*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Normally, most sane companies will treat customers who buy the "full freight version" (pro license at full retail, not discount) at least a little better than its cheapskate customers. /sarcasm. I guess it goes to show us that MSFT's real customers are the developers, not the OEMs, and certainly not the end users.

 

But, but the Placebo effect works for some

 

So with svet bios and changing every power setting to higher than 150w. I still get power throttling on 7700k past 80w.

Help! Thanks
@Mr. Fox @johnksss @Rage Set

 

SVET's BIOS is like the wild west and there are duplicates of BIOS options. What are you trying to reach? 5.0Ghz? 5.1Ghz? When I get home, I'll take some photos of my BIOS for you to try out. Also pages back, I think @Mr. Fox posted his if my memory serves me correctly.

 

Loving this laptop still, still waiting on those bottom panels @Donald@HIDevolution so I can get a spare one to hack up.

Quick question, has anyone tried to replace the speakers in the unit with the ones that come standard in the GT62VR? Having had both units, I think the ones in that unit are far better than the ones in the F5. These seem extremely weak and underpowered IMO compared to what was in the GT62. Could be the extra software that comes with that unit though, can't seem to get it to install on the F5 (soundblaster crap-o).

 

What EC version? Mine runs like crap with EC 112 or 113 due to throttling. EC 111 is good.

Yes, I did post them. The Eurocom version of Svet BIOS that I helped them with got cleaned up. The redundant items were removed and the dangerous settings hidden.

 

Bitspower 6700K IHS (1.0mm taller than 7700K IHS) made a minor improvement in temps. Haven't replaced it on the P870DM3 yet, but @bloodhawk has and he saw similar improvements.

Album posted here with before and after temps: Tornado F5 Bitspower Mod - Mr. Fox

 

Seems like 107. Can you pm me all the settings you changed?


Thanks brother.

 

PM Sent. Also sharing it here.

 

Why you don't consider hybrid water cooling?

 

Would you travel with similar like this?

 

Beautiful, isn't it

Not very accommodating for travel, even with the "light" carry case...

The Hydro-dock is much improved on the GX800, for cooling and sound, but not so much for size

Newer more compact case for the GX800 / dock too...

But, realistically most of us game and work at a "location" where we keep a set of peripherals - keyboard, mouse, screen, etc - and a "dock" for some as well. This could easily just be at my endpoints of travel for high performance work, and run the GX700 / GX800 on air-cooling when mobile.

 

Great, I fix it for you. I have a cabin by the sea and caravan up on the mountain I use often. Perhaps considered put on my trailer every time I'm on my trip there. +Pay extra road toll due longer vehicles. Or buy a bigger car. In worst case let my wife drive second car, but pay the double. YEEES

 

Well, how about we "standardize" on "device cooling", and have standard connectors - that come out of our work desks - the cooling is built into the desk!!

Same for the car, back seat, drop down the table in the back of the front seat, plug in the in/out water cooling tubes, and bingo - full speed performance while mobile!

Same for the cafe / restaurant, standardized in/out cooling tubes built in, along with wireless charging built in!!

We've already got the tables with wireless charging at a number of cafe's / restaurant's around here, only a matter of time before we get some cooling help standardized.

We're gonna have to have some kind of mobile cooling better than built in fans to accommodate all these hot GPU's and CPU's coming in the next few years - or performance is going to stagnate - without some incredible leap in technology...

 

I would prefer incredible leap in technology... Or maybe Nvidia will go back to M naming for notebook graphics aka less Powa for next future laptopsThis is the first step

 

For the reasons @Papusan and @hmscott pointed out using the example of the ASUS BGA turdbook with the colostomy bag cooling system.

If I were going to anchor it to a desk, then I might as well just skip having a laptop and build a new desktop.

Bitspower IHS helped the P870DM3 as well.

http://imgur.com/a/1gObR

 

What Asus have there is actually what I want as a cooling system, I travel every 2 weeks, I hate using 2 different systems so one machine with such cooling is my desire, only here Asus is a BGA notebook, unlike the Tornado F5, this is a true beast. I'm suffering from these high temps, as soon as I get the CMOS kit I WILL try so many low voltage runs to see where I can take it, to lower temps that is then from there I will wait for HIDevolution to bring out to me the @Prema Bios.

I have to admit that I have much to learn about overclocking CPUs and GPUs.

Edit: where I can buy that IHS from bitspower?

 

Thanks

 

Thank you

 

HERE

 

Just get a portable AC unit like I have. When you want to run crazy benchmarks you use that. Just set the laptop on top of that and let it rip. No need to mess with external contraptions to reduce the functionality of your laptop.

