T440s up on Lenovo website (IPS Screen, 1080p)

I'm still on the fence, honestly. The new 13" rMBP looks insane. The only things that the T440s has in it's favor: upgradable SSD, FHD touchscreen, keyboard, and (possibly) price.

The Mac has a slimmer profile, more robust processing power, more RAM (up to 16GB, but you have to get that when you buy it), 33% better battery life while keeping it's thin profile, better screen, and a far superior iGPU. IBMThink will debate the last part and he has some good resources, but I dunno which one to believe.

I'm waiting to see how much the T440s will go for with a custom BTO with: i7 + FHD touch, & the lowest HDD and RAM, so I can upgrade those myself. If those come out to be $1500 or less, (after I upgrade the SSD and RAM) then I'll go Thinkpad. If not then I'll have to side with the rMBP.

 

How long has it been since the L440 got released, it's still not discounted. It might be a while before the T440s comes down to a sane price.

 

The Mac book air has a normal resolution TN screen. It's also relatively low powered.

The 2012 rMBP's iGPU wasn't powerful enough to be lag free in a browser. The 5100 in the new version should be good enough. The ssd should be about 3-4 times faster too. Those are the main improvements that I see, not the weight or battery life.

 

The rMBP got almost a 30% increase in battery life, that's pretty substantial. If it was ULV (like the T440s), it would've destroyed the T440s in battery life. Let's not forget that in a larger package, Lenovo wasn't fit as high an energy density battery. And even with ULV they aren't able to match the rMBP in battery life.

 

Yes, Apple manages to put in bigger batteries, but not necessarily because they use batteries with a "denser battery energy" (or maybe they do, but not only). They manage to do it by:
- Offering no HDDs, which saves very much space for the battery
- Soldering the RAM
- Glueing in the battery

Basically, by makeing the hardware non-replaceable, they are saving room for the battery, as well as no offering HDDs.

The new 13" MBP is using ULV CPUs. Apple is using the 28 W U-CPUs with Iris 5100.

 

Hmmmm.... all of the Tx40 machines have been pulled from the main top part of the UK T series page. Only Tx30 machines remain.

ThinkPad T Series: Premium Laptops | Lenovo (UK)

It must be soon!

S

 

Ah, but many of the positives of the rMBP don’t apply to the T440s.

I never said Apple’s battery replacement procedure was just as bad as Lenovo’s — it’s worse! My opinion is that Lenovo’s dual battery is a regression in terms of repairability/durability with very little benefit for my use case.

Apple’s battery isn’t a deal breaker for me because I expect a thousand+ charge cycles.

The MBA hasn’t completely dropped out of my consideration, but most “deals” (refurbs, scratch & dent) are for the base model, which only has 4GB of RAM. A laptop needs to have 8GB nowadays to remain viable throughout its life, IMO. Add in a glossy TN panel and OSX as negatives.

I can’t get over the cMBP 13's low-resolution, super glossy display and bad perceived !/$. If you are referring to the last-generation rMBP 13, that is the model I have my eye on.

My impression is that the lag was largely a software problem. It’s iGPU is only borderline acceptable, but Mavericks and the new Safari seem to have made it a non-issue. I’m waiting for reviews comparing the new generation with the old before I make my final decision.

 

As a corollary to why I'm considering the rMBP, here's what I would prefer in the new T440s. If Lenovo covered these bases, I'd be knocking on their door asking them to take my money.

Take the current T440s base model and modify:
* High Quality 1600x900 IPS screen
* i5 processor standard ( ULV is fine)
* Two DIMM slots ( w/ single 4GB module)
* Single ~50Wh removable, rear-mounted flush battery
* 128GB M.2 ( or mSATA) SSD
* Empty HDD bay
* Windows 7 Pro
* X1 Carbon Trackpad/Trackpoint
* Re-flipped Thinkpad logo
* Ditch the silver Lenovo logo
* $1000 starting price, discounted to ~$850

 

Yes, I'm not a huge fan of the dual battery system either. A replaceable single battery seems easier to manage.

