*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Let me see if I can answer all these... I will edit as I go if needed.

1: There are Xeon's in some Clevo's. We refer to them as workstations. Bit more of a premium on them, but better is relative to the purpose you need it for too, right ?
2: The F5 between the two companies, are the same I speculate they offer different services, different seller. Being they are two other resellers, I'm not at liberty to really suggest or say much more.
3: The 3200Mhz G.skill RAM doesn;t have yet as tight timings as the 2400Mhz Kingston HyperX Impact does. Also F5 doesn't yet fully (afaik) support 3,000Mhz perfectly. Without BLK or access to the timings in bios, you can only use 3,000Mhz if the first default JEDEC / spdif table in the RAM has it.
4: subjective, I personally recommend Gelid Extreme and Tuniq-Tx-4 for ease of use in spreading and low temps and being really thin and very quick cures times. All others have further immediete draw backs, which if mastered could lead to slightly better performance but you must prepare it or know what you are doing.
5: 970M and 1060N would be tied for battery life.
6: LM under the IHS for the CPU /delid. + lapping the heatsink to a shine since it comes naturally very grainy.
7: Thaiphoon burner ATM, eventually 2400Mhz @ 125 x BLK could make it 3,000Mhz
8: play and have fun if you have all software installed... right ?? I would check performance to make sure its consitant.
9: PREMA does Clevo AFAIK and SVET is a moderator on the MSI forums which does some very nice work for MSI. You would want SVET in this case, anyone correct me if I am wrong.
10: You can swap battery by removing the 6 screws to the backplate and simply unplugging it and replacing it.
11: Actually the SM961's 1TB has the highest I/O sequential speeds don;t matter as much, plus you can also RAID to bring those up.
12: I haven't seen any throttling, but it could be due to high usage and over heating. For this reason we have begun to cool them, and offer pads to bleed the temps into the chassis and else.
13: INTEL 8265 all the way. I wrote abit about this in a few other posts, it has 802.11 K/R/V which make all the difference.
14: There was a nice targus one that was the best for the longest time. I still recommend it.
15: From the website silicon lottery or ask any seller like myself to sell you one.
16: No, I use RAM drives all the time. If you have 64GB of RAM 25GB is reasonable
17: The laptop seems to ve naturally overvolated already. I would not recommend further, it has so much extra voltage it makes these 6700K/7700K perform about 25-30% faster then desktop installs already. Once the bios is good, we should have even crazies performance from these CPU's
18: Whats important to you, the KB is the same stock 15'' KB they've had for a while. It's fine, and a proven design.
\
Hope that all helps, let me know if I can help you further.

 

Hi woodzstack,

1. These are xeon e3s I think and on benchmarks they generally perform slightly worse than the 7700k so I am not sure if they will be better...
2. So which RAM is fastest from the Eurocom site? However, as you said, what are the drawbacks of the higher speed RAM not being supported?
3. For the thermal paste, I have done it many times before so which would be the best one? Also what is the best thermal pad and copper shim/ heatsink type? Also Gelid Extreme vs Tuniq-Tx-4?
4. Wouldn't the Quadro m1000m be better for battery life as it is only 45W?
5. So would the SM961 1TB be faster than the 960 pro 512/ 1TB? I won't RAID them.
6. How many years should it last?
8. What is the performance benefit of i7 7700k over 7700HQ?
9. What is the best screen I can get to replace the 1080p one that comes with the laptop? Preferably 1440p.
10. Would it be worth covering the entire of the inside of the chassis with copper tape for maximum heat dissipation or will this not work? Are there any other performance boosters?

Thank you!

 

So after a week of getting my laptop back from Eurocom and woodzstack, I haven't had any of the issues I was experiencing from before. I haven't really had the time to play with it until the past weekend and so far the laptop has held strong! No more crashes, no more screen flickering, no more gpu issues. I've tested it out with Fallout 4, BF1, and Total War Warhammer/Attila. Before, every time I played either of the Total War games it was inevitable to run into problems until now.

Shout out to Kevin @eurocomsupport for basically swapping everything out and making sure it was okay before sending it to woodzstack. Special thanks to @woodzstack as well for setting it up and making sure it was in good shape!

I do however, would like to know when @eurocomsupport will be updating the bios. When they had my laptop, they upgraded it to the most recent one (as of 2/1 I think). I'm aware with the new kaby lake cpu's, the bios isn't letting users with the 7700k overclock properly. Apparently as woodzstack pointed out to me, it's affecting my sky lake 6700k too.

