*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

linux-phc library, required to support tlp hasn't been updated for quite a while, so unless you have a very old Intel CPU the undervolting features aren't working:

TLP Settings
http://linrunner.de/en/tlp/docs/tlp-configuration.html#undervolting

linux-phc (Linux Processor Hardware Control) kernel patches
http://www.linux-phc.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2

Hopefully you can set everything you want in the BIOS

 

I already had liquid metal on it before. There was 1°C lower temps on the GPU after I reassembled it, so that's close enough to call it the same before and after.

I think I may have posted this before already, but the GPU on this system does not seem to benefit from liquid metal. My GPU temps are more or less the same with every paste I have tested. The GPU runs hot and I think the heat sink soaks up as much as it can and simply cannot get rid of it fast enough. There is no place for it to go. Needs more heat pipes and larger radiators, but there's not a lot of room for extra cooling in a 15-inch chassis. Stronger fans might help. I run with the fans maxed out pretty much 24/7.

 

Yes I stated something like this before. GPU's (on laptops) won't see much improvement from liquid metal because of the significantly larger surface area, which is already saturating the heatsink's cooling power because a larger flat surface area transfers heat much better. That's why you will notice much more heat from the exhaust vents coming from a 60C temperature GPU, than an 80C CPU. The GPU is burning more watts, generating more heat, and more heat is being transferred off the die faster.

The CPU heatsink is also large, but its the silicon surface area itself that is smaller. (whether or not you're using a head spreader on a socketed previously delidded chip, or BGA filth. That's why using LM works better there.

Desktop 1080's will benefit more from LM, because of much higher power draw and better heatsink/fans, which means improving heat transfer gives benefits. I suspect desktop 1070's won't benefit much at all.

For laptops, just Kryonaut is good enough on GPU's.

 

Here is some new wallpaper for your 15-inch turdbook slayers for anyone that wants it.

 

Yeah. That's what I found out when I did some googling. I wonder if the unlocked bios offered by eurocom has this option. Does anybody know?

 

The stock MSI BIOS is utterly worthless and would be even more worthless with Linux (since ThrottleStop and XTU only work with Windows). The unlocked BIOS provided by Eurocom and the unlocked @Prema BIOS provided by HIDevolution will allow you to configure everything to your own specifications.

I agree with @Papusan about the CPU. Get the unlocked K CPU and then you'll have a lot of flexibility the crappy CPUs do not offer. You can de-tune a 7700K to behave like one of the wimpy processors if that's what you want to do.

 

There is another option if the BIOS can't be set for OC, and that's to run Windows Host (to allow OC), and run Linux inside a Guest VM.

The reverse is my recommendation for people that want to buy new hardware and run Windows 7 or 8.1 instead of Windows 10.

Run Linux Host on the new hardware, and run Windows 7/8.1 Guest in a VM - with passthrough to the GPU hardware for gaming.

There's more than one way to get these things to do what we need

 

i have try run Ubuntu on my, but all screen got Black (internal black screen, external no signal ) when i plug external screen @@
Please, anybody have this issues ?

 

Hopefully someone with this laptop and booting Ubuntu can help with specifics, but here is a generic how to set up laptop external (multiple screen) in Ubuntu:

How To Use Multiple and External Displays In Linux Ubuntu
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/use-multiple-external-displays-linux-ubuntu/

And, a few more:
https://www.google.com/search?clien...Linux+Ubuntu&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

 

I have Mint Linux working on mine. I had no trouble, but Linux is notorious for having stupid problems with display drivers. You need to boot it with basic VGA drivers and then install proprietary NVIDIA drivers. If I am remembering correctly, Ubuntu tries to use the Nouveau drivers by default or something along those lines, and those drivers always caused me black screen problems. I really like Linux and really started hating Micro$loth from Windows 8.X forward, but the lack of functionality that comes along with using Linux is just more than I can handle.

