*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Hummm, as far as I can tell...The W1zzard (sp tool) started around November 2006 while Vitality (Thiaphoonburner 2.0) started around April 2006. IIRC's

Edit because dates were wrong.

 

Oh ****, no, I'm referring to a tool we use back in like 1995 to like 2004-ish

 

So for 3DM11 always use W7?

 

I'm sorry. that should be 2006 not 2016.
No one was flashing any ram in 1995 on a computer worth 3000.x386/x486

Yes

 

Windows 10 is not stable for me.

 

I don't think I've seen much from @Mr. Fox on the forums today. I hope that means he *is* too busy to post.

 

Temps too high, but many have already said that the 7700K needs delidding as Intel did an even worse job on the IHS paste. Reports of 20c improvements suggest that delidding is more or less required this time around, unless you get lucky.

The GT73VR has a laptop CPU without an IHS so it doesn't have that same limitation, but the 7700K in the desktop CPU laptop will have more power when tamed

Rockit Cool - Home of the Rockit 88 delidding tool
http://rockitcool.myshopify.com/

 

Been catching up in this thread, but I guess I'll ask, clock for clock, what runs cooler? If I want a CPU @4.5 GHz, should I get a 6700K or 7700K?

 

it's sort of insane how EVERY SINGLE ONE I've seen, needed delidding. I haven;t seen one yet, that did not lower 20C or more.

 

@woodzstack I cannot ignore this part quoted.

I do not believe any of the other companies you mention offer Silicon Lottery CPUs, but HIDevolution.com does, and we have the SL invoices for years to prove it. Also, if you were to really contact SL, and they would give you confidential information about their customers, they would confirm that HIDevolution has been buying their delidded CPUs for years.

I expect to see your reply with a retraction of this totally false claim, and a sincere apology.

So, @woodzstack are you in the computer business, or a hobbyist? You seem to claim in various posts that you are one, and then the other. Which is it?

@Charles P. Jefferies @Mr. Fox @hmscott @Rage Set @ Johnksss@iBUYPOWER @Mobius 1 @Phoenix @bloodhawk @Papusan @Galm @win32asmguy

 

hi @Diversion , can u plz pm me sound blaster 3 and realtek audio drivers? i just receive the laptop but have no way to check the disk.

 

I don't think they were saying that the motherboards were the bottleneck, they were referring to the CPUs - if anything I would expect desktop motherboards to be more robust at OC'ing a CPU than a laptop motherboard anyway. If everyone can reach a rock stable 5.0Ghz with their 7700K's in the Tornado then I'll be impressed/surprised!

 

"What's Hot Overclocking Beast: The most impressive part of the 7700K is its ability to overclock to 5GHz, and display stable results. I have many 7700K samples on hand, and the worst one does 4.9GHz stable, while the majority of my samples will pass 5GHz stable. Others have seen the same results; a roughly 200-300MHz higher stable overclock over the 6700K. Extreme overclocking results also show some impressive results, with the CPU already breaking records and already over 7GHz under liquid nitrogen. In comparison, many of the previous generations of Core processors weren't able to hit 7Ghz until after launch"

Read more: http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7995/intel-kaby-lake-7700k-cpu-review/index12.html Ps. The site is a power hog

Physics Score around 8930 in 3DM11 is still all too low with Windoze X Fully Throttle *gaming* as Mr. Azor + DEll's known slogan The processor throttling in the bench!!

Edit: See also http://www.notebookcheck.net/Eurocom-Tornado-F5-Notebook-Review.189496.0.html

http://www.eurocom.com/ec/benchmark(169)ec

 

The response was awhile ago and was my interpretations of a general statement in a reply. No need to be all offensive. If you are buying your CPU's 2nd hand from them, that's your business. I personally think you could have offered retail packages and delid them yourself .

So if your admitting you guys sell overpriced silicon lottery chips, which, are not the best, and far from it, I also wonder what do you do with all the CPU's that come in the laptops originally. Does MSI work differently then the Clevo distributors, and you don;t get the laptops with full config's or don;t buy Tray's from INTEL distributor's and miss out on all that INTEL reward stuff???

Look, I honestly thought it was more credible that you guys know better then to buy lottery chips and sell those chances to your customers, it was nothing personal. It's just not economic, and it's pretty easy to figure out a business's plan : MAKE MONEY.

