T440s up on Lenovo website (IPS Screen, 1080p)

can someone please explain this part for me (in simple terms that is)

I'm not familiar with this. Is the one 3cell firmly attached to motherboard and the other 3 cell is something like swappable DVD/2nd GPU/Caddy on Y500?

 

The second battery wouldn't be in a caddy, it would be a small battery just like any other traditional laptop.

 

so one hidden somewhere inside the chassis and one "conventional" ?

 

Yep, that is what it sounds like to me.

 

I don't see why anyone thinks this might be the case. It seems obvious to me the T440s replaces the T430s and T431s, and a T440 will replace the T430. The T440p should be a workstation-oriented version of the T440 with beefier GPU.

 

These are the guts of X230s that ships with 2 batteries as well:


T440s follows similar approach and you may find more info in the T440s Hardware Maintenance Manual pp. 63 and 69-70 at http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/t440s_hmm_en_sp40a25360.pdf where you'll see that internal battery hiddens under palm rest and swappable battery sits on the rear side:



Please visit T440s system parts page as well System service parts - ThinkPad T440s

Hope this made things clear

 

Keep in mind that the T431s is almost a direct equivalent to the T430u. ULV chips, no Ultrabay, 3 cell batteries. The 440s is the exact same lineage, except for the split-battery design.

All three of these are very far removed from both the T430 and T430s. Both of these are virtually identical innards - except one is a fair bit thinner and lighter, while absolutely not being an ultrabook.

I find it very hard to believe that they would make the T430 into the T440, make a 'bigger' T430 into the T440p, then leave a big gap in the middle between the ultrabook and a full size laptop, currently occupied by the T430s. It makes no sense. Furthermore, why would they make the T series more like a fully loaded workstation, when they already have the W series workstations?

 

If you look at the diagrams of the T440s. Some pictures show a secondary heatpipe, presumably for the GPU. While others show one heatpipe. Ultrabooks are not meant to have GPUs right?

 

Right. Please take a look at the motherboard components -- these are CPU and PCH, there is no dGPU signs at the moment:

(from the same T440s HMM, p. 78)

 

You're right that a T440p workstation doesn't fit in well with the W series.
I think the T431s was just a stopgap until Haswell became available. Since the T4x0s have been the lightweight versions of the T4x0 models, I don't see why Lenovo would change that. The Ultrabook slot is more properly filled by the X1 Carbon.
Perhaps I don't understand where the gap is?

 

Yes, the T431s was a stopgap - but it was a stopgap for the T430u, not the T430s. I have no idea why they changed the naming, other than perhaps they saw value in the T430u as a product but realised the new 'u' suffix was stupid. Perhaps the X1 Carbon is a better Ultrabook, but it is also considerably lighter and more expensive than the T431s and T440s.

So where is the gap? A T series with an 'M' CPU (i.e. non-ULV) and an Ultrabay, that is still as thin as possible. This is what the old T430s was, but is not covered by the new T440s which almost certainly has a ULV CPU and has no Ultrabay. Maybe you are right and that the current T430s has no direct successor. But to me, that is a lot of missed sales opportunities, including myself.

 

Just a guess but the "p" in the T440p could be ca Pacitative. So there will be a T440 with normal display and another one with multitouch?

 

Does this thing have thunderbolt?

 

Agreed. I am not terribly interested in a ULV processor, but I don't want to have to step back to the thickness of the non-"s" variant in order to get an 'M' CPU.

 

This is exactly how I feel. The T4x0s was the perfect combination of power, flexibility, and portability to me. I really hope either the T440 or T440p fills the place of the T430s--there's a huge gap without it.

 

The one interesting option is the i7-4558U. Technically it is a ULV, but with a 28W TDP: ARK | Intel® Core

But I still doubt this would fit within the thermal/battery constraints of the T440s.

 

someone mentioned earlier that the older P models were Pro models with faster cpus or something else. i cant recall what he said made them Pro.

 

Same processor options. They came with upgraded discrete graphics.

 

It would be interesting of one of the versions has a 1600x900 (or FHD) IPS, relatively high color gamut, 10 hours of battery at least and a full power CPU. Also, it would be better if it's under 4.5 lbs. and is thinner than the last version. Then that would be nice. However, the removal of the trackpoint area buttons is something that is major.

