T440s up on Lenovo website (IPS Screen, 1080p)

Mobile cpu's cost about 20-30$ more expensive than their equivalent category ULV.
Additionally, with ULV CPUs it's a SoC, so it includes the cost of the chipset. With mobile CPUs, the OEM has the additional chipset costs.
Moreover Intel continues to subsidize the cost of ultrabooks and not mobile cpus. Lenovo makes a higher profit on these ultrabooks.
So if you considered me (dumb) that makes you what? ....an (idiot?)

 

Can I humbly suggest that we keep terms like (dumb) and (idiot) out of this interesting discussion, since using them is likely to get this thread locked in no time...

 

I agree. Many of us wish the new ThinkPads had 16:10 displays, full-row keyboards of old, trackpoint buttons, extra room here and there for extra storage or RAM, indicator lights, easy access to the internals, and upgrades galore when purchasing our CTO models. But lets also stop dreaming and look on the bright side.

The T440s has a good form factor, full HD IPS/VA display, relatively good & backlit keyboard, stiff overall chassis (stiffer than the T43/T61 era for sure), excellent battery life, new docking station, and is upgradable/modifiable (they haven't gone totally Apple on us). Assuming the trackpad/button holds up and it's offered with the 703M GPU, I think it's a legitimate contribution to the ThinkPad brand....then again, we were all hoping they'd blow it out of the park...T440p please?

 

Not only do they have the chipset cost but also the cost of engineering the pcb since it will require more traces than a SOC design, then also the materials for the pcb, copper, more layers, etc.

 

Sorry but the CPU still cost the same. What is different is that the Haswell ULV now comes with the chipset integrated. Please do your research on CPU prices before commenting on prices next time.

 

To each his/hers own, but once they've changed the keyboard layout there is *no* bright side for me to see. They could shove a DC-grade WQXGA panel on the new W540, I wouldn't take it for free.

Going back to high-resolution IPS is definitely a step up.

However, the whole TrackPoint/touchpad scenario is a step down in my book, and a huge one at that.

The big picture is that the T440p is likely to be a ThinkBook Pro, and that's something I have below zero interest in.

 

Also, this is suppose to be an ultrabook-like so stop complaining that it isn't a workstation. I think you don't understand the concept of portable and long battery life.

 

How does a Macbook-like design affect battery life? LOL.

And the T440 (non s) is not supposed to have ULV.

 

Who was complaining?

Everyone got that aspect figured out. The problem here is, a ThinkPad name calls for more than just that, which is something that remains a foreign concept to both Lenovo management and yourself.

 

Yes agreed, ultrabooks are much more profitable for Lenovo. Unfortunately our little friend Jr here has a reading comprehension problem.

He claims he's not a Lenovo employee yet joined the forum just a few days ago and with only 21 posts, 5 of which proclaim Lenovo as #1 in PC shipments

 

Well said, and thank you!

 

I was talking about the use of a ULV processor to achieve greater battery life.

And this thread is about the T440s. I am however surprise the T440 has a ULV. I think it should have been a mobile CPU.

 

The Thinkpad design language calls for a simple and minimalistic design. What makes the T440s not a Thinkpad? It still maintain the reliability, the trackpoint, the roll cage (which not all Thinkpad have), and the upgradeability.

 

Thank you. Nice form factor, still the best keyboard, you guys (we) got the screen you wanted, still good quality and battery life. Stay positive people companies and overall industries will change over time. Let's not compare everything to Apple. From what I remember other PC companies even back in the day were not as serviceable. And still few companies have the quality of Thinkpads. Let's keep this a T440s forum and not a Keyboard forum, or ULV vs Mobile forum.

 

A fair statement.

Its uncanny resemblance to the school of design that Apple is known for.

How exactly would you know anything about the reliability of the T440s at this point in time?

What now stands for a TrackPoint is a joke. Not a good one at that.

