Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga

My reasons exactly!

 

I went through the Yoga 2 Pro, the Lenovo Helix, and yesterday I got my Thinkpad Yoga, all in the space of 4 months or so. Here was my experience, coming from a MacBook Pro:

I had a surface pro 1st gen since their release, and used it as a "toy" since I couldn't use it as a real computer with the little drive in them, and kept using my Retina MacBook Pro as my main work/personal laptop. End of 2013 I wanted to go with a touch device as my main computer full time. I sold the MacBook and the Surface Pro, and picked up a Yoga 2 Pro.

Liked the weight, the keyboard was good, although not stellar. Trackpad was quite a step down from the MacBook pro trackpads I'd been using for 4 1/2 years (switched to Mac in 2009 after using windows since it's inception in the 80's). The screen was beautiful, the touch worked well, everything was very fluid with the Metro interface. But I was one of those impacted by nonstop network drops. I replaced the onboard wireless chip with a dual band version, and still had the same issue (more on that in a bit). But the biggest issue I had was the high resolution. It was *too* high for what I do, which is work in IT and spend a LOT of my time in remote desktop sessions with servers. That doesn't scale well at all, and I ended up running the thing at 1920x1080 all the time to get around it. I figured between the wireless drops and not using the full resolution, there wasn't much reason to keep it. So I switched to a Helix in January.

Helix I loved, except for the lack of a backlit keyboard and again, wireless dropping all the time. Unfortunately, no option there to change it. The trackpad was large, bigger than the Yoga 2 Pro and bigger than my new Thinkpad Yoga, so I loved that, but hated the hard coded right click bottom right corner that Lenovo seems to want to shove down our throats (I can NOT get rid of that even trying hacks in the registry). Because of how I hold my hand when using it, the thumb usually rests in that area so I can't click and drag anything because that click is ALWAYS a right click. I'm still trying to retrain myself after 4 years of beautiful MacBook Pro trackpad use. It also got so hot on the back that it was impossible to use as a tablet for the things I'd use it as a tablet for. So whenever I wanted a "tablet" I spun it around and put it upside down on the keyboard. At which point I realized, "Why do I bother since I wanted it as a pure tablet when I could, and can't use that anyway, so if I'm always going to have a keyboard underneath it, I may as well just get the thinkpad yoga." The screen on the Helix was locked in well, but not *tight* so if you walk from one room to another with it you could feel it flopping around. The hinge wasn't moving, just the display around the two posts. It locked DOWN well, but it never got SNUG on those posts. And the metro experience with the older graphics controller was noticeably laggy compared to the Yoga 2 Pro, not nearly as smooth especially for things like Mahjonng and TapTiles (two games I love on Windows 8 touch devices). I also had image retention on it. Even the Retina MacBook Pro initially had IR and they replaced the LG screen with the Samsung screen and it went away completely. But it wasn't a big deal for me since with my background, I never noticed it. Even on my lock screen I couldn't see, it was only when I had a solid background such as the "enter your password" page that I would see these ghosted images of whatever had been there around the edges. Fortunately, in less than a minute they were gone anyway. But since I purchased the Helix with the intention of using it as a light tablet only at times, and never ended up using it that way, I got the TP Yoga.

Thinkpad Yoga - great feel, more solid than both the Helix and the Y2 Pro, although there's still more flex than I prefer in the base after all those years with the aluminum blocks on the MacBook Pros. But the trackpad is smaller than the helix, still has that annoying forced "always on" right click on the bottom right corner. I also had network drops, and wondered if it might be because of the Airport Extreme I used as my 802.11n base since this was now three Lenovo new laptops that all had the same issue. So I replaced it with an 802.11ac model from Asus, and all my drops went away on both the Helix and the TP Yoga. So I'm assuming that was the issue with the Yoga 2 Pro as well, something they don't like about the Apple Airport.

This screen is nice on this, far less reflective than the Helix was, which I am thankful for since that was as bad as the Mac, like a mirror. Fan isn't as obtrusive on the Thinkpad Yoga as well, although I used the thinkpad fan control on the Helix so it wasn't ultimately an issue there either. Keyboard feels good as you expect on a Thinkpad, exact same as I had on the Helix, just with backlighting this time. This anti glare mat on it gives it a different feel than the Helix - Helix was just glass, this has a slightly rougher feel to it, more akin to sliding your finger on paper. Some people like that, some don't. I'm split in the middle, so it's just something I'll get accustomed to, neither good or bad as far as I'm concerned.