As an added bonus, if your work area gets too hot, you can even overclock yourself without overheating. Whenever I start thermal throttling I fire that puppy up and I'm feeling good in no time.

 

Only buy the Skylake version. The Kaby Lake version will not help and may actually be worse than stock. The Skylake version is taller by 1.0mm. It fits perfectly for Kaby Lake.
Dimensions (WxHxD) : 34x34.5x4.4 MM - https://www.bitspower.com.tw/index....ucts_id=4381&zenid=rle815o9jq776g8fpbds5ohuj3

 

Here is 4.8Ghz with only max fans after installing the Bitspower 6700K IHS. Conductonaut on both sides of the IHS. I'd say that's pretty reasonable core temps for this baby beast.

 

Can't argue with that!

 

@tgipier Do you still need help with the throttling or did Mr. Fox's PDF help you?

 

I did this additional modding today. Decided to go nuts with extra copper, hoping the GPU might run cooler. So far it seems to have changed nothing with GPU temps, but I need to do more testing before I dismiss it as having been a waste of time and resources.



The foam is to help hold the cooler for the CPU VRMs and chokes. I have it mounted with sticky pads and a little help from IC Diamond thermal paste, but the foam is thick enough to use the bottom cover for pressure just to be sure it stays good and tight, at least long enough for the thermal paste to start to harden up.

 

It looks really nice, great job

With some directed airflow over those new copper surfaces to improve cooling you might notice a real improvement.

 

There some issue with ec but i am good otherwise.

 

I can see the heatsinks that you've added that aren't on the heatpipes helping, but the copper plates placed over the top of the heat pipes - well I can potentially see them trapping warm air underneath those copper slabs where there is an air gap between each of the copper pipes. Adding extra copper, like you have, might just enable your chips to stay cooler for longer, but I can imagine that the ultimate peak temperatures would be the same on long runs - the increased weight of copper might just be acting as a heat absorbing reservoir rather than aiding any transfer of that heat out of the laptop - takes longer to build up the temperature, but not doing anything to release extra heat from the laptop chassis. If you can get some solid airflow over the heatpipes & heatsink assembly as a whole then you might see improvements, but then you'd be running it without a bottom cover - that's my thinking on these kind of mods. (but then again you'd get better temperatures by increasing airflow running without a bottom cover anyway, regardless of mods or not)

 

This mod is very similar to how I modded the 980M heat sinks on the Sky X9 to get 980 SLI to not be on the verge of bursting into flames and it was very effective. I was able to reduce GPU load temps by around 15°-20°C. Part of the thought of bridging the heat pipes is to help balance out the thermals across the heat pipes. The two center pipes directly over the GPU core get worked the hardest. The copper sinks on the aluminum part of the heat sink were added not for the core, but the VRMs and inductors and other things that get the aluminum frame on the GPU heat sink hot. I think that part of the mod was effective because it is not as hot to the touch.

So far it does seem to take longer for the CPU and GPU to reach their normal operating temperatures. Nothing is hotter than before, but the improvement is marginal overall (about 1°-2°C so it is difficult to even validate such a small change).

The thing this model needs more than anything else is more powerful fans. These are pretty pathetic in terms of air-moving capacity and it seems the CPU and GPU reach a certain point and plateau on the temps. GPU plateaus about 88°-89°C under sustained load (like gaming) with max fans. So, I think what is happening is the GPU heat sink gets saturated and the wimpy fans set on max takes them as low as it can until it flat-lines and more air needs to get pushed through the radiator to lower the temps from that plateau.

If I run the fans on 'Auto' they might as well be turned off. Playing with the fan curves is also useless since maxed out isn't enough air volume to be useful. Anything less than max fans is a problem for GPU temps.

 

Ah yes, that's an interesting idea about levelling heat load amoungst the different heat pipes, I hadn't thought of that one - makes sense. Thought I saw some folks here trying to find different fans, perhaps with higher air flow?

 

@Mr. Fox Have you rather considered try using Aluminum who is better at heat dissipation vs. Copper who is better at heat transfer(copper is useful for pipes and heatsink itself)? If you use your mod U3 with those strong Vardar fans then will the fans make a storm of air around the extra metal and remove the heat direct from the pipes-heasink and heat wouldn't follow down the pipes(F5 have weak fans as I know). Maybe My suggestion is more useful for the Clevo with better and bigger vents in the bottom lids who will open for more storm of air from the U3. Hope you understand what I meant.

"Aluminum has the ability to absorb heat faster than copper, and when removed from the heat source, will cool faster because it is less dense than copper."

 

My understanding of that last quote you put in italics - Aluminium is lighter than copper (less dense) therefore it WILL cool down quicker because it holds less total heat for any given volume & surface area - this doesn't mean that aluminium is better at dissipating heat (a quantity) than copper, just that it's heat capacity is less, so I personally don't think aluminium would be a better choice over copper.

