*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Wait are you seeing those temps with a custom water loop installed?

 

Eh? I don't have the kit yet, waiting for all the stuff to arrive from different vendors so I can build the liquid/water cooling system.

Also waiting for my Binned 8700K to arrive. This is a Birthday present to my self

 

use the Silent Option program
by default in the asus fans little speed but they can twist to 5100rpm.

 

Let us know broo @Huniken

 

Yeah but if I go advanced, the CPU fan goes crazy high which doesn't make sense so I just leave it at auto.

 

SL 5.2Ghz 8700K is in the House. Now this I will have to worry about the heat issues. For now I need to start to prep the bios flashing process.

Thanks for the Quick shipping @Ted@HIDevolution

 

So it seems I have finally soft-bricked my F5 :-/
While trying to localize the fault of my software crashes (Kingdom Come Deliverance would randomly crash, 3D Mark's TimeSpy would crash in the CPU mode), I set the memory settings to manual and relaxed some of the latencies.
The laptop turned off and on - and showed strange settings in Windows: basically the memory timings were back to auto and my static voltage was gone.
Well, silly me decided to give it another go, set the memory timings to manual, relax tCL only, and (for whatever reason) I had a look at the voltage setting and changed it from Adaptive to Static, but let the Override sit at 0.
(While 0 is of course fine in adaptive mode, this seems to cause some problems in static mode...)

Surprise: now I have got a device that won't post.
I have tried resetting the BIOS via holding the power button for about a minute (saw that in some YouTube tutorials) - no success.
I have tried resetting the BIOS via pressing the reset switch (bottom cover has got a hole for that) for half a minute - no success.

I would therefore really like to ask:
- Does anybody have a great idea what might reset the BIOS without taking the laptop apart?
- Seeing that I might need to take it apart, do you have any suggestion where I might be able to get the CMOS battery extension cord? (I am currently unable to find a supplier / listing, the faster delivery to Germany could be the better )

Thank you very much in advance.

 

I'm not sure but I think you can try to remove the processor and start the power. Then put the processor back and restart the power supply ....
THIS IS MY IDEA I'M NOT SURE IT WILL HELP HER ALL THIS ON YOUR STAH AND RISK

 

I think you will have to take apart the the laptop and take out the cmos battery, it doesnt take that long to disassemble the thing, at least it doesn't have a million screws like my p870dm-g!

Somehow, if removing the cmos battery doesn't work you may need to re-flash the bios chip using a usb programmer. If you already have one handy you can directly flash the chip without disassembling the laptop using a 8 pin adapter ofc.

 

Did you manage to flash the BIOS on the F5 without destroying the BIOS chip?

Or you were stitching it through USB flash ?

 

Yeah I flashed it fine through the usb skypro programmer, I did that to enable coffee lake support which I made a forum about. I didn't destroy the bios chip, the reason that happens is if the 8 pin clip is put on the wrong way. You need to align the red wire on the clip to the embedded dot on the bios chip.

you can check my forum here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...de-guide-msi-16l13-eurocom-tornado-f5.821651/

 

If I dig through the laptop to remove the CPU (i.e. remove GPU's heatsink and CPU's heatsink first), then I might as well dig in all the way and reset the BIOS via disconnecting the CMOS battery ;-)
After all: should it not suffice to remove the CPU, I will have done a complete repaste for nothing and will have to dig through the machine again.

I am still hopeful that I might find a solution that solves this problem for me, without disassembling the laptop.
However, I do also hope that this disassemly would be the worst-case scenario - reflashing a BIOS is not something that I am looking forward to.
(OK, after giving it a second thought: will reflashing the BIOS reset the data that is being reset when disconnecting the battery?)

 

It will completely reset the data within the bios. You will need to find the original bios as I do not have it anymore. Once you flash that everything will be reset to default.

If you flash the bios that is in the forum I linked everything will be displayed mandarin and I'm pretty sure you do not want that lol

 

NO.
I tried to delete the memory it does not help either
(on alienaevars, I used to shred when I turned on the laptop and stuffed the memory bar and it was reset as it would be here I do not know if there is a risk of breaking it)

 

If you have a usb programmer you know that you can click the 'erase' button, that will completely wipe the chip. Once you reflash the new bios you will 100% be able to boot your laptop as all the old bios content has been wiped.

@qwerty8224 I have had this issue on my p870dm-g with a failed ram overclock on the xmp profile, relfashing the chip solved all issues.

 

I use TL866A and I always have interference
(can the POMONA clip help?)

 

You HAVE to use the pomona clip 100% the copper contacts make flashing much easier, no interface 100% contact.

I use the skypro programmer, a bit better than tl886a and always flashes perfectly!

 

Bios is unlocked on F5 Coffe Lake ???

