*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Hi, after cloning it is not showing the full capacity of the drive. I've done a Google search and it suggests to extend the volume in Disk Management which I followed step by step but I get warning that I don't have enough disk space and the primary partition goes golden. Not sure what I'm doing wrong...

 

sorry if it is a noob question but do you think that i should buy one with the gtx 1080 or oc the gtx 1070 is more reasonable ?

 

and should i way for the f7 to come out ? will the price drop by then or it will not be produced anymore ? will the 6700k run with the gtx 1080 or just the 7700k model ?

 

All drives "lie" about their actual size vs advertised size. If you see the partition is using all the available blocks, then it's using all of the available drive as provisioned by the SSD maker.

There is often a 30% hold back of space configured on SSD's for speed reasons - optimizing over time - called Over Provisioning or OP.

You can check to see if the SSD came with OP configured, stealing space from your drive, and then you can remove that with the same manufacturers SSD tools, I do, and I run fine using the entire space.

I think Windows 10 automatically Trims SSD's, so they should stay optimized without OP.

If you have a Samsung SSD you can use Samsung Magician to set OP, update firmware, and I also disable RAPID mode (memory caching):

Samsung Magician
http://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/product/consumer/magician/

Changing OP will ruin your partition / data, so backup first before you remove OP if it exists, then re-clone to the larger drive partition.

 

Ha, don't let TilleroftheEarth (think that's his username) hear you say not to OP SSD drives! ;-)

 

Most SSDs have some degree of over-provisioning built in. It's not a bad idea to allocate a bit more. However, the 30% that certain a certain forum member who I shall not name, is far more than what most users will need. I stick to around 10-15%, depending on the model and capacity.

 

Well, I did listen to the guy, and I OP'd mine 30%, but I don't need all the space so it doesn't matter - but I would reduce that figure if I needed the space, and if I then noticed performance tanking I would consider removing some stuff or getting bigger drives.

 

Right, it's the additional space that for example Samsung lets you adjust or not use at all that I am talking about. Kingston for example has a factory configured OP that the user can't touch:

Understanding Over-provisioning (OP)
https://www.kingston.com/us/ssd/overprovisioning

"After an SSD is assembled, the SSD manufacturer can reserve an additional percentage of the total drive capacity for Over-Provisioning (OP) during firmware programming. Over-provisioning improves performance and often increases the endurance of the SSD, helping the drive last longer due to the SSD Controller having more Flash NAND storage available to alleviate NAND Flash wear over its useful life."
...
"This OP capacity is non-user accessible and invisible to the host operating system. It is strictly reserved for the SSD controller’s use."

 

You should be able to add an extra drive and have it setup for RAID without losing data through the intel drive tool .
alternatively you can also use software like the samsung migration for instance if it was a samsung drive, to migrate your data to a larger drive too.

 

Well the 1080 is faster, by like 30% about. If you have a 120Hz panel maybe thats worth it, for the extra FPS.

Whereas 1070 on a 1080P 60Hz display is kind of overkill in many situations, or you could run everything on ultra or max settings graphically. I know the witcher 3 for instance would run fine with a 1070 on max with all options and you should be 40-60FPS or more which is very playable.

 

I have 1070 + 120hz, and it is very strong machine... of course I can image how much fast the 1080 is, however price / FPS wise, 1070 could be also a good option. A couple of settings need to be put lower, but for 1080p it is still very good... even my 1060gtx OC'd was very good for current games... of course if sbody can afford go for 1080gtx no doubt

 

Finally sorted it, thanks for everyones input.

What would you guys do with the smaller SSD?

 

sell it. Use the money for larger drive, sure is someone out there who wants it.

 

Is it an M.2 or 2.5"? There are nice slim external cases to turn them into USB drives, I have used them myself to make multi-boot drives for servicing (updating) servers, could be useful as an offsite backup for important data, and as a boot drive with restore images you have backed up with Macrium Reflect.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_14?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=m.2+sata+external+ssd+enclosure&sprefix=m.2+sata+exter,aps,225&crid=28820BSNAAVNG&rh=i:aps,k:m.2+sata+external+ssd+enclosure

 

Would anyone want an used M.2 Micron M600 256gb?

And I've noticed that Eurocom actually put a thermal pad for the SSD, wasn't expecting that. I thought it was stuck as it wasn't easy to remove until I noticed it was stuck to a pad.

 

Silverstone makes a fantastic aluminum, thumb-drive style enclosure for m.2 sata drives called the MS09. It's become my favorite mobile imaging tool and video editing accessory with a 1tb SSD inside.

