Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga

The higher resolution is actually a useless feature, anything above 1080p on anything 13.3" and under is just useless, Windows doesn't scale well and the TPY is about my limit for pixel density, any higher resolution would drive me insane, I don't like using anything other then 1:1 scaling for Desktop as otherwise things look blurry tome no matter what fixes I have tried. I admit the IGZO will most likely be a much better quality screen but I mean that is more important for people who edit photos due to colour issues. For all other uses the TPY screen is actually very vibrant and nice for general use.

The better battery life is subjective, no tests have actually been done but seeing as the i5 TPY gets me through 8-9 hours of word, note taking and web browsing I struggle to see the T904 doing much better. According the Fujitsu the battery life is only 8.5 hours, same figure I achieve with the TPY.

The last two points are valid, but not such a big deal to me, I have a car charger for my TPY and the actual mains charger is so small I carry it around anyways so swapping batteries wouldn't really be something I care for. Of course to each his own but I just can't seem how those points are worth $800. not to mention the T904 is only up to Wireless N whereas the TPY comes with the option for AC (futureproofing)

The Fujitsu data sheet only mentions 1 DIMM slot.

Also on Fujitsu T904 main page it states only one DIMM under the Technical Specifications

 

Hey I have a couple of questions for you pertaining to the TPY but I can't PM yet. Do you mind PMing me?

 

Also, does anybody have any suggestions on what apps to use with the TPY? I bought my version from Costco and I feel like I'm missing out on the true capabilities of this machine in terms of touch. I haven't really found any metro apps that I like nor have I found any regular programs that makes the touch screen worthy of usage. I wish I could take notes but I can't..

 

Thanks a ton, you really made my decision easier... was kinda straddling the fence on spending 1400$ based on some of the bugs reported. I'm a pilot in the military, and having a rugged construction is kind of essential for all the places I keep travelling to. Ghosting and minor dead zone issues does not matter since I basically need the digitiser for taking notes and memos. Planning to order it today, lets see when it arrives!

 

Well you can still get a Capacitive stylus and download the OneNote app in the Windows Store for free.

There's also all the stock apps like mail and news, Facebook and twitter apps a pretty good as well as the metro internet explorer.

It really depends on what sort of apps you want, for games I have Asphalt 8, Hill Climb Racing, ARMED, Microsoft Mahjong and Solitaire, Microsoft Pinball FX.

FreshPaint is pretty good as well as the a kindle app.

What sort of apps are you looking for??

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

The top is not carbon fiber. It is also made of a magnesium alloy. But yes, the TPY is built like a tank and the build quality is fantastic.


Sent from my GS4

 

To be specific, according to the Product Specifications Reference:

Display cover: Magnesium and Aluminum + Polyphenylene sulfide (PPS)
Bottom: Magnesium and Aluminum + Polyphenylene sulfide (PPS)

 

Ahh, I thought the top was made using CFRP seeing ad there's a slight flex in the top casing

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

Right. That's why I added alloy But the point was it's not carbon fiber anyway you slice it

Sent from my GS4

 

So, a rep from an Austrian Lenovo reseller claimed to me that swapping the HDD for SSD will void my warranty. I am just wondering, do they ever check? Is there a central database where FRU updates are fed into? To be clear, I currently live in the US but might relocate Europe-wards some time in the future, so playing with getting a 3y-warranty extension + ADP. But if swapping the harddrive voids that, there'd be no point, right? Also would it void the warranty on all of the computer or just the HDD?

 

It will void your entire device warranty BUT that's assuming your silly enough to send it in for repair with a different hard drive

Basically stick your own SSD or whatever in there but keep the stock hard drive and m2 cache SSD to put back in just in case you need a warranty repair.

There are NO CRUs for the TPY besides the Digitizer stylus -.-

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I had the worst customer service I experienced with Lenovo today.

