Y50 Thread

Actually, they go up until the 4910qm, I believe. But yes, they have done it. They also made a great many sacrifices on the other end, with a loud fan, crappy build quality, subpar keyboard and trackpad, and abysmal battery life.

 

It's so frustrating that the perfect laptop isn't still on this world: great build quality, great materials, great design, great battery life (> 5/6 hours), gtx860M maxwell, 3k display, 2-2.5 kg, 2 cm thin...

Inviato dal mio SM-N9005

 

Let's hope Project Ara has success and someone want to do the same with laptops

 

Any company could make that, but that requires thought and effort, two things companies today can't do to crank out products on a release schedule. On that note, I just realized that may actually be why the Y40/50 hasn't come out yet, maybe they are actually spending time and effort... Who knows?...

 

is rMBP15 with 850/860M and Windows on it something similar to what I described before? what do you think guys (not considering price)?

Inviato dal mio SM-N9005

 

ROFL you just literally spelled out the specs of the MSI GS60 and 2014 Razer Blade 14 and hopefully the Lenovo Y50 when it lands. :laugh:

 

I dont think so: battery life doesn't meet the requirements I stated...

edit: also the gpus...They are kepler based, not Maxwell (talking about msi and razer)

 

1. uh since y50 uses maxwell 860m instead of mxm version, the back vents should be enough
2. we don't know if it will have dual fans or not, if it does, then the problem doesn't apply
3. like above

MSI's build quality is good, but it's as great as the way you describe it though. There's not much we can say about the y50 considering how little we know about it, so any verdicts are just too premature and too hypothetical

btw, GS60 has an mSATA and a HDD, so that doesn't really help anything

 

project ara may not be as awesome as it sounds since the dimensions of parts blocks are set, so the upgradability is...

 

TDP by definition doesn't mean much for operating temperatures (what about leakage and thermal density?) and is more useful as a gauge of the card's maximum power draw under 100% load. Plus it's a moot point if the entire cooling system has been redesigned. I could very well see the Maxwell 860M running hot or overheating in the Y50 if the cooling and airflow aren't up to snuff. I sure hope it at least has separate fans and heatsink/heatpipe assemblies dedicated to the CPU and GPU.

I was just browsing HTWingNut's Clevo W230SS review and its Maxwell 860M at load runs at the same temperature or slightly higher as the 765M in the W230ST (which has the same chassis and internals) despite the Kepler card's considerably higher TDP.

*shrug*

Give up the thinness if you want battery life. And what's wrong with Kepler 860M if it runs cool and performs the same?

 

So you agree with me that doesn't exist what i described.

it doesn't perform the same and it's not cooler. sorry.

 

Oh btw, when I checked on the review between maxwell and kepler 860M on notebookcheck, surprisingly, maxwell model has about the same power consumption as the kepler model under full load, which is really weird. but again, the laptop they used to test the maxwell card has 2 hard drives, so that may account towards the power usage

 

Never said it's cooler, but it doesn't overheat either and it performs around the same.

Review Nvidia GeForce GTX 860M Maxwell vs. Kepler - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

 

Also surface area. If Maxwell has a smaller surface area it will be harder to cool. Shrug.

The p34g v2 seems to be faring well from some first hand reports, we shall see.

 

Ok so instead of replying to everyone, I'll try to sum up what we think about the Y50. Correct me if I'm wrong.

--BATTERY LIFE--
So people want good battery life. The Y510p got anywhere from 1-4 hours of battery life, based on usage. Since it is a single graphics card, it will get more battery life. Maybe up to 5 hours. However, although the processor is Haswell, if it is the 4700HQ it won't get quite as good battery life as the 4700MQ. So this brings us to a max of 4:30. Thoughts?

--COOLING--
Other companies use a dual-fan system where air passes through both the CPU and dGPU and exhausts through rear AND side exhaust vents. From the looks of it, the Y50 only has rear exhaust. This is one point of contention in which, in my mind, the Y50 will overheat more than other leading gaming laptops as well as the Y510p.
Thermal paste- companies use cheap stuff on their products. You want better cooling, this is something that you will have to do yourself.

--DESIGN--
Spec sheets say that the Y50 will have a disc drive. Clearly from pictures there is no disc drive. This could mean a possibility of an external drive included.
USB- all ports will be USB 3.0
HDMI- one port. No other video ports included. Get a splitter- I put a link to a cheap one a few pages back.

