*HP HDX DRAGON Owners Lounge, Part 1*

@2.0,

Why do you keep feeding Strummer/Rumba/Gingernewb/ArleneP?

Just ignore him...it seems he feeds off of you. The more you test his knowledge, the more he tests your mettle, and 'round and 'round you go.

Just Say NO!

 

LOL, 2.0 I was thinking the same thing. If I am gone a few hours when I come back I see all these comments on post that no longer exist. The only thing that holds the continuity together is when they are quoted.

Anytime I see a post that looks like a reply or scolding and do not see the original, instead of being confused I am like "Rumba was here". We need an official (Rumba was here) Smiley to add to the beginning of post that reply to him to help with the confusion.

 

You're right and I know you're right. But you know what it is though?

He reminds me of my sister. And believe you me, that's saying something.

 

Sorry - posted this in the wrong thread.

 

Absolutely. A development I'll resist to my dying breath.


So you're not going to offer something you label as "gaming" machine because you feel that market is limited. OK. OTOH, if you're going to make a machine that is likely to appeal to gamers and that has a cpu and screen suited to it, such as the Dragon or the new HDX's, I don't see why you wouldn't offer a gaming-level gpu as an option, or at least, in the case of our beloved Dragon, make the gpu user-upgradeable.

Just my 2 cents, but I'd probably make a lousy businessman.

 

Excellent stuff 2.0 - will have to work this one and try it. You're right in that drives don't last forever - they last even less in systems with minimal RAM configurations and one HD.

 

I'd like to add to what 2.0 is talking about here, since it seems my X9000 specs have become the focus of some minor debate here.

Thermal readings cannot be considered when observed and recorded outside of lab conditions. Keep in mind that any data for any Penryn processor that is published, the X9000 included, was recorded in a lab under optimum settings, using specialized, calibrated systems and equipment. When processors are subjected to field use, there are so many factors that affect their performance and thermal characteristics that to try and focus on any one (or even a small group) is useless given the unlimited number of possible system configurations, system material properties, ambient temperature, humidity and barometric pressure (yes, all 3 affect thermal readings), RAM,software, OS's, the measuring program,electrical frequency variations (unless you're using an AVR) - the list goes on. Even in systems that are identical in configuration, the enviromental variances are enough to skew any measurements taken to the point that it's impossible to really make a case for or against.

And don't even get me started on the fact we're not dealing with calibrated machines or programs.

Published specs are reference guides only, not to be taken as gospel. And I agree 100% with 2.0 as far as processor speed during the time of the reading pic. Without a corresponding pic that shows a graph line with CPU performance at top speed at the same time the measurements were recorded, asserting that the processor reached full speed is ridiculous. You're talking about garage specs and test measurements to Engineers who have done this stuff in both garages AND labs, but you're only putting forth the garage argument. That might be great for the person that doesn't know any better, but if you're going to state a tech case based on specs and published data, back it up with a credible argument for that case - and especially if you're using my data as a reference to support it.

 

You and me both, LOL. I've already stated here many times that I feel the HDX 20" wasn't marketed properly, and should've been marketed as a gaming unit, or something for Multimedia Designers - 2 categories I fall into, among others. But marketing divisions tend to focus on core markets, and those are either the home user or business user. The HDX wasn't marketed as a business unit, another mistake because the sheer power of the HDX would've drawn a lot more people. Instead, what was the one thing they marketed the most? It's 20" screen. Again, I've also stated here repeatedly that I think when 64bit systems and their prices come down, more people will want a bigger display with a notebook. But a 20" isn't the domain of the average business user on the move who travels. The HDX isn't exactly "Seat-back and Tray table" friendly. So the HDX found a smaller niche than I think it should have.

I don't agree with their marketing strategy, but then they obviously don't care either. Computer company marketing divisions are about as savvy as Programming Exec's in the TV industry. About the only culture I know that is in tune with what their people want is Japan.

Some idiot likely looked at the sales figures for the 20" HDX and said "What can we do to bring those figures up, and why wasn't it selling?" Well, they probably sold more 17's than they did 20's, so they're solution? Make it smaller! 15's and 17's are the most popular, so they figure if they drop it it'll stand out.

Yeah, right - with the hundreds of other systems that are exactly the same. What makes our versions stand out is their size and performance quality, and the key is stand out - not everyone wants what everyone else is buying, but then that's not who companies market toward - they market to the other group that's buying what everyone else is buying.