I agree with many of your points there, TheEquatorialSky. Why do you prefer the X1 Carbon trackpad/trackpoint? Is it smoother than the T440s? I've never used it so don't know but it seems somewhat comparable to Apple's trackpad, which I've used and like. I also agree with the option of a high quality 1600x900 screen, IPS or not. I would rather have a high quality screen with great color quality that is a TN than a average quality IPS screen.

 

Someone managed to get 15+ hours in linux with the bigger battery. Blog Lazarski.me | Lenovo Thinkpad t440s 6+3 Cell Battery life - Blog Lazarski.me

 

So basically a T430s with better screen

That sorta sums up what I was hoping for. But alas, Lenovo's model changes have moved all its offerings out of my "ideal" window. Although I also blame Intel and its silly "ultrabook" drive that's encouraging manufacturers to make machines that no-one wants (after all, ultrabooks are doing nothing to increase PC sales)

 

T440s with X220.

X220- one of the finest Thinkpad's made.

Google Translate

 

Holy crap! I'm so sold. So so sold.

 

come on guys powertop shows only predicted time ..


but in did you can achieve 15hrs
13-Inch 2013 MacBook Air Gets Up to 15 Hours of Battery Life With Mavericks - Mac Rumors

 

apple once again kicked lenovo witk new mbp, I'm really confused what I should do now, the only arguments that speak for t440s

- docking port
- keyboard
- linux support

ok ok.. if need more performance I should buy big fat t440p ... and I had such hopes for the new T series .... :/

 

What about:
- Maintainability
- No need for stupid dongles since Lenovo does provide Ethernet and VGA
- Matte screen
- More robust materials
- TrackPoint

 

- docking port
- keyboard
- linux support

- matte screen
- track point
- ethernet


I cannot agree with all the points

- More robust materials - to be honest in next 3 years you will start thinking about refresh of your system
- Maintainability - it's only matter if you could you afford ssd and extended memory from the beginning, in the next 3 years 32GB of RAM or even more will be standard and you will be limited by you mainboard
- Dongles - projectors has hdmi ports

Truly saying what is missing in T440
Quad Core option
up to 16GB ram
Intel Iris

it could even 2-3 mm thicker, but with this specs it will be definitely top seller.


I really love T design, trackpoint and matte screen but that does not reward the lack of performance :/

 

I don´t think the CPU performance will be much of an issue for the T440s, if you get the i7-4600U, which is really fast - the difference in the CPU performance between the i7-4600U and the i7-4558U shouldn´t be that big, both are ULVs, the biggest difference is the faster iGPU.

The only field where the T440s may lack performance is the GPU. Everywhere else, it is adequate I think.

Even the Iris 5100 used in the MBP 13 is not that more powerful - the Iris 5100 is 15 - 20 % more powerful than the HD 4400 and the HD 5000. The only Intel iGPU thats really powerful is the Iris Pro 5200.

Maybe, but maybe more because of the performance than because of the chassis. ThinkPads can last really long, I will see how the T440s will do in this kategory. At least it won´t get dents like the MBP with its Aluminium body, I think Carbon is more robust.

Well, thats maybe true (although if 16 GB DDR3 memory modules would come out the T440s could take at least 16 GB, if not more), but thats not my point. After 3 years, try to change the MBPs battery. Or if the WLAN-chip is defect, try to change it. On the ThinkPad and on the T440s, you just take of the Base-cover and change the WLAN module.

Or, what if a key is broken? YOu can´t change the keyboard, so you will have to pay someone in the Apple store to do it for you. etc. ThinkPads can be repaired by yourself. Macbooks - not really.

 

Other factors include price, and OS. In a couple of months, the T440s will be <$1000 for the base model, while the MBP will still be at least several hundred higher, not even factoring the upgrades (most importantly SSD and RAM). Moreovery, I cannot bring myself to use OSX. If Macs could work smoothly with just Windows, then I would definitely consider them; otherwise, it's too much of a drawback.

 

They work just fine with Windows.
Macs are more expensive, but they also have a much higher resale value when you want to get rid of them.