Apparently Lenovo sales reps have no idea about their products and historical prices. I just talked one on the phone, and he was uninformed and rude. All I wanted to learn if there is any additional discount he can offer, and if HDD option will be available again. I told him that Canadian prices increased by $200-$250 (without coupon) for the same configuration since January, and I was hoping to get a discount to pull the price back what it was then. He first claimed there was a discount then and it is over (there wasn't). Then he said it was for another configuration (it wasn't, I know what I'm looking for). And then he claimed HDDs were never available, TPY is designed to be used only with SSD! I told him that I saw it myself on the web and I've seen many people bought on this forum. He kept insisting and answered in a very rude way. So, I told him that obviously he doesn't know his stuff and I want to talk to another rep. He rejected that! They have no right to reject such a request. So I asked to speak to his manager, and he forwarded my call to a customer rep!!! I'm so frustrated with the whole experience.

I called again and talked to the supervisor of another rep team, and she'll contact his manager. He is by far the rudest rep I talked to, and this is the worst customer service I received. I have absolutely no trust on the Lenovo sales reps now, and I'm even considering to buy another device. This shouldn't be the service I get when I pay over $1300. Very disappointing.

 

According to Lenovo's own product info (can't find the link right now, but it was posted here before) HDD/SSD is an "Optional-service CRU", which means you can either do it yourself, or request Lenovo to do it for you (there might be a fee involved - depending on your warranty agreement, I guess).

 

This is my list, obviously to each his own:
Advantages:
- 13" vs 12.5" (I never thought it would matter until I got the TPY - which is my first 12.5" laptop - and, surprisingly, it does - there is a tangible difference for me.
- Panel LG vs Sharp IGZO (I've seen IGZO display panel and compared to TPY's LG it's like kids tricycle vs ducati. Even if you don't need good sRGB coverage and do not watch movies/videos/pictures but rather stick to word and excel, you'll still benefit from an improved battery life. I do agree about the resolution, though - anything above FHD on a panel this small is an overkill for me)
- Swivel hinge (again - this is totally a matter of preference, but after using both I'd go for a conventional swivel type hinge like Fujitsu's every time)
- Replaceable battery (I do like to have an option for a spare battery as for me it's more convenient than lagging a power-brick. This might change when FINsix will start shipping, though.)
- Built-in cellular modem (I HATE usb modems and iPhone hotspot. My old T400 had a built-in modem and it just works - I always had internet, no matter where I was and without any specific action on my part. I'd love to have this back)
- Minor advantages - lighter, has more ports, more convenient docking solution (this is after using OneLink dock vs older Lenovo docks), but all those are really minor for me

In terms of disadvantages - the single channel RAM, which is just plain stupid, but for my particular workflow the impact might be relatively minor. I'll have to see benchmarks/reviews first. Also, I've heard rumors that HDD is not user replaceable and swapping it will void your warranty - this is also a major no-no for me.

 

No there are NO CRUs at all on the TPY. Even the Hard drive is an FRU. Not sure why but that's how lenovo did it.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

The Hardware Maintenance Manual states otherwise?

http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/s1_yoga_hmm_en_sp40a26742_01.pdf

 

Having carried around my X220 daily for almost two years, I have came to appreciate the compact form factor of 12.5", and I have done extensive programming on it when on daily commuting and on international travel.

I actually like the dual hinge of the TPY more than the conventional hedge since the former is simpler.

The replaceable battery is indeed an advantage.

 

So, technically, to avoid invalidating the warranty, how would you go about upgrading the hard drive? Find a Lenovo-certified technician?

 

Lenovo is learning from Apple.
Let's look at somethings that Lenovo learned from Apple...

Non user replaceable battery - check
Non user replaceable SSD/HDD - check
Soldered RAM - check
Use LCD panels that can have a significant image retention issue - check

Just do what you do when you buy Apple laptops , pay the most you can to upgrade the drive straight from the factory.

It would be interesting if you could pay a Lenovo certified technician to put a higher quality SSD than what Lenovo offers in your Yoga though.

 

Isn't that considered fraud?

 

That's what I kind of thought... Which was why I was more aiming at: Do they have a way to know every modification that happened to a particular laptop. What if the SSD just happens to be there. Like "I cannot confirm nor deny that this SSD was installed by a certified Lenovo technician".? To be fair, Lenovo Austria sell 840 Pro and Evo 840 and offer to install them for EUR 36. Even including "imaging the drive using the included Samsung software". (I am doubtful that that'd work, from what I heard re UEFI) but hey, if they brick it, they bricked it. right?