To use a TV show analogy, remember when CSI first came out? Forensics shows hadn't been seen on TV since Quincy in the 70's. Now? It seems like they can't wait to add YET ANOTHER forensics program each year.

Supply and Demand are the drivers of business my friend, and unfortunately for people like us who'd like to have more aftermarket designs, there's just not enough "D" to support the "S".

 

Unless I've missed a post that brings this up, which is possible since I've been concentrating on a BT problem for a client, I'm going to throw my Engineering Analysis thought toward the backlight bleed problem on the HDX's, mine included. Everyone it seems has brought up countless explanations except the one that makes sense to me.

If everyone looks REAL CLOSE at the bottom corners of their screen bezels, what do you see? A whole bunch of LITTLE HOLES! Guess what those holes are for ( no not screen ventilation...) Those holes are for the lid mounted speakers. Now, what do speakers have in them that affect displays??? Hmmm.... MAGNETS!!! Likely very small ones, but it doesn't take much to affect a display. 2.0, you probably know more about notebook speakers than I do, but I do know what a magnet will do to a display - if anyone has a magnet handy, turn on QuickPlay or Media Center, and hold it up to a dark screen and see what happens.

I'd be willing to bet that the magnets on those speakers are probably either too strong or there's not enough insulation and it's causing some bleeding. Or, as is more likely, whoever designed it probably never thought about it. That kind of thinking is why JPL keeps making Mars Satellite gardens.

 

Seek LV2GO and ye shall find! :d

 

I paid really close attention to the screen last night while watching a letterboxed movie. I not only have the bottom light bleed, but there is some (less) at the top. Examining closely, it appears to me that there is a slight gap between the screen and bezel, perhaps to accomodate those speakers.

I'm going adjust brightness downward per 2.0's suggestions, but I'm concerned it won't be bright enough for my aging eyes.

I may have looked too closely, because I also found my obligatory stuck pixel. It's way down at the bottom right where I can live with it, but still.

 

LOL @ Nick.

 

Received my Alienware backpack. Thanks for posting the link....

Seems pretty decent but as Lancorp mentioned, the Alien theme is a bit goofy. It is not really blatant or loud, so I suppose I can get over it.

Looks like a decently made bag, finally something to put the new Dragon in.

Anyone have a direct link to the alternate power supply for the dragon? This monster brick is ridiculous!

Kudos to everyone posting great info.

Scott

 

Watch your TOES...!!!

 

For one who's credibility has plummeted into the depths of the abyss, it seems like ye should provide, rather than ask others to seek. But those that thrive on half-truths usually find it easier to rest on their claims knowing that others won't take the time or effort to dig and find refutable evidence. To coin a phrase...screenshot, or it didn't happen.

You, lad, are the epitomy of the mis-information exchange that plagues much of society today.

 

Sad to see that the forum is tenanted by a few phantoms and aliases.

Anyway, I'd like to know anyone's gaming experience with the X9000 WUXGA. I'm a bit bummed out that I might have to lower my res and invite image degradation.

Apparently one of the winners of the "31" contest has had great success taking that config to gaming events, at full res.

Can the PS3 be connected wirelessly to the Dragon and maintain full resolution? Do you think that the quality of PS3 games is also deteriorating? (earlier post about sloppiness of design)

The theory about speaker magnets and the "bleed" is interesting. Is the bleed something one must live with?

Lastly, the same tech who told me about the MXM upgrade path also mentioned to me (in my moment of indecision) that the X9000 ran cooler. But this is not a big issue with me.

Cheers

 

It's a Kensington Model 33197. Be careful, because there is an old version and a new version, and both are 33197. The new version supports USB tips, and the new version tips are not compatible with the old version. You need tip N30 for the HP.

If you want to pay full price, Amazon or Circuit City has the new version. Ebay has the old version (search 33197) for much less. The versions are identical except for the USB capability. The new version also has "racing strips" down the front, whereas the old version is all black.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: Just to clarify (I probably just confused things above), either version works with the HDX. You just need an N30 tip (or N30B for the newer USB version). Get whatever is cheapest, just as long as you get the N30 tip. Also I believe the N30B tip comes with the newer retail version, but not with the older version. You have to go buy it separately.

 

Thanks Lancorp.

So for the new model I should be expecting to pay about $125? I did see the older one for under $40, but it did not have the N-30 tip...Googling pricing on that now....