 

I sincerely hope lenovo take out the Optical drive in the Vanilla and P variants as well. That is the only way forward. Use the space for extra cooling and batteries.

In a year or two the HDD will need to go as well, but i can see why they might be hesitant for this release.

Does anyone know why Intel doesn't make any 37W quadcores that have vPRO? It seems thats the only reason why we never see a 37w quad in the T4xx series.

 

Also higher quality, higher resolution screens. I loved my T60p, but it did have some heat issues.

 

Same as last year, no vPRO on 37W quads

 

Well I was first sceptical for removing opticals, now I'm with you, that's the future BUT if that piece cost for customer like 100$, why they don't reduce laptop price in that amount or give a free USB 3.0 stick?

 

The reason the optical drives cost so much, besides being proprietary, is thinning them out. They're being sacrificed to make the laptop thinner, so it only makes sense that the cost of the optical is transferred to engineering the laptop itself. More advanced roll cages, cooling, and such. Yeap.

But yeah, the optical drives were overpriced. With the way laptops have come down in price over the years, I don't expect a magical $100 savings, though. We've already seen the T400s drop a ton since its inception.

 

The cost for Lenovo for an optical drive is probably around $15.

 

link is not accesible anymore

 

Google cache come to rescue

ThinkPad T440s Ultrabook Laptop | Lenovo | Lenovo (US)

 

I see the T440s follows the design direction of removing TrackPoint buttons, which I suppose makes sense in an Ultrabook.

I haven't heard any speculation on what keyboard/light options might come in a larger T440 or T440p...

As an exclusive TrackPoint user (I turn off the pad), I'm afraid the integrated buttons could be a deal killer for me. I've been waiting until the T440 announcement to decide on a new system for work, and it's essentially the last straw. I would mourn the loss of indicator lights, but could replace them with taskbar widgets if I need to. I don't think I could go without the buttons, based on the reviews I've read (words like "disaster" come up).

I have a T430 at home, and have adapted to the island keyboard's feel - it's actually pretty good. However, as a writer I curse the new location of PgUp/Dn and Home/End every time I need to use them and really lose productivity and accuracy because of it. Without dedicated buttons, assuming the reviews are right - that they're hard to press, "clicky", difficult to find, and fussy - the keyboard basically becomes unusable for me.

Is there any chance that a larger T440 will at least have an option for dedicated TrackPoint buttons? I'd gladly trade the weight for the buttons.

Or, has anyone on the forum used the T431s keyboard and actually liked the TrackPoint buttons integrated into the TrackPad?

 

Wow...this has just totally messed me up. I ordered a Y410p but now that they are finally coming out with a Thinkpad that has a nice display I may have to rethink everything. This T440s sounds like the machine that I have been waiting for. Any ideas what the T440 will be? Do you think it will basically be a T430 but with the Haswell updates and display updates? Same chassis or maybe a tad bit smaller? What do you think the T440p is???? Anyone know when these will be released?

Also, do you think that the IPS 1600x900 would be better? I imagine that 1080p on a 14 inch screen would be incredibly small and tough to read....Unless you can get the 1080p screen and switch the resolution to 1600x900 without adding black bars to the screen, then just switch to 1080p when you are running something that would benefit from it.

 

When I looked at the T440s pictures, I looked like it has the same keyboard as your T430. I don't care much about the trackpad buttons as I am an external mouse user.

 

You can get the external wired Thinkpad Compact USB keyboard ( ThinkPad Compact USB Keyboard with TrackPoint - Overview and Service Parts ) , which still has the normal TrackPoint. For desktop use it's more convenient anyway.

As to the option - seems very unlikely. Lenovo could have easily kept the previous keyboard layout in at least the larger T/W series ( there is anecdotal evidence it fits mechanically and even works except certain keys), but they chose not to. With 2 different trackpoints to support it would be a lot more work for Lenovo, so I wouldn't be expecting any mercy from the company who are ready to sacrifice a lot, including the complete keyboard row, to get the trackpad a bit larger.