 

No I don't think so. Actually a guy (a lawyer by his admission) once commented in lenovo forum that as long as you don't break anything it will be hard for lenovo (or anything OEM) to refuse warranty services.

 

That depends on where you are looking at. Here it says HDD is an Optional service CRU: System Service Parts - ThinkPad S1 Yoga.

 

I think X220 is more compact than TPY, but I never used X series, so I can't compare. As for TPY vs T904 in terms of physical size Fujitsu is only about 0.2" larger in width and 0.5" in depth and it's thinner and lighter, so I doubt the difference will be noticeable.
Then again - I never thought I'd feel the difference between 12.5" and 13.3", but now when I've tried both - I certainly do...

 

Hi amirvf,
How did you clone your drive using EaseUS? Did you clone all 5 original partitions in the TPY? I tried doing this, EaseUS wouldn't let me clone 5 partitions so I only cloned 4 (skipped the 128MB partition). Tried the new drive this morning and it wouldn't boot. Said there was something went wrong during Startup (unrecognized boot device). Did you do anything to make the Windows partition bootable aside from marking it as Active in EaseUS? Thanks for any help!

 

Hi, would you mind sharing the details of how you cloned your drive using EaseUS? Thanks a lot!

 

Canadian Prices did increase, but only by $100 due to the lower dollar value. The TPY's are now included in Lenovo's weekly sales, this one running until March 12 gives you12% off, which is exactly the same as the 12CLOSE#### codes used to. If you want it cheaper, go to the US, find some one dumb enough to trade CAD for USD at par, buy it there, then smuggle it across the boarder.. or find a way to bring our dollar back up to par. Even with the price increase, this laptop is more than worth it in my opinion

 

And now I just get an email from Lenovo that the order I cancelled just shipped. LOL! I couldn't get one to save my life for weeks and weeks and now I'll have two of them.

Sent from my GS4

 

Lenovo is still learning from Apple so they should eventually get around to fixing that issue.

 

No, it increased by $250 for the configuration I looked for, I'm pretty sure. It was 1299 when I first started looking. Now it is 1549 without the discount, 1363 with the discount. I really wish I bought when it was 1299, I even had a 10% coupon which made it $1169. Now of course I don't want to pay extra $200 for the very same product. I understand the $100 increase due to the lower dollar value but we also pay much higher taxes than US. With current prices, it's actually more than 100 dollar cheaper if my friend in Iowa buys it for me due to the huge difference in tax.

That aside, I really care about the customer service. What I experienced was no where close to the service you should get when you're willing to pay this much money. I'm really disappointed. I'll keep waiting either for a better discount or another product by another company.

 

Thank you so much for this! My recovery partition works perfectly now. By the way, I tried typing reagentc/disable and reagentc/enable in the Command Prompt I'd opened in earlier steps, it didn't work. Found that I had to exit the command prompt after step 6 and run it again as administrator (step 8) for this to work.

 

Hi,

I know this may be a dumb question, but is there any way I can integrate a 3g sim slot on this without a USB dongle ?
And any updates on the ghosting / image retention issues - planning to buy the i5 digitiser version tomorrow.
And finally - can anyone tell me if the 4 Gb memory is adequate or should I go for the 8 GB version (every penny counts!)

 