First thing I did was swap the 180GB SSD for a 256 GB one (since the partner program I got this at a big discount through didn't have any of the models with a larger hard drive in the program and I preferred getting the big discount and spending a fraction of that price difference on a new SSD to install myself). That went without any issues.

One annoyance with the TP Yoga is the warranty. Helix came with a base 1 year depot warranty, and it only cost me $79 to upgrade it to 3 year next day onsite. The Thinkpad Yoga doesn't offer any 3 year like that, only a 2 year, and I *have* to have accidental breakage with it, so the 2 year on site next business day is $299. That really irritated me, such an insane price difference for a LESS EXPENSIVE unit.

Each one had its good points and bad points. I can see why various people would prefer any of them over the others. There are things I'd like to take off of each to make one perfect system. But at this point of my evolution I'm happy where I've landed. The Thinkpad Yoga is working out well so far, much more sturdy feeling when you flip the screen around compared to the Yoga 2 Pro. The keyboard lock thing isn't an issue for me, I never understood why people had such a problem feeling keys move under their hands when holding the Yoga 2 Pro. I had the same thing with the Surface Pro and until people complained with the Y2 Pro, it never even crossed my mind to even NOTICE it. But I guess some people just like that unmoving surface when their hands are underneath it so the Thinkpad Yoga certainly takes care of that complaint.

Now I just have to sell the Helix, only 2 months old so shouldn't be much of an issue with the huge discount I'm selling it for since I paid so little for it comparatively. But in the meantime I can flip between the Yoga and the Helix as I want.

I hope this one remains as trouble free for me as it's been so far.

 

I'm looking at the price difference between a model with a dedicated SSD and a model with a 7200rpm HDD + 16GB SSD cache and I'm wondering how big a performance difference there would be.

 

I've since exchanged the original Thinkpad Yoga I purchased for a new one. Unfortunately, this new one has the same problem. I don't know if it comes out clear in the video I've attached, but on the right hand side of my desktop, the image 'waves' before finally becoming static (after about 10-15 seconds). I'm inclined to believe that this is the watermarking problem that people are talking about on this forum, but it could be an altogether different problem. The image on my desktop is pixelated, which could explain the 'waviness' on the top right side of the desktop. (I don't mean to put anyone off of this device. It really is remarkable. But this problem with the screen is unacceptable.)

 

Hmm...

I'm not quite sure if I see it, but is the affected area that bright looking spot in the top right that extends to about a third of the screen horizontally and half of it vertically?

Can you run this test for the full 10 minutes and post your results? This is a similar test to the one I used to show the severe retention. Curious to see if this is related - on mine I see no such spot, but I have ghosting (refer to my earlier post).
In particular, does it retain the image at all, across the entire screen, or just that one "wavy" area?

Retina MBP (rMBP) image-retention test

 

guys thanks a lot. Now I'll have to figure out whether is worth buying the i7 or not and find a reliable to store to buy it in NY, as lenovo decided to increase the price significantly (if you have one please let me know).
I really do not understand their pricing, 1st they have very low price points, then they increase with millions of offer to put them down, they leave them up..Hope that someone in their marketing 101 studied the difference between baseline and incremental sales. Thanks once again!

 

As I told a couple times on the forum, I bought mine from the Microsoft Store at the local mall. I saved about 400 (Canadian) dollars by doing so. They have 10% student discount. I suggest you check their online store and physical store if there is one where you live. They have very limited configurations but I found exactly the one I wanted so I went for it. Mine is this and it has a digitizer, though it doesn't say on the page: Buy Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga Touchscreen 2 in 1, Intel Core i5 - Microsoft Store Canada Online Store

 

I've tried the test, and they're is, indeed, some image retention, though it is not nearly as obtrusive as the problem that occurs when I switch between apps and my desktop. I've now been able to replicate this problem on three different Lenovo Thinkpad Yogas, and, unless my Microsoft Store just got a bad batch, I'd wager that anyone else can replicate the problem I am experiencing. If any of the other forum users care to (dis)confirm my suspicion, my background image can be found here:

BBC Dangerous Knowledge Documentary - Logic Nest - The site of Ian Luke Kane. Thoughts on mathematics, logic, and life. The beauty therein and the strangeness of it all.