 

One of the things that attracted me to this machine is that I can easily replace the fans if I wear out the bearings. That being said, I run in normal mode most of the time, and just bump them to max when I'm doing one of my lightmap bakes, or a a video transcode, or other gigundous silicon-melting batch job. It's not that I'm worried about the fan life, but rather that I prefer the quiet. My workload is very batch-driven and bursty -- that is, I'm either doing very CPU/GPU-light things, where temps are a non-issue, or I'm running something crazy intense for half an hour or more at a time. So the manual fan mode is just the ticket for me.

Once I have the Prema BIOS, I'll experiment again to see how I want to run things.

 

When I get mine back from HID Evolution, I intend to spend some time messing with a Linux installation before I reinsert my NVMe SSD with Win10 on it. I've actually already installed a SATA SSD that I intend to dedicate to Linux. I haven't yet decided if it will be Ubuntu, Xubuntu, or Debian, but those are all dpkg-based systems, so hopefully what I learn will apply across all.

 

Which hypervisor are you using for that? I've never been able to get that working very well with VMware, and VMware's virtualized drivers only support DX10 (yawn!). Are you recommending KVM or one of the other FLOSS hypervisors in particular?

 

In this machine. Do the MSI 1070 or 1080 cards have an SLI connector on them?

 

Never mind I got my answer. Thanks

 

@Mr. Fox It looks like those cards in the 16L13 or Tornado have a spot for SLI but not soldered to the card. Is it possible to find the same size cards with SLI?

 

That is correct. The 1080 in my 16L13 has the solder pads, but no SLI connector. I am not sure if MSI may have some GPUs that are exactly the same physical dimensions except with SLI connectors. Maybe @hmscott knows. Assuming the GPU PCBs are "wired" for it, SLI connectors could be soldered in place easily enough (if they can be found for purchase).

 

Now that would be a cool test for the DM. With either the 1070s or 1080s

 

We already know Vortex 1070 has SLI connectors. @bennyg bought some. Unfortunately, I do not believe there is a Vortex available with 1080 SLI to rob GPUs from. https://us.msi.com/Vortex/Vortex-G65VR-Geforce®-GTX-1070-SLI.html#hero-overview

@Eurocom Support does not show an MSI 1080 the same size as the one in the 16L13 with SLI connectors. In fact, they don't even show this one as being available for purchase. http://www.eurocom.com/ec/upgrades()ec

Below is the MSI 1080 like the 16L13 has without SLI connectors.

 

You're right! and they have a wacky looking Quadro card. Don't know what that would fit.

 

I'm shutting down for the night. I'll touch base this weekend.

 

Here is what the Vortex 1070 looks like. http://www.ebay.com/itm/NVIDIA-GTX-1070-N17E-G2-A1-8GB-DDR5-MXM-3-0-Module-New-/282593815825 ...I am assuming it is what the 16L13 1070 looks like. Maybe someone that owns a Tornado F5 with 1070 can confirm if it looks exactly the same or not.

 

Damn that is how my GT62VR 6RE gtx 1070 looks like.

 

No, MSI has been careful to not issue SLI capable 1070 / 1080's singly or in pairs as they don't want someone to try to upgrade their older MSI laptops.

You could find a dead GT80S or GT83VR with an SLI pair + cable, but IDK how much effort it would take to make it work in another frame. Those GPU's don't support G-sync either, as they go into a laptop without G-sync.

My recommendation is to sell your older machine and buy a new one, that will come with warranty support and no further worries, and someone else can enjoy the rest of the operational life of your old laptop.

 

There are lots of how to's online for a number of distro's, and lots of Youtube videos.

Giving out the idea and pointing people in a direction is about as far as I will go for UNIX and Enterprise help outside work.

I help out on Windows and gaming because it's not my day job, UNIX is, so I don't want to keep doing that outside as well as inside work, I hope you'll understand.

 

That's what my GT73VR 1070 looks like.
Is this called MXM 3.0b format?

The 1080 card (as well as the earlier picture of the 1070) look way different...different positioning of GPU chip and VRM's....

 

Cool, thanks for confirming Brother @hmscott I had a hunch you would know the answer about the MSI GPUs. It sucks and it's a shame that MSI are intentionally being a horse's butt about that. Makes it too easy to hate on their brand when they pull a dirty stunt like that.