Rollcage has *always been* no more than a very clever marketing ploy.

Upgradeability? With soldered RAM? I thought we were done with that nonsense when the old 240 series were buried, but I guess not...

 

Can we please cut off this unproductive discussion? We get it, you don't like the T440s, can you please make your own whining thread and leave the rest of us in peace? Acting like Lenovo is out to personally insult you is really not useful for anyone. And since the T440p specs have not been announced there is zero reason to bash it.

And FWIW generally ULV CPUs are more expensive because they're higher binned silicon (running at lower voltages requires better tolerances). They're not trying to rip you off or something, that's just preposterous. I'm a bit disappointed about the trackpoint buttons too but I think it's a solution that could prove to be better with some refinement.

 

Complaints include the following
Why does this have a ULV CPU?
Why does this only have one RAM slot accessible?
Why does this not have the trackpoint button? (...larger trackpad)
Why doesn't it have a 16x10 display?
Why does it use drop hinge? (even though they are still stainless steel)
Why does it have a smaller battery compared to the MBA?

 

Great comment. I wish this thread was less bashing and more productive. Lenovo has many Thinkpad laptop and only announce three and people are acting like it is the end of the Thinkpad Brand.

 

All of these are legitimate complaints in my book, whether I personally agree with them or not...

OK, three years or so too late...I see your point here.

OK, see your point here as well.

Well, if they're taking Apple head-on as they would like to, this is another legitimate question.

 

That isn't a good answer as to why this isn't a Thinkpad. I would agree the T440s isn't a classic Thinkpad but a modern ThinkPad.

The T440s was Mil-Spec tested so the reliability is proven. You can still add one stick of RAM and your own HDD. What else can you ask of an ultrabook-like laptop?

 

Because *real* ThinkPads were not a copy of anything else that already existed on the market. They were the ones that were copied by other manufacturers.

Hogwash.

Many ThinkPads of the past have passed those, and have proven to be less-than-reliable in the long run.

Some of us have *very* long memories when it comes to these black (once) beauties.

 

This thread was going pretty well until the official announcement a few days ago. Then it just escalated by people who have/had no intentions of buying one.

 

ULV CPU? Because this is an ultrabook. In a few years from now, all laptops will be ultrabooks. But look at ultrabooks today compared to ultrabooks 3 years ago. Today, these ULV processors can actually compete with mobile processors if it has the RAM and an SSD. (unlike the days of the netbook)

One slot of RAM? The RAM maxes out 12 GB, which is more than plenty. Any more and you're probably also going to be looking at a dedicated GPU, full core i7, and advanced cooling - all qualities of a workstation, not ultrabook

16x10 display? I'm sorry, but you're 5 years too late. Although you do have a point here. Windows 8 with 16x9 is currently atrocious in portrait mode, a taller screen is really needed.

Drop hindge? I don't see what the argument is here. Why are drop hindges inferior to the old ones. As far as I know, not only the old hindges made the machine thicker, it also gave an impression that the screen was pointing away from the user. Also since the screen will lay flat on the table when completely opened, dosen't that make it even more rigid? Also, the hidge allowed the keyboard to be moved back a little. This give machines like the X240 extra room on the plam rest (which is quite good)

No trackpoint buttons? OK THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. They want to remove the trackpint buttons? Fine. Make the clickpad replacement utter ? NO. My biggest rant is that even though the buttons were removes, there was still space left to accomodate them.

Smaller battery than the MBA? THIS IS ALSO UNACCEPTABLE. This is simply a fail to provide a large battery in a larger machine. Also, with the 3+6 battery that sticks out at the bottom, it STILL DOES NOT BEAT THE MBA. I want an explanation.

 

People act like it's the end every year. So basically, nothing has changed.