Question, The old model cannot do USB at all?

Thanks again..
Scott

 

I actually caught one before it was deleted. YESSS!

 

Yes. The newer model I haven't found as white box/refurbished yet. But, I have bought plenty of the original white box/refurb's for myself and clients, and they are like new (if not really new!). You can buy one of the ebay units, and then call Kensington customer service, and purchase an N30 tip directly.

All the USB version gives is a tip that has a USB port on it, allowing you to charge anything that is USB chargeable, without needing a special tip just for that device. Not a real biggie, in my opinion.

Lastly, should you have a problem when you get your whitebox/refurb unit, or anytime within the 1 year, just call kensington (or email, which is what I do), and they will, without question, send you a brand new USB version, retail packaged, and complete with tips. I've done that about 4 times, and everytime I wind up with a completely brand new unit. Very nice company.

 

You sure? LOL, don't feed the trolls!

 

The display is an LCD, not a CRT. I find it unlikely that magnets are affecting the display.

Backlight bleed is a common problem on LCD displays.

 

Thanks again Lancorp...Repped ya.

I found one on fleabay. I'll have to find the tip separately though...

Scott

 

What am I missing here? Why would I need a USB tip for a bag?

 

Not a usb for the bag, for a different power supply. The Kensington is much smaller then the stock HDX brick power supply...And you can use it for other devices, hence the tips...

On another note, back dozens of pages was a discussion about the audio. I swear I recall someone saying there was some great audio control panel or utility to tweak sound. Where the heck is that?

Thanks,
Scott

 

LCD's can't be damaged by magnets like a CRT can. Anything that has voltage running through it can be affected by magnets.

 

Cyber, maybe I am mis-reading things, but if I'm not mistaken, you are the one that suggested magnets could be causing screen problems. This post backs up what MonkeyK said...I'm confused...

 

HC,
What Monkey was saying is that he didn't think magnets would affect LCD AT ALL, that they only affect or damage CRT's. LCD's are liquid with a voltage running through them. What I said in my last reply to him was that it's known for the most part that magnets can't damage an LCD like a CRT, but that wasn't my point - my point was that anything that is electrical in nature can be affected by magnetism. That's the nature of electricity itself. An LCD, which is just displays differently, uses voltage to manipulate the images you see. While a magnet may not have the same effect on an LCD that it does on a CRT, it will still affect it. I defer to 2.0's knowledge of the particular speakers since he's had the HDX apart and seen them.

The other reason I mention the speakers is that the problem appears only on the bottom edge (unless others have it somewhere else, but the majority of us see it on the bottom). Another possibility is overtorquing of the bezel screws, or something with the alignment or placement of the speakers causing a squeezing effect on the bottom edge of the screen. If you go to a black screen and touch it physically with a magnet it'll turn the same color. But you can also get an almost close match pushing on it with your finger, just not as bright.

 

Dozens of pages back!

Actually, if you downloaded a certain version driver, crossed your fingers, and if it was your lucky day, you'd have an IDT audio control panel to even further control some of your audio functionality...I installed the driver, but wasn't able to get the control panel until I manually copied the .cpl file to the windows\system32 folder....

Driver version 5607 is what shipped with my HDX and 5929 is what I (and others) installed over 5607 to get the control panel.

You probably won't find the original post because I believe it was from rumba, who apparently has deleted all his posts. But, here is the link for download of 5929 if you want it:

ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp39001-39500/sp39330.exe

 

Indeed.

It's on a game by game basis. Your best bet is to list the games you want to know about Also, read the Sager and Gateway section of this forum. These are your gamers. There aren't too many x9000 owners in this thread that play games. But again, you don't need to worry so much about the x9000 as games are GPU dependent and that is where the bottleneck lies. As I said before, once you break 2ghz, the CPU is no longer the bottleneck.

Here, check this out... HDX w max specs with game benchmarks.

http://www.planetx64.com/index.php?...=view&id=1263&Itemid=14&limit=1&limitstart=15

What do you mean here? Do you mean to wirelessly transmit the PS3's vidio outlet to the hDX?

It's partly true that this can happen by what's called EMI (electromagnetic interference.) But most LCD's have a ferrite "bead" in their data cabling to prevent or considerably minimize the impact of EMI. It's not the same effect that magnets had on CRT's. The EMI effect on an LCD would be seen as artifacts, possibly ghosting, and hue shifts.