 

Bottom line is, you cannot buy a more powerful laptop anywhere in the 15-inch form factor than this little guy.

I will insert my answers above, between your questions, in a different font color, but you'll have to expand the quote to read them all.

Here is my review: EUROCOM Tornado F5 Mini-MonsterBook Review Thread

I hope all of this info is helpful. I really like this machine. It's amazing and destroys all of the turdbooks that it competes with. The value it offers is superb. Cost-to-performance ratio and build quality is unmatched in this price range. It will never replace my EVOC P870DM3 Über-Beast, but it's not supposed to. It's in a totally different class and should not be compared to it.

Edit: I see @woodzstack replied. It's good to get multiple angles. Maybe @Rage Set and @Diversion and @Talon and others can add their two cents. The more the merrier... helps us do things with eyes wide open.

 

I started that with this post right here. Because everyone was calling it a 1080M. Including me, but felt it needed it's own place.
June 17th 2016
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...00m-series-gpus.763032/page-406#post-10279528
June 18th 2016
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...00m-series-gpus.763032/page-410#post-10279968

@woodzstack
May 2016
I think you mean you were calling it a 1080M in June 2016 not 1080N
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/1080-benches.792073/#post-10266332

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/alienware-forums.791437/page-9#post-10282963

Oct. 27th 2016
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-0b-alive-thread.795048/page-29#post-10373314
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/alienware-forums.791437/page-9#post-10282963

Then you started coning it on Dec. 13th 2016
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-0b-alive-thread.795048/page-74#post-10410587

But if i'm wrong, then my mistake, but as far as I can tell. I think i'm right.

 

Maybe, not sure... you dug up the history of it hahah that's hilarious !

 

Yeah, I wish there was more I could do to help you with the bios. For now, these new triple protected bioses are more difficult to master modding and updating.

 

Because it's funnier when folks over exaggerate the truth.

 

1: The Xeon's are supposed to be just that - Xeons, they will probably outlast the rest of the hardware supporting them...
2: The RAM is not specific to Eurocom, but Kingston RAM is known to be very good, a bar by which other RAM is usually measured, of course there is direct Samsung as well.
3: I have to give it to Gelid Extreme 3 out of 5 times vs Tuniq Tx-4. So very close though. The consistency of using Grizzly Kryonaught makes it harder to vote in favour of, imo.
4: Yeah, the Quadro might be the higher performing battery saver if you let all cards perform at thier max performance, however, the 1060 will still probably beat them all, simply being faster it doesn;t have to spend as much time doing a work load and thus wastes less power.
5: If your going to use a single NVMe SSD I recommend the OEM SM961's, best bang for the buck, and it's faster where the difference is seen the most. However - if your into large multitasking, with many many projects taking up disk access simultaneously, then i recommend the largest 960 Pro directly, for different reasons. But - prepare for the heat too.
6: The RAM should last indefinitely, or the life of the laptop for sure.
7: The performance of 7700K over 7700HQ - isn't the 7700HQ a BGA/soldered on CPU ? it has cache reductions or lanes removed and can not be replaced, and has less power reqs, but also is at lower frequency and can not reach the same OC. I would say the difference is 40% less performance ultimately. Thus you might as well use a CPU from 4 years ago.
8: Well for the screens, there is a 4K option, there are also 3K screens with decent color, and theres a 120Hz screen which is all the craze which looks great but is still FHD 1080p.
9: No it would noit be worth covering the backplate in copper tape. You would be increasing the capacitance of the lap top and something could much more easily go wrong. You could also be holding the heat more adjacent to the component once it heats up whereas the base material of the plate is much more of an insulator. However there is some merit to the idea and the reason for it, I am thinking about adding my thoughts to how it should be done, but have remained quiet on the topic thus far.

 

What was over exaggerated ? I didn't know better or remember better when or why other than what I wrote. I remember last year adopting what the medical company was calling it, when they started showing release of it, and using the "N" designation. That's what I remember. I remember referring to the 1070N mostly though, the threads you linked say otherwise ?
I know I started calling them by an N designation mid summer, but your threads show since May or something... and then not again in June...

edit :
okay I went and reread what you said and what I said, it is possible two or more people came to the same likely usage at roughly the same time maybe even for same reason. But if your after credit then it's all yours friend, not going to fight or argue over the name of the cards, having sold thousands of them, and having had them listed for nearly a year with an N designation, I really don't care where I took the idea from, or copied the naming from - but credit due where it is deserved.