 

neat. Yeah I have an older one from them for a mSata and never failed me, and I always end up needing it here and there. Would imagine an M.2 one would be useful too, but does it only work with Sata m.2 SSD's or like NVMe m.2 SSD's ?

 

Yes, it's SATA only, but it does work at full SATA speeds. I have heard rumors of an NVMe based equivalent, but it would require a thunderbolt port instead of USB.

 

yeah guess the interconnectology is different for NVMe, needs pcie connection differently than sata connection - like more directly.

 

Hey guys, I laid down last night around 9:30-10 pm and ended up falling asleep and left my laptop on, fans were set to max as I had been playing a game before and was initially intending on coming back to my computer. Just woke up early a couple hours ago and noticed my PC was off which I found to be odd because I have it set to never go to sleep. I turned it on and checked event viewer and found something about system32/RuntimeBroker.exe initiating a shutdown? Has anyone ever heard of something like this before?

I also noticed when I turned my computer on I had a ton of errors about WHEA-Logger, probably about 20-30 from turning my machine on this morning, then went back through previous days and I have hundreds of entries related to this throughout my event viewer

"
A corrected hardware error has occurred.

Component: PCI Express Root Port
Error Source: Advanced Error Reporting (PCI Express)

Bus evice:Function: 0x0:0x1D:0x0
Vendor ID evice ID: 0x8086:0xA118
Class Code: 0x30400

The details view of this entry contains further information."

I can't really find much online related to this or what this Device ID is in reference to, has anyone else seen this before?

 

Will there be a BIOS update for these machines to patch the Spectre vulnerability?

 

This is very true. My 2014 blade practically ran those fans full on for 3 years with zero issue. I've already went through 1 fan on my Evoc/F5 within 5 months, and the replacement is louder and grindy sounding. The fans on this are pure garbage, and I am not one to use "cancer" etc.. hyperbole with irrational extremist abandon, but these fans are trash. MSI should spec a new supplier and dump these guys. I feel like I need to buy like 5 or 6 spares so I can use this thing for another couple-few years.

Wondering that myself. Microsoft's security bulletin stated there also needed to be firmware microcode patches to go along with their Windows update. Don't know if that statement was for any specific units/cpus or if it was across the board.

 

Just did not want this to get lost as the last post on the last page, curious if anyone has ever seen anything like this before or has any idea what could be causing it and if they think it could be a hardware problem or just some sort of software issue somewhere? Mainly concerned about my event viewer error code about the PCI port, but the RuntimeBroker thing initiating a shutdown in the middle of the night makes me a little uncomfortable as well. Planning on reinstalling windows again with a brand new fresh copy but it will be a little while before I can actually get around to that and do what I need to do. Also had a error in my event viewer about a controller issue with my HDD, hoping it's not actually failing already but at the end of the day that is the least of my concerns.

I see this brought up a lot, especially in the past month or so and being forced to use my laptop as my primary computer for the foreseeable future has me a bit worried about my fans. Did you go directly through MSI to get replacement fans for the computer? Are they/were they covered under warranty or did you have to purchase them? I have seen some posts about people sourcing other fans to use in their laptops. Was there ever word if those fans were better in any way or is there no real difference?

 

I opened a support ticket with HiDevolution and they had MSI ship me a fan. I would imagine since I bought a two year warranty that isn't the first and only time I'll be doing that. It took a super long time to eventually get the fan, so I would say if you don't want to be without your laptop for a month I'd preemptively buy one spare and then use RMA to replace the spare. Sucks.

 

I'm going to try this CPU microcode patcher tonight. If my performance doesn't take too much of a hit, it'll at least serve as a stopgap until we can receive a proper BIOS update. I'm guessing this would have to come from Eurocom or @Prema since the 16L13 isn't a standard MSI product.

Do you have the latest Samsung NVMe driver installed? How are the drive's temperatures when under load? Perhaps there was a thermal issue that caused the system to shut down.

The same fans were used in the MSI GT73VR, and when I had that notebook, I was able to convince MSI tech support to send me a replacement free of charge. The bearings on the GPU fan were starting to go, but it was still functional. I was glad I called MSI when I did because the part took several weeks to arrive. Had I waited for the fan to completely die, I would have been SOL. They originally wanted me to ship the computer back to them for repair (at my expense), and I told them that was ludicrous because replacing the fan is literally a 10 minute job, start to scratch.

As the 16L13 is not an "official" MSI product, you wouldn't go through them for a replacement, rather you should contact HIDevolution or Eurocom. I chose to be proactive again and bought a pair of replacements from fleBay. The seller accepted an offer of $30 each for two, which is expensive, but who knows how long I would have to wait for a complimentary replacement from HID if the fan(s) completely died.

