*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

So yeah, I did confirm intermittent crashing in BF1 through out the campaign with the device removed error.

 

you mean the error is still persistent with the new driver?

 

All in all, it depends on whether you can tame the temperature from higher clocks for 24/7 usage.

Please, don't go nuts and use others higher clock speeds before you have fixed your temperature issues!! You can use all others BIOS/TS/XTU settings but hold on with raising the clocks for now. Test and then raise the clocks

 

Yeah, but it happens less.

 

Whats the go to stable driver now? I want to test with an older driver.

@Phoenix @Papusan

 

man im loving this machine!, can easily do 4k 30-60+fps. almost quiet even in loads. so cool i was shock to find it wasnt even warm on the rest area after long gaming sessions. had couple of 3-4 hours sessions so far in tomb raider 2016 and battlefield 1 and im reallyimpressed.

 

last stable one I tried was 376.60 but I guess you already tried that

 

Is that the same SteelSeries keyboard as in the other MSI systems?

 

Hi, is better the Eurocom tornado with I7 7700 non K or P650HS with I7 7700HQ ?? Dont want to overclock i prefer good temps and its for gaming

Enviado desde mi SM-G930F mediante Tapatalk

 

Dump the BGA idea and go for LGA. You can clock down to BGA speed if you want really low temp!! You are screwed with the locked down BGA i7.

 

New driver of NVIDIA , are not compatible with new Tornado F5 with Kaby Lake :/

 

You could also look into a 6700, unless you need the codecs(DRM) for 4k that come with the 7700, the 6700 is still a great processor. With the F5 you can always upgrade to a 7700 later if desired and sell the old processor. If you are scared about temps @woodzstack builds tested versions and he may be able to recommend a lower temp but high performance build since he has dealt with so many.

 

Get the 7700k F5 model and underclock to BGA speed (or slightly more). The cooling on the F5 is much better anyway.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

 

@Papusan , With -0,130 mV Undervolt . and Coolerbost activated , not seems Throttling , but lowww Physics score continues , i dont know why ! :/

@Rage Set Can you do XTU benchmark and post results please ? Its only for compare my poor results with my 7700K and GTX 1080

@Papusan @Eurocom Support @EurocomTechspert

 

Please run Firestrike and post the results. Firestrike doesn't push your processor in same way as in 3DM11. Put Hwinfo and post. Test also with Cinebench R11.5 and R15.

Edit: Your low XTU bench score indicate your ram isn't in dual mode. Check it.

 

As a typical engineer (former technical support representative), after reading that nothing helps and having similar issues ... i can recommend only one thing -> Re-install Windows
I am also having the same dilemma for months now, not that i need that EXTRA performance (except for boasting with bench scores). I also have low scores in CineBench R15 ... the CPU will TDP throttle after about 10 seconds even though i have set the max limits in XTU. TrottleStop does not help either...
3dMark2011 crashes every time no matter the settings. BTW using Windows 10 and latest Bios 3.09 and second to latest NVIDIA drivers (newer "voltage unlocked" bios anyone ?
Apart from that absolutely no issues with Firestrike scores (physics score is good up to 4.6Ghz), Heaven or the games i played - Doom, NFS (the last one), Witcher, LOL, Civilization VI (actually this one crashed a couple of times, but i believe it is my fault as i let it idle on the background for hours, would switch int/ext monitors, etc.) - very demanding game both CPU and GPU ... it got my CPU thermal throttle 93c* even though i have TGC, but no delid... this was before i set some aggressive fan curves(the default one would not even bother max the fan .

 

Firestrike @Papusan

 

Yeah I don't agree with paying for Silicon Lottery in such a large way, I overtly expressed myself. It's so mind numbing a waste of money to me, personally, I erroneously just assumed everyone was on my side with it, and blatantly acted out and was almost slanderous about how I handled it, I can't touch that topic in this thread, again, I will just end up blowing it up -so moving on...
As for dealer status or what not the plan is there to do something, just a massive WIP. For starters, I'm just a single guy, all of this is being built off of pretty much my own pocket change, so in a few years, probably after Pascal has gone and whatever is next is leaving...
If I do manage to get it running and go "live" I will change my status on this forums and open up for business officially.