The project we are thinking about goes the opposite direction of buying a new machine. That just plays into their evil plan to leech more money out of us. We're looking to do something that flies in the face of that, for people that care about awesomeness more than a warranty and don't want to give up a great machine they already have. But, it will have to be a project with 1080 to be special enough to pursue. There are already examples of MSI 1070 being used in machines it was never intended for. And, G-stink won't be necessary. If it works, it will be awesome enough that G-Stink won't matter.

No, MXM 3.0b was like 680M, 780M, 880M and 980M. The Pascal 1070 and 1080 MXM cards are an offshoot of that, but nothing except the MXM connector is exactly the same as MXM 3.0b. The PCB dimensions are not compliant with MXM 3.0b standards, and 1080 is even more different.

The earlier picture was the 1080 like the one in the Tornado F5/EVOC 16L-G-1080, not a 1070.

 

It looks like we won't be able to upgrade CPU on T5 !

 

They said this before about KL on SL chips not compatible but that turned out not true, just a BIOS update made it work, now we need to see if this holds truth to what Asrock says.

 

In this upcoming project, if you figure out a single 1080 it'll be awesome. If a 1080 SLI get's figured out? You'll either get a few large job offers, or we might have to fit you for a Kevlar suit. You could ruffle some feathers in some big companies.

 

So I havent gotten on notebookreview for a while and I was wondering if anyone found a solution for the backlight problem (dim backlight once windows update with nvidia) back in april? I just re installed windows with the latest nvidia driver and im back to the problem

 

So I finally got this sexy beast back in my hands today, got a call to run out onsite for work, ended up only being gone for about 30 minutes and came back and this was waiting for me on my desk, so excited to be able to use this again. HID did the bottom panel mod for me, moved my 1 current stick of RAM from the slots under the motherboard to the accessible slots under the bottom panel per my request, and installed Prema, as well as fixed/replaced the screen and everything seems great now and temps seem significantly better than before while sitting here at work idling. Cannot wait to really start digging into this machine and playing around with it and trying to OC and learn more about all the various tweaks I can do now that I have better cooling on it.

@Hyaweh I believe there are fixes in place for this now. I believe Eurocoms newer or "unlocked" bios resolves the problem, I think Svets does and I believe Prema bios was supposed to resolve the brightness issue as well. I have noticed however since getting my laptop back that my brightness controls are still not functioning for me, which is not the biggest deal I was aware of it going into it that they wouldn't work but it would be super nice if it did. Do my Nvidia drivers need to be updated to something specific to resolve the issue? I believe I am still running 378.92 currently, does this need to be updated or do the controls still not work with Prema?

Either way, super excited to have this back, feels like forever I've been waiting for it after buying it, waiting for it to be built and shipped, then sending it right back for the bios and other stuff to be done, hopefully that's the end of that .

 

You will have to update your drivers to gain control over your brightness. At least I had to. Great to hear another positive experience.

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Thanks, updated my drivers to the most recent and it is working great now.

I also seem to have ended up with an extra CPU bracket in a bag in my box to clip the CPU into the socket?

 

How do you like your new mini monster? Did you give it a name? What are your plans for it upgrade wise and how you are using the mini monster?

I'm asking you because my EVOC was supposed to be with me today but it's delayed because I put too much work load on the guys at HIDevolution to have my laptop fully rebuilt the way I want it and fully upgraded....like there is no room for improvements left lol...maybe if I shell extra denniro for larger SSDs but it will not be a smart choice, just a money sink

Now if I speak about room for improvement I would say maybe a 8700K 6/12 cores/threads silicon lottery binned at 5.2Ghz to replace the 7700K. Oh Delidded & undervolt it for lower temps and overclock it to 5.0Ghz for daily use if possible.

@Mr. Fox @Phoenix @Prema if the 8700K sits just fine on a Z170 motherboard will it work with current Prema Bios or an update is required?

 

IF Coffee work with older chipset, you need a bios Update. But some say you will need newer Z370 for 8700K although same socket. Time will tell.

 

If you never plan on using the 8700k or the 7700k, for that matter, outside of this book unless they change the mobo you aren't going to clock over 5.0 GHz. Getting the 5.2 SL over the 5.1 won't make much of a difference. You may have that victory in your mind, but you'll never be able to take advantage of it.

