*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Never was the biggest fan of mixing pastes, but if I remember correctly with my past uses of AS5, doesn't it have a burn in period?

 

Your GPU temp is about spot on, your CPU temps are still too high. Undervolted on a 4.6ghz OC mine barely hits 73 degrees at times and this is in Mass Effect which is heavy CPU dependant.

 

I don't remember. I stopped using that paste about 2008 or 2009. There are too many other products that are superior to it.

 

Yeah I used to use it on RROD Xbox 360's haha.

I looked into it. 200 hour cure time, but only makes a 1-3 deg C difference. So not really anything worth noting with his temps.

 

Hey guys, I'm about to order this little beast but I have a question does the two M.2 SSDs can have RAID 0 / 1 ? Any one did RAID on this machine? Good idea, bad idea? Thanks!

 

I'm going to buy the IC Diamond thermal paste and do what @Mr. Fox suggested, trying it without a shim and see how it goes.
@Donald@HIDevolution do you have any Idea about when I can buy from you the CMOS mod kit?

 

I'm assuming the heatsink won't fit properly unless you have the shim there, otherwise why would HIDevolution include it, so it might be a good idea to leave the shim. (Although I guess it wouldn't hurt to try it without a shim, but I would do a build & then teardown to see if the paste gets spread properly by the pressure before you turn on your laptop - don't want to burn out your CPU if there is zero contact between heatsink & chip as a result of removing the shim). Shims are only there to be used as spacers (filling excess gaps) if for whatever reason a heatsink is not making full contact with the chip.

 

It really depends on what you mean by good idea/ bad idea... If your data is important and your raid configuration is based off of large drives then raid 0 is probably not best for you. If you want the fastest performance when it comes to loading off the drives and the data doesn't have to be duplicated for redundancy then raid 0 is great. What is your metric for good idea? What are you using the book for, and are you installing any other drives for redundancy or file storage?

 

Run Cinebench twice in a row or wPrime 1024m (once should be enough) before taking it apart and make note of the temperatures. Apply the paste without a shim, but do not fully assemble the machine with the bottom cover and battery, etc. Run the same tests without the shim and compare the results. Pull the heat sink off again and add the shim with paste on both sides and compare again. Don't bother replacing thermal paste on the GPU until you have identified whether the temps are better with or without the shim and save that as a final assembly task. If temps seem to be the same, leave the shim in. If they are worse with the shim, take it out. If the temps seem the same both ways, having a shim there causes no problem, and it may actually be advantageous over the longer term because if the IC Diamond is plugging up a gap it will degrade faster (will shrink and dry out being exposed to air). The paste will last longer if there is good contact between all mating surfaces and no place for air to get in and dry things up.

You can also remove the c-clips that hold the CPU heat sink screws and springs captive on the heat sink. I did this on the P870DM3 and it made a massive improvement in contact between the CPU and heat sink. What was happening is the heat sink was being slid down against those retainer clips before the springs were able to press the heat sink against the IHS. By removing the retainer clips the heat sink can be slid down further on the screws without any impediment. I did this to the Tornado F5 and it helped it a little bit. Not as profoundly as it did the P870DM3. MSI uses a different type of c-clip and it is much more difficult to remove. You need to have some small side-cutter type of pliers to grab the edge of the clip in the center and tear it off the screw. There is not much of an edge to grab onto to pull them off, so they need to be smaller pliers that can bite hard but small enough to grab something small. (Sorry, I have no photos to demonstrate what I am attempting to explain.) On the Clevo they are spring steel and will easily unsnap. It took maybe 2 or 3 minutes to remove all 4 of them on the Clevo and around 20 minutes, with a lot of fiddle-farting, to get them off the screws on the Tornado F5.

 

Yes I want the fastest performance for video editing mainly and some 3D applications like Blender, recording in 4k gaming etc... So I think it's a good idea, is this laptop able to raid 0 two NVME SSD (960pro) ? Thanks man

 

I don't have my book yet, so I'm not the best to answer. I've heard NVME doesn't provide much of an increase in performance so they may not be worth the extra cash though. Who are you purchasing through?

 

OK thanks for info though, I will buy it from HID, when will you get yours?

 

Talk to Donald or Ted. They'll give you all the info you need. If you're not sure how something works or why just tell them your intended use and they'll make recommendations without trying to blindly dig into your pockets. Once you decide, post your build in your signature. You've made a great choice with supplier and machine.

 

Bit of tinkering, no delid yet...

 

Playing with Linux on the Tornado F5. This SSD used to be in the Alienkiller II and I did not change the hostname. It's now 'Linux-Beast' so I can move it around without causing name conflicts on my home network.

I wish @unclewebb had a Linux version of ThrottleStop, but I probably won't be doing this for long. Only temporarily while I am getting the BPX NVMe SSD replaced on RMA. I'm running Linux on my "portable" Kingston M.2 SSD.

 

What did you repaste with? Did you do any other mods? How's the gaming performance (especially temperature-wise?)