It is not merely a 'bright looking spot', but rather the desktop background slowly becoming static. What you will need to do to observe this problem on your own unit is to switch from a browser window, or really any other window that is different in color from the desktop, and after about 3 seconds of the desktop being displayed you will start to see the 'waviness' I'm talking about. I think I mentioned this previously, but the problem seems to be worse with some colors, grey especially, and with pixelated images, like the one I'm using as a desktop background. But I've also noticed this problem in a number of other settings, like when I'm viewing a movie.

On a different note, I, like D_Toronto, purchased my Yoga at a physical Microsoft Store. I can't imagine why anyone would want to pay $400 (approx.) more through Lenovo for the same unit.

 

A huge difference.

Why do you think Apple doesn't bother putting a 7200 RPM HDD + 16 GB SSD cache in their laptops?

 

Lenovo has coupons all the time. Lenovo isn't Apple...

If you know what coupon to use (at the right time) , it could be cheaper to buy directly from Lenovo instead of the MS store.

 

I only mean to be slightly snarky, but with Microsoft's student discount, you save 30% by buying through Microsoft. Without the student discount, it is still 25% cheaper to buy through Microsoft. If Lenovo is offering you such large coupons, then good on you, but the best they offered me was 15%. (Of course, there are scenarios in which it is cheaper to buy from Lenovo. And certainly some people will want to customize their units. But for the specific iteration I purchased, I think it is improbable that it can be had for cheaper through Lenovo.)

 

Hi,

already checked and they have only the i5 version, but their base price beats hands down lenovo's. Unfortunately I am looking for the i7, there isn't that much difference with the i5, but I'd like to have that extra push as i buy one pc every 4 years.

 

Hey all, I finally jumped on the TP Yoga bandwagon this week, and after using it for a few days I wanted to share my thoughts:

My Yoga has the 4300u, 4GB, 180GB SSD, and the Wacom digitizer. I camped for a few weeks and ultimately got it lightly used on eBay for $1100. I seriously considered the Microsoft store's SKU, but it would have cost me about $1200 shipped for slightly lower specs. The same specs from Lenovo would have cost even more, even with the Barnes and Noble discount.

The Good:

The only reason I buy convertible tablets is for drawing/digital art. I had been using an x220t for far too long, and having bought and tested the x230t and the Helix, the Yoga is the first ThinkPad tablet that has been meaningfully better in all the dimensions I care about. The x230t offered no meaningful improvement in size, weight, battery life, or screen resolution. The Helix improved upon size, battery life, and screen resolution, but the weight (tablet and dock) was only marginally less. The gimmicky conversion mechanism was also much more inconvenient for no added benefit as I don't have a use for the tablet by itself. The Yoga isn't quite an x240t, but it finally hits all of those check boxes.

The weight of the unit is exactly as quoted: 3.5lbs. Idle power drawing is something like 3.5W-4W, which suggests an idle runtime of something in the 11 to 12 hour range. Even under normal use, it's definitely got close to enough runtime to last a full work day. This is really good compared to the 3.8lb x220t (with the 3-Cell), which got maybe 3 hours.

The default fan profile is the best I have seen since my trusty HP TC4200. While it isn't quiet when running, it only comes on when the system is under load, and it turns off almost immediately after the load is removed. I don't even need to use TPFC, which is crazy for someone who is perpetually perturbed by poor default fan profiles. Despite the fan being off almost all the time, the laptop doesn't really get all that warm; this is presumably mainly due to Intel doing a good job with Haswell, but it's something!

To my surprised, the conversion mechanism, while in my opinion still a little gimmicky and awkward, is at least as convenient as the swivel hinge of the traditional convertibles.

The clickpad, while still not as good as discrete buttons, is the best implementation I have seen so far between the x220/230t, Helix, and t440s/p.

Hinges are not quite as stiff as single-acting hinges, but they aren't crazy flimsy, and overall build quality seems fine.

1080p is awesome. Many pixels. Such DPI. Wow.