 

What I've read from before. Take 2 same sized metal. One Aluminum and one Copper. Heat them to the same temperature high temp. See what will happens when heat is shut of. The copper block will stay hotter. The Aluminum will cool faster with higher free air temps. Because Copper, being higher mass, will retain heat longer.

Yes, Because of higher thermal conductivity copper will suck up more heat more quickly, but because of it's higher mass it's going to STAY hot. Aluminum is not as good a heat absorber but, because of it's lower mass, it releases the heat more quickly. Do not take everything for good fix from me, but try to see my logic. But I'm not a chemist if you think so

Edit. Here is an article regarding Copper vs. Aluminum - Thermal Conductivity & Radiation There are many other explanations out there. But who are you supposed to believe on? Many theories out there on the web. It must be tested by yourself.

 

Yes, I agree with this bit I've quoted from you, but the heat is not just "shut off" in a laptop cooling solution. Copper stays hotter for longer because it can contain a greater quantity of heat for any given volume & surface area, that doesn't mean it transfers less heat to the surroundings (out of the laptop) when doing so, just that it has a larger reservoir of heat that can be filled to begin with. Having a larger heat reservoir will help the CPU stay cool, because more heat is able to be transferred to the copper before the temperatures increase, and I should think the amount of heat being dissipated per unit surface area of copper & aluminium would be the same or maybe even an advantage to the copper due to the internal better heat conduction of the copper (twice the efficiency) to the cooling surface. I'll take a look at that article you linked though. EDIT: ah, it's not an article you linked, but another forum! Haha, I'll take a look though still. Not sure I found much of value in that forum after a quick look, but a link to heatsinks on wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_sink
@Mr. Fox , looks like you've decreased the Spreading Resistance (see heat sink link above) with your copper plate mods between your heat pipes, good job!

 

Time to see if you can find another set of fans that will work with this machine. That will likely be your last mod, but securing those fans will be tough, though.

 

Before I say anything else, I would like to thank everyone involved in this thread for the wealth of information on this amazing piece of technology. It's taken me most of this week to catch up on 500+ pages of history, but it has absolutely re-sparked my passion for laptops again.

I've just recently finished building my first desktop, and was in the market for a gaming laptop that I can use while traveling extensively all over the country. Company I work with has generously provided me with a 15" Macbook Pro (AMD R9) to work with, but I quickly discovered that gaming on it is a sad joke. So I started looking around for a powerful yet portable laptop and was disappointed to find that not much as changed in the mobile computer market, with parts that cannot be upgraded and various quality issues. Not knowing any better, I ordered an Asus ROG Strix GL502VS and called it a day. Next day, I was discussing my purchase with a co-worker who had a laptop labeled 'Sager'. He recommended that I should check it out and I was very impressed how customizable it was, so began digging deeper. Through Sager, I noticed another company called 'Clevo' also sold quality systems that are extremely customizable, and was reading up on some reviews when I finally came across this thread and HIDevolution.

Once I saw what 16L-G-1080 could do, I immediately cancelled my order for the Asus laptop. I wasn't even aware that you can put a desktop CPU into a 15" laptop, let alone having a GTX 1080 that can be replaced. I also learned you can 'delid' a CPU to drastically cut temperatures, as well as everything else this 500+ page thread has taught me. I'm absolutely stunned and grateful for all the effort Mr.Fox and others has put into spreading the knowledge on this amazing machine and I hope I can return the favor by contributing to this community.

I ordered mine early this week through Donald and he was exactly what you guys described him to be like. Great attitude and very easy to talk to, helped me every step of the way. Also, HIDevolution has been fantastic when I called after the purchase to add/change parts and services, and I feel confident that they will continue to be great as we move further into different processing stages.

I'm still amazed just how customizable everything is and can't wait until I get my hands on this ridiculous machine. I'm already thinking about how to implement Mr.Fox's bottom cover mod, and any other possible tweaks that can make this machine even better. I just might pulled the trigger on the IHS Mr.Fox linked to few pages back, if their latest model works on 7700K, and report back to the community. Also, I was planning on looking for a replacement fan once I knew the exact specs on the stock, even if I had to have it custom built somehow.

I ended up writing quiet a bit, and thank you for reading if you made it this far. Just wanted to share my story and my appreciation for this community, thank you!

 

Welcome to the MSI 16L13 family. My advice is before you start implementing mods, test your machine thoroughly. @Mr. Fox and others are in the upper echelon of extreme OC'ers. Mr. Fox pushes his machines way beyond their limits for maximum performance. Hahaha, I am surprised he has yet to create a liquid cooling mod.