 

@Robbo99999 @Johnksss@iBUYPOWER

Pertaining to the battle of desktop 1070 vs 1070N, I think it's clear to me:

At stock, the 1070N is within ~5% of a desktop 1070, almost margin of error stuff. Overclocked, a 1070N absolutely has the potential to surpass a desktop 1070, thanks to its extra cores. However, due to power limits, more often than not, the 1070N has its potential cut short. You can get around this by modding or benching in very cold environments, but very few people will reach this point (in other words, most people either keep it at stock, or mess around overclocking software, but don't do much else beyond that). So you are both actually right to a certain extent: Whether the 1070N beats or loses to a desktop 1070 depends on the user. @Robbo99999 was talking about results that the average user will see, @Johnksss@iBUYPOWER was talking about when the 1070N is pushed to the absolute limits.

 

Ah, don't worry about it. If you read your post from that time, it would be clear.

Edit:
@keftih That is why I took the highest user from both worlds. To give it a fair shot. Not a bunch of randoms who have no clue what is going on.

 

@Johnksss@iBUYPOWER
Let me find it in my book marks from this time last year : here : http://www.aetina.com.tw/products-detail.php?i=87

in my email from thier news date is May



Like I said, I really think it was coined by us both on these forums but I personally took it from them.
If you look at cache in google, it will show the dates for the revealing of the pascal cards in may from them.

Though not for sale or anything, so people don't go trying to contact them for GPU's it won't work, lol. They do special applications. Like for Cars or Medical or military uses and have a minimum order quantity etc.. something like that.

 

Powered by the world’s most advanced NVIDIA Pascal™ GPU architecture.
Aetina M3N1070-NN is onboard with NVIDIA GeForce® GTX 1070 mobile GPU, its core the Pascal GP104, based on the groundbreaking NVIDIA Pascal™ GPU architecture. Built with the ultra-fast 16nm FinFET high-bandwidth memory technologies to deliver more throughput, better performance and higher power efficiency than its predecessor. M3N1070-NN is optimized to tackle new possibilities in embedded applications.

But you are a good sport about it all so i'll go with both.

PS, it's not a mobile gpu.

 

If I could weigh into this, the overvolt from the F5 really pushes the CPU further at lower clocks, and helps the GU plenty as well. The CPU might be less of a bottleneck on the F5 then on a desktop, because of EXTRA power, and I assume - the videocards have more then enough power too, and can be easily clocked on the F5.

 

I know, but really I swear that's where I got the "N" designation from and decided to push it, and use it. I do know it makes sense as "notebook" too.

 

I was looking all over for what their letters stand for and did see your 1050TI in the list.

http://www.aetina.com.tw/products-list.php?t=23

 

Always important when min/maxing your setup - lap the IHS underneath, since your using LM anyways - this makes a big difference for LM.

This was a single pass, only 30 seconds of work, and look at the difference in shine, it's already a mirror!

 

Before and after on the GPU part of the heatsink.

 

I want to share a pro tip I have for saving Thermal pads, many of you buy extra pads from me, all the time, but if the pads are still capable of making contact and are simply dirty, a small trick I do to get rid of fuzz and dust, is clean a finger real good so it's squeaky, and then get some rubbing alcohol, and dip my finger in it, and swipe it across the thermal pads, this should smooth it out, rubbing easily off anything that has accumulated and then dry up without much if any residue at all.

 

I don't have one yet, but you can do what I'm going to do when I order mine (from HiDevolution most likely). Going to underclock both the CPU and GPU to keep the fans super quiet when I'm in mixed company and let it stretch it's legs when I'm by myself gaming. I use headphones, but my wife gets rightfully irritated when my fans are blasting playing a demanding game. I'm sure even underclocked, think 7700T level CPU perf and 1060-1070 level GPU perf, It'll still play games with zero issues. I'm hoping it's still be plenty of gaming oomph while giving that cooling solution nothing to do. I mean my 870M still plays games rather well and a 1060 is FAR past that performance.

If you do that when you need the battery it'll give you some extra life, but don't expect much after all it's a 1080. Just note that if you order from HiDevolution it seems the lowest you're going to go is i5 7600K + 1080. Personally l'd rather have the 8 threads of the 7700K and downclock it. More and more games are being built with best practices of utilizing multiple threads, it's only going to help in the long run to not be hamstrung by max support for 4 threads. You don't have much choice but to go Eurocom or some other vendor if you're looking to go lower wattage on the GPU.