 

The laptop was just idling when I went to bed at 9:30-10 with no games or anything open and the shutdown happened shortly after midnight, I doubt it was a thermal issue and wouldn't it give some sort of indication it was due to thermals if that's what it was? Plus the fans were set to max even though it had just been idling.

I will have to check on the temps under load when I get home today and am using my laptop and doing some gaming and stuff on it. I have my laptop under load right now at work and in HWinfo it is reporting Drive 1 Temperature around 50C and Drive 2 temperature around 64C which I am assuming is the NVME drive. I don't know what the limits should be for these, but it doesn't exactly seem to be running hot.

 

There's a chance that if you have the modded bottom cover the laptop isn't dragging as much air across the drives or moving as much air NEAR them as it was before since placing holes up that far right below the fans moves the intake of air from the center to the edges. It doesn't look like it should matter much since the drives are far away from either of them, but it could mean that hot air more easily builds up in those areas than without a modded cover over time since the intake profile has been changed where air isn't flowing across the mobo like it used to.

I have SATA drives which tend to run a little cooler, so I can't be of much help, but if you have both panels you could try them out separately under identical conditions and monitor the drive temps and see if there's any difference. Might not make any difference either way, but worth asking.

 

That's something to do with your CPU, the giveaway is the device 8086.
Could have been some windows update trying to do something, who knows. Maybe an OC issue ?

 

If you have an NVMe or M.2 drive get one of these maybe :


If you need help finding it or want one too, I can help, I keep a small supply for customers buying laptops with hot NVMe's in the F5 for instance now.

This is a cooling fit that fits around the drive, theres a black plate for underneath and a colored plate heatsink for on top. there are two clips that seal it on, and on each side inbetween the heatsinkplates and drive, is thermal pads.
Works very well.

 

What does the before/after temperature difference look like on NVMe?

 

I tested it, and like a fool never took screenshots or shared the info and then just shipped what I had on it's way.
I will have to test again, and report what performance difference it gave. I just have no NVMe opened ATM.
Want to test one for me if I send it to you ? They are relatively cheap, and if I deconstruct the box, I can ship this in a padded envelop for a few bucks only.

 

Would that heatsink work on two drives in the F5?

 

Not necessarily true.
8086 is simply the vendor code for INTEL. Not for Intel CPU.
WHEA correctable error can be more than CPU related.
A CPU cache error (which is the usual cause of this error) will show directly :CPU Cache.
His error seems to be showing some error with the PCI express lanes, PEG port, or system agent, which could be CPU or mainboard issue or even a voltage regulation issue.

One way to eliminate the CPU out of the issue is to run prime95 (DISABLE AVX and FMA3, by reading UNDOC.txt and adding the lines with =0 to local.txt) and use a custom fixed size FFT of 1344K and letting it loop for 15 minutes. If no errors, the CPU should be fine

 

good tip, that was just my best guess. It's where I would start anyways. Sometimes an update causes issues and it can't install, or it takes control of certain things which cause issues.

 

You mean side by side if theres room ?

Well lets find out... let me get this into the chassis for comparison.
brb

 

looks like it will fit fine if you ask me.

 

Nice.

I'll think about grabbing one for my main media/game storage drive. I just remembered that when my machine was at HID for the CPU overheating, they added one of those sticky thermal pads under the drive I had ordered with it, so having the heatsink would be a bit redundant, especially since it's SATA, not NVMe.

 

Yeah thse heatsinks are a better solution I am 100% sure. For starters they do not bleed the temps into the motherboard, as an example.

 

I will do some testing as recommended with my CPU and will also be reinstalling windows soon, I don't know if anything in the OS could be causing the issue. I will consider the heatsink for my NVME drive but I really don't think that's the issue I had my laptop under load pretty much all day today and the highest one of my drives got was 67C and the other was 49C, this is with it propped up as I use it at home. I can't see it getting any warmer when it was idling and not even under any sort of load last night.

I will test the CPU as suggested above and see what happens. The issue seems to come and go. I had the computer on and running all day since I came in at work and I have 3 warnings in event viewer from 830 this morning when I turned it on when I got to work and not a single error or message after that all day, where as I have about 10+ from 4:00AM when I woke up this morning, realized my computer was off and turned it back on again. I wonder how far going back this has been in there but I never had any issues with anything so I was never checking event viewer on a regular basis. I have noticed recently in using my laptop as a primary computer that CS:GO does not seem to run as well as I feel it should. On my old desktop listed in my sig, I was getting 300+ fps at all times with dips down to maybe 220-250 on more demanding maps or when a lot of stuff was going on. On my laptop, which in theory should be more powerful, I am only getting between 120-200 fps or so and I don't really feel it should be that low on a machine with these specs so I wonder if something weird is going on with my CPU or the OC. Would have thought a 7700k at 4.7 would handle CS like nothing compared to my 5820k at 4.3.