- 3g modem - nope, unfortunately there is no practical way to do it.
- Ghosting issue is being investigated by Lenovo and according to latest info from the affected users who had access to several machines the extent of the ghosting varies, so you might get lucky and get a better panel, although it usually gets worse with time. There is no definitive solution from Lenovo yet. Also, according to Dell XPS 12 forum (which suffers from the same issue) there were supposed to be a new batch of panels from LG promised by Dell everybody was waiting for, but as those panel started to arrive and got installed in users machines they turn out to be suffering from the same ghosting (and according to manufacturing date/part numbers they weren't that new either) - so no good news, I'm afraid. That said, some of the users here say that they do not experience any serious ghosting or don't mind, so my advice is to find a TPY in a retail store (to make sure it had enough running time for the ghosting to appear) and run a 10 minute checkerboard test to see what you can expect for yourself - then decide if it bothers you or not.
- My advice is - go for 8GB, there is no way to upgrade the RAM on TPY later on, so you are stuck with what you bought and RAM is the most cost effective way to improve your computer's perceived performance. For comparison - In most common usage scenarios you'll feel much bigger difference between 4GB and 8GB than between core i5 and core i7. That said, if you usually keep only one or two lightweight applications open and restrict yourself to 2-3 open tabs in browser, then you might not feel the difference and not need 8GB - especially if you are on a budget.

 

Eh the ghosting is there for everyone like you said and will be appearent more and more as time goes on though. They have gone somewhat silent too on their forum about it as well. They did the same thing with x220 and the Helix (which they claimed was fine). I honestly think that their support on their forums for the issue is for show considering the issue has been there for a while and it's not that hard to identify LG panels as the problem. I read on the main thread how the engineers were shocked to see the ghosting in the machine the guy brought in and funny enough, the replacement he got for his troubles still had ghosting. I really find it hard to believe that engineers don't visit their official forums nor would have taken notice about the machines being returned due to ghosting. I predict that they will do nothing and the truth is, they could have put nicer panels in these without the issues. Probably more than half the users with a TPY don't go on forums so they might think the ghosting is normal and won't do anything.

 

Is the ghosting an issue just with TPY or is it with all X2xx series notebooks as well?
Lenovo X2xx series has had a 12.5" screen always and if LG is the only manufacturer, it should have been a problem with all 12.5" X series models in the past

 

My x220 Ips screen has no ghosting.

 

My x230t screen had a ghosting issue.

 

I knew, ha ha.

 

No it shouldn't because the panels are all different. 12.5" is the size of all the panels but they all utilise different resolutions hence they are different panels. The TPY uses a full HD panel whereas older think pads didnt

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

Thanks, was about to buy the TPY and then saw the 23 page thread on ghosting on the lenovo forum, on which the most scary was the fact that the company seemed to be unaware that such a problem exists. broke my heart since I was about to ship out of the country next month and really REALLY needed a new laptop. Can anyone tell be how bad is this issue - as in does it prevent you from working? Or is it only there if you really look for it?
Started looking at the fujitsu 734 and 904 but both are much more expensive and they dont have service centres where I'm going.....

And @rabramov. thanks, will go for the 8 Gb version if and when I do -guess its better to future proof it as much as possible.

 

I am not a TPY owner but I do own the Thinkpad X240 with the FHD screen. Essentially its the same LG screen that is used both in the TPY and the FHD version of the X240. I have had this machine for a month now and I dont have any ghosting issues. My machine was built in February so it is possible that the newer batches of the LG screen do not have the ghosting issues.

 

So I finally decided to ship back my Sony flip 13.

Gonna order a ThinkPad yoga now and I need help deciding what cpu I should take. The options are i5 4200 and 4300, i7 4500 and 4600. I tried reading some reviews but they couldn't tell me so much. Some get as much performance out of a i5 as an i7 and i think it's only mobiletechreview that test both in the same test.

My question is if it's worth it to pick the more expensive cpus and if the yoga can actually cool them enough to gain some performance over the i5s. And whether I should pick the newer revisions (i5-4300, i7-4600) or the older(i5-4200, i7-4500)? Is the newer revisions better binned? I.e. able to use lower voltages on the same frequency? Will the faster cpus finish the task I'm doing on battery (loading a Webpage, taking notes in one-note, writing in word) faster and therefore increase battery time (some kind of race to idle thinking) or will they reduce battery time and then how much reduction will i see?

Why I would want the faster cpus is to future proof my computer and also to be able to play games like LoL and dota2. But I don't want it if it means a lot of reduction in battery life and also if they won't give more performance due to heat restraints then i dont wanna spend the extra dollars in vain.