 

Lenovo looks pretty insistent on "modernizing" the Thinkpads. I think you will start seeing a phase out of the old style touchpad with trackpoint buttons in favor of the integrated, larger touchpad. If you look at the timeline, Lenovo has slowly started this process. If you look at the X1 Carbon and the T430, they first implemented this with removing one set of the buttons and increasing the touchpad size. Now with the T431s and T440s it has moved totally in favor of a large touchpad with integrated buttons. I think this is the trend you will see also applied to the non-ultrabook models unfortunately. I liked the idea of the touchpad from the T430u, with one set of buttons and a larger pad. This would have been the best practice in my opinion, but we all know that everything else about the T430u was a complete failure. I am excited about the new Thinkpad, namely the screen, I just hope everything else is done well too. I'd hate to see them give a great screen finally but then screw up everything else.

 

I wonder if it would be an option to (as in previous Thinkpads) to disable the touchpad and only keep the TrackPoint enabled. If that were the case, then only the trackpad's right-click and left-click functions would remain, as if it were simple, normal mouse buttons.

 

That's what I'm afraid of. So sad, I would have pre-ordered the T440 on day 1. Now, I'll need to wait until the T440 is available in stores to test its usability and evaluate other options.

Call me crazy, but frankly I'd rather have a capacitive touch screen with a full TrackPoint and no TrackPad. Talk about a killer layout - with the extra room, they could go back to a full size keyboard. Oh well. Never. Gonna. Happen.

 

I guess I don't understand what differentiates a "modernized" ThinkPad from everything else on the market. I don't disagree with you, just question the strategy - competing on "feeds and speeds" is a losing battle, since margins go to zero pretty quickly. So what are the key differentiators that would make someone buy a ThinkPad vs. anything else? They all have trackpads, island keyboards, ultrabook form factors, roughly equivalent performance and (with Haswell, presumably) enough battery life to make the point moot (the difference between 9 hours and 10 hours isn't enough to drive a purchasing decision).

So why buy a ThinkPad T? It still has a VGA port?

I may be the only person on the planet that doesn't have a problem with the T430's screen. The 1600x900 resolution isn't so bad for my purposes, but I guess more is always better.

 

Yes, of course you still will be able Veto deactivate the Touchpad. In the BIOS as well as in the Windows Driver.

 

I hope so, or perhaps allow you to create active "zones" on the TrackPad that accomplishes the same thing. The Engadget article on the T431s ( article here) implies some enhanced features to support legacy users (or, as dismissively referred to in the article, "those who refuse to switch"):

The end result is a five-button clickpad, as it was detailed to me, which supports 20 gestures and handles northerly clicks for those who refuse to switch from using the aforementioned pointing stick.

In fact, it took Lenovo two solid years working lockstep with Synaptics to create a driver stack that would ensure optimal performance in this unique scenario...​

Fingers crossed...

Thanks Power7. Yes, for desktop use I use an external keyboard/mouse, though I avoid the mouse whenever possible. ;-)

My primary use case is (frequent) plane travel. I'm tall, so when crammed in a seat it's actually harder to shift my hands back towards my body to use a trackpad, or even the new pageup/pagedown buttons at the bottom right.

I'm one of those freaky outliers that, unfortunately, old-school ThinkPads were perfect for. I'm also very keyboard oriented, so yes - I use those function keys all the time (ctrl-F1 for show/hide the Ribbon; F2 to edit an Excel formula; F7 dictionary / Shift-F7 thesaurus in Word; F5 refresh; F9 calc; shift-F10 for context menu...etc.). Tall, big hands, strong enough to not care if I'm carrying a 6 pound laptop, but want it small enough to work on a plane (so no 15" screens/full size workstation laptops). TrackPoint user / track pad hater (on all systems). I like lights and indicators.

I'm not saying Lenovo should design around me, I'm just so disappointed that a system that had been such a perfect fit no longer will be -- and I'm not sure I can find another system as comfortable.

Obviously I'm passionate. Sorry for spamming the thread!

 

I could go many different directions with it. In a sense, Lenovo looks like they are trying to broaden the customer base of the Thinkpads, trying to get consumers interested in purchasing them as well. Its kind of idiotic in that approach though, since that is what their Ideapad line is for. It makes no sense to try and change much of the Thinkpad to accustom a consumer user as they are built for the purpose of business and enterprise. It would seem to me that they should be asking what people in the enterprise and business fields want in the Thinkpad, not trying to solely adopt consumer wants and needs. In my opinion, the screens on the last several generations and iterations of the Thinkpad, less the IPS equipped ones, are in lack of a better word, "horrible". I definitely see the need in them improving that. It just seems they are trying to do too much with their Thinkpads, and in my opinion they offer waaaaaaay too many different models.