I wouldn't even consider the Quardro line unless you're doing professional 3D work. Get a 1060, and underclock it if you need battery without the full power of the GPU.

 

Ok, I'm not sure what is going on, but someone pointed out that you changed your post back in May to change from 1080M to 1080N. I was like NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT....



And then I look at this post and it shows 5:39PM
SMH.
You made me lose money on that bet.

 

I guess I'm confused, what is so significant about the "N"? Isn't that just a letter to differentiate the GPUs since Nvidia dropped the "M" denotation? I think I'm out of the loop on an inside joke here...

 

They are having a sword fight right now....lol

 

LOL

Not anymore.

 

Ok so you see

Let's say I make a new silicon batch to produce some numbers of NVIDIA 6969 GPU


This NVIDIA 6969 GPU core will be used on several different mediums


First is to use and sell the core as a desktop chip, pretty straightforward process. I name like my original intention NVIDIA 6969. I sell it through my own overpriced "founders edition" and charge 100$ more than third party design that has better overclocking and higher power limit. This will enable me to effectively sell the card at 100$ higher because every single 3rd party manufacturer will price their better card above my reference price point as defined by the "founders edition."

Then I want to make money by selling it at a stupid high price while selling the failed silicon production batch, I cut the failed part of my NVIDIA 6969 silicon and rename the castrated productit NVIDIA 6969M. Has almost the same name but most users will regard that it's the full desktop version and blow their money on it.

Then I realized laptops aren't crap anymore and I can still rape people's wallet, I release an excess of my silicon it on the laptop and keep the name NVIDIA 6969 due to enough people realizing that they've been scammed enough with the M suffix. But to keep this from lasting too long I will drastically cut the performance by putting on a TDP and voltage limit. - However the community is having trouble to differentiate the NVIDIA 6969 desktop and laptop, so they gave it the suffix -N (NVIDIA 6969N) to denote that it is the full-performance (mostly a marketing term) "NOTEBOOK" version.



Simple?

@Phoenix @Mr. Fox @Papusan @Johnksss@iBUYPOWER @D2 Ultima

 

The Tornado F5 might not be very big, but it's 15-inches of pure and unadulterated violence
" ...the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force..."

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11982307

 

What are your speeds at prolonged 100% on the processor, say over 10min or so.

 

I don't know. Why would I want to run the CPU at 5.0GHz under 100% load for 10 minutes? I don't really need to do that.

Edit: It seems like Windows' sucky unstable drivers and flaky DDR4-3000 memory have more of a problem with it than the CPU does.

 

I was working with Svet (super nice person and talented fellow) for a couple of weeks on a Tornado F5 BIOS mod and the menus with Intel Graphics and a few other potentially harmful things needed to be removed from view and made inaccessible in the menus in his BIOS mod. I am pretty sure those have been going forward. People that have an existing version of his unlocked BIOS need to avoid making changes when they are unsure of what will happen. Making changes to integrated graphics on a system without the functionality (by design and intent... one of the reasons it is so awesome, in fact,) probably wasn't a good idea. Changing BIOS settings where functionality does not exist won't create it from nothing and, as that person discovered, the end result can end badly.

Doing firmware mods when you don't have access to the hardware can make things more difficult, since you cannot see the end result and the only thing you have to work with is feedback received from someone else.

@Prema has always been diligent about hiding the menus that will screw things up on the platform it is being used on and only leaves the useful stuff exposed. Most people don't understand that the BIOS on computers is much like an Excel spreadsheet with cells that contain data that may not be relevant or not applicable. The same basic "database" could be used on a wide variety of applications, all with differing specs and platforms. If you hide or ignore the irrelevant stuff everything will be fine. If you include the irrelevant data in your calculations, things are going to get screwed up.

 

I think we'll leave it with N for Notebooks @woodzstack @Johnksss@iBUYPOWER Less confusion for those who do not know better Maybe Fire up the discussion again when the M name being dragged up in threads

 

The whole reason it got brought up was @Phoenix specifically asked me where it came from. I told him I started it to make it easier to note between Desktop and Notebook. And then it went off in another direction.

 

I mean, what is your top speed 24/7 for prolong periods of time. I run BOINC and just wanted to know if my temps at 4.4ghz are normal for 100% 24/7 operations.

 

Delid tool has finally arrived and I can repaste with the clu now!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Interesting Delid tool. That's one of those 3D printed parts on ebay, right ?

