*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Hi,
It's not a script.
It's a vbios editor that @Coolane wrote.
There was a thread on it on the Sager/clevo section but it's a bit inactive right now.
I used it on my 1070 on my GT73VR.
But NVflash can't flash it. It requires a SPI programmer to flash.

 

Script is another way of saying code. Didn't he write custom code that he flashed onto his board? I know he burned up his system from running stress tests. I just haven't heard how his flash works with the 16L/1080 combo and if it works wonders for preventing thermal throttling.

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His card was damaged from having to bend it to mount a heatsink not designed for it. then that combined with drawing 230W from the MXM slot caused damage.

It works on laptop and desktop cards. As long as it can read the vbios, it will work. All you do is raise the throttling temperature if you want to stop boost 1 temp throttling.
No one knows how to stop the 42C temp throttling of boost 2, yet (+5C= -13 mhz core), but boost 1 throttling temp works.
Raising TDP a bit can help stop power throttling. I no longer get any power throttling on my 1070. 170W limit is plenty for a 1070N and makes it faster than a desktop card.

I haven't seen anyone mod the 1080 cards yet. Unlike 1070, 1080 isn't as castrated (if it uses an auxiliary power connector, the TDP is usually 200W stock, HUGE difference from 1070 base TDP of 115W). A small TDP bump to 230W might work, and change the TDP slider to adjustable, but the biggest change you can do for a 1080 card is raising that absurd temp limit from 54C for boost clock throttling.

 

Some 1080 Mobile graphics, not the Max-Qrippled trash, run already +230W

 

It seems my gpu will max around 220+ watts. I know I'm throttling. I don't know if @Prema did anything to remove the lower throttle limit. I haven't heard of anyone successfully eliminating 1080 throttling. I'd like to dump the lower throttling limits if anyone knows how. My primary task, though, is to get my temps down on my gpu. I've already seen improvements from the HID mods. I think paste and opening up my cooling pad (cutting direct holes above the fans) may be my best options currently.

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The Pascal Bios Editor will help limit 1080 throttling.
Just don't exceed recommended limits in the presets.
The preset goes from 215W (100% TDP) to 255W, unlocking the TDP slider in Afterburner, which should be enough range for you to test.

Raise the temp throttling point to 70-75C for the boost clocks.

Why haven't you checked out the program ? A lot of your questions would be answered just by running it..

 

Is that what you've linked to on github? I haven't heard of ways to limit throttling for the 1080. We do what we know.

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Bunch of us have pulled over 270W on our Clevo 1080's. Even 300W+ .
@Mr. Fox has even pulled 250W+ on his MSI 1080 IIRC.

 

I've seen this. My temps won't support it though. @Mr. Fox has the benefit of being an OC master, and the magician @Prema on his side. I'm beating my own scores, working on keeping my temps stable. I don't use air conditioning so my runs have to be safe at normal use conditions. I'm already at my thermal limit for my gpu. I need to get those in check first. I've been thinking about repasting and undervolting to achieve that. If I can remove lower throttle limits, that would be great as well!

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If you don't want to change the TDP limit and just raise the temp throttle limit, that's easy to do..
Maybe for a hot running card like a 1080, a higher temp limit like 80C will work.
I used 71C on my 1070, which it never reaches.

keep in mind that you can change the TDP anyway and just use an adjustable slider, by changing it to adjustable instead of fixed (but you need to set a range), so you can set the TDP you want, instead of being forced to use what Ngreedia tries to make you use. 215,500 mw is a good starting value for 100% TDP, with no risk.

The best thing to do is to repaste and vbios mod at the same time, since you get it all done in one go. And it doesn't take much longer to flash a modded Bios, than it does to repaste, so you kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

All you will need for a mod is:
Kryonaut paste

Pomona clip
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HHH65T4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Male to female jumper wires:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DC74A9Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

(if you're hooking the wires from the pomona clip to an SOIC8 adapter board, then female to female, but you should be able to just wire it directly to the 1.8v adapter, but I have not tested that yet.

1.8v adapter (essential, this goes into the flasher on the top row of pins. Plus the jumper wires into the front row of pins also).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072KYK2DR/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Flasher: (put the 1.8v adapter on the front row of pins closests to the lever).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DZC36GY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You may not need this, but usually the main clip plugs into an soic8 adapter board like shown here, (never use this cheap prebuilt clip assembly) but since you're building your own wires, you may not need the board.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015W4PKR6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Once pin 1 lines up with pin 1 on the Bios chip (pins go counterclickwise from 1 to 8), press detect on the flasher software, load the modded Vbios, press Auto, program, done.