Thanks for all help and inputs on this! Gonna order it today so I need your guys help :-D

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

Those aren't newer revisions - those are different SKUs and they include additional features (mostly enterprise related) and yes - a slightly higher clock. Based on my experience difference between i5 and i7 is barely noticeable and I doubt you'll be able to see any difference in speed between same series-different SKUs. I got i7 4500 because I'm doing development on it, but honestly - it struggles under heavy load, the fan is running at nearly full throttle and it gets hot, so I could have probably do away with i5.
So I don't think going with i7 will aid much in future-proofing. The only thing that might be relevant is the TSX support in 4600/4300, but by the time this becomes mainstream and gains some SW support your TPY will probably be a door-stop.

Now if you want to play with CPU voltages and try to increase battery life you might indeed benefit from a higher end SKU as they do run at higher frequency at the same voltage by default, so indeed it looks like those are better binned. Also undervolting might improve thermals a little bit too...

 

Not yet but I'll test as soon as I get my unit back. I sent it back for replacement about 3 weeks ago. I just bought Asus ac66u router. I also have a NAS and I'm interested to know how fast I can move data between NAS and laptop over WLAN.

 

So I rule out the 4600 then. And you also think that you're thermal limited with your 4500? So there's no real use getting anything more than a i5?
I wonder if people here with tpy i5 and tpy i7 could do me a favor and run some heavy benchmark like prime95/occt or something and see what your average frequency would be after some minutes? If the i7 can sustain a higher average freq then the i5 then that would mean that it is more thermal efficient i.e. lower voltage for the same freq and i would be able to get a sustained increase in performance. But otherwise I will just go for the i5-4200.

Thanks for all help and input!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

Under prime my TPY hovers around 1.8-1.9 GHz, but it's really cold in the office today (the fan is not even running at full throttle, which is unusual). On a usual hot day I believe I get around 1.6 or so, maybe even less. I don't have i5 TPY to compare, but I'm pretty sure it would turbo-boost to approximately same clock as i7 in steady state.
(that is connected to power source under high performance profile with min clock set to 100% and active cooling policy)

i7 also has larger cache, so in some specific scenarios you might get better performance, and if you have mostly intermittent load i7 might also do a little better, but if you are looking at sustained high load scenarios I do not believe there will be tangible difference between i5 and i7 on TPY.

That said, I've only seen two TPYs and the build quality of the machines have been reported to vary rather substantially (to put it mildly), so there is a possibility you'll get better assembled machine with better thermals, so it won't throttle as much.

 

I just ran Prime95 using the In-place FFT Torture test which generates maximum heat and tests RAM as well as the CPU. The maximum temperature as you can see is 73 degrees AND the clock never went below 2.2Ghz, mostly was at 2.3Ghz.

The fan wasn't constantly going either, it wasn't at 100% all the time and only kicked up occasionally during the test.

 

Hi all owners of the TPY...

Crisis! my laptop finally gave up after 7 years of dedicated service. I've been seeing this thread for a while, and the one on notebookreview, and wanted to ask all the owners facing the ghosting - is it prohibitive?

I am not picky on the screen display - not much anyway- however if it does not let me work, then its unacceptable... I'm really keen on the TPY since its the only convertible with gorrilla glass, thinkpad ruggedness and the digitiser. However all that is useless if productivity suffers. my main use of the laptop would be for office applications, and the internet.

The second problem is that I will be travelling to India soon, and althought the warranty is valid there, I will not be able to return the system if I dont like it - so I would really like some help.

Real world user reviews please!.

 

I received my Yoga yesterday.

Display Hardware ID was branded Lenovo instead of LG.
No PWM flickering was visible to naked eye, and even video recording didn't show any flickering. I tried at low & high brightness settings.

Adaptive brightness requires a bit work. 3 steps to disable it completely and repeat for every power profile. Screen had no ghosting/watermark/burnt picture effects, so I've to say I'm quite happy with it.

Only funny thing was that the air exhaust grill is at the bottom and also keyboard is used to push air out. Using it as a tablet in your lap, you'll have to hold it upside down or the fan exhaust will be blocked.

 

Thanks... Any inputs from older users....Can any one confirm their Display hardware ID was Lenovo or LG?