 

pomona clip is the blue one, you see the difference, more precise cutouts

 

yes it is

 

Any idea where I might be able to find the CMOS battery extension cord would be appreciated

Nevermind, I have finally found the link / description: *** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***
The extension cord for the BIOS (or rather CMOS) battery is apparently best found when looking for the connectors.
In this case, the connectors are: Micro JST PH 1.25 2 PIN
And you would like to get either a 2 pin cable with a male connector / plug on one end and a female connector / socket or rather just the male connector / plug to an open end and the female connector / socket to an open end, which means that you have to assemble both pieces yourself.

 

Override voltage at 0?
Yeah I've done that before. 0 volts to the CPU is an instant hard crash. I've only done that in Throttlestop however.

I know that on the GT75, GT75VR and GT73VR, the 60 second power button press will always hard reset the CMOS. This reset is done by the Embedded Controller (the EC handles all of the power systems). However I have never entered a vcore of 0 before. Also the 16L13 may not have the same battery CMOS reset method of the GT73VR/GT75VR (a user in the GS65 thread had a black screen also when setting vcore too low and was unable to recover without pulling the battery completely).

In most cases, you can try to recover by this:
1) power off the laptop and unplug the battery AND AC.
2) REMOVE ONE RAM STICK FROM THE MOTHERBOARD.
3) Plug the AC in and then press the power button down right way and do NOT release it.
The laptop should power on with the power LED and then power off after 5 seconds.
Keep the power button down for 60 seconds.

Then you MUST wait 3 minutes for the boot loops to start.
Did you wait the full 3 minutes?

After the first minute, the power light will cycle off then on by itself.

This will always work on the GT73VR and GT75VR.

If you only have one RAM stick, you may be able to do the CMOS reset with the RAM removed, then after 60 seconds of pressing, power it off, open it up, put the RAM back in, and do another 60 second CMOS reset afterwards.

 

At the moment, the three constants are:
- the laptop will show a power LED when powered on
- the fans will spin
- screen will stay black
(and considering that it does not change this behavior in any way after some time, I think it's safe to assume that it does not boot)
For some reason, the SSD (Samsung 960 EVO, NVME) does heat up considerably and the CPU does get warm to the touch.

I got as far as step 3 but the laptop did not react, even after having pressed the button for more than 10 seconds.
(Maybe I pressed too early?)
So I let go and pressed again, keeping it pressed - the laptop turned on, 5 seconds later turned off and on again, and ran indefinitely.
I stopped pressing the button after 60 seconds and let the laptop run for roughly 12 minutes.
Result: see above

I tried resetting via the reset button on the back, therefore:
- unplug internal battery
- unplug DC
- press reset button for about 60 seconds (I waited for a bit longer)
- let the laptop sit for 15 minutes
- plug in DC (but not the battery)
- power on
Result: see above

I tried resetting via long pressing the power button, therefore:
- unplug internal battery (I kept it unplugged for all the tests / steps because I really don't like the connector)
- press and hold power button for about 60 seconds (I waited for a bit longer)
- let the laptop sit for 15 minutes
Result: see above

And just because, why not, I did give this one a try as well (without internal battery).
So:
- remove DC
- remove last RAM stick
- plug in DC and press Power button (laptop turns on), holding it (laptop turns off after about 5 seconds)
- let go of power button after 60 seconds
= the laptop was still turned off (no fans, no LED)
- remove DC
- reinsert one RAM stick
- plug in DC and press Power button (laptop turns on), holding it (laptop turns off after about 5 seconds)
- let go of power button after 60 seconds
= the laptop was still turned off (no fans, no LED), waiting for 10 minutes did not change that
- pressing the power button does power it on, but the laptop itself does not react / change its behavior in any even when waiting for 10 minutes
Result: see above

 

Did you pull the CMOS battery out for 15 minutes?
Or was the problem that you couldn't get to the CMOS battery?

I guarantee you would have wasted less time if you had simply disassembled the laptop, flipped the motherboard, removed the CMOS battery, waited 15 minutes reinserted it, reassembled, repasted (unfortunately this is required) and then been back to a working computer.

 

Nope, I can't get to the CMOS battery at the moment because I wanted to avoid doing the full disassembly.

Yeah, I am sure of that :-D
However, I am currently waiting for the battery extension cords and for my thermal paste to arrive.
So I decided to just set up an alarm clock and have the laptop sit by my side while I use my second pc (not really gaming specs, but well enough for browsing ).
If one solution would have worked: great, saved a disassembly
If it does not work: I am not much worse off than in the beginning.

 

Have you access to another Cpu model who is compatible with your laptop's firmware? A swap mean you should be able to post again.

 

Unfortunately not - but this procedure would also require a disassembly and repaste, for which I am currently lacking the thermal paste.
But I guess I have to go the way of a full disassembly and CMOS reset - I am basically just waiting for the thermal paste and the extension cord to arrive.