 

Decided the 16L was a little too plain. So I decided to paint mine a little. I used graphite paint so it would pop, but not be too bright:

 

If the procedure is as straight forward as that seems, I can't imagine that a wizard the likes of @Prema would have overlooked it. @Mr. Fox, can you either confirm or deny whether this has already been applied to the vBIOS update supplied with the HID Prema BIOS?

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That looks very nice. Great job! Thanks for sharing it with us.

The vBIOS Prema provided is just a stock MSI 1080 vBIOS with much higher power limits than the stock 16L13 1080 allows. It is not a modded vBIOS, so it does not have adjustable TDP limits. That's why it can be flashed with NVFLASH. The signature is not broken from being modded. I think the idea was to provide something that the typical user could flash with NVFLASH and not have to invest in a SPI flash programmer. For most people that is too intimidating, and for all of us (even those that are not intimidated by it) it a real pain in the butt to have to partially dismantle a laptop to flash a vBIOS. Thank you NVIDIA!

By providing a software flashable vBIOS you can go back to the stock vBIOS or forward again to the EVOC vBIOS whenever you want to without taking the machine apart and using another computer to flash the vBIOS chip.

Honestly, I do not see much difference in GPU temps between the stock vBIOS, EVOC vBIOS, or Clevo vBIOS. Even though the EVOC vBIOS and Clevo vBIOS allows it to pull over 200W my temps are within 2°C to 3°C of what they were with the power limit capped to 150W with the stock vBIOS.

 

My temps went up after I began pulling 200 plus watts. Probably about 3 - 7 C.

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As @Mr. Fox said, Vbioses with a valid signature can be flashed with NVflash. Getting a HULK certificate signed by Nvidia is a royal gigantic PITA. But whenever you mod the stock video Bios, the certificate signature becomes invalid and Nvflash won't flash it. The vBios either has to be submitted for certification (which only resellers or partners can do), or it has to be force flashed with a HW programmer, avoiding Ngreedia's draconian security. The checksum still has to be corrected (not needed if you're using the Pascal Editor to make changes and nothing else (like hex editors)), or the card won't boot.
It makes a world of difference. Laptop cards are significantly slower than desktop versions (the 1080 less so) due to castrated TDP limits and slightly lower clockspeeds. Bump the TDP limits back up to desktop levels, boost the clocks up a bit, and you get the missing speed back.

If you're worried about changing the TDP, just make it adjustable and give it a range, starting with stock 200,000, to 250,000, and bump the throttling temp to 75C. Then the stock values will be 200W and 75C boost 1 throttling temp, instead of 54C, then you can increase the TDP and clocks with the slider whenever you feel like testing.

 

I'm beginning to understand. I'll probably be bugging you after I'm able to actually start this. Thank you.

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If you want to go back to the stock vBIOS, you can certainly do that. If it met your needs and you'd prefer to have cooler temps with slightly less performance it only takes a few minutes to flash it.

 

OK, here's this you can download from my Goggle drive. The zip file does not contain any Prema firmware mods and never will. Those always come only from Brother @Prema and they would require using an SPI flash hardware programmer.

The archive has the stock 1080 Tornado F5/EVOC 16L-G-1080 150W vBIOS, the better optimized vBIOS that Prema provided to HIDevolution for these little beasts (which is a stock MSI Titan 1080 vBIOS if I am not mistaken) and the stock Clevo 200W 1080 vBIOS, which I have on my 16L13 1080 right now. Clevo stock boost clocks are higher than the MSI Titan 1080 stock boost clocks, so you can expect a corresponding bump in temperatures as well. Don't be stupid and cook your GPU. Keep it cool or you will cook it and get worse performance from thermal throttling.

After unzipping the archive first, to the folder of your choice, you can use the batch files (double-click in Windows) to save a backup of your current vBIOS -- strongly recommended -- flash the EVOC version, the Clevo version or go back to stock. The batch files do all of the work for you. The warning about ID mismatch and having to answer Y (yes) to continue is normal and expected.

NVFLASH for Pascal 1080 Mobile - Signed Stock Firmware Only

 

Guys, this mobo runs on MXM slot power only, which was designed for 150W...
We have tested it thoroughly with the enhanced cooling of the modded back-cover and decided to bundle the higher TDP vBIOS with the premamod.
The system shut's down as it is once you get into the 5.1-5.2Ghz CPU region with Oced GPU and the supplied firmware.

