HP Envy 15? i7 meets 4830+15" screen!

nice observation but i hope your wrong

 

I'd like to see you prove this. Secondly, even if DDR3 was 50% slower, that wouldn't translate to nearly that much difference in terms of GPU performance.

 

I am not going to debate DDR vs GDDR here, as there are tons of resources on the web.

All I'm going to say is that the 4830 will be severely crippled if it uses DDR memory instead of GDDR.

What's the point in having a 4830? They could have gone with one of the newer GPU's that use GDDR5 and it would have be better, IMO.

 

So...Would there be much difference between the ati mobility 4670 in the sxps 16 and the 4830 thats in the Envy 15? The 4670 uses GDDR? That correct?

 

Right it uses GDDR3. Is it confirmed that the E15 uses DDR3?

 

Yeah I was hoping they'd put a 4860 in there with GDDR5. Who knows, maybe that'll still be an option for a higher end configuration. The key thing for the envy 15 was making sure there were 40nm GPU's in there I think.

 

Yes, it is a shame that the GPU will not be the 4860, hopefully it will be an upgrade option, but I doubt it to start with; and it may never materialise until a later model when the Ati 5000 series is "mobilised". This may be the only reason I hold out on the 15" notebook for the time being. I don't often wait for things, but I think it would be worth a short wait - it's not like my current main notebook is horribly outdated or anything.

 

4860 isnt 40nm? you could have a long wait if your going to wait for them to upgrade the envy's hardware.

the data sheet says DDR3 so i guess it is confirmed. but surely there will be upgrade options.

 

The 4860 is 40nm, I did not claim that it wasn't. Whether it is user upgradeable on this machine is another thing all together.

Yes no doubt when the 5000 series comes out there will be something round the corner; and usually because of this I do not wait. Even so, I think I will wait until then in this case.

 

what setting you guys think the envy 15 could play crysis on?

 

Medium before the system melts

 

Yeah it might be a while before the add in the ATI 5XXX series into the envys, but as far as it being DDR3 vs. GDDR3 there is the possibility that the spec sheet is wrong. Maybe not, but I would hope that on a machine this pricey they'd make sure it's up to snuff.

 

Haha you know I'm sure someone might just end up doing that (but seriously though that'd be really bad news). Of course if something sparks and you've got that magnesium chassis...sure would make some headlines.

 

Computers are 100% safe from fire though, there's nothing to worry about~

 

Is there any non-forum related debate w/ actual testing of a GPU w/ DDR3? AFAIK despite ATI listing using DDR3, when you pull out the hardware and examine the memory chips, all their cards use GDDR3 and any listings of DDR3 are typos. GDDR3 is based off of DDR2 technology and would be 50% better than DDR2 but not DDR3. GDDR3 at 1GHz has a bandwidth of 9.6GB/s while DDR3 at 1GHz has a bandwidth of 8.53GB/s (vs. DDR2 at 800MHz w/ 6.4GB/s bandwidth - at a theoretical 1GHz it would have 8GB/s). GDDR3 and DDR3 both use 1.5V signaling, while DDR2 uses 1.8V. I'm still waiting for proof that shows that DDR3 in a GPU would severely cripple an identical card w/ GDDR3.

 

This is not true. Laptop fires can occur, but this is typically battery related. Search youtube for laptop fire and you'll find examples. Also, there have been numerous battery recalls due to the risk of failure and potential risk of fire.

 

As for the ATi 4830 using DDR3 or GDDR3.

As for proof, I don't have any I can only make a guesstimate and we will see shortly

I will say though that since the 4830 isn't exactly a powerhouse, the memory it uses will affect it. The bus is also 128 bit which I have no idea why they didn't use GDDR5 as it would have let that card perform very nicely.

 

Probably on max settings but at lower resolution then native resolution. If you tone down some effects, you could probably play smoothly on max resolution.

However, I'm waiting for a conclusion on this whole GDDR3/DDR3 debate. I really doubt that the difference is that huge. And if it is, why would hp do something like that?

 

If you want to prove that Envy 15 MAY come with DDR3 memory, this link might suit you better:

http://www.amd.com/us/products/note...00/hd-4830-4860/Pages/hd-4830-4860-specs.aspx

 

My concern with 4830, is that while its a pretty powerful card, it's already hampered by 128 bit bus, now if it indeed DDR2, just wonder if it's really much better than 46x0.

 

48xx series of ATI were they not all 256?

 

I think the argument is whether it is ddr3 or gddr, pretty sure if it was ddr2 it would be a bust lol

 

Wasn't trying to keep it specific to the Envy 15

Just showing that the 4830 can use either DDR3 or GDDR3.