 

Yea was about $10 cheaper than rockit and I figured I could use enough force by finessing it even though I don't have a bench vice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yeah i did, I could have told you that if I was asked. I didn't start calling 1080 1080N until like this year, I only saw 1070N and 1060N last year. LoL, what did you bet ?

 

I have never tried them, I'm too afraid one guy versus the next wouldn't be the same quality. one small mishap and maybe a broken silicon chip happens, or it gets bent who knows.
people printing parts like that on ebay, I feel are not as concerned as you are with your CPU - but like I said, i haven't tested it, so maybe I would think otherwise once I did.
Rockit kit though is fantastic and super high quality and very sturdy and rugged, and includes the kit to reattach the IHS to the CPU too, yes that's a thing - RELIDDING.

 

here is a picture of the parts used for relidding :


small dabs of superglue (like tiny dot in 2 spots) and then this vise thingy, and it sticks like it was reattached at factory.
The realignment is also perfect too, whereas many of these CPU's have the IHS off center. Don;t know why but I've noticed they're not perfectly centered but the device aligns them perfectly..

Then I usually clean up left over glue and it's good to go. For the extra 10$ it is worth it IMO.

 

Here is a technique for removing or placing these very very sticky pads.

Here is a picture of how I apply the thermal pads straight, because they are sooo sticky it's not even funny..



I added small amounts of extra pads o cover the irregularity in placement, probably makes no difference.


ton's of backup if needed ahyways..

 

here's some of the good stuff being used :

 

And, another one ready to start installation and imaging...

 

I'm sorry. I misunderstood your question. My 24/7 daily driver clock speed is 4.7GHz. That is where I have it set in the BIOS and I use it all day like that. Using the identical settings on the P870DM3 for that. Edit: Static voltage, 1150, no offset.

Interesting... never seen that type of delid tool before.

I really like the Rockit88 tool. I used it the first time on the 7700K upgrade on my P870DM3 and then on the Tornado F5 7700K. The first three delid operations I did were with a razor blade. This is faster and easier, and doesn't require nearly as much caution (or nerve).

I really don't understand why people waste their time re-gluing the IHS. That makes no sense to me at all. I've never done it and I do not plan to. All that does is make taking it off later, should I want to, more inconvenient. I fail to see any benefit to doing that, but it does seem like a popular thing to do. I don't really like the idea of using super glue even though that is how it is always demonstrated in the re-lid videos. Seems like a tiny bit of RTV silicon would be better, and not as strong.

 

I always used my fingers to pull the pads off... then again I already ripped one of them . What thickness are those green pads? I'm thinking of getting some 50 x 50 x 1.0 mm ARCTIC thermal pads.

 

I think they are 1.5mm

 

I do it, because I'm delidding other people's CPU's in thier laptops. If they go to do maintenance and slip up and pull the IHS off ot while holding the CPU they're holding the IHS and it falls apart or in two, years down the road or something, this could be an unfortunate incident, so I use some super glue, which does not really hold it as strong as before, but enough that it should not fall off by accident. Customer can still remove it easily.

 

OK, gotcha. Makes perfectly good sense on a customer's computer to protect them from any mishaps like that, should they forget it's not attached later on.

I'm still not sure why it is popular with people that do their own. Seems kind of silly to do something and then immediately undo it, even though there is no benefit to it.

 

personally when I delid my own, i keep the IHS off if I can.

 

Ooops, I said that wrong the first time and edited my post. That was incorrect. (Stock voltage +25 was for 50x4, way too high for 47x4).

 

The eurocom sky x9e3 is due to be released today!

Also a few questions..

1. So the i7 7700k will be better than the xeon e3s but they will not last as long. Am I right?
2. of the following RAM which is best/ fastest?:
- 32GB; 2x 16GB; DDR4; PC4-2400; CL17; 260-pin; Micron; 1.2V; 2 SODIMMs [add £378]
- 32GB; 2x 16GB; DDR4; PC4-2400; CL14; 260-pin SODIMM; Kingston Impact HyperX; 1.2V; 2 SODIMMs [add £378]
- 32GB; 2x 16GB; DDR4-3000; G-Skill; CL16; 260-pin; 1.2V; 2 SODIMMs [add £316]
- 32GB; 2x 16GB; DDR4-3200; G-Skill; CL16; 260-pin; 1.2V; 2 SODIMMs [add £403]
3. So the SM961 is faster than the 960 pro at 512GB?

Thank you!