You may have noticed that big bulge in monitor cables? That's the ferrite bead. Same exists in laptops internally at some point.

And there you have it. Another misinformed tech. It's a shame that they often give out false information to make a sale.

 

Link to official information would be appreciated.

As you may or may not know, since you asserted the notion the onus is on you to prove it.

LV2GO isn't exactly a small site. But perhaps whomever you got that information from might kindly point to where he got it from. You may even wish to confront him about that idea of the 8 Series GPU's down clocking when their core temps reach >70C.

Nothing in the Nvidia spec sheets list anything like that. Where as with Intel, their spec sheets do list that the X9000 will downclock to protect itself if a certain heat threshold is met. This is true of all their multiplier unlocked CPUs.

BTW, Welcome back.

 

Oh man, I missed this before I posted my reply. So very poignant and well put!

 

Good deal...I have the 5607 also and will try the 5929...I am backing up all drivers now before I attempt. I also have a restore point.

The HDX is running pretty good. I've cleaned off most of the Crapware, installed PSCS3 and my plugins and other various apps, and even made an Acronis image of the perfect setup...LOL

Will keep you posted.

Scott

 

2.0
Thanks for the usual thoughtful and comprehensive response. I still think you must be on Naturally Speaking, or maybe you just have dancing fingers.

Yes...I'm always trying to think of inputting a PS3 to the HDX screen without resolution loss.

That review said everything that he threw at it played at full WUXGA, with a couple of of titles playing above minimum. That sounds impressive.

Do you think there is a fix for the Backlit Bleed (opening in theatres around the country soon.)

Cheers

 

Installed, I see the new driver version, but nothing different looking?

Scott

 

I'm a fast touch typer. I use an external keyboard with the HDX that's set up to be at an ergonomic position. It's an arm mounted under my desk with keyboard and mouse tray. I bought it mostly for gaming. Right shoulder has taken a beating over the years from sports and car accidents.

I really like that review. He gave good and practical info.

Your idea for the PS3 got me thinking. Something along the lines of an expresscard that has component inputs used to capture video might do the trick. This would preserve the Hi def output of the PS3. Someone may even make a USB device with component video in. I'll take a peak at what's out there.

Only thing I found so far is this. But in might only be able to input 480p. don't know if it'll do 720P 1080i/p
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/videorecorder/


LOL, at Backlight Bleed, the movie.

Fixable? Probably not. Minimizable, to a degree. Now that it was mentioned, I'm more cognizant of it. I've got it down to a reasonable level, but in some movies, the "fix" makes it look to dark.

 

I looked into the Expresscard appurtenances, but the present Expresscard (the reincarnation of PCMCIA) has a limited bandwith. Later this year or early next year there will be Expresscard 2.0 ports on some notebooks. Out of the box they will allow faster running external devices and GPUs to communicate with the notebook.

A slow port, as you know, compromises what an external gpu can do.

I'd be interested to know if there are any other ways of getting a PS3 to play into the HDX display. Doing some reading the notion of using a wireless router to output information to the HDX seemed feasible. Of course at three a.m. many things seem feasible.

Does HP (former parent of the new orphan) know about this?

Thanks

 

I gotta say that you went the extra mile with these results. Thanks a million. I wonder if I have a defective card maybe. I should try to run these tests on my laptop. I am currently trying to play Warhammer online. I run fraps while I play and I am only getting about 30 framesper second. Just doesn't make sense to me.

I see that you have overclocked yours. Any suggestions on where to go to learn the best and safest way to overclock mine?

 

I bought fresh new 7200 rpm 320Gb hdd yesterday and did a clean Vista Ultimate 64 install. I did have a little trouble guessing which driver when from SWsetup but I pulled it over. I NEVER installed any MS driver and I installed the quick launch buttons right after installing Intel chipset and Nvidia. The Eject button IS NOT WORKING, I'm beginning to think that it comes from the 64bit OS. Anyone solved this problem? is this related to the 64 bit OS or am I experiencing a hardware failure?

 

Hi - If you are really RUMBA welcome back buddy -

 

Go see my post at page 100.

 

Out of curiousity, can one of the HDX hard drives be used for a dual boot system, with XP installed? Though some games are supposed to run better in DX10, many ganes are said to run more quickly under XP.

Thanks

 

Two ways to do it.