I would love to show you guys what I'm doing/building. I've shown a few of you guys, just to see if I could get some feedback.
I thought designing a site would be simpler then it's been.

 

All too low physics. What with the Hwinfo pic? Run Cinebench R15 and as well. You should also post pict of Cpu-z ram settings.

 

That has got to be a 1080.... yup... your maybe within 10% or so of where you should be at stock.

Who did you get the laptop from and what did they say ?

 

When it is not branded MSI, then we cannot brand the keyboard as Steelseries. Is it the same keyboard...Yes. However Keyboard Light Manager (KLM) software is used instead of the software MSI uses on their current models.

 

@Papusan
Undervolted -0,130mv , and coolerbost On.

Ok, hwinfo Pic




CPUZ RAM







Cinebench




Any idea ?

 

Awesome, and thanks. Does that mean that if I already have SteelSeries Engine installed on the machine to manage gamepad settings, I could use that instead of KLM to configure the keyboard?

This system is a really exciting option for me. I've been wrestling with the size/weight of the GT73VR Titan vs the lower performance of its smaller siblings and the poor keyboard of the Clevo. This 15L-G-1080 seems to have absolutely everything I want on it, except the retina screen resolution, but I might even be willing to live with 1080p because the price difference would more than pay for a lovely (and large) external 4K monitor for my desk.

 

when are you ordering it ?

 

Still considering whether I can deal with losing the 4K display option. TBH, I think if this thing had a 3K or 4K display, I'd be on the phone with Donald ordering it today.

 

Your culprit is ram in single channel mode!!

Edit: FYI You aren't the first man running with ram in single channel - or use only one ram stick and don't understand why your bench scores is lower than normal. Put it in your account for learning

 

How does anyone in his right mind buy a 4K screen laptop?

 

These un-branded MSI machines are pretty great. My dad's 7-8 year old one (ordered from @Donald@HIDevolution when he was with that other company that shall not be named) is still alive and kicking.

 

One could argue that I'm not in my right mind.

Seriously, though, for gaming I agree with you 100%. Even on a 60" screen (which is connected to my gaming tower rig) 1080p is plenty.

But my CAD and CAD-like applications put a ton of data on the screen in tiny, tiny fonts, and the extra clarity of text makes a difference in eyestrain. Also, for wireframe 3D rendering of extremely dense geometry, the thinner lines make the screen less visibly cluttered and improve visualization. I also spend a lot of time editing long, complex documents in Word, and the ability to render a full 2 pages side-by-side at high fidelity is very useful. Finally, for texture editing (which I do, both in GIMP and in Substance Designer), the retina resolution removes Moire-like artifacts.

4K is absolutely overkill on a laptop, but hardly anyone makes 3K panels with specs that otherwise meet my needs. Apple does, but their GPUs in the new generation are slooow, and IMO their new butterfly keyboard is hideous.

The other thing to remember is that if you have a 4K screen, you can still run an app (or even Windows itself) at 1080p. But you can't go the other way.

 

well at 4K I can't see nothing without 250% DPI scaling and I have perfect eye sight

If you can deal with the issues of DPI scaling then I understand

anyway, that's just my opinion.. obviously you have to go with what fits your needs

 

Steelseries Engine will not work on the EVOC 16L-G-1080.

 

I scale at about 150%.

I've tested all my apps on a 4K screen, and only one of my tools has DPI scaling issues. That's a legacy tool from 2005-ish, and I am able to work around (not perfectly, but acceptably) its issues by telling Windows compatibility mode to suppress high DPI scaling on that particular app.

The other side of the DPI problem is that it's likely to go away as 4K monitors become more common.

Don't get me wrong, @Phoenix, I do very much respect your opinion. I've only been on this forum a week or two, but I've already come to consider you a very reliable mentor in overclocking. Considering my degrees are in CompE and EE, and I have actually designed production circuit boards (way back when...and for industry, not PCs), I don't hand out the title of "hardware mentor" lightly.

The 1080p screen is not an absolute dealbreaker for me, just something I have to think about because I came into this purchase really wanting 3K or 4K.

What I plan to do is borrow my wife's laptop, which has 1080p on a 15.6" screen, and use it for a while in my CAD app, to see how I feel about it after some time in use. You may be absolutely right, and I simply may need some "time in the trenches" with a 1080p config to get comfortable with letting go of 4K.