The Bad:

Still weighs 3.5lbs and has a fairly large bezel, and thus a fairly large footprint for a 12" laptop. I would love to have it be 11" or at least fit the same physical dimensions as the x240.

For me, Lift n Lock is even more gimmicky than the conversion method, and I would again much rather have a marginally thinner and lighter machine.

The keyboard feels alright, but the travel is pretty shallow... if this is because of Lift n Lock, I second what I just said about LnL.

A Clickpad, no matter how good, is still worse than discrete buttons.

I don't think I have any ghosting, but I do have a little bit of the digitizer distortion where drawing straight lines doesn't actual get you straight lines. In addition, there is still more distortion along the edges reminiscent of, but not as bad as the infamous x220/230t edge tracking issues. I really wish they would try to do a better job implementing the digitizer; since the x220t the digitizer quality has just been so poor. This is really the biggest gripe for me since I only use the tablet mode for digital art. The lack of "erasing" is just rubbing salt in the wound.

Maybe I have weird hands, but the tiny stock pen is really hard to hold. I am using the an the old pen from the x60/61/200/201t.

I don't like the new power tip because it can't rotate, but at least you can get adapters cheap now.

The Mediocre:

Port selection is mediocre.

Well, that's all I got for now. I figure most people probably have their opinions set by this time, but I figure every additional opinion helps.

 

You most likely have an early model without the digitiser firmware fix. There was a black-hole issue on early devices.

Here is the link: Digitiser Firmware Update

 

I understand. They seem to have one i7 configuration online but it shows as out of stock for long time.

 

Earlier in this thread, some folks asked about sleeves/cases for the Thinkpad Yoga. I was looking for a temporary one around the house until I bought a real one online, but I came across my old Leed's portfolio that I got for free from a business event over 10 year ago. It's a common promotional item and looks like this:

Amazon.com: Executive Portfolio - Essential Piece: Office Products
Promotional Padfolios | Leed's DuraHyde Promotional Padfolio

To my surprise, after removing the notepad from the folio, it's a PERFECT fit. Literally, the dimensions seem to match the Thinkpad Yoga exactly. No wiggle room, the zipper even follows the curves of the laptop, even looks "business-y". Plus, it's practical: you can keep papers, a Bamboo stylus, etc in order. No place to store your power adapter, but none of the cases are really practical for that.

Just throwing it out there, especially since you might already have one. It doubles as just a regular resume/business portfolio, which of course, was what it was meant to be.

 

I am coming from an X61T bougth in 2007 (if I remember correctly) now an X220T (bought few years ago).
Now I feel is time to change.

The successor SHOULD be the Thinkpad Yoga.

Just wondering, are there better alternatives?

 

I had high hopes for this when I read your post... but my unit was made in January and it already has the latest firmware

I'll quote myself here:

The only reason I buy convertible tablets is for drawing/digital art. I had been using an x220t for far too long, and having bought and tested the x230t and the Helix, the Yoga is the first ThinkPad tablet that has been meaningfully better in all the dimensions I care about. The x230t offered no meaningful improvement in size, weight, battery life, or screen resolution. The Helix improved upon size, battery life, and screen resolution, but the weight (tablet and dock) was only marginally less. The gimmicky conversion mechanism was also much more inconvenient for no added benefit as I don't have a use for the tablet by itself. The Yoga isn't quite an x240t, but it finally hits all of those check boxes.

So in my opinion, at least in the ThinkPad lineup, I don't think there is anything better (yet?)

 

I've been doing some experimenting with the screen on my latest Thinkpad Yoga, using different background images to check image retention, ghosting, or whatever you want to call it, and it appears that the problem is most apparent with pixelated images, or images of pixels. The MBR image retention test uses large squares to reveal the problem; however, if you find a similar desktop background with squares roughly 1/10th the size of those on the MBR test, you'll notice what I've described as a 'waviness' while the image normalizes. This is particularly annoying, and seemingly unavoidable, given that so many of the images we view during normal use have noticeable pixelation. What I've noticed is that if the pixelation is uniform over the entire desktop, there is something noticeably wrong with the display, though it is hard to pinpoint exactly what it is, but when there is a clear break in the desktop background from pixelated to not-so-pixelated, like in the image in the video I posted a few pages back, what you experience is an offensive 'waviness'. I don't really care about screen resolution, to be sure, but I do want a usable screen, and I'm not sure that the screen on the Yoga is even usable.