 

Fact of the matter is most users want long battery life in a slim and light weight package, especially in industry. Most people also don't care about bragging rights. I've been using Thinkpads for almost 10 years, and I'm one of those people. I don't like the design change, whether aesthetically or to the keyboard or touchpad. But they're now giving me FHD, 3.5lbs, 21mm thick and all day battery life. I can't say no to that when I need a 13-14" notebook.

Say what you want about Apple products, but their OS is fantastic. If they sold a 13 or 14" model with higher vertical display resolution than 800p, I'd buy a MBP Retina. I'm still contemplating the Haswell MBP.

The X220 was a homerun for the time, one of the few products I've ever purchased that I've been completely satisfied with. It's got everything but a high-res display. Frankly at that size, I think even the resolution is fine. If I wasn't going to be away from the external monitor all the time going forward, I'd have kept it very happily. I wouldn't have replaced it with an X240(s).

 

What? RAM has nothing to do with a GPU, and for many application is the most significant performance factor. Your generalization is just bizarre, and Lenovo's choice to not include a model which supports 16GB is not so easily excused.

 

Basically the T440s is a complete fail. It's a thick & chunky ultrabook that's 0.5lb heavier, 15% less battery capacity, weaker GPU that can't even keep up with a Macbook Air.
The casing has also lost it's renowned Thinkpad midnight black appeal with a cheap plastic looking grey.

The X1 Carbon was slightly thicker than an MBA. Here's a good comparison photo of how much bigger & bulkier the T440s is compared to the X1.


Then there's the horrible clacking sounds from the T440's disastrous new touchpad.


They're trying to imitate Apple, but they're failing so badly and destroying the brand in the process.
Anyone that doesn't see that doesn't really understand what a Thinkpad stands for.

 

I'd like to offer my opinion of why there is so much negativity here so everyone can understand where some of us are coming from.

Fans of classic ThinkPads, myself included, are really FRUSTRATED with the direction Lenovo has taken. Lenovo has taken a big step forward (AHVA panel) yet eliminated MANY genuinely useful/necessary features, many of which distinguished ThinkPads from ordinary laptops.

The ThinkPad brand used to stand for something above and beyond the competition, but this is arguably no longer the case.

The PROBLEM is that there are no good alternatives for us to turn to, so we're forced to make big compromises. Other brands all have major flaws and/or limitations, so we're stuck with LESS functional machines whether we stick with ThinkPads or not. That's NOT progress.

 

lol. you are so funny.

 

For the sake of everyone who ends up buying a T440s, I do hope that this video clip is a hoax. That looks/sounds absolutely horrendous.

QFT, with one small correction:

Instead of "stands for" it should read "used to stand for..."

 

Sorry to break the news to you, but since I made that video myself, it is not a hoax. I made one on the T431s as well a while back.

 

Oh well...that settles the issue then...

 

I am planning to get this when it comes out. There is too much speculation at the moment I think. I am a newbie, but I can't hear the difference in the sounds between the old thinkpad x301 vs the new t431s? If I was to make a guess, the t431s keyboard sounded better?

 

600X, you've mentioned the inconvenient positioning on the Trackpoint "buttons" a few times.

I seem to recall reading that these were programmable; I understood that to mean that the button hotspots could be defined in software somewhere. Did you look at the driver settings at all?

Can a user define new zones for the buttons to make them more comfortable? Seems like a good driver UI feature, much like defining mouse sensitivity, customizing buttons, or setting mouse orientation. This would seem critical given peoples' differently-sized hands, and lack of the tactile feedback that normally comes from real buttons.

Anything? Or more pipe dreams to be shattered? ;-)

 

None of the trackpoint buttons on any of my Thinkpads have made a clacking sound. In fact, the buttons have always been near totally silent, even on the 1-month old X230 on which I'm composing this post.

 

Lenovo has said that you can customize the zone of the buttons. I used to be able to do this easily with a synaptic touchpad before. It is all software controlled so it should be easy to adjust the sensitivity and zones on the touchpad.

 

Here is a different video that shows how the new TrackPoint buttons work:

The buttons of my R50e are very loud, equally with the new design I would say.