So, that being said, why would you waste all that time buying other peoples used chips, and paying more for them, when a small fraction of the cost saved more then makes up for the time invested to do it yourself ?

Anyways, I guess I shouldn't have repeated what was said, especially paraphrasing, without any legitimate quote being shown, and if it offended you, that's a small concern, but you shouldn't have been so offended, the nature of the statement was meant to imply you were smarter as a company then to pay more for other peoples used chips just because they are delid,
when as a business, you can supply that yourself, with higher quality (If that is what your after, I assume that and money, as any business, no discredit there). I assumed much, and for that I am sorry, and if you were hurt, if your feelings are offended, I am sorry, I'm of the mindset people here speak thier minds and share information freely, maybe I was too liberal.
You should hear what we all have said about DELL.

Also, don't PM all the mods, that's just annoying to them. You could have sent a single message to the appropriate mod, and cried to them about me, or messaged me and talked to me directly. Also do not appreciate being bullied like this with such an attempt. Just take it to a convo if it's personal, please.

so in all honesty I really didn't think what I wrote at the time, was an issue.. I see it though now, and sure, it makes some sense in your context, but it still makes no sense to me as a business deal.

let me give an example.

once I saw a 6700K marked up like 100$ + on silicon lottery ( Now before the owner of Silicon lottery comes to this thread, and PM's all the mods - I'm not saying what you offer as a service is bad in anyway. It's just not for most of us who do this stuff ourselves..)
So if you guys but that CPU, then sell it to the customer, say maybe your model of profit is hypothetically 4%.. that extra 4% is most likely ontop of that 100$ extra you had to pay as well, and those extra costs incurred are forwarded to the customer.

Now, your prices, being HID evolution are very decent if I recall, correct me if I am wrong, I'm not entirely sure. So, it is a likely conclusion, that you mitigate extra costs as much as possible, not only to have more profits and be within the same ballpark as other sellers..pricing is a competitive thing.

I know it would be silly to buy a single thermal paste at a time, if I was in the mindset to sell thermal paste, so instead, we call up companies like 3M or whatever vendors distributors we have and ask them thier MOQ and buy in bulk, saving shipping and getting a discount.

Same, applies with hardware, but they usually want an extensive history for being a partner, or contract between insurances to cover monthly expenses and invoicing and to create a PO between the two parties, or like Clevo does, order 300 laptops assorted at a time, in advance with a promise of 3 months at a time... for you guys, I assume that is where you are at, thats' really only like a few laptops a day, and the discounts are well worth it.

again, I assume. I could be wrong. I just know, I wouldn't waste money on a service from another business if I could offer it myself, for a fraction of the cost.

This is why, anyone saying otherwise, I feel is a hypocrite, but that is MY personal feelings - each person to thier own ultimately, who am I to criticise your practises. Not actually saying anyone is anything, just how I feel, please do not feel offended.

Now, for the record, I sell some stuff, here and there, more like a third party service, really just started because for soo long, as you know, I just helped people buy stuff, and as a team lead for compucom with the various contracts I had over the years leading a team here in Canada, I was placing orders for computers and going on site to install them, and even maintain them and thier networks, and even leading teams of people to do desktops and laptops too, one thing lead to another, and after so many years of doing this, people just keep coming to me. I used to sell your stuff, but we had a falling out, so now I mainly sell other people's stuff, or have for the last few years. I would love to have some contacts to purchase things off of for MSI, this is my first real MSI experience. (as I stated before )

I would LOVE to be an official or real seller/retailer, or whatever the first step would be called. But atlas, it's just a hobby, I make enough to usually not piss myself off helping someone, thats my rule of thumb. If I had companies giving me discounts, or wanting to be my provider or distributor, then i guess I COULD potentially be a company oneday, but not yet. Maybe you can help? How did you guys become a who you are ?
If anyone is interested or knows whats what or has the mindset, who knows, I would be willing to attempt or try my luck at this, but - officially, I am not a reseller, because I do not get any reseller benifits. Like discounts, or special privilages. I sometimes sell stuff from another company, and come out even. I do this because I care to do it, and helping other people brings joy to me. On occasion, when there is volume, or chance of failure and risk, I mitigate that as best I can by charging for my service as a friend or third party. Theres many people here like this, I do not want to name them, since that would be rude, but you named a few yourself.