 

Just asking, did you find out it has the latest firmware by trying to install this firmware fix and it saying your already on the latest version? Or just assume its on the latest version due to your BIOS being up to date and the laptop being built after January?

Just to be thorough in case you don't realise, the firmware that this patches is no related to the BIOS at all. Otherwise its weird to have your issue as I definitely don't suffer from that bendy line problem and haven't heard of others having it, especially as I use my laptop for taking notes in uni lectures a lot.

 

You are the only person who suffers from this "waviness". NOBODY who has posted about ghosting has noted it as this before which makes me think you have an issue that's different to the others.

 

Yup.avi

It's definitely nowhere near as severe as some of the black holes that have been posted - just a little bit here and there and mostly toward the edges - and not really a deal breaker; it's just unfortunate that the quality isn't amazing.

 

You tried doing the 273 point calibration? Also do you have the Wacom Feel drivers installed?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

I haven't been bothered enough to try the many, many point calibration, but I may try it when I have some time. I do have the latest Feel drivers installed.

 

Many thanks for your answer, yes in the Lenovo family I think is the best.

Taking into consideration other brands (Dell, Fujitsu, Sony, other) ???

p.s. I know it's a Lenovo forum, but just wondering if there is a clear winner also from other brands

 

If you purchase or have purchased the ThinkPad Yoga, make sure you stop Discovery.exe with Task Manager and delete the Lenovo Storage Connector program using the Control Panel. Believe me when I tell you that it cratered my firm's network and my home network. I thought I was having internet issues and used my Verizon wireless hotspot on my phone and after a couple days of use, I had gone through over 16GB of data.

It is hard to believe that this program got through QA/QC. It acts like a bot and it is relentless.

On April 9th, Lenovo posted this same recommendation.

 

Try going to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Synaptics\SynTP\TouchPadSMB2c and changing RightButtonZoneT to 0, maybe restart.

 

Go to Graphics Properties, select Power and then Maximum Performance, also turn off Display Power Saving option. This solved some visual weirdness for me.

 

The Fujitsu Lifebook T904 is better as a tablet but slightly worse as a laptop.

Some pros of the T904:
User removable battery
Bigger and higher res screen ( 13.3" at 2560 x 1440)
Better digitizer?
Uses a standard convertible tablet style that's been used for over 6 years.

Some cons of the T904:
Worse keyboard
Single Channel memory

 

More questions about my laptop....

I got the 128GB SSD. I've used up much of the space already. So, a few questions:

1. I heard some models utilize an M.2 cache. If I got a MyDigitialSSD 128GB M.2 42mm cache, can I utilize this as a hard drive?
2. What other SSDs have people upgraded with? Will any 7mm SSD work?

And a side questions:
3. Did anyone else notice Maxthon Cloud Browser on their computer? I've never used this browser and thought it was a rather odd application to have.

 

I would say it has a better screen in terms of quality but that higher resolution is a disadvantage big time. Windows desktop just DOESNT scale well and 1080p is as high as my eyes can comfortably go at 11-13" with 1:1 scaling, and I'm 20 years old so I imagine anybody older then me (30's or 40+) will probably find 1080p at 1:1 eye strainingly small at this size. Also the fact that it has single channel memory but a higher resolution just asks for trouble, the iGPU is crippled severely yet it has more pixels to push. Never going to end well.

Another con is its considerably higher price for a machine that has some very stupid design limitations like single channel memory and a worse keyboard, I also heard reports of it having fan troubles but haven't really researched into it.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

I don't know the answer to 1, but you can definitely replace the stock drive with another 2.5" 7mm drive. I think I did see the Maxthon app on the factory image, but I uninstalled basically everything on said image.

 

1. Yes but they are a little bit power hungry so you might get a slight battery hit.

2. Yes, any 7mm SSD will work just be sure to clone the original SSD and then flash that image to the new SSD before swapping them over and search this thread for the Recovery partition fix.

P.s. Step 2 is a much better option as a Samsung 840 Evo 500Gb-1Tb is a hell of a lot faster and more power efficient then the stock drive and an m.2 SSD. I am contemplating that upgrade but I might ask Lenovo how much they charge to do it for me for warranty reasons.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

is there any way to get a 9.5mm drive in there if you remove some padding or the metal drive caddy?