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Yes, you have to use newer drivers for the brightness controls to work. They did not work before because NVIDIA buggered something that had to be fixed in their drivers. My GPU performance is better with the older drivers that are lacking brightness controls. Brightness controls are broken with some driver versions on my P870 as well. Funny thing is, in those cases it still works correctly with Windows 7 and is only broken for Windows 10 with my P870.

This is very unlikely, and if it would work I doubt it would run cool enough to be useful with the current heat sink and fan. I am doubtful that Intel will allow this upgrade for Z170 or Z270, but it would certainly be wonderful if they would.

 

I like it, unfortunately I did not have time to sit down and spend time on it yesterday after work to game and what not. Everything seems great however, they did everything I had asked or wanted of them while it was there, and my screen does not appear to have any back light bleed or any issues going on now. I have not given it a name. As far as upgrade wise I do not have any immediate plans other than replacing the 1 8 gig stick of memory I bought with a 16 gig stick, and eventually down the line I will probably move up to 32. I also plan on repasting at some point as well down the line to see if it can help at all. I am using it as my personal laptop for whatever and gaming on the go at friends houses or if I travel. I work for an MSP so I am also carrying it around with my on a daily basis for work and using it as my "work" laptop in case I have to go on site anywhere. Other than the memory and potentially adding cooling pads to the SSD or something inside, I do not think there is very much else I can do to it either everything is more than I could ask for in a laptop. I am only running at 4.4GHz right now and I plan on bumping that up to 4.5 but I don't plan on doing any crazy over clocking, maybe 4.7 like most other people at some point. My idle temps are still a little higher than I would like (about 45-50) but I was talking to @Mr. Fox and he was saying that's pretty normal and the bottom panel mod won't make as much of a difference during idle, and that under load is where it really matters and should make a difference. Ran one Firestrike test on normal fans and GPU got up to 85 and cpu got up to 72, but I will hopefully be spending some time on it tonight or over the next couple days/weekend to get some gaming in on it and a real world experience under load instead of just a benchmark. Only other thing is maybe replace the 1tb HDD with an SSD down the line when/if prices drop.

 

What were your metrics for the run? Your wattage pulled from the gpu, the physics score, graphics score, overall score?

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My score yesterday was 17481 with a graphics score of 22170 and a physics score of 13728, combined of 8033.

Ran another this morning at work, got 17117 as my score with a graphics score of 22176 and a physics score of 13159, combined of 7576. Looking in HWInfo the max wattage my GPU pulled during the run was 192. This time GPU only reached 81C and CPU reached 70, this was all on default normal fans, I know during a gaming session I would be running on max fans.

Ran one more with Max fans on, got 17514 this time, graphics 22181, physics 13723, combined 8096. Max power pulled was 195W this time. GPU hit 78C still and CPU was 65. I also do not have it propped up a little on anything, just sitting on a desk in my office which is sort of like our server room so it's not the coldest room in the building either.

I'm happy with my scores and I know it can be pushed farther for sure, I definitly want to look into OC'ing my CPU now more at least to 4.5 or 4.7 if it's running fairly cool on max fans, I'm just worried about the GPU during long gaming session but I know this is the hardest part to keep cool in the machine, and I guess if mine is running along the lines of "normal" and can't make it run cooler, then it's not like I'm doing something wrong that I can do to improve it.

I don't care too much for benching and trying to push and have the highest scores, but anytime I get a new machine and start running benches I always end up wanting to try and get it higher and higher, seeing myself 300 points away from that "4k gaming pc" score on 3dmarks website is now my goal, I figure if I OC my cpu a little bit more I can probably get that bump to push me over their highest "group".

 

Thank you. My gpu is running significantly hotter. It pulled about 220 watts, but my graphics score was lower due to throttling no doubt. That was with max fans. I need to open her up and repaste with Phobya to see if I can't get the temps under control. My overall score straight from HID was about 18300. Physics ran over 15000 and graphics was just below your run. I am running recent Nvidia drivers as well.

