Y50 Thread

Same power draw, doesnt matter really.

 

Did some testing with Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon on the Y50 UHD. I used Fraps overlay to keep track of FPS. While running at UHD on Low settings get about 30 FPS. Playable but not very smooth. When I switch to FHD and upped the settings to Medium with vysnc off, I get a consistent 60-70 FPS. Turning vsync on obviously caps the FPS at 48. I noticed very little difference in smoothness/quality with vysnc on/off. It's worth noting that I'm running on a fresh install of Windows 8.1 with the latest Nvidia drivers. Everything is new so there's probably stuff that isn't configured optimally.

 

Which is what certain people were forgetting. Vsync.

I get 100 FPS while playing D3 on my Clevo. Pretty sure my screen isn't 120hz.

I just keep Vsync off.

Still doesn't fix the issue that the UHD panel is glossy. I need matte.

 

Can more folks give some input on Vsync? In my little bit of research online - unless you are getting screen tearing - Vsync should be off for FPS and fighting games ... If that's the case, and with VSync off you can exceed the 48FPS, basically to the maximum that the graphics card can handle - doesn't this mean the 48Hz/48 FPS argument is a bit moot? The only downside I have found for Vsync being off is that the graphics cards go at full performance the entire time (ie heat issues at long lengths of time, etc). However, with all of the users here posting that the higher the FPS the better, even if it's 120, I'm confused as to why no one mentioned VSync on/off and with it being off, you get the maximum FPS possible. Thanks!

 

The argument always implied vsync was on. Which is why I was intrigued at the big fuss being made about the whole 48 fps thing.

With v sync off, it doesn't matter what your refresh rate is.

This doesn't excuse the whole debacle, and Intel/Lenovo need to get their act together. But unless you must run your games with vsync on, it is indeed a moot point (in my opinion).

 

I really dont like v sync off when playing dota 2, the screen tearing is distracting while playing fast paced clashes..

 

Have you tried it on a Lenovo 4K to see if the screen tearing is there? Or if screen tearing is in a game without vsync, does that mean all machines without vsync on are going to experience the same tearing?

 

Nope, I've only experienced it in my current laptop screen and my desktop lcd screen, its noticable in FHD, in my experience atleast with Dota 2.

 

My opinion on VRAM:
VRAM is not user upgradable. Doubling the VRAM will allow you to set the texture quality very high in games even once we reach the point when the geometry and CPU become a bottleneck.

VSync and 48Hz:
Why would you draw frames faster than your display is capable of displaying? If you draw frames faster than the screen refreshes, you WILL get tearing. Tearing can be noticed in pretty much every type of game: action, FPS, RTS (scrolling), etc. It sucks that the display has a refresh rate of 48Hz, even on 1080p resolution, but I would much rather have a consistent framerate and a nice display than an extra 12 FPS. If the screen were locked at 30Hz, I would be much more averse to the screen.

 

From the gaming forums I went on this morning - it seems many people run with VSync off on FPS and fighting games - UNLESS they see tearing .. And they're talking about 100+FPS on 60Hz displays - so if there is no tearing there, it seems to me like it's just something you have to test and see. I'd say an extra 12FPS sure is negligible - but we're probably talking between the difference of 48 FPS and 100 FPS - a much greater number than +12.

 

Wait can someone explain to me the fresh install of Windows 8 thing? Is it required/recommended to do when you get the laptop and are the drivers necessary? Dumb questions but I'm pretty confused, thought the laptop would come with all that installed already..

 

He was referring to the fact that if your screen's refresh rate is capped at 60hz, the screen refreshes (or updates its images) 60 times per second. So while your GPU might be pushing out 100 FPS, your monitor is only updating 60 times per second. So really, you'll never get more than 60 FPS, unless you have a 120hz monitor.

Vsync caps your FPS at your screen refresh rate. When people say they get 100 FPS, they're really saying their GPU is pumping out 100 FPS, but their screen is only showing 60 FPS.

It's true that there really isn't any benefit to having your GPU pump out more FPS than your monitor is capable of displaying.

The question then becomes: is the screen physically only capable of 48hz, or is that a software/driver limitation? Laptop/desktop displays are usually 60hz. If the screen is actually capable of 60hz, then you can potentially get 60FPS out of it.

 

Check to see if you can make the display run at 60hz in kubuntu. Perhaps the GPU drivers for Linux may not be coded the same way as the windows driver.