 

I assume you just mean "for the keyboard", right? I can still use it for my other peripherals from SS?

 

you may have not noticed it, but check this post please and see the examples where things look blurry in Windows 10. there is a fix fortunately if you use that tool:

Windows 10 DPI Fix

The problem in Windows 10:
When you have a widescreen, with a resolution of 1920x1080 or higher or a bit lower, in Windows Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1 you would put your DPI scaling to 125% or higher to make text and images appear larger and more easy to read.
But when you put the DPI scaling to 125% in Windows 10, you see in a lot of dialogs and windows the font gets very blurry.
It does not matter if you are using the regular or custom Windows DPI scaling functions at your 'Screen properties'. Text will get blurry on 125%.
You can test if you have this bug also if you put your DPI scaling to 125% at your 'Screen properties', then reboot Windows (or sign in again when it asks you).
Then goto 'Control panel > Administrative tools > Services'.
If you have this issue also you would see the titlebar of the Services window has a font scaled good. But the services list itself is very blurry/unsharp to read.

The SIMPLE fix:
Right-click on the shortcut to your application that has blurry fonts, then select 'Properties'. Then tab 'Compatibility'. Then enable 'Disable display scaling on high DPI settings' and hit 'Apply'. then restart your application, and you see it will look good.

The DPI fix:
Windows 10 is using another scaling method for DPI as in Windows Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1.
At some point we can understand Windows why they changed the DPI scaling in Windows 10. It is probably meant to support mobile devices more easy.
But if you like to use your Desktop as a Desktop, and you demand high quality only. Then you can use this fix until Microsoft has addressed this issue.
This fix simple tells Windows 10 to use the original DPI scaling as it was in Windows Vista, 7, 8 and 8.1.

Why this is a small software program, and not some 'Registry Tweak' is because when you manually adjust the DPI settings at your 'Windows Registry'. Windows will reset your dpi settings every 2 reboots. Which means you would have to adjust the registry again (Microsoft forces you almost to use its new DPI scaling method).
You could use a batch file for it that starts when you start Windows(r) to change the registry DPI settings, but then a ugly CMD box would show if you turn on your computer.
This method we created simple works, does what you want. And will not show a ugly CMD box because its using pure API.

Side effects:
- It needs to start when Windows starts, but only for a couple milliseconds (you will not see it of course). Then it will adjust the DPI scaling to use the Windows 8 way. And then it will close itself.
- In Microsoft Edge (its new browser) some Adobe Flash objects will appear smaller, but you can simple overcome that by using Internet Explorer 11, or Chrome, or FireFox.

See before and after.

 

My XTU settings for a stable 5.0. You will need unlocked BIOS to use some of these settings.




XTU Bench

 

I still have serious instability issues on BF1 and Wargame: Red Dragon. @woodzstack

I have tested 376.33/376.60/378.49/375.95.

 

Same behavior in all games? Same with everything stock for your hardware? Tested with drivers from HID-EUROCOM intended for this model as well?

 

Not exactly, but this is tested in two different OSes. But yes, similar behaviours.

As for EUROCOM's driver, its so old that I cant even run BF1 on it.(I think).

 

You should be able to just run the latest from Nvidia with no issues. Should be able to.

Sent from a 128th Legion Stormtrooper 6P

 

Cowards.

As a side note I'm interested in what the fan noise is like in this unit. I would expect it to be loud under gaming load given the highest power draw components possible, never know though.

Sent from a 128th Legion Stormtrooper 6P

 

Looks like I am gonna go through RMA, again......

 

I wish I could see if I could reproduce your crashes but I have neither of those games. The games I have played run beautifully.

 

Yep, external Steelseries devices work fine. I tried an APEX and Sensei myself on my Tornado F5.

This model (the MSI 16L13) uses an older version of the keyboard controller (same as the MSI GT780!), which only supports 28 colors, instead of millions of colors as the Steelseries version does. It may have been compatible with Steelseries Engine 2 at some point, but I doubt there is any way to make it work with SSE3. At least the keys themselves are the same as used on the GT62VR, which have great travel and feedback. You will not make many mistakes if you do a lot of typing on this keyboard.