--SOUND--
Same JBL speakers. Added subwoofer on the bottom. I personally think that this will also lead to overheating because it forced Lenovo to make a smaller intake vent on the bottom. Whether this will affect cooling much or not, I don't know.

--SIZE--
15.6" screen or 14" screen. 23.8 mm thin for those of you in the metric system. .93" for the rest of us.

--GRAPHICS CARD--
Y510p had SLI GT 755M's. Y50 will have a Maxwell-based (supposed) GTX 860M. I think that this is a downgrade, but this is debatable.

--SCREEN--
Y50 is touchscreen. 4K available. 1080p standard (supposed).
Y40 is also touchscreen. 1080p.
Both models are 10-point touch (if it matters)

--OTHER THOUGHTS--
People don't get where I am coming from on the build quality issue. I think that Lenovo has fantastic exterior build quality. Interior is another story. Parts are kinda hard to get to. As a said before, typically the thinner the laptop the harder it is to get to stuff. This would mean that even though the Y510p was hard to modify on the inside, the Y50 will be harder. IMO, it will be on the same self-repairable level as Ultrabooks.

Anything you think is wrong, just correct me about it. I think that we can agree on most of these though.

 

Personal experience.

 

Well thermal density is related to surface area.

 

Why does 4700HQ have lower battery life than 4700MQ? I thought the only difference was soldered vs. socketed.

860M is a sidegrade not a downgrade. 750M/755M SLI and 650M SLI OC best-case scenario are a little faster but 860M has more consistent performance besides the other single-GPU benefits.

I agree about Y50/Y40 internals being even harder to access. The current design is already tough enough. CPU & GPU facing keyboard equals big no-no. That's why it's so much easier to get to the heatsinks in Alienware/Clevo/MSI.

 

The GTX 860M produces less/similar heat than A SINGLE GT750M/755m with the same raw performance as 2x750M/755m!!!!

Please notice the LESS HEAT THAN A SINGLE part that you so childlishly ignored last time.


The explanation to that is the lower TDP of the gtx860m(45Watts) vs gt750m(50Watts) coupled with a larger die size ,148 square mm for the gtx860m vs 118 square mm for the gt750m(larger die size means a larger area for heat transfer to the heatsink)

SLI 750M requires a WHOPPING 100W at max load...that's 222% of the gtx860m ...MORE THAN TWICE.


Why would only 3 inches of the rear vent be used when it has 2x cooling fans spread out along the lenght of that vent.

You talk about fixing the y510p by reapplyng the thermal paste wich is just bull. The card that is overheating in the y510p is thr ultrabay card because of its poor design...the only way to fix it is by gimping it (underclocking/volting) This comes from first hand experience with this laptop...my brother owns it and the only reason that I don't own it also is because of the above mentioned issue.


I compared it with the n550 because it has about the same thickness (asus n550-2.7cm vs y50 2.4 cm) and has a card with a similar heat output (gt750m with 50w tdp vs gtx860m with 45w tdp)

I am not saying that the n550 is an ultrabook...only that it has a SIMILAR THICKNESS with the y50 with SIMILAR hardware.

I strongly suggest you read what i wrote carefully...and if you're going to contradict me don't do it just from "personal experience".


P.S. I have personally noticed the microstuttering on the y510p...and it had NOTHING to do with the drivers because they where up to date. Even users with SLI 780 are reporting it so it has nothing to do with the power of the card either....it's just a problem of SLI configurations in general.

I agree some people are affected by this more than others. It's just a matter of personal perception. If you can't see it it doesn't mean someone else won't.

 

Holy crap guys the mods were in here like 3 days ago take a breather no one wins internet arguements kurwaaaaaaaa

 

this was going to be in all caps btw just imagine it like that

 

As i said in my previous post the gtx860m has a bigger surface(die size) than the gt750m because it's still on 28Nm.

Gtx860m= 148 mm squared

Gt750m =118mm squared

The surface area will only become an issue when they roll out 20Nm

 

Were you one of the blessed who was able to check out this laptop at CES?