 

nvidia gives you an explanation already a long time ago so this is not just some fussing over nothing situation

"When TVs were first developed they relied on CRTs which work by scanning a beam of electrons across the surface of a phosphorus tube. This beam causes a pixel on the tube to glow, and when enough pixels are activated quickly enough the CRT can give the impression of full motion video. Believe it or not, these early TVs had 60Hz refresh rates primarily because the United States power grid is based on 60Hz AC power. Matching TV refresh rates to that of the power grid made early electronics easier to build, and reduced power interference on the screen.

By the time PCs came to market in the early 1980s, CRT TV technology was well established and was the easiest and most cost effective technology for utilize for the creation of dedicated computer monitors. 60Hz and fixed refresh rates became standard, and system builders learned how to make the most of a less than perfect situation. Over the past three decades, even as display technology has evolved from CRTs to LCD and LEDs, no major company has challenged this thinking, and so syncing GPUs to monitor refresh rates remains the standard practice across the industry to this day.

Problematically, graphics cards don’t render at fixed speeds. In fact, their frame rates will vary dramatically even within a single scene of a single game, based on the instantaneous load that the GPU sees. So with a fixed refresh rate, how do you get the GPU images to the screen? The first way is to simply ignore the refresh rate of the monitor altogether, and update the image being scanned to the display in mid cycle. This we call ‘VSync Off Mode’ and it is the default way most gamers play. The downside is that when a single refresh cycle show 2 images, a very obvious “tear line” is evident at the break, commonly referred to as screen tearing. The established solution to screen tearing is to turn VSync on, to force the GPU to delay screen updates until the monitor cycles to the start of a new refresh cycle. This causes stutter whenever the GPU frame rate is below the display refresh rate. And it also increases latency, which introduces input lag, the visible delay between a button being pressed and the result occurring on-screen.

Worse still, many players suffer eyestrain when exposed to persistent VSync stuttering, and others develop headaches and migraines, which drove us to develop Adaptive VSync, an effective, critically-acclaimed solution. Despite this development, VSync’s input lag issues persist to this day, something that’s unacceptable for many enthusiasts, and an absolute no-go for eSports pro-gamers who custom-pick their GPUs, monitors, keyboards, and mice to minimize the life-and-death delay between action and reaction."

G-SYNC | Technology | GeForce

 

I've been secretly hoping that this is the case
Though I believe it is probably locked at the hardware level. We'll see if UPS manages to deliver my package today: "The street number is incorrect. This may delay delivery. We're attempting to update the address."
(Note: it is correct...)

 

Exactly! And what causes that perceived tearing are 2 things: the fact that frames are not generated evenly in time and from all those frames that GPU is able to pump out is, afaik, selected only the current one to actually output on your display. So there's variable time difference between every 2 displayed (and even GPU generated) neighboring frames. Please correct me, if I've wrote something incorrectly.

 

hey good day i might be in the market for a new machine for those who have had it a while can you give me some insight in terms of
Sound ++
heat development and dissipation +
performance ++
Battery life ++
and Screen Quality +
track pad and keyboard as well
feel free to inbox me thanks its between this and the XPS for me. i think dell screwed me over with the XPS so need to learn more about this will keep reading in the mean time.

 

You can get away with no vsync in probably 75% of games. Some games absolutely require it though The 48hz vs 60hz is still relevant, especially since many of the games that need vsync on are the ones you most want to be playing at 60fps. Vsync caps your framerate at the monitor's refresh rate to eliminate screen tearing. I think no one mentioned vsync previously because it was just assumed that everyone knew that's what was being referred to when talking about capped framerates.

For most gaming, 48fps vs 60fps will make little difference. I'm a very experienced gamer whose played a multitude of genres and I'd be hard-pressed to do a blind test of 48 vs 60. So for me and my needs, the 48hz isn't a big deal but it would definitely be nice to have it running at 60hz. When I get the chance, I'll put some time in to see if I can get this screen running at 60hz.

 

Well not many people have had it a while since it just came out but..

Sound: Quality is excellent. Loud and crisp with decent range for a laptop. Good, solid bass.
Heat: Haven't had it long enough to really comment. Play some FC3 and could feel the heat through the keyboard though.
Performance: Haven't put it through it's paces yet but everything is smooth and fast so far. Installing windows took about 10-15 minutes.
Battery Life: Don't know yet.
Screen Quality: The UHD display is excellent. Crisp, detailed images, good out-of-the-box colors. Great viewing angles as well. The FHD display is awful, I returned it immediately. Terrible viewing angles, washed out colors.
TrackPad/Keyboard: Good so far. Keyboard is fairly solid unless you are a hard typer, then you'll feel a bit of give.