 

This laptop looks good so far, but the 4830 isnt exactly as new as i would like... IMHO, the GPU, not the CPU, is the main driver for when to buy a new comp. To that end, with AMD releasing the 5000 mobility series cards so soon, ill wait to see if HP adds a 5830 or better to the Envy15. Of course, i will probably be waiting until after the new year for it...

http://www.techarena.in/news/9730-directx-11-gpu-notebooks-ati.htm
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20090914PD203.html

I've been rocking a Dell 600m (1.8Ghz PentiumM w/ Radeon 9000)
for the past 5 years, so i guess i can wait a little longer.

 

So soon? Got a real date on that one?
I dont expect to see new mobility radeon out for next few months, and certainly not in less than 40nm anyway. However, I am only guessing.

 

The 5000HD are supposedly due to November.
Let's see if they keep that word.
Now I wonder if the SXPS16 will get the 5650HD right after I buy one with 4670HD hahahaha

 

and who is to say how long after the 5xxx series comes out that it will be put into the envy. but that will be a pretty big leap for the gpu in the envy especially with gddr5 and directx 11. but for me as long as they offer the 4860 as an upgrade then its all good.

serg is that the desktop or mobility version?

 

The 5650HD? Should be for both, remember that ATI takes the desktop parts, downclocks them a tad and SHAZAAAAM! [HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA had to do it, sorry] they are mobile! (not like NVIDIA, grrrr)

If you check out the 5000HD thread in my sig, there is info on the matter, there are 10, to give you a sum-up

 

Well we'll see how ATI pulls through on these parts. Because I know it took quite a while for the cards to actually be available by larger manufacturers. For example it took quite some time (I think something like 5 months?) for the Studio XPS 16 to get the 4670 even though the card was announced when the laptop was released.

 

If you check the links that i provided in my previous post, you will see that the desktop 5xx0 cards should be released in November, while the Mobility equivalents are expected early 2010. This stands to reason b/c ATI usually has a 1 season lag between desktop and laptop chips.

5830 has GDDR3
5850 & 5870 have GDDR5
I doubt that will offer the 4860 as an upgrade because it has significantly greater power requirements, and without the slice, the Envy15 already gets some weak battery life. I think that the 5830 will be offered, eventually, because it's power draw should be close to the 4830.

Was it the *Mobility* version that was announced 5 months before it was available in the XPS16, or was it the desktop version? The Mobility (4830,4860,4870) series was announced in early March, and just now we are seeing it in the Envy... Clearly, the Envy15 was released because of the debut of the i7, and not the 4830. It would be very disappointing if they did not make available a more up-to-date GPU when the 58x0 series comes out, especially because Intel is not providing switchable integrated graphics on the i7.

State of Laptop GPUs:
Nvidia 200m series are the downclocked equivalent of their 9800 desktop series.
ATI Mobility cards are downclocked versions of the desktop card of the same name.
ATI Mobility 5000 series is slated to be released before Nvidia 300m series.
Nvidia is no longer making chipsets w/ switchable integrated graphics, because Intel will eventually win that battle.
Intel does not have integrated graphics in the i7, but plans on putting IG in the i5.

Like i said before, with current trends in processor utilization/efficiency, the GPU is my primary determinant for purchasing any new computer. In about 2 years, i expect discrete graphics solutions to have self modifying power profiles within the GPU, much like the i7 does. But unfortunately, im not willing to wait that long. Heres hoping for an i7 with a 5830, though an i5 w/ switchable 5830 would be a wet dream.

 

one33_bpm, the desktop parts are already being sold.
If you go to the link on my sig about the 5000HD series, you will see at the end two links with the 5850 ad 5870

 

battery life isnt a big deal for me. 4860 would be fine as long as it didnt get to hot. it still might be an option though if people want more battery life they can get the 4830 if they want the better GPU they can get the 4860. but really who the hell knows!! i am staring at my watch wondering why the days are going by so slow. im counting down to the release date.

 

Stop your watch, you wont know how fast the time goes... lol
But yeah, I am waiting for Friday to get a transfer to my bank account and then buy my laptop...oh I hope Dell doesnt **** me

 

The mem controller in RV740 (Radeon 4770, Mobility Radeon 4860/4830) don't even come with the ability to interface with DDR2.

The debate over DDR3 and GDDR3 is quite an artificial one, they are both JEDEC specifications of timing, bus multiplier, and thermal requirements; nothing is determined in terms of the actual bandwidth. You really have to wait for the exact specifications of the memory clock rates and tolerance to know whether DDR3 or GDDR3 is faster; anything before that is in the realm of speculation. GDDR3 does switch a little more efficiently between read and write modes, but that won't make much difference with processes like texture or frame-buffer, but may have a small effect on things like geometry compute.

DDR3 and GDDR3 actually overlap quite a bit in terms of permitted bandwidth, and you really would know next to nothing about any comparison in performance until you get more specific numbers of which actual IC are they choosing to use. I hope people here would do little jumping into conclusion, and have a little more patience (less than a week), and perhaps become a little better acquainted with JEDEC standards.