 

@Jinx @H01D3N Please, I mean no offense, but just take a bit privately to discuss your fights with the laptop, all you are currently doing is pissing off readers and confusing everybody, including potentially yourselves. Please, do us a favor, and settle this elsewhere before the real mods come in.

 

What I'm trying to do is bring actual facts and numbers to this thread.
I have nothing personal with the guy ...just with the false info he is providing.

I thought this was the purpose of this thread....for people to discuss about this laptop and bring pertinent information to the table.

Ofcourse this kind of discussions will arise in this kind of thread... that's the purpose of a forum/debate.

That being said, I will not contradict him anymore. If he still keeps his opinions despite all the explanations i provided then I clearly can't do anything about it.

I believe I made it quite clear that there is absolutely no reason for the gtx860m to overheat unless they completely botch the cooling system.

 

LOL you must be new here. This is Jinx you're talking about, probably the most insulting and combative poster on this board who hasn't been banned yet. This is probably the fourth or fifth time he's picked a fight with someone in this thread alone. All because of a stinkin' laptop...

 

Yes I am combative..but no I haven't insulted anyone. I'm not picking a fight...just trying to weed out false info. If you where on the debate team in high school/university like I was you would see the difference and you would realise that the end result is actually beneficial , both parties walking away with more knowledge of the subject.

 

The moment you start throwing words around like: "like you so childishly ignore" then it becomes personal and argumentative. It's clear from reading that you get easily worked up about things.

 

Guys, my dad told me before that rechargeable batteries or phones or laptops should be drained first before recharging to maximize its life. But now with science and technology and stuff, has it been improved?

When Im at home, my laptop is plugged in 100% of the time and I don't even care because batteries are cheap and replaceable. And I change laptop every 10 months or so, so I don't know if it hurts the battery or not in the long run.

Now that the upcoming y-series will probably have non-replaceable batteries, is it safe to overcharge laptop batteries?

 

completely discharging your battery will just hurt it. Use lenovo energy management and setting optimize battery health.

 

With concern to overheating, it really doesn't matter what the TDP of the chip or whatever is. What matters is its application in the form factor of the laptop that it is in.

 

I don't see how anybody can say that the notebook will/won't overheat, given that we have next to no information on it. Let's just wait and see?

 

The TDP is the Thermal Design Power of the chip, or rather, the maximum amount of heat created by the chip. It is beyond relevant in this, as the possibility of overheating is created by the amount of heat the chip creates!

 

like other people said, don't completely discharge your battery. when the laptop tells you to plug in, you plug in, simple as that

 

alright guys let's get over the fight and talk about some real issues here. when I checked on the review between maxwell and kepler 860M on notebookcheck, surprisingly, maxwell model has about the same power consumption as the kepler model under full load running 3d mark, which is really weird. but again, the laptop they used to test the maxwell card has 2 hard drives, so that may account towards the power usage. anyone has any ideas about why that happens besides the extra hard drive?

 

By draining battery, I am guessing that you mean use 100% of the battery before plugging it back in?

 

Encase a GTX 760M in aluminum. Run it. It will get hot.
Encase the same GTX 760M in plastic. Run it. It won't get as hot.
The same chip will obviously produce the same amount of heat as itself. However, the same chip will conduct different amounts of heat based on how it is encased in the machine.
Long story short, sure you will be able to use the GTX 860M in the Y50. Don't expect to overclock anything though, because based on the materials of the machine and its form factor, on a heat-wise basis this machine will probably be cutting it close.

 

So this is how you justify insulting people on every other page of this thread? Getting into a Y50 discussion, er shouting match, with you is mutually destructive, not beneficial. You trying to impose your self-righteousness over others only generates friction and makes people angry. Do you seriously expect to be able to engage in a fruitful discussion with another when strong emotions are flaring up on both sides, mainly instigated by you?

Everyone has their opinions, but keep yours to yourself if can't express them in a constructive manner. Because as far as I'm concerned, all the info thus far regarding this laptop is opinion and speculation. Not everything is set in stone and your words are not gospel.

Ad hominem is not argumentation. Funny you should bring up speech and debate because in high school I was on one of the best teams in the entire US. The first rule when trying to convince someone else to adopt your beliefs is not to insult or upset that person. I'd have to question the quality of the program you were in if that basic point didn't get across to you.