 

Hi everybody,

I am new to the fourm but I have been reading since it started. I have been tracking the y50 since it came out cause I wanted it for when I go to college. I have been waiting endlessly for the y50 4k touch to come out and have been asking and asking lenovo representatives this question, and finally got a good response here is what I found.

Ashley B : Thank you for choosing Lenovo Chat.
Ashley B: Sales ID 2900717283, How may I help you today?
: Hi I was wondering when you will be releasing the lenovo y50 4k touch model? I am going to be a college student and very worried because I would love this laptop but im not sure if i can get it in time
for school
Ashley B: They have not discussed bringing in a Y50 4k touch enabled system, If this is something that they consider it will be a few months from now when that might happen
I have heard mixed answers though due to this being the third day asking representatives this same question. others said it will be released by the beginning of this month
Ashley B: No they have not sent anything out we only here of people speaking about it but no one has confirmed
where do you get your information from is there a way you can confirm this?
Ashley B: Which is why I am not going to tell you this being they have not sent us anything official
Ashley B: We receive email updates of upcoming releases I have releases up until August right now and that not being one of them

 

I have a question into Lenovo on this as well - today it was pushed through to another person at Lenovo (I was copied on it) ..

Also the topic of the 48Hz being locked was also forwarded to an engineer at Lenovo today ..

So hopefully I *may* get some answers to both of these questions soon ..

Brian

 

Also, the only time you would want to turn off VSync is if your GPU can barely render 60 FPS. If this happens, then your framerate will jump between 60 FPS and 30 FPS (when the gpu doesn't render a frame within 16 ms, it needs to wait for the next refresh). This stuttering is very distracting.

 

Wait, so I'm a bit confused here. I've always ran things with v sync on on things that would constantly surpass the monitor refresh rate of 60 due to tearing etc that would happen sometimes, but I don't understand what the benefit would be to turn it off? Like even if the fps counter shows 100 fps if your monitor can only physically display 60 fps isn't that counter just an artificial inflated number telling you what you COULD be running at if you theoretically had a monitor with higher refresh rate? So even though it says 100 fps your monitor is still only showing 60 frames per second? Or am I wrong

 

I'm a bit confused on the topic as well - in gaming forums that I was on this morning researching the issue, people swear by turning VSync off for FPS/fighting games and they say they can definitely see the difference in a higher framerate, even if it's higher than the refresh rate of the display .. People were commenting a lot on getting 100 FPS on 60Hz displays with Vsync off, and it being noticeable (as long as tearing wasn't an issue) versus being locked to 60FPS with Vsync on.

Some comments:

"Higher FPS = better. There's no point in restricting FPS as far as pure performance and accuracy is concerned. But it's better that the information gets to the computer as fast as possible. Same with FPS, even if the game at some point reduces the info to 66 units per second. You're still sending the most accurate data if you have the highest initial FPS. Of course, if you get tearing and it bothers you enough, you might as well sync FPS with the monitor. There won't be a huge difference. "

"60hz, 60 refreshes per second, that is different to frames. The screen can refresh anywhere on the screen up to 60 times per second. The reason screen tearing exists is because the screen is refreshing as fast as it can, when the frames are exceeding 60fps. 60fps is the highest you can get WITHOUT SCREEN TEARING. If you go over, you get screen tearing, which is the display refreshing itself as fast as it possibly can. So you'll get parts of the screen refreshing, not all of it at once. 60hz != 60fps. They are totally different and not linked. The only similarity is that under 60fps won't give you screen tearing."

 

FPS counter shows the rate your gpu is rendering the image not what is being displayed. regardless of what that image shows, you can't go beyond the screen refresh rate, which is why you see tearing.

what v sync does is basically delay the image update. let's say your gpu is rendering one second of a scene with 90 frames, v sync, instead of updating all 90 frames, only shows 60 frames and delays the 30 frames left to the next second, which in turn causes INPUT LAG. if your gpu is incapable of rendering 60 frames, then it simply shows however many frames it can render in one second and stops at the last frame for the rest of the second, which causes stuttering.

I posted nvidia's explanation already last page. they are pretty clear about all the differences

 

They aren't asking "what vsync does", they want to know why someone would ever want FPS to be higher than their monitors refresh rate.

 

The only reason I have ever had to turn off Vsync is if a game doesn't run properly. Dragon Age on an SLI laptop, for example, had major issues unless I either disabled SLI or vsync. There has never been any benefit to having the GPU push harder than my monitor's refresh rate, so I usually keep it on otherwise.