 

Probably through some combination of your specific CPU, the laptop's thermal design, and MSI's cancerous firmware, I'm willing to bet your overclock is too high.

At 4.7 GHz, I thought my system was stable, but occasionally when it was sitting at idle, it would reboot for no reason: no BSOD or anything. The error logs were not helpful, and WhoCrashed wouldn't turn up anything. The system would also randomly crash when I was playing a game that could easily run on my 2011 MacBook Pro. After several days of troubleshooting, tweaking BIOS settings, and testing, I finally got it stable at 4.5 GHz. Anything more would cause either failure during stress testing or thermal throttling that would dial back the frequency to as low as 4.0 GHz. Since then, there hasn't been a single random reboot or game crash that wasn't otherwise caused by faulty drivers.

 

4.7Ghz is kind of high, you might get better performance and no issues at 4.5Ghz with an undervolt.

 

I've run 4.8-4.9 for months with zero issues. Get the settings right, voltages right, and make sure your thermals are in check and you shouldn't have any issues. I'm not doing anything tremendously special and I have the 1080 GTX heat factory churning away in my beast.

 

Sent you a Pm asking about that.

 

yup, about power state not on windows, on Mac OS (hackintosh) GTX 1080 only run at 1139Hz core clock. may be it need manual inject power state for optimize performance

 

I had those thermal pads under my NVMe drives too for a while but eventually removed them in favor of a heatsink similar to what woodzstack shows. The PCH is on the opposite side of the motherboard from the NVMe drives, so when performing a lot of writes, it would transfer a ton of heat to my board and warm the PCH, which is already starved for airflow. Fans would not increase speed enough to respond to the warm PCH temps (or the fans were broken because #MSIFanGate #TheseFansSuck.)

I recorded PCH temperatures of over 100c and it would force these seemingly random shutdowns. I eventually removed the thermal pads under the drives, added heatsinks to both my 960 Pro SSDs and added a heatsink to the PCH on the opposite side of the board. You'll want to manually adjust fan speed too because the auto setting is too stupid to know when your PCH is getting killed. These PCH related thermal shutdowns also were happening to me when using an external Thunderbolt dock. I only figured all this out after discovering that using the TB3 dock AND performing a bunch of writes on the SSDs was an quick way to guarantee a thermal shutdown within 5 minutes every time. No BSOD, CPU only hitting 60c and no any other logs.

tl;dr: If you are having seemingly random shutdowns, take a look at your PCH temps.

 

You have a silicon lottery CPU. We do not.

It was an ordeal just trying to get my machine completely stable. I don't care to waste my time digging through BIOS minutiae and spending hours running benchmarks for a marginal performance increase in synthetic benchmarks. Obviously there are people who like that sort of stuff, but I got out of that game years ago.

 

edit: nvm didn't see the SL CPU

 

The microcode update is reportedly causing problems even on Skylake and Kaby Lake. Might want to wait a little longer.

 

It's true that I have an SL chip, but many people don't who have been fine at running their chips to 4.7, 4.8, or even 4.9. I've been reading these forums for quite some time. I can say that I've hardly seen anyone with a delidded 7700k struggle to maintain them at reasonable temperatures. You may have a bad chip or maybe something is off with your settings, but for most that I've seen having heat increase from that small bump up in speed has been easily offset by getting the correct voltages dialed in as well as adjusting some other settings. My temps aren't considerably better at lower frequencies especially with factory voltages.

 

I did apply it, and at first there was some unusual behavior. However, tweaking a registry setting to get the update to start up sooner seems to have fixed it. See the post I made in the thread you quoted for more details. There has been a slight performance hit, but it's been less than 5 percent across the board and closer to 0.5-2 percent in the overwhelming majority of cases.

That may be so, but are those machines, including yours, absolutely 100 percent stable? Like Prime95 running small FFTs or full AIDA64 (CPU, RAM, GPU) for hours with no crashes or thermal throttling? I know there's at least one person here who has his clocked high, and it isn't stable in that scenario. And what are your temperatures? Before you say, "well, those stress tests place an unrealistic workload on the computer so I don't care about it," yes, that is a valid line of reasoning. I'm not in that camp, however, and with where my system is now, I have absolute peace of mind.

I, and I'm sure others here, would like to see exactly what your BIOS settings are. Take some pictures and upload them to Imgur. Every computer is different, but maybe what you have could serve as a baseline for others who are more interested in pushing theirs to the edge.