I thought about throwing up a website and going through the official route of becoming a reseller as it is for other types of hardware, you have a site, you have contacts you prove you have business with records for a few years etc... So even if i wanted to, I couldn't be that, not yet, maybe in 2-3 years.

My activity on this forum mainly started because a computer company pissed me off, one that I used to do business with but don't any longer, they sold out and stopped being what was that made them great. Thus, being here - for me, and I'm sure many others too, is from an emotional attachment to thier computer hardware. Can you not relate ?

I know a ton of business, small start ups, but none of them share how they started, but I assume I couldn't do this just by myself, so until I find people wishing to start up a company with me, I doubt I will be like you guys and be a full company or reseller or whatever I would be called.
The reason i'm able to be on the forums all the time, generally, is because I work from home, T3 tech support / DRP still. So unless there is a disaster that needs me, I remotely manage a few networks and pay the bills.

Anyways it's really late at night and my brain is dead....




TL/DR.

Sorry, sincerely. I quoted something that might be outdated, and was a personal message, and generalising.
No need to be hurt about it. Don't bother mods. PM if you have an issue.
Silicon lottery is great, but it's not where people on this forum go, because we're die-hards (generalising).
As THIS sort of business, you would delid them yourself. This would increase profits, no two ways around it.
HIDevolution disagree's and says otherwise. My PERSONAL belief " was" different, but what do I know about economics.

 

Please can anyone help me and clarify why my my model with the GTX 1080, even gets lower results than the GTX 1070?

Time Spy : http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/17577068
3DMark11 : http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11930023

I´m beginning to regret

 

I believe if you crosscheck the cpu serial number with SL they can also confirm it?





Cost wise, they are more expensive if you really do the math, but I'd honestly pay a bit more to get my CPU delidded / tested / undervolted from the vendor directly so it saves me a bit of time and be able to use the system out of the box. It isn't much money if you consider the system total cost.

The one really at fault here is Intel and their corner cut production methods. I've mostly lost faith in them since BGA gimping, not innovating in IPC, and forcing cpu/mb change every generation (think Apple and their "innovations" every new product refresh).

There are still other resellers that just sell the 16L13 "as is" if you do want to go that route. So the freedom of choice is there.

Anyways, I wouldn't doubt HIDevo is offering genuine SL cpu.

 

Is anyone getting this in any games they play after a CTD ?
I would like to know, because either the current NVidia drivers are horribad and causing issues, or there is a pattern from a few people I've seen with these laptops.
When I've tested them myself, I was always fine, and unable to reproduce. For instance, the videocard for the person who is getting this error, is fine. Tested it for like 12 hours very stable, I turned the fans off even let it do DX9,10,11,12 tried the usual suspect games that have crashes, like BF1, The Witcher 3, Civ6, Rise of The Tombraider, XCOM2 , the division, BattleFront etc..

I just want to know , or get to the bottom of what causes this specifically with the stock 7700K/1070 setups.

Run the old "Firestrike" 3DMARK test and I could tell you... I am not very familiar with those specific test numbers for that specific test.
Maybe someone else knows better ?

But are you chasing numbers or are you having some troubles in some games or something ?
I ask because few people have driver, or what seems to be driver issues currently, and i thought it would have passed after 1-2 weeks but it hasn't so i am interested in known too.

 

HID offer both

• HIDevolution Delidded - Unlocked, Under Volted and Overclocked 7th Generation Intel Core i7-7700K Quad Core Processor, 4.2 GHz (HIDevolution Overclocked to 4.7GHz) - GUARANTEED Performance (Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra includ +$120.00
• Silicon Lottery Binned, Delidded and Tested, Factory Overclocked 7th Generation Intel Core i7-7700K Quad Core Processor, 4.2 GHz (HIDevolution Overclocked to 4.8GHz, rated to 5.1GHz) - GUARANTEED Performance (Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra included) +$382.00

Please put up HWiNFO64 v5.42 in the bacground when running tests. Monitor temp and clock behaviour afterwards!! Use high performance in Win power plan. Not balanced or own home made power settings.

 

****, I have access to tons of 7700K's (Too bad I run X99 for mydesktop, right ?)
I should quit my dayjob and start offering this as a legitimate service, had no idea people could charge that much!

So, these are from Silicon Lottery website, like specifically ?
(well guess I know for the future.)

