!

A Windows update just rolled in and fixed my Envy 14 touchpad. Just like that. There now seems to be a new section in the Synaptics setting box (or maybe I just didn't notice it before):

Palm-Check Enhanced ACM / Enhanced Filters / Filter Activation Time--set to "0"

and

Palm-Check Enhanced ACM / Enhanced Filters / Starting Zone Size--exclude the bottom left-and right-click zones from the "Starting Zone". I also excluded the extreme right border so I can scroll there without ambiguity.

Works for me--no more flying cursor when thumb is resting on left-click zone.

Hope it's good for you.
T.

 

yeah. the update's nice. I haven't messed with it much.


it also stops you from fat fingering things. you can't scroll the cursor if you don't use the point of your finger

 

they're all described here.

he has a visualizer. i think i reversed the x axis in my code.

when i use this, the x axis is time and y axis is % of last scroll movement (between 0-1). the total time is configurable and broken down into 25 (i think, i did this a while back so can't remember) iterations. then it multiplies this by the last scroll movement and calls scroll again.

with an interval of 250ms, you probably won't notice a difference. with longer intervals of 600+ms, there's definitely a difference.

my scroll settings are:
speed=125
acceleration=20
delta ratio threshold=50
easing algorithm=easeOutSine
inertial duration=600

though to be honest, the inertial scrolling is a gimmick. it makes sense on an iphone because of the limited space and the inability to go to the end of the page. on a laptop, i'd rather have acceleration. with chrome, if i scroll slowly, it moves pixel by pixel and if i move faster, it will move pages, which is how i prefer it. i rarely use inertial scrolling since the times i would use it, i can use the home/end keys.

 

I dont use any gestures and I got used to the trackpad and its not bad to use at all anymore. Just a slight learning curve.

 

The new update makes two finger scrolling much much better but still not quite as good as reils. Also theres no way to enable two finger tap for right click (unless I'm mistaken) which makes it a deal breaker for me. But at least they are making progress!