We have pulled over 250W without overclock > at stock clocks with a test mod with removed throttle values and decided it would be a "guaranteed-RMA-in-the-making" to provide anything like this to the end-user.
The intact temp, voltage etc throttle values are essential to keep this system alive!
Also keep in mind that it would be a whole lotta 100W blown out into the wind for zero benefit...

 

Agreed. Using the Pascal Tweaker to remove power limits and stop throttling is dangerous and will void your warranty on the GPU. Brother @Coolane already killed his MSI 1070 using his tool to override the limits. Check with HIDevolution before putting the Clevo vBIOS on your GPU. If you bought your machine from Eurocom and it does not have a modded bottom cover, check with Eurocom before using the vBIOS that HIDevolution is using. That might void your warranty with Eurocom. Using the Clevo vBIOS will not pull more watts, but it will boost higher and run hotter. They may not be willing to warranty the GPU with the Clevo vBIOS on it. You can always go back to stock vBIOS if the enhanced vBIOS included in the EVOC firmware package makes your 1080 run hotter than you want it to. People that do not have a bottom cover mod should definitely stick to the stock vBIOS.

 

Thank you and @Prema for explaining why the tweaks didn't come from HID. I wasn't complaining about my current configuration. I love it. I'm keeping the vBIOS exactly the way it is. I know that low temp throttling is an issue for the 1080. I didn't know that throttling actually had a benefit. Intuitive thought would lead me to believe as long as the temps stayed beneath 90 C or so, I wouldn't have to worry about burning up the gpu or board. My earlier solution still stands then - repaste and maybe undervolt the gpu, which I can do with Nvidia inspector, right?

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Thank you brother @Prema !
I was not aware that that 1080 had a 150W limit due to no auxiliary power connector, unlike the MSI and Clevo installed cards
@Prema I may not have a prema partner system (MSI GT73VR is filled with cancer firmware to the extreme >_>), but you're awesome. Remember that, and always remember there are many, many of us that appreciate your work, even if we can't benefit from your custom EC firmwares.

@leftsenseless
You can still mod the vbios safely to remove the throttling temp, up to a point where it won't affect you. Since you decided not to change the TDP, maybe 80C will be ok?

 

I have the vBIOS that @Prema is referring to. It is his position that the throttling limits are best left where they are unless I'm misunderstanding... I'm getting great results and I'm more concerned with stability and longevity than beating the best of the best. I like to OC and tinker, but within safe limits.

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I think @Prema said that POWER throttling (TDP) is best left where it is, while you can change temp throttling point if you wish (temp throttling is pascal laziness, affects desktop cards also)

 

The higher the temps get the more watts are pulled by the card under identical clocks.
So when we let the card heat up to 87c under stock clocks with disabled throttle, it pulled 250W from the MXM slot, without any OC. Pascal ain't MAXwell...

 

According to this, it seems like it is recommended to leave all values as is.

I appreciate your help nonetheless.

 

You can still overclock the snot out of it. The important thing is keeping it cool. Country fried steak tastes pretty great. Country fried silicon, not so much. Both are bad for you. One will choke your arteries and the other will choke your wallet.

 

Overclock, just leave the thermal throttling values alone? There's so much back and forth it's hard to know what is recommended...

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Yes. Exactly. Don't tweak it and remove the protections. Keep it cool and overclock it and your GPU will be your friend. If I keep my 1080 cards cool they pull anywhere from 20 to 50W less at a given clock speed and thermal throttling isn't a vexing issue. Elevated temperatures requires higher voltage as well as more watts. The voltage thing also applies to CPUs.

It is one thing to run crazy overclocked benchmarks (a violent but short burst from a freshly opened can of whoop-ass) using AC cooling with the GPUs starting out at 18°C. It is something totally different trying to play games for hours on end with the GPU running at the same clock speed and boiling in its own juices at ~90°C. The latter usually doesn't work very well. It is terribly hard on the GPU and it really doesn't do anything to improve the gaming experience. In most cases it makes no difference if the GPU core is clocked at 1700MHz or 2000MHz. Maybe a few FPS, but if you're already running between 75 and 150 FPS, it just doesn't matter.

 

I try to keep my temps below 80 C under normal use. I have Battlefield One running at 60 fps just to keep my temps down. They are way down - about 65 C max and much lower average temps. That game offers 60 jumping to 120 fps. Unless I run Riva, I just stick to amazing temps and decent frames.