I repasted my Fangbook with Kryonaut - and at first it didn't seem to make any difference compared to the stock thermal pad on the GPU and the stock paste on the CPU. But the next day, the temperatures seemed much better; low 80s on both the CPU and GPU in Ghost Recon Wildlands, which is 5-10 degrees C better than before.

This is with a -100 mV undervolt and the CPU multiplier at 42x.

 

How about, "I have no idea whether my HIDevolution EVOC has one of the heatsinks, because I haven't taken torn it down beyond opening the bottom cover to install an extra SSD, because.....my system Just Works the way it's supposed to work."

 

I finally will get a day off Sunday, and I'm thinking perhaps to retry my Linux dual-boot installation then. Thanks for pointing the way.

 

Don't do RAID 0. Just...don't. It places all of your data at risk if either drive fails. You don't need the performance of striping RAID 0 on top of an NVMe SSD. Here's what I'm getting on this machine, with just one Samsung 960 Pro (2.0 TB):



If you want RAID 1, that will give you a lot of reliability, fully-performant read, but a penalty on write performance.

Don't think an SSD can never fail. I had a different laptop model before I bought this one, and that unit came factory-configured with RAID 0. After two weeks of use, just as I had started migrating my real data onto the machine, one of the two SSDs failed, and my data was lost (fortunately, I had full backups).

RAID 0, in my opinion as a sysadmin, makes sense only in two situations:

1. You are using it for high-speed scratch storage (such as for the /tmp or /var/tmp filesystem on a Linux server, or temporary database tables that are created and destroyed during a batch job, or for swap space on large servers).
2. You are running RAID 0 on top of, or underneath, one of the fault-tolerant RAID levels to mitigate the other level's performance penalty. For example, RAID 10, RAID 50, or RAID 60 involve making multiple RAID 1, 5, or 6 volumes and then spanning those with RAID 0.

Given that you only have two NVMe sockets in this laptop, you can't implement RAID 5, 6, 10, 50, or 60. Stick with RAID 1 if you want best reliability, or just treat the SSDs as JBOD (just a box of disks) and simply have a C: drive and a D: drive. FWIW, if you're doing a lot of gaming, I can tell you that Steam Client does a pretty good job of letting you split games across more than one disk. My gaming tower has Steam games installed onto more than one disk, no issues.

 

Linux Mint is awesome. The only true issue with Linux is the serious lack of awesome stuff for it in a Windows-dominated world. We take very ordinary things like CPU-Z, GPU-Z, HWiNFO64, ThrottleStop, XTU, MSI Afterburner, Precision X, RivaTuner Statistic Server, etc., etc. for granted. There is almost none of this basic necessity stuff available, and what little is available runs in a terminal window or has a Windows 3.1 VGA quality GUI.

And, that is a real shame because I do think it is a better OS than Windows... especially better than Windows 10.

Here are Shadow of Mordor and Tomb Raider Linux benchmarks with Ultra graphics presets.

 

Terminal window....you say that as if it's a bad thing. Seriously, although I personally prefer command line for many things, I get what you're saying because people like you and me are not the typical computer user. I will say, though, that one advantage of command shell over GUI is the ability to automate with scripting.

Never used Mint myself. Nothing against it, but my brew of choice is xfce4 desktop on Debian distro. Freedom to choose is a Good Thing (tm).

Nice FPS rates. Contrary to popular belief (with commercially-motivated bias?), Linux does not have poor graphics performance. It just doesn't have as many users, so the game companies avoid it from a perceived lack of market space. Valve supporting Linux with Steam made a world of difference.

 

No, it is not a bad thing. I am comfortable using a terminal window or a DOS prompt. For many utilitarian purposes that is better. I was a happy MS-DOS user and was slow to accept Windows. I thought it was an OS for wimps for a long time. It still feels more powerful issuing syntax based instructions.

Having to use one for things that are more useful with a GUI is not good. It is also not good when using one is necessary for what should be an easy point and click operation.

I hate Windows UAC and always disable that. Having to use sudo for simple things is equally annoying and inconvenient.

 

I went with Kryonaut and also swapped out the thermal pads on the GPU for some Phobya ones I had kicking about in my old watercooling spares box. For gaming, I opted for a static voltage of 1.075mV, with all cores at 44x. This keeps the CPU well below 90C with all fans a blazing in maxed out Witcher3. OC on the GPU is +235/+530. The highest temperature I have seen on the GPU is 64C

 

that's some nice results. its sad but true also macOS is lacking in this stuff, its sad. there is no real software to overclock not even on real.

 

I will copy paste your instructions to a notepad.

Awesome, I will go with a 1070mV instead of my current 1100mV on CPU, seems I also should get some extra thermal pads while at it, I will contact HIDevolution to have it shipped to me with the battery mod kit and IC Diamond.

 

I got the SSD in, time to shove some games into it.

 

Ha, brilliant, you're at 4.6Ghz, the same as my 6700K, but you're only at 1.03V whereas I'm at 1.32V!!! I guess that's good news for you!

EDIT: DOH, my mistake, that was your GPU voltage I was looking at! What's your Vcore for your 4.6Ghz 7700K?