 

Do you have witcher 3?

 

Yes sir. I'll install it and give it a whirl.

 

Thanks for confirming.

.

Ah, thanks for that info. I am okay with limited color choices on the keyboard. It's useful to me that it is backlit, and that I have some control over how much backlighting, but I don't need precise customization.

I spent a couple of hours on the MSI keyboards last weekend and was quite happy with them. Would I prefer a Cherry MX mechanical? Yep. But the MSI keyboards have all the tactile feedback I want, and I like the key spacing.

 

Thank you bud but we are on different CPUs and GPUs, so I am not sure how much similarities we have.

 

Thing is, his card was okay, he had it sent to me and I tested it in various games, various recent drivers, and in two systems and gave it a very good thorough look. I was able to reproduce one issue in BF1 but found a setting that allowed me to progress past it, and not get it anymore.
When he sent it to me, I was convinced I was going to be able to reproduce the issues, but was not able too. So, it might be the motherboard or maybe some semi faulty MXM connector, like maybe it;s dirty IDK...

we know it doesn't seem to be the drivers, and his card is not being heated up, it's actually remaining cool. Windows seems to "EJECT" his video card. Now I seen this issue before, on a 980M but I forget why it happened, or what was ultimately the issue. I assume at this point, motherboard or software installation is bad. Maybe left over viruses or malware or something very odd with the hardware.

The hardware was tested thoroughly by me even before he received it, and I even showed him results on discord of various benches and tests and temperatures for the day etc.. and I played the witcher 3 for example, and had no issues for the hour I played it. However, he did not purchase a hard drive from me. Even if it is not software related, and it's hardware, this is why we have warranty to begin with.

 

I was having lots of issues on my laptop with Win 10 pro so I downgraded to 8.1 pro. It fixed all of the crashes. It would only crash when on playing games.

My is finally stable enough so that I can run my home business on it.

And arent you the person who Eurocom changed everything from motherboard to gpu.

Did you ever get a crash that you ran out of memory. I dont remember if the crash said video or system RAM.

 

I spent several hours tonight running my core 3D apps on my wife's machine, which has a 15.6" 1080p screen.

I expected to have difficulty reading the small fonts of Blender and the Unity editor. In fact, I had no problems at all. At my normal viewing distance, if the font is small enough to be jagged on 1080p, it is also small enough that my eyes couldn't read it anyway. Most importantly, I ran Blender for well over an hour with my normal preferences of UI font size in force, no issues. Yes, the fonts would be nicer looking on a retina screen, but the difference is at an aesthetic rather than functional readability level for me.

Same for the Unity scene editor, which like Blender is a 3D viewport app that puts a ton of data in small fonts onto the screen.

Where I did have some issues was the rendering of single-pixel lines, such as in wireframe view mode, and along diagonal surfaces in 3D viewports. There is definite jagginess to the lines in those modes. It's not enough to be a major productivity problem, but it is cosmetically annoying.

Conclusions:

1. For the menus and other UI elements in my critical 3D apps, the FHD vs UHD issue is much less than I expected it would be.
2. For the actual geometry rendering in an editor, the quality is significantly impacted, but not functionally impaired.

My bottom line is that if I can get a 3K or 4K system relatively soon, I'll wait for it. If not, I'm probably going to go ahead with one of these, because all the other specs are so good. If I move ahead, I'll likely buy a large-screen 4K monitor for my office.

Before I order, I'm going to want to have a conversation with HIDevolution about thermals, TDP throttling of the GPU, and color gamut on the panel, since nobody has reviewed their exact configuration yet. One video (whose URL I can no longer find) seemed to suggest -- but in a very vague way -- that the GPU would be TDP throttled in this chassis. But the reference was so vague that I'm not even sure that (1) they knew what they were talking about, or (2) that I actually understood them correctly. So rather than assuming, I'll seek definitive answers.

And @Phoenix, you'll be happy to know that if I do buy one of these, I'm going to pair it with an Everki backpack, although I'll get the Glide instead of the Titan because the latter is overkill for a 15" machine. You spoke well when you said a first-rate laptop deserves good travel protection. (EDIT: Probably the Atlas rather than the Glide, because I like its organizing features a little better.)