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Just collected my new little beast, that's my weekend sorted! Thanks @ Donald@HIDevolution and co!

Also there is a 50gb SSD still in here with Windows 10 and all your software for configuration, benchmarking, etc (with licence keys)...

 

is that true ?
can i change core i CPU to xeon CPU ?

 

Can someone give me a hand, I tried to flash my bios since eurocom provided me with an updated bios to fix the blacklighy problem. I made a bootable usb drive using rufus and copied the bios file in it, but I can't seem to be able to boot from the usb. I tried f11 and boot priorities and it always boot to my hard drive. When I tried to diable uefi for the hard drive and boot with just the drive, it just boot back to the bios screen.

 

Until someone re-answers this for you, you can try reading the posts already made for "usb boot":

http://forum.notebookreview.com/search/18231951/?q=usb+boot&t=post&o=relevance&c[thread]=797128

 

I think that should be possible

this is the socket for i7-6700: FCLGA1151
http://ark.intel.com/products/88196/Intel-Core-i7-6700-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_00-GHz

this is the socket for a xeon e3 1280 v5: FCLGA1151
https://ark.intel.com/products/88171/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1280-v5-8M-Cache-3_70-GHz

do you need a xeon for your applications?

 

@Mr. Fox please send me a PM. I have a simple idea for a next-generation bottom cover mod. It won't improve cooling for over your EVOC Ventalation mod. But might be helpful for popular BGA gaming laptops.

 

Hahaha. I'm sure he'll help you, because he's great. You do realize that @Mr. Fox doesn't want to contribute to the proliferation of any BGA series notebook, right?

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PM sent

Well, sure... I try to be nice to everyone. Life is too short to waste it being mean to other people. Plus, it's better to reserve those calories for the ridicule of marketing lies about castrated BGA filth, like we see over here.

 

Yes, you can do that. Not sure if it needs a different BIOS or not. But, I do not believe you will gain anything. If I am not mistaken, the Xeon chips that fit this socket/chipset are not particularly impressive, and I do not believe they are unlocked CPUs.

If you got this from @Eurocom Support they should have provided instructions for flashing. My understanding is that they would not be distributing the files to end users for flashing. If you got it somewhere else, please be very careful and think twice about flashing it. Unless something changed that I am not aware, you should not be in possession of a Eurocom firmware mod, same as you should not be in possession of a @Prema mod for the HIDevolution EVOC firmware.

That said, if you have a properly formatted DOS-bootable USB stick, you will first have to boot to a UEFI shell and use the appropriate file to flip the switch on the Intel ME lock, then change to Legacy BIOS environment and boot from DOS. If the BIOS is set to boot in UEFI mode, then DOS won't boot even if you change the HDD boot mode from UEFI to Legacy.

If you have the stock MSI BIOS right now, the normal Eurocom BIOS update process will not work. You have to hex edit in a UEFI shell and go through multiple stages to remove the write-protection before it will be flashable, same as if you were using a Svet BIOS mod.

 

Isn't that just disabling "Bios Lock"?
If you have access to that in your Bios and turn it off, you should be able to update it then, including flashing in windows with FPTW64

 

Nope, it's different. FPTW64 and FPT DOS won't work. Already been through a ton of gyrations with Brother @Prema on this MSI cancer firmware and it's a huge mess. There are multiple draconian lock-outs to try to interfere with firmware mods. Don't know if that is all MSI laptops or just the 16L13, but they went overboard trying to block people from exercising their rightful hardware ownership rights.

 

I checked with Kevin at Eurocom and you were given a stock Tornado F5 BIOS (not an unlocked mod) and you can disregard the information above about mods and special flashing technique. Use the information @hmscott posted (below) to create a DOS bootable USB thumb drive and then follow the instructions from @Eurocom Support and you should be golden. You have to change the BIOS from UEFI to Legacy and no Secure Boot to load DOS. You can use Rufus for this... https://rufus.akeo.ie/ (choose the option in the dropdown menu for FreeDOS)

Write down or snap photos of your current BIOS settings so you can put everything back to how it was before you started after flashing the BIOS.

 

I meant to ask and forgot. Were there any special steps you followed for surface prep? Did you apply an etching primer before the color coat? It looks really nice. I'm kind of surprised that nobody (except me) said anything. Maybe a lot of people missed it.

I've been toying with the idea of painting my lid like I did El Cazador or my amazing Corvette Yellow Pearl Alienware M18xR2. I just haven't decided what I want to do yet.

 

I will probably do this with my next laptop.