 

less input lag, if your gpu is rendering at 100fps while you turned on v sync to force it at 60fps, you experience input lag due to the delay in displaying the frames

 

You would turn it off if your GPU can't pump out at least 60FPS (or whatever your screen refresh rate is).

In other words:

1) If your GPU pumps out more FPS than your display can handle, you potentially get screen tearing (solution - turn on vsync)
2) If your GPU pumps out less FPS than your display can handle, you get stutter (solution - turn vysnc off)

Fun times.

 

1) If your GPU pumps out more FPS than your display can handle, you potentially get screen tearing (solution - turn on vsync) == more input lag

the whole g reason g sync and free sync are developed is to eliminate the side effects from v sync

 

Basically, what is the point of all this v-sync, g-sync, and fps talk when at the end of the day we are stuck with a 48hz screen? Seems like quite the bottleneck to an otherwise decently priced system.

 

Unless Brian brings us good news from his lenovo contact, looks that way . So close to being THE laptop to buy for its category, but the screen is IMO one of the most important aspects on a laptop because that's what you are looking at, and they messed up on that

 

We're close to getting some reviews on screen replacements in my other thread. While a somewhat drastic measure for some, it does offer a solution.

 

So I am on the edge of getting the UHD 4K High End Model, I am still waiting on a Full Out Review of it though. But as for the 48HZ vs 60HZ it is not bothering me as much since I am not a huge gamer. The main draw for me was the 4K screen, Up-gradable Ram and Up-gradable HDD.

But this being said the Monitor / Display Tech is extremely hard to understand. I have been working in the High End Home Theater field for a long time and it is alot more than just 60 frames / 48 frames. It has to deal with Resolution / Interlaced vs Progressive formats and of course the content.

That being said this is the Best 1 Sheet out there Tech Stuff - Monitors/Displays: Resolution/Bandwith/Refresh Rates to explain most of the aspects of how Refresh Rates work and tearing.

But I will try to find an old article that goes more in death about how less important refresh is with resolution that goes up to the human eye. But the fact that when you drop the resolution of the monitor does not allow a 60hz isnt fun since i know alot of gamers will want that feature.

But i would not be surprised if there was a BIOS update or a new display profile update.

2 Questions for the Masses / UHD Owners
Does anyone have more detailed manufacture specs of the UHD scrren?
How does the 48HZ Video 4K Video Playback look? / 4K Resolution Gaming Look? Just more overall impressions of the screen maybe 100% scaling and mutli tasking in windows.

- New Link - Beauty is Truly in the eye of the Beholder - http://www.maximumpc.com/refresh_rate_2013

 

4K video looks good. 48Hz is appropriate since the video on my phone is restricted to 24Hz 4k shooting. It looks better than FHD but not by much, since my camera sensor probably isn't the greatest. 4k gaming looks about the same as QHD gaming. There aren't any games that I know of with 4k textures and models, so the resolution is way overkill. On top of that, most games I tried run like crap at the native resolution. They are either extremely low framerates ( < 20) or are buggy (Crysis randomly plays in letterbox, ES5 has text floating in the middle of the screen). The era of games I got to play normal was Half-Life 2, which looked great but the menu text was near impossible to read without being 6 inches from the screen. In a nutshell, 4k gaming is not recommended.

 

Which ever way you look at it, if the fps are capped at 48, then you are simply paying 1500 plus for a laptop with the gaming performance of a much weaker card than the 860m, which IS one of the main draws of this package, perhaps even more important than the screen itself for a lot of people. You can get plenty of nice looking displays for well under that price with weaker GPUs that will perform just as well if not better than the restricted 860m in this case, so it really does not end up looking like a good deal as far as bang for your buck. A lot of people here were already contemplating other models from other manufacturers, the y50 seemed to have been holding a slight edge overall, but with this ridiculous fps cap, its totally lost that advantage.

 

This is a noob question but if I have a 4k screen, can I play games at 1920x1080 in full screen or will i have a smaller window?

 

You should try some of these Videos- I love to test the 4k Videos from you-tube on 4K TV's
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD33E5618740295DF

But thanks for the update, im just wondering now if I have waited this long to take the 4k leap if i should wait for the 2 Asus's to come out.

 

You can play them full screen or in a window. Your choice but i bet you would want to play them full screen.

 

I bought the i5 version of this laptop a couple weeks ago from Newegg, and while I love the value that this laptop offers, it's had a couple of maddening problems that have been very trying to deal with.