!UPDATE:
After disconnecting the CMOS battery the laptop is fine again
So please keep in mind that changing any CPU related BIOS settings (e.g. undervolting) might leave your laptop soft-bricked and the only remedy is to actually dig all the way through the device to disconnect the CMOS battery to reset those settings!
Reset via holding the power button or pressing the reset button (on the bottom) does not work - neither does the auto recovery that will automatically reset minor faults.

 

Been there and done that. @Mr. Fox Videos are really helpful.

 

Making the CMOS battery hard to get at on any computer is a serious design flaw. I'd say it goes as far as being stupid if not even malicious. The first system made this way that ticked me off really bad was the Alienware 17 (Ranger). I had to use a Dremmel tool and carve away a small and inconsequential part of the chassis/frame under the bottom cover to facilitate easy access to the CMOS battery without having to take out the motherboard every time I needed to clear NVRAM. (It was socket mounted, so no way to use an extension cord like the 16L13.) When I asked one of the engineers why they did something so dumb, the response was " we don't want customers to have the ability to clear NVRAM" which just goes to show what blithering idiots the laptop manufacturers have become.

 

Packages arrived at home, my brother sent me a few photos of the new equipment. Still around 8 days for me to finish work then I’m going to be back home & start to work on the new stuff. I hope that new heatsink actually works with the GTX 1080.

As for 8700K, the Bios provided are in Chinese Mandarin....asked @DaMafiaGamer and @dsanke to help get it in English if possible.

Water cooled EVOC/TF5 with 8700K.....just mouth watering!!!

 

Awesome stuff. Hopefully those heat sinks will work better than the stock ones do, even just using air without water. The stock heat sinks were not really strong enough for effective air cooling.

 

It's a crazy project man! I hope it goes well, and looking forward to seeing what happens!

 

On their sales page they showed benchmarks that it hold better than stock heatsink.

The biggest advantage is to see the water cooling loop in action. Soon!

 

Considering that the CMOS extension pretty much solves the NVRAM reset issue, I decided to give RAM overclocking a try.

My laptop will automatically discard faulty RAM settings (well, let's not change the voltage - that bad setting might be rather permanent)
I have got two sticks of G.Skill RipJaws 16GB specified to be 2400MHz at CL16 and messed around a bit with them:
2660@CL16 resets
2400@CL14 is fine
2400@CL13 is fine
2400@CL12 resets
4000@CL16 resets (as a test for really bad settings)

With "resets" I mean this:
After saving the BIOS settings, my device will try to start and fail, i.e. no screen.
It will keep running for about a minute and then resets (turns off power LED and back on)
After the reset, the RAM settings will have reverted to the standard (not custom) settings and several CPU related values are restored as well (it seems to use a previously known good setting for some of the CPU values, because it sets the multipliers to the CPU's defaults (42-40-40-40 for my 6700K), but does set the Uncore Max to 39 (default is 40, I had it at 39 for some tests).
To conclude: it seems my laptop will get stuck when the CPU's values (e.g. voltage) are set badly, but bad RAM settings will automatically be discarded

Have you managed to get the RAM settings stuck in a way that can only be solved via a NVRAM reset?

 

there is someone datasheet for a 16L11

 

Yes, stuck more times than I can even remember. After the first time of having to pull the motherboard to access the CMOS battery, finding a permanent solution (the CMOS battery extension cable) was imperative for the 16L13 to be taken seriously and viewed as an acceptable product. Probably got stuck by using far more aggressive memory overclock settings that cannot be recovered successfully by the laptop on its own. The inability for a laptop to reset itself without clearing NVRAM is a very common issue for this and most other laptops. The blatant stupidity of making the CMOS battery hard to access supports the inability to change memory settings with the stock BIOS.

It seems that you are primarily tinkering with tighter timings. Try overclocking the RAM to 3000 or 3200 and see if it can recover. Unless there is something unique about yours, it probably won't and, like everyone else has, you will have to clear NVRAM unless you get lucky on choosing bootable settings on the first attempt.

Using four sticks may also make it more difficult for the system to reset itself. I have also found that memory timings that will work with two sticks are sometimes are not bootable with four sticks.

 

Just for the sake of preventing some poor soul from following my ill advise in case I am wrong, I actually tried this.
But why stop at 3000MHz if you want it to not work?
I set the custom settings to 133 and 15 - which results in 15*133*2 = 3.990 MHz
Basically, I overclocked my RAM to 4.000 MHz @ CL16.
And yes, of course it does not work / boot :-D
However, after just letting it sit there for about one minute, it did reset itself and discarded those values.
So even going nuts on the clock speed of the memory, the laptop will register this as bad and discard it.