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I used an automotive grade spray paint. Most important part is that surface is very clean. I used I.V. prep wipes, they are alcohol pads mixed with some sort of adhesion primer (I have a ton for my Insulin pump). You can buy a box of 50 for like $10 on ebay.

3 coats of paint and it seems to be really on there

 

I took apart the little beast this evening to program the vBIOS with a @Prema mod and I am very pleased with how the foam barriers are working out. I think that I will be doing this always going forward. I will do the same exact thing on a desktop CPU next time I build one. I feel confident that I can toss this bad boy around like a rag doll and not burn any calories worrying about whether or not liquid metal might be leaking out anywhere. There is no place for it to go, LOL. With the Kapton tape sealing off the space between the IHS and CPU retention bracket, that exposure is eliminated. The Kapton tape there and on the GPU also made a nice surface to lay a few drops of super glue to keep the foam rubber from moving.

@jaybee83 has been avoiding liquid metal for a long time because he packs his beast around and had it leak out once before. Maybe he would be interested in doing the same.

 

I got this idea from the airline pilot who was concerned with the conductive balls of doom moving around at 30,000 feet on an airplane. He had the avatar of that dark skinned guy in the pilot uniform (I don't think it was @DukeCLR ). I remember he got a tube of white foam, which I think was thicker than the soft spongy stuff we're using.

Glad to see the foam dam is working well. Nothing's happened to my laptop while being jostled around in my backpack on my bicycle or on the bus, either. I think foam dams should be mandatory for anyone doing LM repasting. Man I could probably get RICH right now if I had a way to cut them out myself and sell them for $10 for a set of 2..you KNOW people will buy them instead of making them themselves...people will buy ANYTHING if you market it, just like they will buy Max Q BGAbooks....I'm sure someone else will beat me to it though...

 

It's actually kind of funny, I had been thinking about doing this for a few weeks when I saw your post asking about it and mentioned I was going to try it. I could not remember where I had put that sheet of foam, and when you asked about it I decided I was going to stop and figure out where I put it. I never saw the post by the airline guy, or if I did I do not remember it. I wonder if that is who posted on my YouTube video that he suggested it and people criticized it. That makes me feel bad for him. It just goes to show you the old saying it true... great minds think alike.

 

when I use LM on the outside, I always place tape precautions everywhere and triple make sure to use as little LM as possible while giving it enough time to cure and slightly dry before placing it back together and such to avoid the spills, but I always thought some sort of easy to manipulate foam that could compress would be best.

Whats this that you are using exactly ?

 

just noticing it now, but is your battery plugged in while your working on the laptop ?
It looks like it. Disaster waiting to happen, this is the most common cause of motherboard failures, and one of the largest most common mistakes people make, being too good at what they do and are potentially way to confident they start to make small easy to avoid mistakes.
Just saying be careful, you could cause a static short from the ground anywhere on the laptop since it has a load from the battery connected.

yeah I'm sure that looks connected.... I usually completely remove the battery just so I am 100%.
Good practice, I recommend it.



also looks like your on a dish tower or something, very bad for static and humidity, another disaster waiting to happen.

Maybe this is not your picture of your laptop, but whomever it belongs too maybe used too much LM as well, I think i've written tons of the subject how it causes way too many failures from being applied too liberally and makes less of a positive impact temp wise then if using less.

Mr Fox, whats going on man , lol. You been in the sun too long this week ! (j/k)

No but seriously, I had to say something because its a good time to mention safety, many times people come back to me for RMA's having admitted to making the exact mistakes I'm pointing out in this picture you posted. I mean correct me if I am wrong, I'm not trying to be overly critical, or be mean or anything negative or even suggest you do not know what you are doing, maybe just overly casual and risky this time around.

Also the extra copper on the pipes helps build up heat, but if there are no fins there is sort of changes the balance in the equation of equilibrium where the heat is stored and moving too, and in the higher end, might increase temps if the end with the fan and fins do not keep up making up for the extra soak in the middle. It's sort of like changing the center of gravity on a well tuned sports car, it might handle differently, better in some places and worse in others. I do not personally think you went all far out and it would be an issue, but if you go further nuts with the extra copper, if actually doesn't help, and might even impede cooling. Is this the reason why you removed the retention clips from the screws for the CPU heatsink ?
Did it allow making closer contact (i.e like maybe this is a 7700K and it's 1mm more narrow to make contact as opposed to 6700K which does not need shimming etc.. (just asking , curious/clarification. Never thought of it myself, might be useful if so.)