 

Benchmarks and real-world gaming will let us know

 

Too right...but that means waiting :'(

I've been waiting and waiting to have the funds...and when I do. More waiting.

Oh wells.

 

Yes I meant the Mobility 4670, and you basically proved what I was trying to say about availability of new ATI parts with the mobility 48XX series relative to the announcement time. Considering the Mobility 5XXX series has barely just been announced, I wouldn't be surprised if it took a while for them to be actually be seen in any real shipping systems. I hope the next refresh of the envy 15 does offer it, but again history has shown it'll likely be some time before that happens (though I do ATI has changed on this count). Plus by the time the 5830 becomes available they might announce another card that's got some new killer features worth waiting for.

I hope they don't go and switch it to an i5 all of a sudden and drop the i7 since I'd much rather have a quad-core than a dual-core laptop regardless of clock speed differences personally. The slice sort of helps make up for the lack of an integrated gpu. The 4830 isn't exactly a slouch though. Guess it goes back to the whole "buy a laptop when you need it line" on if you want to wait for a refresh or not.

 

Very true; but you are the one in the thread that has been most prone to jumping to conclusions, more than anyone else that I can see. Take a deep breath, and find something more sensible to say.

All of these statements about comparisons between DDR3 and GDDR3 are basically rubbish, without knowing the deatails of the actual memory chips used and the implementation on the boards.

 

i agree. is gddr5 a different story? from what i have heard it is quite a leap from gddr3.

 

Well the GDDR5 is supposed to offer quite the good performance jump from what I hear. Helped out the desktop 4870 series from falling behind with their 256-bit bus compared to other Nvidia offerings with a higher bus but GDDR3 memory.

 

Let's put it this way, 128-bit GDDR5 ~= 256-bit GDDR3. That by itself should tell you how much better it is. Btw the Envy 15 has pretty good battery life. If you compare it's 7 hours to Apple MBP's 7 hours, the battery difference is only something like 23WHr (divide that by 7 hours to get a difference of only ~3W). And the MBP uses integrated GPU to achieve that. I calculated the approximate power consumption in some other thread. The new CPU and 40nm GPU keep the power consumption very low (since most users will not stress their CPU and GPU on 100% much on battery).

 

Jumping to conclusions? All I said is if it is DDR3 and not GDDR3, you can count me out.

For $2k, I expect the better of the two. Is that too much to ask for?

Maybe you should read my posts a little better

I am making very sensible comments as I am basing them off of the literature and previews available. Maybe you need to go back and read more JEDEC white papers or something

 

The fact is we haven't seen any real benchmarks so we won't know how much performance difference there would be with DDR3 vs. GDDR3.

 

I seriously wish they put a hybrid graphics system, that would really push me over the top to buy it because of the resulting skyrocket in battery life. But I guess that means it would cost more than it already does....

 

Well, if it comes with the slice standard it kinda evens it out.

 

I'm wondering how does 6 GB of DDR3 compare to the standard 4 GB of GDDR3? Does the extra 2GB actually make it faster? Since looking at the base specs it seems to come with 6 GB of ram, so would it actually be faster than the standard 4GB of GDDR3 that notebooks use nowadays?

 

Not faster per se, just more RAM = more intensive tasks you can do at once.

I don't use more than 4 so 6 for me would be more than enough.

 

Meh I would take 4gb if they cut the cost, 6gb is over kill for what I do on a daily basis

 

You are mixing up video RAM with system RAM. System RAM is either DDR2 or DDR3, and there is no performance difference between the two (so 4GB of DDR2 = 4GB of DDR3, 6GB of DDR2= 6GB DDR3).

In video memory, there is a performance difference. 512mb DDR2 is not the same as 512mb DDR3- in fact the DDR2 is much worse. Then there is GDDR3, which is better than DDR3- but the debate is by how much.

The video card here will come with 1GB of either DDR3 or GDDR3, but which type has yet to be confirmed.

To answer your question about 4GB of system RAM vs 6GB of system RAM, usually the performance is only improved if you are doing memory-intensive applications that require that much RAM (like intensive editing/3D rendering applications). Most tasks, like gaming and multitasking normal programs, won't use up 4GB of RAM and therefore 6GB wouldn't offer much of a performance boost.

 

Another thing to keep in mind though about the RAM is that if it comes in at 6GB they haven't really said how that'll be split up as far as the 4 dimm slots go. I'm thinking they'll give us 3 x 2GB sticks with 1 free slot to add in another stick. Considering that they only advertise 2 of the 4 slots as available for easy access that might mean more of a pain in buying/reselling old and new sticks as well as opening things up for anyone planning on trying to hit that 16GB limit.