I have no idea what kind of mechanism actually saves me when setting those wrong timings, but I am running stock settings in BIOS besides these values:
- Overclocking is enabled
- setting RAM to custom settings (obviously)
- enabling package C-state Demotion and Un-Demotion
- setting my CPU's multipliers to 42 (Uncore max is set at 40, voltage is adaptive and the offset is 0 ;-) )
- Software Guard Extensions (SGX) are disabled
- FCLK frequency for early power on is 1 GHz
- Voltage Optimization is off
- AC / DC Loadline is set to 2

 

Question, while we're at it.
Set your CPU to 45x multiplier at 1.30v. static voltage, not override volitage. Just to make sure it will boot to Bios.
Then press the power button down for 60 seconds
Best to power off the laptop first, power it on by holding the power button down and not releasing it for 65 seconds (so it powers off by itself).
Then wait the 3 minutes.

Can you tell me what happens to the CPU multiplier and voltage?
Does it change to 39 (or whatever your defaults are) and adaptive, and the voltage reads as "0" for override?

 

Why the 45x and 1.3V ?

I have had some bad luck with my 6700K and am only able to undervolt to 1.2V @ stock.
My 4.3 GHz are stable at about 1.25V, so I am not quite sure whether 4.5 @ 1.3V would be stable.
(It seems that while RAM settings can be as bad as they come, besides frying the RAM via bad voltage settings, the laptop will not recover on its own if CPU can't work with the applied settings.)

So the question remains: what are we testing / looking for?

 

Ok, 42 and 1.3v
I Just want to see if the CPU voltage 'reverts' after a "power button long press" attempt to clear the CMOS.

 

My laptop won't do anything when I do the "power button long press".

I tried:
- laptop is turned off, DC (battery) plugged in, AC plugged in
- press power button and let go of it
- wait for 3 seconds (so it starts)
- press and hold power button for 60+ seconds (I waited for around 70 seconds, at this point it had turned off)
- wait for 3 minutes (I waited for 5 minutes, nothing happened - turning the laptop on showed me the normal values, i.e. no reset)

Then I tried:
- laptop is turned off, DC (battery) plugged in, AC plugged in
- press power button and hold power button for 60+ seconds (I waited for around 70 seconds again, at this point it had turned off)
- wait for 3 minutes (I waited for 5 minutes, and nothing happened - turning the laptop on showed me the normal values, i.e. no reset)

This seems to conclude that my laptop won't reset when doing this method.
(Which would explain why my laptop could not be revived via this method: my previous attempt at doing this reset)
Has it been confirmed that this works on the MSI 16L1? (BIOS is E16L1IE9.30C and EC is 16L1ED61.113)

 

I see. Thank you for testing this.
The GT73VR and GT75VR reset everything after doing this (60 second black screen, then power light turns off and on, then four boot loops of MSI logos.
The only thing that doesn't seem to be reverted is "VR Config Enable" which remains enabled.

I haven't tried setting a vcore of "0". Not interested in disassembling the laptop

 

Has anyone tried using a 15mm thick hard drive in one of these? I'm pretty sure it won't fit but want to be absolutely certain.

 

Hey, it's a great exercise in dexterity and a decent way to spend 2 hours...
But I concur and would like to avoid similar situations in the future.

 

Yes, I tried it and it would not fit. It was too thick to fit at the front of the chassis where the HDD sort of tucks underneath the lip. Even if you shaved away part of the plastic it would stick up enough to interfere with the installation of the lower cover. I think a 12mm HDD might fit, but you need about 2 or 3mm more space than what is available.

 

Hard to say. I never ran the CPU stock, so that could have something to do with it. It could also be a newer BIOS version that adds that resetting feature. My desktop has that and I think all computers should. But, neither the 16L13 nor any of my Clevos or Alienwares ever had that self-recovery ability and resetting NVRAM was always required with unbootable memory settings.

 

The F5 does indeed have a resetting feature now with unbootable memory settings. It will boot, sit for about 30 seconds on a black screen and then reboot with default timings and speeds. It has saved me a few times. Luckily I have your cable mod though for the CMOS battery.

 

Hey I see you are with 8700K, how are the temps and what clocks are you running?

 

Now I’m trying to put together the water loop system with the new heatsink. Missing some hose connector from supplied water hoses to the new pump box, once I figure out that I will run a loop test to check for any leaks.

 

Regarding this information, how did you get an i7-8700k in your f5? I contacted HIDEvolution and they provided me with the following information: "Unfortunately the Z170 chipset that this laptop has doesn't support the i7-8700K. It only supports the i7-6700K and the i7-7700K. There is also no updated motherboard for this model available."

Does your laptop not have a z170 chipset or did it have an updated motherboard for it? Mine is the MSI variant and not the Eurocom Tornado, maybe that is the difference?