A better approach that they should have done is allow the option of whether you want the new trackpad or if you want the traditional trackpad, or some other option in between. That way, the machines can be spec how the users will plan to use them, and would also make the design change a little smoother. I like the new design, and think they have done a lot right, but a lot wrong too. Something as simple as wifi and HDD access lights are gone...in an enterprise world I think that those are pretty important, although small details.

 

Couldn't agree more. I was so frustrated when I read the Lenovo design blog in which they described the process to "begin to integrate more consumer insight into our ThinkPad products, something we think will continue to make ThinkPad relevant to businesses and consumers for the next 20 years."

Don't they have 2 or 3 lines specific to consumers already? I'm not against change, but it just seems that the designers gave equal weight to input from all parties - "ThinkPad fans, non-Lenovo customers and young adults/millenials in the U.S., Mexico, Germany, France, Italy, Japan, China, India and Brazil" - and ended up making something that appeals to none of them.

The cynic in me can't help but notice that the minimalist aspects of "beautiful design" just happen to overlap with "lower cost of goods." Dedicated volume buttons clutter the look? Remove them (and the expense of extra buttons, since they can just double-team them with F-keys). Streamlined, modern design with no physical trackpoint/pad buttons? Coincidentally, they can now share the design across "consumer" and "business" laptops. Smaller keyboard, no lights...Which is really the priority, "new, more modern aesthetics" or cheaper products to produce? </cynic

Oh well, their choice - maybe they're right. The market will decide.

I know, right? But that would add significant manufacturing and supply chain costs...and as hopeful as I may be, I just think this is highly unlikely. Instead, it's so much easier for them to repeat the Steve Jobs-esque mantra that "options are evidence of a failed design" ( 1, 2, 3), cut out all the "unnecessary" pieces, and shoot for the very center of the bell curve of demand.

Oops, looks like I left off the closing bracket on my <cynic> tag! </cynic> OK, now I'm done.

Realistically, it all makes sense for Lenovo, and it's not just them. It's just that as a power user, I feel increasingly marginalized by the "simplicity in all things" philosophy that often leaves out the edge cases that I've come to rely on. Jobs contributed a lot as a counterbalance to an overly complex industry, but the pendulum can swing too far in either direction...

 

Another way to look at it is notebook sales are down across the board due to fierce competition from tablets and the fact that a notebook bought six years ago works just as well a new one for most things. Lenovo has to do something to staunch the tide. While it's true the IdeaPads are Lenovo's consumer based notebooks, ThinkPads have far greater name recognition, which makes them a better base to build from. It's just a different world, but Lenovo has to sell notebooks to stay in business.

 

i will need a real thinkpad user to test this option out. but then im also like to do scrolling with the middle button+trackpoint. with that kind of trackpad design. its very difficult to do scrolling with the middle button. again this is just assuming. anyone with t431s tried this option ? does it work well ?

 

Surprised that someone will miss the old trackpads, which many others have hated so much.

 

Actually like the new touchpad, but I think they should have used the one on the x1 carbon with dedicated buttons and still retain the much larger surface.

 

Just discovered this thread after seeing a couple of initial reviews on the T440s on UltraBookNews.com and elsewhere. Chatting with a sales rep on Lenovo.com yesterday was informed that the unit will release sometime in the next two months. Agreed on the statements about consumer versus business lines, definitely seeing a trend among Haswell machines of one soldered DIMM and only one slot upgradeable for a max to 12GB RAM. IPS will be nice, but the sweet spot for me is, will still be FHD IPS, 16GB RAM and a 2.5" SATA bay for the HDD so I can do memory and hard drive myself, and < 4 pounds. The T430u was a
disappointment in this regard and I'm giving up on my failed effort (experiment?) with a 15" Sony Vaio S series and going back to my trusty T430s w/16GB and 1.75TB of HDDs.

Keeping fingers crossed on this one. Will see if Lenovo can at least get it "mostly" right this time.