 

I am guessing you already have a previous generation macbook?

IBMThink I was hoping you could answer a question I had in another thread for the x240. Is the hd IPS screen replaceable with the fhd screen for when it comes out? Or are the connectors different or different cable needed? YOu may not be able to answer but it seems your very familiar with the thinkpad series!

 

I agree they're all OK for office tasks, but the 28 W i7 parts offer ~20 % better CPU and over 30 % better GPU performance when you need it. That's like the improvement you get going from one Intel generation to the next.

That's why you get AppleCare

 

Nope, T410s. I never thought I would consider buying a Mac until the T440s turned out to be a disappointment. I still haven't made up my mind, which is why I'm waiting for more reviews, prices, and discussion in this thread.

 

To be honest, I'd be fine with just the Trackpoint and a set of buttons. I rarely use the Trackpad, so the X1 Carbon's simple hinged design gets out of the way and doesn't look like it'll break. I think it also appeals to Trackpad users with its large surface area and Apple-like design.

Those are definitely the high-points of the Thinkpad line. WiFi still has mild reliability, speed and security issues so an ethernet port is useful, but I’m ambivalent about the VGA connector. It really only exists for business projectors, and every time I’ve had to give a presentation a laptop was already connected or available. Definitely a YMMV thing.

Yeah, that’s definitely another factor drawing me to the dark side. The true cost is the depreciation of the computer, not the sale price. This can be minimized by buying Apple refurbished and selling before a major chassis redesign or one of OSX’s forced obsolescence cycles. Plus, they seem easy to unload.

If inflation ever destroys paper money, I’m stocking up on easily tradable goods — gold, cigarettes, Apple computers…

 

more positive for T440s
better, spill-resistant keyboard
better cooling system (notebookcheck rating of 91% while the 2012 rmbp got a 79% rating). Very important for me

Review Lenovo ThinkPad T440s 20AQ-S00500 Notebook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews
Review Apple MacBook Pro 13 Retina 2.5 GHz Late 2012 - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

 

Why are we comparing last year's Mac with this year's ThinkPad, though? Shouldn't we wait for the reviews of the refreshed MBPr?

 

when will the t440s be on lenovo's site again? I've checked everyday for some time. I may just get a kirabook if the wait is too long.

 

I believe they are coming towards the end of this month, probably next week.

 

Yes, let's wait for the review of the 2013 MBPr.

 

Who else actually have the T440s to comment on all the stuff that we have been discussing for 219 pages. Seems like only me and ibmthink right? I recall some other people have ordered it but they have not posted for a long time.

 

It's as though you two lucky T440s owners are competing for the most unoriginal username on the forums

I think there have been a couple others who made one or two posts after getting theirs but no one who posts frequently.

 

I'm still waiting for mine. Hopefully it will arrive by the end of the week or on Monday at the latest, since we have holidays for the rest of the next week which would mean one more week of waiting >_<

 

iofthestorm, haha, I do agree I have a really silly username...oh wells - can't change it now.

jbordon, nice, once you get it, play around and see what you think. At the moment, I like it but I don't like the no dedicated buttons on the touchpoint. I need to adapt my fingers to use the whole clickpad as a button - not a biggie - but a new change. The clickpad takes a bit of time to adjust as well...seems more effort for me at the moment. However, I love how fast Win8 is though compare to Win7 on startup and 16 hours battery life on the bigger battery

 

For me, at this moment, it's boiling down to either the T440s or the new Dell XPS 15. I would really appreciate your help in setting the dealbreaker here. I'm in Germany, and here's what I would get:

T440s
Intel® Core™ i7-4600U 2.10GHz
8 GB PC3-12800 1600MHz DDR3
240 GB SSD
35.6 cm (14") FHD IPS (1920 x 1080)
1.58 kg
€ 1529,00 @ ok1.de

XPS 15
Intel® Core™ i7-4702HQ Processor
16 GB9 Dual-Channel DDR3L, 1600 MHz
1-TB-SATA + 32-GB-mSATA
2 GB nVidia GeForce GT 750M
15.6 inch LED Backlit Touch Display with Truelife and QHD+ resolution (3200 x 1800)
2.01 kg
€ 1699 @ dell.de