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Yes, getting my CPU up to 4.7 would definitely help and improve my score and I plan on looking into that now that I have Prema bios and everything and the bottom cover mod and CPU temps seem good during the bench so that's my next step I am going to look into. I should have the ability to go and do it through the bios now, correct? Rather than having the do the OC through throttlestop? Is it still worth having throttlestop installed and using it for attempting to potentially undervolt, or should I remove that now and just try to do everything in the bios?

Any reason yours would be pulling an extra 30-40 watts than mine under load? I thought they *shouldn't* go above 200? Will an extra .3 GHz boost my CPU score by almost 2k to reach yours? Seems like a big difference for a small OC in my mind but again, I don't know as much about the OCing and benching as other people here do.

 

I love it when my friends start talking about benching and overclocking. I cherish this addiction and hope to never be cured of it. I hope you guys get the bug really bad, too. It's glorious and it will make you hate BGA filth even more as the addiction takes control.

 

I'm running 4.8 GHz on my cpu. I have room for movement there. As far as the gpu is concerned it may be down to drivers or the version of firestrike you are running. Having it pull more watts isn't worth it if I can't sustain better temps. Pascal throttles at ridiculously low temps. You are already throttling to some extent. I think improving your temps more is going to help boost your performance better than getting your system to pull more watts. I've had a relatively similar graphics score pulling just above 160 watts. If you were benching with an air conditioner beneath your book, then I'd begin to focus on drawing more from the gpu.

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I noticed boost throttles at 54C, kinda crazy to be honest. The chip should let you go all the way max and throttle only when it reaches the max temp.


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The throttling can be avoided, but that requires a hardware programmer to flash the vbios.
I'm not certain, but I think *boost 2* (automatic overclocking) clocks start throttling at 42C, which can't be changed. Boost 1 clock throttling can be changed with the Pascal Bios Editor, from 54C to something far less draconian like 75C.

https://github.com/LaneLyng/MobilePascalTDPTweaker/releases

 

I thought this newer vbios that was flashed was supposed to fix the throttling issues, but maybe I was wrong about that. I am running the latest nvidia drivers from their website that I updated to yesterday for the brightness control. How can you tell or actually know when the machine is throttling, especially based off what I provided? Is there another app or monitoring program I should be running that will provide that information? I'm just benching this on my desk at work in our "Server" room with a lot of other machines running keeping it a little warm ambiently anyway. Flat on a desk, nothing propping it up with fans on maxed. I care about the laptop from a practical standpoint as I use it for work and take it places with me and use it as an actual laptop I'm not trying to get into anything too crazy like Mr Fox with the crazy cooling pads and air conditioners and stuff to keep the machine running. I want it to be able to give me as much power and run as cool and smoothly as possible in every scenario whether I am using it at home or at a friends house. I will definitely look into repasting the GPU and the CPU when I am in there at somepoint in the near future and go from there. I only have Artic 5 and as I've learned from this thread I'm quite a bit behind the times in terms of thermal paste so I need to stock up on some better stuff both for my laptop but my desktop as well as I want to start OCing that a bit more.

 

Your thermals are great for this machine. I wasn't implying otherwise. I was merely stating that drawing more power may just increase heat and throttling without improving performance. There's a trade off. Because Pascal throttles so low, bumping draw without improving temps probably won't net gains that you'll utilize under normal use.

Edit: The vBIOS included with the Prema upgrade is ripped from a mobo that was programmed with a higher tdp. @Prema is still working his magic with @Mr. Fox. We haven't heard of any updates and we aren't even sure if HID will offer the flash.

@Falkentyne, according to @Mr. Fox, Prema hasn't been able to resolve the gpu throttling issues with this mobo. I didn't check your link. Is that script specifically for this board? If so, has the script been verified to actual limit throttling. As far as I know, @Mr. Fox is the top of the chart for benching with the 16L. Of course he benches with air conditioning, so throttling from temps isn't an obstacle for him. For everyday applications... That would be terrific.

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Gotcha, yeah I'm not trying to increase my power usage or anything, was just kind of curious why yours was over what I thought was the limit, I'm definitely not looking to cause additional heat if I don't have to lol.