- World of Warcraft doesn't always use the Nvidia card. I can tell because sometimes I'll log into the game and framerates suck. Usually fiddling with a setting or restarting the computer does the trick, but obviously it's a hugely annoying problem. I tried everything, including updating drivers, changing settings to force 3D applications to use the Nvidia card, etc etc. Nothing. Today I just happened to notice that WoW wasn't even in the list of games under custom 3D settings - I'd just assumed it was there and only changed the global setting. I added all of the WoW executable files to the game list, so I'm hoping that does the trick and that the problem was that for some strange reason the Geforce drivers weren't recognizing WoW as a game installed and running on my computer. If that doesn't work I don't know what else to do.

- This is a Windows 8 issue I believe, but also while playing WoW I was getting out of memory errors from Windows. Super annoying. Supposedly the fix is to run games in fullscreen windowed mode, but that didn't do anything. I did notice that in WoW's list of refresh rates there is no 60Hz, only 59.9Hz. Since what I've read online seems to indicate that the reason for the low memory errors is using a different resolution in the game than on the desktop (even though I'm running them all in 1080p), I tried setting the desktop resolution to 59Hz and that again seems to have (temporarily, at least) fixed the problem.

- The screen is indeed horrible (the 1080 version, at least). I can definitively verify this because I have a nice Dell IPS LCD, and if you put the two side by side there's just no comparison. The Y50's screen is flat-out bad. Thankfully I use an external monitor all the time, so this really isn't a major issue for me given that I will only rarely use the laptop's screen. Obviously Lenovo figured people would care more about having a 1080p screen than having a higher-quality, lower-res one, so that was an area they saved some money I'm guessing.

- The hard drive is extremely slow. I had a Samsung 840 Pro in my last laptop (decided to move away from SSDs for now because I just fill them up too quickly), and the difference in disk performance is shocking. Even compared to a 7200RPM hard drive, this thing's drive is *bad*. If I wasn't so lazy about having to reinstall everything, I'd definitely replace it with a faster hard drive.

- Currently having issues with the wireless card apparently being really slow. When I was at home on vacation (when I bought the laptop) network speeds were fine, but I'm back home now on a different kind of router and wireless performance is just terrible. I'm going to connect the computer via ethernet tomorrow and see what happens, but I have other wireless devices which are all getting usual speeds, meaning the problem isn't with my connection.

- No option to turn off Optimus in the BIOS is a bit disappointing.

- Another display problem that cropped up is every once in a while my external LCD tells me on boot up that the resolution I've set in Windows isn't compatible with the display. This may be a refresh issue at 60Hz for some reason, so I'm going to see if setting the desktop refresh rate at 59Hz instead will fix the problem.

I think I may be forgetting one or two other minor things, but I can't remember them. Overall this laptop is terrific value for the money when you look at the specs on paper. However, in reality my experience with it so far has been less than pleasant. Having to deal with numerous extremely annoying problems when it comes to gaming - and gaming is what I bought this computer for - have put me on the verge of wanting to sell/return it. If I manage to fix the Optimus and low memory error issues then the laptop should be basically usable, but until then my gaming experience with it has been far poorer than my old Sager NP8130 with a GTX 560M and Windows 7.

 

So I finally got my UHD Y50, just tried powering on for the first time aaaaaand no display. Power button and keyboard lights up, but nothing on the screen. Same thing after multiple tries - awesome.

 

If you're comfortable, open it up and make sure it's connected. It could have popped off during shipment. Also try an external screen to rule out bad gpu

 

7200rpm drive has little improvements over a 5400rpm drive, not to mention you still have the 8gb ssd cache. you just have to delete all the bloatwares or do a fresh install of windows

 

Worst nightmare. Good luck man. Who did you buy from? Let us know how fast an exchange or return is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Hi,

What ever happened to the version with the R9 M270+3840x2160+4702HQ for $999 mentioned in the first post? Doesn't exist?

 

I followed all these steps, and uninstalled the previous driver before starting. However, I get a "installation failed".

 

That was speculated specs from ces. Never made it to production. But all the specs are newer / better now and the touch screen for the UHD model is not even official yet.

But a 999 4k laptop is a pipe dream.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

you didn't have to unintall the previous driver...

right now you don't need this, just go with 340.43, lenovo's 860m is registered in the new beta driver

 

I'm considering the UHD version of this, any recommendations where?

Probably been covered, but will we notice a gaming performance decrease using the 4k screen? Also, any reduction in battery life with the UHD?

Thanks

 

I posted the battery rundown of the 4k version a dozen or so pages back. I don't know if anyone did a similar test with the FHD version. Would be nice if someone could repeat it for comparison sake