1. Using the same drive Vista is installed on, partition the primary HD (HDD 1) and install XP on it. You can also partition the 2nd HDD, but the bootloader will be on HDD 1. Which means if HDD 1 fails, you wouldn't be able to boot off HDD2.

Here's an online tutorial: http://www.syschat.com/dual-boot-vista-xp-vista-already-1946.html

2. Use my guide to actually be able to install XP on the 2nd HDD and be able to selectively boot off the 2nd HDD. This puts an separate bootloader on the 2nd HDD. See page 100 for the link to it.


In both cases you will need XP drivers for the HDX which can be found here: http://www.hpdrivers.mercs.us/

You'll also need a program called nlite in order to slipstream in the SATA driver. Otherwise you won't be able to install XP.

Nlite: www.nliteos.com


Caveat: So far, it seems no one has figured out how to get bass to work with the XP sound driver. You can try driver 5607 and 5929.

Note: It's not all that true anymore about XP being faster game-wise than Vista. It was mostly a video driver issue. But what is true is that some older games will function properly in XP while they may have compatibility issues in Vista.

 

An odd thing happened yesterday when I powered on my HDX Dragon.

It came up fine, logged in, and everything seemed good, except it was a little sluggish. I looked down at the HDD activity light to see if the HD was going full blast on me, and noticed NONE of the LED indictators was lit (no power, no charging, and no HD activity). I thought I was in the Twilight Zone! The unit WAS on!

Then, I noticed only one of the touch buttons was lit along the top. Only the little touch button that looks like a movie projector. None of the other lights were lit and if I touched them, they would not light. Not even the little embedded LED in the power button was lit.

How weird is that?

 

Weird that it would boot with the theater mode engaged. Wonder what was up with the sluggishness though.

 

Theater mode? Is that what that icon of a movie projector does...turn off all the lights on the unit? I didn't hit it on purpose, but I suppose it's possible I touched it by mistake.

Maybe I should RTFM?

 

aztdaniel,

I had to go back a few pages to find this post and make sure I had the right game. Your CPU may be the issue, however it seems like it shouldn't cause a terrible experience. Your 2.1 may be bottlenecking however, as they say the game is heavily CPU dependent. I base this off the requirements review Gamespot posted on the game here:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6197926/index.html?tag=topslot;thumb;3

Obviously, their tests are done on desktop systems, but they rate some pretty low end cards in some of their tests. The 8800m GTS should still handle it very well.

One thing to note, most of their best performing cards in this game are ATI. I have noticed in the past on other games where this is the case, nVidia cards usually have problems across the board. Some companies issue performance enhancements to their game engines to rectify this, some don't.

I know you don't seem like the techiest guy out there, but I recommend you upgrade the CPU or find someone that can do it for you if you can afford to or plan to stick with this game for a while. As the months and years go by, this will be best option for you as the rest of your system is top notch for mobility gameplaying.

 

MA,
Having a lot of network experience with the PS3, the only way I can see to get data flow between the two is if you hook 2 gaming adapters to each device. You can also use a DBN (Dual-Band N) gaming adapter as a substitute for a USB adapter or the installed AGN by direct wired connection to your RJ-45 port. They're also used for direct head-head gaming between PS3's, which is why I think it would work in this instance.

The adapter I'm referring to is Linksys' WGA600N Dual-Band N Gaming Adapter . I've used one since they came out with my DBN router and they're great. As I said, they're also a great subsitute for the wireless adapter as you get faster throughput with it than the installed adapter or a USB. It's just not portable as it needs to be plugged into AC like a router. It also has its own CAT cable - if you get one DON'T make the mistake of substituting it with a regular CAT-5E or you'll have problems, as I found out the hard way.

I'd also recommend Linksys' WRT600N DBN Router as you'd be able to communicate between the 3 easily.

I've been thinking about getting another one just to increase my wireless speed while I use my HDX at home. If I do I'll give this a shot.

HDX OWNER'S LOUNGE TRIVIA QUESTION OF THE WEEK: What tool is the Astronaut in the picture on the left holding? (No, it's not a DeWalt Stainless Power Drill...)

 

Thank you 2.0 I was hoping there was a simple solution. I guess I'll have to be careful not to touch the buttons when cleanning the surface.

 

Is there a way to disable the CD eject button on top. I only want to turn off that button as I inadvertently hit it every time I go to hit page down.

Scott