Thats not something you decide, the USERS will decide that.

 

Linux does not have any configurable drivers. I couldn't test that part. Though if what you say is true, it surely would contribute to a better usability. However, let's say you make all trackpoint buttons smaller, the left and right click will have to overlap with the scroll button. Sou you will need to make that smaller as well. And by then, you won't be able to tell on which button your finger is on even if you look at the trackpad.

As for the klicking noises, the old touchpad buttons were indeed very quiet, hardly audible at all. The new touchpad is louder and more annoying in my opinion, though this is the least of my concerns.

 

Do you mean the touchpad isn't usable as trackpoint buttons, or not at all? Isn't it a synaptics pad like in the T431s that can be configured via standard x.org settings?

I guess I could live with only a touchpad for the time being, but having no built-in pointing device that's usable with linux certainly wouldn't be acceptable.

 

When it comes to Linux, I'm the wrong guy to ask. All I know is the Linux drivers are very twitchy, the pointer doesn't hold still at all. (which is a problem if you want to klick something because how can you click something when the pointer moves somewhere else when you press the button?)

 

Totally agree. Actually I can understand that some people will threw a tantrum when their favorite features are removed haha.

 

How was the linux experience generally? Which distro was running?

Ubuntu seem to think that there will be no problems with this model (bar the bluetooth)... Ubuntu on Lenovo ThinkPad T440s | Ubuntu

 

Well yes, and no. I believe the T440s will be selling like hot cakes (actually, they already are in the campus stores), and Lenovo will use that data to claim that users are ecstatic about their ingenious trackpoint button "solution", and other not-so-great design decisions.

Personally, I'm very likely to buy a T440s. But I really don't like the way the thinkpad keyboard and trackpoints have been changed. I don't like sacrificing RAM slots for slimness, in fact, even if this thing was a whole 5mm thicker (without being significantly heavier), I wouldn't complain at all. You could fit a lot of RAM in that space, and have a much larger battery that doesn't stick out at all -- that would be heavier, of course, but not more so that the external one.

I'm buying because it's the first thinkpad in *years* that has a decent screen, and the competition is still less upgradeble (I need a full size 2.5" HDD). But you can't use sales data to claim that specific changes are liked by the majority, only that the whole package is good enough to sell well.

 

It was running Kali Linux.

The overall experience was OK, like I said touchpad wasn't usable and the SD card reader didn't work either. Wireless connections also didn't work. For now I just recommend using Windows till newer distros come out.

 

Ultrabook is about thickness and weight, so sacrificing one RAM slot is ok here (though there should be a slim non-ultrabook version with two RAM slots, standard processor and larger battery).

Everything is a matter of personal expectations, for example I'd like a machine with:
-normal trackpoint
-7-row keyboard
-16:10 matte IPS screen (it doesn't have to be FullHD, 1440x900 would be enough)
-HD 5000 (no I don't trust Nvidia after 2 of my Nvidia cards broke down at the same time - NVS in T61, bricking it, and 7900 in my PC)
it could also be black, it's a Thinkpad and not some Dell.
Actually I'd be happy with a thinner T61 without CDROM, with better screen and running some 6-8 hours on battery. And this imperfect T440s is probably the best match.

 

Not surprising then, Kali is designed for penetration testing of computer networks, not consumer use.

Windows is not really an option for me professionally, but Lenovo have a pretty good track record with linux so I'm sure it'll be fine.

 

This last sentence is very true and very well reasoned. My only "complaint" is the trackpoint but some people trackpad users will be happy. Everything thing else is all Thinkpad to me. Can't wait for the screen. Your entire post had a great tone. It's like people can be critical but don't have to complain.

 

Ya think?

 

Lenovo has focus groups and talks to a lot of their users. They talk to classic ThinkPad users, business user, current users and next gen users. Lenovo is compromising some features in order to gain others.