 

Guys, please help with making a decision on this. I need a reliable laptop for college, I have a Y410p right now but I am thinking about returning it. The performance is nice, but I worry about the build quality/durability, plus it eats battery as you can imagine and the glossy screen can be bothersome depending on the lighting and is almost unusable in certain circumstances outdoors.

I was thinking of waiting for the T440s to release, because I am sold on the IPS screen with either the 1600x900 or FHD and the performance sounds decent too. But I am worried about when this notebook will be released since nothing is announced officially and school will start soon. Should I continue to wait for the new T440s or just jump on the T431s? The other thing I wonder is I have no idea what the cost is going to be for the T440s, and perhaps I can haggle on the T431s by being aware of its soon to be replacement. Anyone's thoughts would be appreciated.

As for my usage, it will be web browsing, working with MS Office and some programming. I initially got the Y410p because I wanted to game as well, but it seems I wouldn't be doing it much in reality and could just use an XBOX or something for that. Although, I do love the performance, from a technical standpoint, of the Y410p as it is nicely spec. Because I've had problems in the past, I have been working with someone in customer service who told me I can order anything I want with any discounts that I can haggle from sales, and that after that I would be given an additional 10% off on top of it after it shipped, or I could order from the outlet site and get a flat 35% off. As you can see I am in quite a decision pickle....

So my choices are keep the y410p, bought new for $721.18 with the discounts, it has i7 4700mq, 8GB RAM, tTB 5400 RPM + 24GB NGFF, Nvidia GT750M
Buy a T431s, I got a price of $755.10 for the base with the i5 3337U, 4GB RAM, 500GB 7200 RPM, HD4000 integrated graphics, probably upgrade to SSD after I bought it, like a Samsung 840 Pro.
Wait for T440s, or find a T430s or something like that off of the outlet and use a 35% in addition to outlet price, I have found most of these to be in the i7 3520M, with 4 - 8 GB RAM, 500 GB HDD to come out around $500-$750 refurbished.

 

I think the problem is that Lenovo doesn't have a "High-End Consumer" line. If you look at Dell, they have Inspiron as a budget friendly line, Latitude as a business line and XPS as a premium consumer line. HP has Pavillion, Probook and Envy. Lenovo has nothing to fill that third tier currently, and it seems like they are trying to expand the Thinkpad line to cover both business and high-end consumer lines. Since the lifespan of a laptop is becoming more about the build quality and reliability than the horsepower, consumers have seemed to shift more towards higher end machines. Since the Ideapad line doesn't have the best reputation, I understand why they're doing it with the Thinkpad line instead. Perhaps they should have followed Dell and gone with a third line that offered Thinkpad build quality with Ideapad consumer-friendly features.

 

To me, a thinkpad is genuinely the best laptop. Not because of its build quality, or performance or anything like that, but because it is the one laptop I can effectively use without a mouse on hand. Sure, a touchpad is okay when browsing the internet, but when I am coding, in CAD or running any number of other applications I need discrete buttons, usable scroll, and I especially need a middle mouse button.

I've used thinkpads for so long that all its quirks are ingrained and moving to another laptop is a painful exercise in frustration.

I have suffered through laptops that integrated buttons into the touchpad, and it was without exception absolutely horrible. I hope that lenovos new trackpad can live up to its predecessor. I am also terrified that it wont, because then I will be forced to suffer through whatever garbage they replace it with.

 

There is a lenovo website for drivers in which I can only see the drivers for HD 5000 for t440s.

Drivers and software - ThinkPad T440s

http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles/gid820ww.txt

So the only possibilities for processors are:
4650U (1.7 - 3.3 GHz*) The newest processor in macbook air, which is somewhere between i5-3210M and i5-3360.
4550U (1.5 - 3.0 GHz)
4350U (1.4 - 2.9 GHz)
4250U (1.3 - 2.6 GHz)

So if the cooling is ok, with turboboost it will be a really fast machine.

*For one active core

 

T440s Service Videos ThinkPad T440s Service Training RTPW1150 v.067a





Descrete AMD or NVIDIA GPU?

 

Me too, and I could'nt agree more with you. Loking at my R51 and new models I was thinking xxx they did to Thinkpad. I like changes, when they are for the good, but removing essential indicators on business machines are not one of them,