 

How much better is the Yoga from the x220T (please note I do NOT use the tablet for drawing purposes)

 

What are the specs of your X220t? For example , does your X220t have 16 GB of RAM? If it does , you will have to take a downgrade if you get the Yoga.

The ThinkPad Yoga can have a max of 8 GB of RAM (soldered).

You are getting a thinner form factor and better screen as well as decent battery life without the laptop being too bulky.

The ULV core i5 4200 is a little slower than the i5 3320m that was offered in the X230t and the equivalent i5 in the X220t isn't much slower than the i5 3320m so in terms of CPU performance , you might not notice a difference. You are definitely getting an upgrade in the iGPU department though.

 

Just got my TPY
Pretty amazed with the keyboard, got a couple questions though:
1) The fan sounds like a machine gun when i tilt the laptop at certain angles and also when it is powering up. Any Advice?
2) The brightness level changes automatically- how can i disable this?
3) Where can I adjust the clickable area of the trackpad
4) How can I switch the Fn and the Ctrl keys?


For some reason my 4years old Thinkpad edge 14 looks brighter than this-- normal?

Thanks alot

 

1. When the fan is spinning fast holding it at an angle causes a slight clicking, pretty sure its just the ball bearings in the fan, shouldn't cause an issue as its only at an odd angle and usually only when the fan is spinning fast etc.

2. Control Panel -> Power Options -> Change Plan Settings -> Change Advanced Power Settings -> Display -> Enable Adaptive Brightness

3. Control Panel -> Mouse -> ThinkPad Tab

4. Turn the laptop off properly 'Shut Down' Power it on while holding the Enter button and you will be in the BIOS. The option to switch the keys are somewhere in there, can't remember exactly but there aren't many options

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

I am pretty sure he was referring to the digitiser pen experience of the Yoga compared to the X220t

But the comparison you gave will be helpful I am sure.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

Well, it depends on what you care about... for a lot of people the biggest dings on the Yoga are the fact that the max CPU/RAM combination on the x220t is faster/bigger than the max CPU/RAM combination on the Yoga. A lot of people also dislike the new keyboard/clickpad (especially the clickpad). In my opinion everything else is substantially better, though.

"How much better" is hard to say overall, but there are some hard numbers you can use: it's like 10% to 15% lighter depending on your battery configuration; it gets 3 to 2 time as much battery life; there are twice the number of pixels in the same screen area, etc, etc...

 

I have the 256GB SSD but I came from a 500GB drive. One of the first things I did was to embrace cloud storage where I could. I am using MS OneDrive to store all of my files for my business. The nice thing (other than saving space) is the ability to access them without having my laptop. Just a thought.

 

Hi,
I kept my original stock 500GB HDD for warranty issues and did a clean install on a 256 samsung 830 ssd. Now sometimes i get random volume drops when i listening to music or watching a movie. I cant really reproduce it, it just happens time to time and i have to go to volume options and find the program i using and restore the volume level there. Really strange. Anybody else gets this?

 

Hey guys, I've updated the touchpad driver, changed the settings in the control panel, but there are alot of instances when a click is not registered. Any way to fix this? Any special settings?
Thanks

 

Dunno if this is your issue, but I've found that the best way to ensure a click registers is to pick your finger completely off the clickpad before a click.

 

Does anyone have experience with different styluses (stylii?) and the Thinkpad Yoga? I take a lot of handwritten notes on mine and the tiny stylus that comes with the laptop is not very comfortable. I was looking for a larger stylus (pen sized) with pressure sensitivity. Having an erasure at the back-end of the stylus would be nice too.

 

I am using the old pen from the x60t to x230t machines. Obviously it doesn't fit in the holder, but it's way more comfortable to use. Any Wacom tablet PC pen should work. As far as I know, the digitizer implementation doesn't support erasing from any pen, though...

 

That seems to have improved it.
Another quick question:
Sometimes, the a webpage won't load, but refreshing it straight away and then it loads. Something wrong with the wireless driver?

 

I have been using this one. It works great (including the eraser), and is much more comfortable to use.

 

Thanks pwanamaker! I will give that one a shot - is there anything I need to enable in Windows to get the eraser to work properly?