The advantages of one or the other are obvious in the numbers. I would be using the laptop for MATLAB, development with Visual Studio / Eclipse, audio edition and DJ software. I currently own an Ideapad Y550 and wanted to try out a smaller, lighter form factor; both of these laptops are lighter, but only the Thinkpad is really smaller. Truth be told, I'd rather be seen with a Thinkpad, but I don't want to base my decision on that

So: am I missing anything here? What are your experiences with build quality and other factors not mentioned here?

Have a great day!

 

If the dimensions of the 15 inch is not that important to you, I would definitely take the XPS 15. It will be much faster, will handle multimedia things much faster (audio, DJ software). With such specs it won't get old soon too.

If you change your mind about the weight, this is one more option because of the price and the specs. I'd suggest looking at Asus n550jv, which has an even faster processor 4700HQ, the same 750GT and not QHD+, but still a very very good FHD panel with 1410:1 contrast and 300nits of brightness. Review Asus N550JV-CN201H Notebook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

The great thing is that you can get it for 1000 Eu with 3 year international warranty.

 

Thanks for your input, kordis! That Asus machine looks sweet, but indeed, too heavy for my likes right now.

Besides, I've always had consumer-grade laptops up to now and wanted to try out a higher quality level. I know Thinkpads are enterprise class; would I be right in assuming that the XPS line is also?

 

I'd say Dell advertises XPS as more consumer than enterprise notebook. I think of them as high consumer class, more like a macbook. The real Dell enterprise class comparable to Thinkpads are Latitude, Precision.

 

Focus on the SPECIFIC model you're looking at. Being business-oriented (which is a more appropriate expression than business-"grade") doesn't mean it must be superior.

 

dont get the dell. trust me on that.

the fans will likely spin all day and you'll hate listening to it. total opposite to the thinkpad which will remain silent except for under the heaviest load.

 

I wouldn't make such conclusions about all Dells. As Mr. Koala said, just focus on particular models. You can always check the reviews and compare the noise notebooks make at Notebook / Laptop Reviews and News - NotebookCheck.net

 

Gotcha. Gotta wait for the review!

 

I never tried a XPS but tried latitude laptops - good solid laptops

 

It depends. If I'm looking for a thin and light notebook with its specs being of secondary importance, then the T440s would be a better choice. If I need something faster with probably a better screen, then the XPS 15 would look better.

Also, don't worry about what you want to be seen carrying.

 

Indeed. Business-oriented laptops like the T-series are never going to have the best bleeding-edge components because business users generally care more about flexibility and reliability than the latest whizz-bang specs.

 

I would also check how cool the XPS runs the cpu-intensive applications if that are your intended use. Sometimes the consumer grade notebooks (even some business grade ones) have good specs but lousy cooling that defeats the purpose of a faster CPU.

 

pretty much why i say stay away from dell. their specs may be attractive but you'll be disappointed by thermal design.

 

I've never owned a XPS from any era, but several fairly recent Precisions that went through this household had zero issues when it came to cooling.

 

Funny you should say that.... I was just looking at all the new info about he upcoming M3800 and wondering how on earth a quad-core machine with K1100 GPU, spinning drive and carbon-reinforced plastic bottom can exist without bigger cooling vents. Even though it has "dual-fan cooling" it doesn't look like much air can move through it, suggesting it'll be noisy.

 

Sorry if I missed this in the past 220 pages somewhere, but is there the maximum RAM for a T440s listed somewhere? I'd like to max it out to run some support VMs on the go, and doing it after the fact is typically lighter on the wallet. Can't find a max ram amount though.

I'll likely be order a T440s with the FHD screen for maximum vSphere Client space. If I could somehow get the Yoga 2's resolution on a T440s I'd be in heaven

 

Max RAM for the T440 and T440s is 12GB (4GB soldered and 1 slot free). The T440p gets up to 16GB (2 accessible slots).