TBH, I feel getting a CPU like that right now, for the F5 at it's current state would not be a great idea. Though, I suspect in the long run these issues will go away, and we can unlock it's true potential.

 

From http://www.hidevolution.com/evoc-p870dm3-dual-gtx-1080.html They offer both Sl and retail chips delidded!! With fully warranty as the machine.

 

When you come on a public forum, and say HIDevolution.com is "...blowing smoke up your arse and lying." you should expect a public response. When you attempt to damage a company's reputation, in public, with false information, don't expect or suggest that that it should be handled in private. Nor should you suggest that reporting it to the Mods is improper, or annoying to them. You put false and defamatory information out on a public forum, you can count on us defending, in public, with the truth.

Your assumption that people on this forum do not buy Silicon Lottery CPUs is also not true. Many have, and for good reason.

As for whether you are a dealer, or would like to be, I quote your statement in your Profile "So, I'm going to be throwing up a website to help people with purchasing laptops and upgrades, with my own forums too."

There are many other things in your post quoted above that are not correct...like delidding an MSI BGA CPU...and the fact that they are soldered on the motherboard and are not socketed like the P8 and P7 series Clevo based laptops that come with no CPU at all...but far too many others to bother correcting. Frankly, most of what you say speaks for itself...and the reader can judge its credibility.

I do appreciate your apology, but suggest that while you are certainly entitled to your opinion, you should refrain from stating your opinion as fact, and be careful of trashing others in an effort to make yourself feel good.
.

 

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/17577439

HWinfo

http://imgur.com/a/VLYUm



With gsync ON , results are same
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/17577542

 

I don't know your bios. But have you undervolted? If so, go back a notch. Max your power settings if you can in bios or use TS/XTU. Run 3DM11 and 3DM Firestrike with Hwinfo in the background as before. Setup Hwinfo like the pict.

Spoiler: Hwinfo setup

 

Results without undervolt and Coolerboost On.

http://imgur.com/a/ENEBu

 

And your CPU is delidded? If not, consider it. What with your thermal paste? @Rage Set or other should maybe seen your bios settings. I think you will find TS settings you can use in the thread. What undervolt did you put in first test?

 

Did you also disable V-sync in the Nvidia Control Panel, 3D Global Settings panel?

 

CPU Not delided
The thermal paste for CPU is CLU aplied by @Eurocom Support

 

The last 3DM11 graphics score is within normal. The problem is the physics.

Most likely bad fit from heatsink. You need a new heatsink, fix the one you have with some work or change from CLU to a standard good thermal paste.
Liquid metal isn't a good choice if your heatsink isn't in good shape. And I would of course dellided the processor!!

 

Yes , V-Sync off

 

Did you reboot after making those changes before making your test runs?

Never mind

 

No results , very low physics score.

If i repaste CPU with Grizzly Kryonaut for example ?

 

Do you have the correct Windows power plan selected?

Use the High Performance Plan, and go into Advanced Settings and make sure your CPU Min / Max settings are 100% / 100%.

You shouldnt have such a problem with this laptop that you require re-pasting.

I would try ICD first, as it fills in uneven fitments - Kryonaut may too, either one I guess. I wouldn't go for Liquid Metal until you get to know the fitment of your heatplate / IHS.

There have been reports of bad paste in 7700K's, so that's the first improvement I would try - use Liquid Metal under the delidded can between the CPU and the IHS - repaste using ICD or Kryonaut then too.

 

14K with stock 7700K in 3DM11 physics? Are you kidding? Even with Windoze 7 and 4.8GHZ IS THIS A CHALLENGE

 

Yeah, you missed my edit, I caught it wasn't FS and fixed the post.

 

Dang. I'm faster with my English today An improvement

 

That's interesting, perhaps HardOCP had bad luck with their samples. What is true though is that not all 7700K's will be able to hit 5Ghz, but given the article you linked there seems to be a good chance of hitting 5Ghz with any given sample. Will be interesting to see how far folks here can go with the 7700K on their Tornados - although I'm interested in 100% rock stable overclocks, not short benchmark stable runs.

 

I agree. That is why I am working on the minute details on 5.0 before I make a push for a stable 5.1Ghz in this machine. 5.1 is very possible in the Tornado (I have already completed a few benchmarks on 5.1) but my goal is 5.2 in this machine.