With that said, you will not need half of his mods if you are going to be gaming, unless you are going to join in the OC'ing fun. If you have any questions, feel free to post your questions here and I am sure one of us will be able to answer. Since you are a member of EVOC gaming team, @Phoenix will be sure to help you too.

EDIT: If that is your first DT build, that's my territory. I am currently working on a custom water loop.

 

You must see it in full. We are not talking about storing heat(copper or aluminum STAY hotter long time aka reservoir of heat). But remove the heat with pushing massive air flow into the chassis and around the extra metal mods with strong fans from the modified U3 Cooler. The airflow will be recirculated the whole time. The heat from the extra metal shouldn't go from pipes-heatsink to the grilles and be pushed out from cpu-gpu fans. Maybe you don't understand what I mean.

 

Welcome. You will really enjoy the laptop. Feel free to ask any questions, most people will be more than happy to help!

 

Rage, appreciate the reply. I must be honest here, considering I started with initial budget of $1500, things have already gotten wildly out of control. However, I think its absolutely worth my time and resources to see how far I could push this machine, I haven't been this excited over a tech in years. Also, if I'm dropping this much cash, I'd rather go for the best possible.

Would you recommend silicon lottery binned CPU in general? Also, does silicon lottery binned CPU have any positive thermal effect on the overall CPU temperature?

 

Much appreciated, thank you.

How are you liking yours so far? I noticed you have the GTX 1070, how does it perform thermally?

 

There is a stark divide on silicon lottery binned CPU's. I personally, will not buy one, especially for the 7700K. Thus far, I have purchased about six 7700K's and all except for one (I blame the cooling in the laptop) have been able to reach a stable 5.1Ghz. My best 7700K can reach 5.4Ghz with liquid cooling and I'm trying hard to reach 5.5Ghz.

On the other side, you have firm believers of the SL CPU's, one of which is @Phoenix. Last gen 6700K's were hit or miss, so there was a market for binned CPU's.

 

Interesting, its definitely a huge cost that has little practically use for it. I'm not sure if we can handle sustained 5.1+GHz for any extended use for various reasons (can we?) but I was mainly curious if the 'purity' that makes these chips faster will also allow better thermal performance during more reasonable OC.

I'd be interested in trying it out regardless.

 

Yes, in fact I am going to attach finned aluminum plates (like those in the photos) to the motherboard side of the CPU heat pipes. There is a big useful air space there. Where I have the copper shims now there is not enough space to fit under the bottom cover.

I think placing more metal close to the radiators is better than closer to the CPU. That should help draw or wick and hold heat near the radiator end of the heat sink.

 

Doesn't matter, I think you're missing my point too. It don't matter, I still love copper though! ;-)

 

Missed this post by Mr.Fox. I went ahead and purchased BP-OCCIHS-SL, the Skylake version. Thanks for the tip and I'll do some testing once I receive my laptop and all...

 

I run 4.8 daily and I might even do 4.9/5.0 for certain workloads, but 5.1+ for me is strictly for benchmark purposes. Keeping it at 5.1+ will cut into the CPU's life (even that will produce a debate). Some DT OC'ers do run their 7700K 4.9 daily with adequate liquid cooling.

 

Thats some great numbers. I would like to hope I can get mine stable at 4.8GHz, but thermals will have to be consider first.

I noticed Silicon Lottery sells 5.2GHz CPUs, which only 7% of tested chips achieve according to SL. I'm curious if these chips will have better thermal properties compared to standard CPUs, both running at 4.7GHz OC. Unless someone knows for a fact that it wont, I wouldn't mind being a guinea pig to test the theory.

 

indeed @mizerab1e , since you are an EVOC Team Member, I can login to your laptop and tweak it for you if you want me to......

Here are my tweaks:

1- Uninstallation of all the Windows Store Garbage Apps
2- Removing all Windows 10 Privacy Invasion stuff like Telemetry, sending your keystrokes to Microsoft, automatically installing suggested apps in the background, allowing Microsoft to conduct expirements on your laptop, disabling automatic driver updates through Windows updates, disabling Windows 10 ads, disabling cortana, etc.
3- Removal of nVIDIA and Intel Telemetry
4- Adjusting a lot of options in PC Settings like disabling Windows Tablet Mode (you have a laptop not a tablet), disabling suggestions appearing in the start menu, disabling automatically connecting to Paid WiFi Hotspots, disabling Game DVR which reduced performance in games, and a lot more.
5- Replacing Cortana with a much better search tool that finds results instantly
6- Restoring the classic Windows 7 Calculator and Windows Photo Viewer
7- Restoring the Classic Windows 7 Start Menu