 

Excellent choice

 

I have a static of 1.1152mV set in Throttlestop on the core

 

2.5 hours solid gameplay on Witcher3 and at one point my 1070 had actually hit 67C

 

those are very good temps, what is ambient temp around the laptop?
my temps are just over 80c with continuous 24hr unity baking @4GHZ, this laptop is really cool. even a macbook pro 2015 runs way hotter with a baby i5 U processor. my ambient is 25-32c.

 

Very good, no wonder these 7700K's can get in the region of +400Mhz more than 6700K's when overclocking!

 

I'm burning in fire with a static 1100mV, I guess I really do need to repaste, more over I think I should use Throttlestop for a change.

 

Ambient is usually around 21-22C.

 

What do you guys think of this laptop vs GT73VR w/ GTX 1080 and i7-7820HK in terms of performance?

 

i think comparing to a 17 in inch like the EUROCOM Sky X7E2 will better, also you can equip the x7e2 with a 1440p 120htz display which is much better with a 1080GTX.
also while a 7820hk is a good cpu it's no where near the performance of a decently overclocked 7700k or even a stock 7700k unless overclocked to the limits. also both are priced similarly so that wont be a issue.

 

Cranked up the AC unit for a little more boost...



http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/12138490

 

Comparing these two computers is quite difficult. On one hand, you have the GT73VR that does have good cooling compared to rest of the BGA crap out there. The GTX 1080 inside it also has a higher TDP limit compared to the 1080 inside the Tornado, which gives the GT73VR a 3 to 4% edge in graphics.

On the other hand, the Tornado completely destroys the GT73VR overall in computing prowess due to its DT CPU. Check out the MSI Overclocker's Lounge Leader's Board to get an idea.

@UsmanKhan is right though, you shouldn't compare the two. Check out the Clevo P870KM1 compared to the GT73VR but then that would be a massacre even with a single GTX 1080 equipped with a VC.

 

BGA will never be a desktop replacement. Never ever!!

 

Have you bested that insane F5 firestrike benchmark yet?

 

I don't have Windows 10 right now, so it will have to wait until I get my BPX replacement (RMA in process). Futuremark also needs to fix Fire Strike... it's all messed up now.

It's already pretty close to my P870DM3 with single GPU. http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/11900720/fs/12137762

 

Those are crazy benchmarks. Doesn't the 870 run the 1080 at a higher tdp?

 

With stock vBIOS, yes that is definitely true. The 1080 in the TF5 can't keep up at all. But, I have a modded vBIOS on this one and it actually has higher TDP than the P870's 1080s (which are still stock vBIOS). When pushed to the max the Clevo 1080's with the stock vBIOS are approaching 200W and the TF5 running stock tips the TDP scales at 220W. The down side to that is the TF5 heat sink is not designed for that much TDP and it's tough to keep cool for ordinary gaming.

These are with the CPU at 46x4 and 1.075V static (override) voltage. GPU running stock clocks.

 

Do you know if the HID Prema bios will allow that same control? What does it take to cool it at 180 watts? What about 200 watts? When do you need the bigger power supply to push the extra power?

 

You need to be on AC cooling to do any kind of overclocking with 1080 GPUs, with stock or modded vBIOS. The @Prema vBIOS I have is a "draft" version that has not been optimized. It draws a ton of power without any overclock and gets very toasty just playing games.

I just did this mod yesterday. Didn't help that much. Shaved maybe 2°-3°C off the CPU and about 1°C-2°C off the GPU. So small it is difficult to quantify, but it certainly did not increase the temps at all. I also replaced the stock thermal pads with Fujipoly / mod/smart Ultra Extreme XR-m Thermal Pad - 60 x 50 x 1.0 - Thermal Conductivity 17.0 W/mK and it make no measurable difference in GPU core temps. I don't know if it is keeping something else cooler like RAM or VRMs or chokes.

The thing this machine needs above anything else is more powerful fans. That will make the quiet laptop nuts unhappy, but the high temps (I believe) are due to extra wimpy fans that can't push enough air through the heat sink radiators. The temps plateau and just stay like around 88°C and the CPU and GPU temps are almost identical (give or take 1°C-2°C).


Shims were glued with Arctic Silver 7g Premium Silver Thermal Cooling Adhesive Set (ASTA-7G)

 

Where would you start first to cool the machine if you were starting over?

 

Bottom cover mod and liquid metal thermal paste on the CPU make more difference than anything else.

The GPU temps are the same with ICD, Kryonaut and liquid metal. This is why I think the fans are too wimpy. All those thermal pastes pull heat off the GPU well enough, but cannot get rid of heat fast enough and start storing it up. If I max out the fans I can barely feel air pressure coming out the vents. If I leave the fans on auto I can feel even less and CPU and GPU swiftly overheat. The temp difference with the fans going full blast is not that much, but it would be significant if the fans were more powerful. I think the heat sinks themselves may be adequate.

 

Thanks for the info. There must be fan motors that are more powerful than stock. Can you increase the gpu voltage at all without AC?

 

What happened to your BPX? I purchased one based off your recommendation but sold it alongside the P775DM3. I was going to get another one to use in my Tornado F5, but if they are faulty drives, I'll hold off.

 

Is your comparison on indefinite hold?