 

if i were in the market for a new laptop right now, this would be the one i would be opting for total sucker for 15 inchers but as @Prema already said, I wonder WHY no one has tried to slap a 1080 into a P750DM2 yet?! that was my first thought when the pascal clevo machines were released! and dont start with thermals and power, theres always a way, especially since both the physical form factor and the external power cord are both given in the P750DM2

 

Can you tell me what is your config un XTU ? Undervolt , multipliers etc?
I have the last BIOS ( .309 )
Thank u @Rage Set

 

So, still very unstable GPU after switching to wins 8.1 pro with CTD.

@woodzstack

 

Firstly, it's Silicon Lottery not Valley

No they are not blowing smoke up no one's ****, you are.

I ordered a 6700K Silicon Lottery from HIDevolution when I had a Eurocom Sky X9 that I bought through them by the way and I still have that CPU in my current P870DM3, it is by far the best CPU I have ever owned, overclocks to 4.8 GHz easily and 4.6 GHz 24/7 at stock voltage with a max temp of 85C during stress tests. My previous two 6700Ks were an absolute joke they couldn't even run on stock clocks, yes I know, I am unlucky but this my friend IS a real Silicon Lottery CPU. I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't see the value in getting a preselected/binned chip to remove all the trial, repasting, only to discover that they got a turd of a CPU

You say last you checked, Silicon Lottery doesn't sell to resellers? really? who are you to check and who did you check with? I'm sure Silicon Lottery won't give out their customer database to some random d00d who asks who do they sell to

I know people who got lucky with their CPUs may not see the value of a Silicon Lottery Binned CPU, it's not just delidded, it's pre-selected and tested to overclock higher which means, it will generate less heat at a given voltage vs the same voltage on an inferior chip

See my previous experience with my 2 6700Ks:

Spoiler: My 6700K Experience

First system I had was a barebone Clevo P870DM-G with a 6700K that couldn't even run stable at 4.2 GHz x4 (on all cores that is). Next system which was a Eurocom Sky X9 also had a 6700K, this time a bit better, it was able to do 4.3 GHz stable.

I have seen many users here complain about high temps even at stock speeds. The 6700K is a hit or miss, 50-50 chance to get a good one. Even if you don't want to overclock, spending a bit more to get a Silicon Lottery one ensures your CPU will run cooler overclocked or not. Giving you better thermals and longevity since the CPU won't be running hot constantly.
This Silicon Lottery CPU I got (rated to run @4.8GHz in a desktop) can run @ 4.7 GHz not very stable pr 4.6 GHz stable all day long with max temps of 85C no matter what I throw at it.

To many, including me, I don't mind paying not only a $100 USD more for a golden sample CPU, I'd pay double the price, just give me the piece of mind. I am an international customer for example and if I get a not so great CPU, me returning the laptop and/or the CPU is a big hassle so yes, I don't mind paying extra knowing I will get a great chip.

I am not defending anyone here or trying to attack you personally, but if I read something that is very wrong or someone defaming a company that I have dealt with and I know are a 100% genuine, I WILL intervene

 

So still having witcher 3 CTD issues and BF1 still crashes right away with that DXGL device removed error. Anyone have thoughts on this?

 

Check your PM.

 

did you install the new driver which was released today?

nVidia Geforce Drivers 378.49

 

Testing now.

 

Can you tell me your values in XTU please?

 

I dont want to jinx it or anything, but it seems like this driver has reduced the frequency of crashes. I only got one crash in BF1 and Wargame red dragon autosetting actually goes through now.

Further testing is needed...

 

be smart....be like Phoenix

also, if you didn't, try this:

For a bug free installation, please download Display Driver Uninstaller, run it to extract it to a folder, then run the Display Driver Uninstaller.exe by right clicking on it and choosing, Run As Administrator, then choose to run it in Safe Mode. Make sure to remove any Windows Password if you have one otherwise you will be locked in safe mode as the password won't work for some reason.

After the reboot, install the new driver, then select CUSTOM, now, uncheck GeForce Experience as the version included in the driver is older than the current latest one.

Also uncheck 3D Vision Driver if you do not have a 3D Screen as it often causes video lag when you first launch any video in your favorite media player.

 

anyone here ordered this yet? interested to see the review

 

Yeah I always use it.

I dont use GE nor 3d vision driver so I never install those things. Personally hates GE anyways.....