 

This article I presume?
Review Nvidia GeForce GTX 860M Maxwell vs. Kepler - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

Realistically, they should have used the same spec computer to test each. They pretty much attribute the power consumption to the extra hard drive. I checked this site too for what other people said.
[NC] Review Nvidia GeForce GTX 860M Maxwell vs. Kepler

The specs of the two computers that they tested are similar. The XMG-A504 is highly configurable, so they might not have gotten the same specs as the W504 ( XMG A504 15.6" Advanced Gaming Notebook). The W504 is a mobile workstation and has higher-end standard specs.

 

Any chip encased in alluminum will run much cooler than one encased in plastic.

That's because that alluminium(a very good thermal conductor) will dissipate the heat produced by the chip very fast while a plastic casing will act as an insulator and keep the heat bottled inside.

We used the TDP of the gtx860m to compare it with the heat output of the 750m and arrived at the conclusion that 860m should produce less heat and be easier to cool due to the larger die size.

By using deductive logic we can arrive at the conclusion that since the gtx860 produces less heat than the 750m and the 750m is succesfully used in several slim laptops with great succes then the 860m will be just as appropriate for this form factor.

 

Oh I hope so....that way hp can shove an 860m into their envy lineup

 

The ability to cool a lower TDP chip is not what I am concerned about in the Y50. Going back to my original post, it is the build quality of the internals of Lenovo's machines that could potentially be detrimental to the performance of the chip. The Y510p fans don't spin at full capacity during most gaming, although my personal experience in this is limited to the SLI 755M model.
I agree with you in that the chip itself should produce less heat and *should* be easier to cool. However, I still think that it isn't all about the TDP and the chip itself that determines whether a machine will overheat or not. Hence the example about encasing a GPU.

Look at the inside of the Y510p. http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Lenovo/IdeaPad_Y510p/boden3.jpg

From looking at this picture, I notice some interesting things.
1. The internal battery will not take up any extra space in the laptop. This is because the SLI port's space can be utilized in the Y50.
2. Lots of plastic surrounding parts.
3. The GPU is really encased. Not much room in there.

Then I looked at a picture of a Razer Blade. This is probably the closest form factor to the Y50 that we actually know stats about, would you say? http://i.imgur.com/NsZzX0C.jpg

Thoughts
1. Lots of metal. Less plastic.
2. SSD. Runs cooler.
3. Dual fan, open air design.
4. Lots of open room.

About (3). Will the Y50 have dual fans? This is crucial.
About (4). Although there is open room, there is a sheet of aluminum 1 cm away from the motherboard. Might not be great for heat.

Overall, looking at the internals for the Razer Blade or the MSI GS60 (couldn't find a picture of this one) is the closest we can get to understanding the internals of the Y50.

 

It would be awesome if HP used GTX GPU's in their Envy laptops. Right now they only use the DDR3, not GDDR5, versions of GT chips, right?

 

Well they kind of did. They used the same i7 4700MQ processor and considering when they say full load under they meant running 3d mark, other components shouldn't matter much besides gpu and cpu, which is still weird

 

Yeah that is weird. I don't really know any other variables that could affect the power consumption. It probably was just the second hard drive after all, since nvidia markets the Maxwell series as having 1.25-1.5x battery life as the last generation

 

The extra fan, CPU/GPU temperatures (higher temperatures will cause ICs to consume more power) are two more variables. Ideally, they would have used the same notebook and changed only the GPU, but I don't think that is possible given the notebooks that are available right now.

 

so we gotta take the result given on the maxwell vs kepler comparison with a grain of salt right? I think there shouldn't be any questions about maxwell's efficiency

 

Yeah. But somewhere on a driver sheet in the huge maxwell thread there was a snippet of driver info kind of correlating an envy with an 860m. One can wish....

 

It never will be possible unless you can get both on MXM as they are not interchangeable. I highly doubt we will ever see it until the top tier Maxwell chips arrive (next year?). The OEMs have plenty of interest in nvidia completing the Maxwell line as I am sure they will get tired of designing two different mainboards and the cost it incurs. They would much rather be able to run 850M+ on the same main board I would imagine.

 

Wow!! Lenovo just added some new photos of Y50 on its official website!
And...are they having some kind of promotion right now? Save up to 36% on y510p?? I believe that means Y50 is coming out soon as they are trying to sell out the older models...